Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[AJAAY]

Is the 12 Pro any better? I’m happy with the size of the Max since in retrospect I did feel like I wanted a slightly larger phone when I tried iPhone X and iPhone 11, but I’d give the Pro consideration. I feel like a broken record saying this: apparently there’s a mode that’s similar to DC dimming between 22%-50% brightness that I could only confirm is on the 6.1” Pro.

I am still concerned about the effects of using a device that causes migraines for a year or two, although I’ll probably upgrade to iPhone 13 in the fall either way.

I haven't notice any significant improvement with the 12 pro over the 12 pro max. I use auto-brightness and being that I find it hard to actually estimate the slider's position on the brightness spectrum, I've never paid attention. Anything below the halfway mark is too dim for me. But it's only day 3 of using the 12 pro, so I've got a little while to see how I adjust. I'll try to use the brightness in between that range to see if I notice any difference.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I realize I’m probably the most active participant in this thread, but I’m honestly a bit torn about whether or not to return my iPhone 12 Pro Max.

I don’t get the same debilitating migraines I got on iPhone X that made it practically unusable and would have made it impossible for me to continue using that phone. Nonetheless I do still get migraines from iPhone 12 Pro Max. I’ll give it a little more time to see if it continues improving.

If not, I’ll probably pre-order the iPhone 13 Pro Max when it’s announced and hope that it’s finally resolved on the next generation. I’d consider the new iPhone SE, but I don’t think I’ll be satisfied with not having the flagship.

I’ll give you credit, you really do love these phones. If you can “get over it”, I’ll be extremely interested in hearing about it. As of now, I can’t recall even 1 person who was able to get past the strain/headaches if they had them on day 1.

This message was sent on my cracked, 3 year old 8+ lol

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'll say this. If you're effected by the 12 Pro Max now, it'll always be like that. There is really no "getting use it". Take it from me, it's been two years of using me using the XS Max and 11 Pro Max and I get light/mild symptoms and this is still after two years. As far as long term effects, I just had an eye appointment back on the 8th and my eyes are healthy.

I just packed up the 12 Pro Max and shipping it back tomorrow, I'm currently using the 12 Pro. Still up in the air with it. Although, I'm surprisingly loving the smaller size, way easier with day to day handling of the phone, I've aways been a plus/max guy.

My question is: why do you persevere if it affects your health/body? I very much get wanting to have a great phone, and maybe the best Apple makes. But is it worth it?

 

[MICHAELSD]

My question is: why do you persevere if it affects your health/body? I very much get wanting to have a great phone, and maybe the best Apple makes. But is it worth it?

I’m honestly surprised at how many people are testing multiple iPhone 12 models to find out which one causes the least headaches. It’s more or less a waste of time and returns.

I understand where they’re coming from since I absolutely love my iPhone 12 Pro Max and don’t want to give it up. Part of me still wishes there was just a setting I could toggle or a simple workaround that would eliminate migraines/headaches.

Whenever I switch to a LCD display it makes it obvious how much the PWM implementation affects me. The migraines/tension headaches have become part of the experience of using it. It’s almost impossible for me to use iPhone 12 Pro Max and not get a tension headache. It just feels normal now, but not iPhone X debilitating.

Still, I could stare at an iPad Air or an 8+ (which I’m beyond ready to get rid of) for hours on end without even a hint of a headache or a migraine whereas it’s become part of the experience of using any OLED iPhone. I don’t totally mind it since the phone itself is significantly better than any of the LCD alternatives, but I’m concerned about any long-term health implications. It‘s a weird sensation getting used to feeling a certain way while staring at a phone.

 

[AJAAY]

My question is: why do you persevere if it affects your health/body? I very much get wanting to have a great phone, and maybe the best Apple makes. But is it worth it?

My symptoms aren't debilitating. 99% of the time it's very light/no symptoms. And every once in a while, I'll get a noticeable headache and that only happens if I'm on my device all day long consistently.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I don’t totally mind it since the phone itself is significantly better than any of the LCD alternatives, but I’m concerned about any long-term health implications. It‘s a weird sensation getting used to feeling a certain way while staring at a phone.

I doubt there are long term impacts (I’m not a dr) but I can’t imagine the daily headaches being worth it in order to look at a high resolution phone screen

 

[MICHAELSD]

I doubt there are long term impacts (I’m not a dr) but I can’t imagine the daily headaches being worth it in order to look at a high resolution phone screen

It’s not about the high resolution per se, it’s the incredibly vibrant colors and infinite contrast of the OLED display — which is why I’ve wanted one on an iPhone for so long. It was ironically my most-requested feature.

 

[AJAAY]

Unfortunately the 12 pro did not work out for me. I've had a consistent headache since using it. For my symptoms, I would put the 12 pro in 2nd behind the X. I think the problem is the 12 pro fluctuates widely with it's flickering rate, so it's not constantly flickering at the 277hz frequency. I even set the 12 pro between 22-50% brightness and it did not help. I don't think the 'dc dimming' is constant, so it's not effective for the sensitive users. The 12 pro max was much better for me symptom wise, but slightly worse than my 11 pro max. So back to my 11 pro max for now.

Surprisingly, I fell in love the the size and form factor of the 12 pro. If pwm wasn't an issue, I would have picked the 12 pro over the 12 pro max.

 

[now i see it]

Just as a data point:
An iPhone 8 has a 326ppi LCD screen with no PWM flickering and an iPhone 6 Plus has a 401ppi LCD screen with no PWM flickering.
If I use my iPhone 8 for a while it starts bugging my eyes. I can feel eyestrain and something else developing. If I switch over to the 6 Plus, right away the symptoms go away and my eyes feel fine. I definitely don't have perfect near vision and wear glasses when using an iPhone.
So eyestrain caused by staring at an iPhone screen isn't always caused by PWM flickering or FaceID beams. Other factors can mess with the eyes too.
Currently there's no new iPhone I can look at without it bugging my eyes after a while.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Unfortunately the 12 pro did not work out for me. I've had a consistent headache since using it. For my symptoms, I would put the 12 pro in 2nd behind the X. I think the problem is the 12 pro fluctuates widely with it's flickering rate, so it's not constantly flickering at the 277hz frequency. I even set the 12 pro between 22-50% brightness and it did not help. I don't think the 'dc dimming' is constant, so it's not effective for the sensitive users. The 12 pro max was much better for me symptom wise, but slightly worse than my 11 pro max. So back to my 11 pro max for now.

Surprisingly, I fell in love the the size and form factor of the 12 pro. If pwm wasn't an issue, I would have picked the 12 pro over the 12 pro max.

Thanks for the update, and sorry to hear that.

I find the size of the iPhone 12 Pro Max to be just about perfect: surprisingly I don’t find myself wanting a larger or smaller phone. I may have been persuaded to try iPhone 12 Pro and locking it into the 60Hz mode if there were reports of it helping.

This phone is fantastic otherwise so I still don’t want to return it: the display looks top-notch (too good of a pun not to use it), the cameras are incredible, and the Pacific Blue color is beautiful.

Unfortunately migraines are unavoidable for me, and I’ve tried a number of different settings and brightness levels. I was almost considering keeping it regardless but the responsible decision is to return it, even though I’d probably hold onto this phone for dear life if I could.

It’s simple really, keep iPhone 12 Pro Max = owning the best iPhone ever made and enjoying it immensely, but dealing with migraines a majority of the time. Return iPhone 12 Pro Max = going back to my iPhone 8 Plus, which I’ve all but moved on from, and having a mostly migraine-free life.

Just as a data point:
An iPhone 8 has a 326ppi LCD screen with no PWM flickering and an iPhone 6 Plus has a 401ppi LCD screen with no PWM flickering.
If I use my iPhone 8 for a while it starts bugging my eyes. I can feel eyestrain and something else developing. If I switch over to the 6 Plus, right away the symptoms go away and my eyes feel fine. I definitely don't have perfect near vision and wear glasses when using an iPhone.
So eyestrain caused by staring at an iPhone screen isn't always caused by PWM flickering or FaceID beams. Other factors can mess with the eyes too.
Currently there's no new iPhone I can look at without it bugging my eyes after a while.

I don’t consider migraines and tension headaches to be eye strain, so I suppose that symptoms vary greatly between sensitive users. Eye strain sounds much more mild and manageable in comparison.

 

[kargurin]

Unfortunately the 12 pro did not work out for me. I've had a consistent headache since using it. For my symptoms, I would put the 12 pro in 2nd behind the X. I think the problem is the 12 pro fluctuates widely with it's flickering rate, so it's not constantly flickering at the 277hz frequency. I even set the 12 pro between 22-50% brightness and it did not help. I don't think the 'dc dimming' is constant, so it's not effective for the sensitive users. The 12 pro max was much better for me symptom wise, but slightly worse than my 11 pro max. So back to my 11 pro max for now.

Surprisingly, I fell in love the the size and form factor of the 12 pro. If pwm wasn't an issue, I would have picked the 12 pro over the 12 pro max.

I had the Pro Max 12 for a week and returned it yesterday. Eye strain and headaches. Went back to my Note 10 plus and I feel fine now. Put in an order for the S21 Ultra since it's basically the same screen. That's what the demo looked like to me at the AT&T store. It's too bad because I really like the phone but the Sammy screen just looks sharper. I owned a Max 10 and had no problems. Maybe my eyes are just getting old and finniky.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I don’t really feel like I have a choice other than to return the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Even if I’m crazy enough to consider keeping it and growing accustomed to migraines while using it, that’s probably the worst decision I could make.

Still I do feel like I’m ready for an upgrade. Part of me thinks the iPhone 12 won’t cause issues, which is placebo since the aluminum design makes it feel like it would have a LCD display. I guess I’ll try to find another store demo. I did look at one the other day in Target until the rep started talking to me and I didn’t feel like getting into it about PWM, so I didn’t continue playing around with it. The display seems perfectly bright and vivid, and gave me no issues within a few seconds of use.

Truth be told I didn’t hate iPhone 11, but it still felt lacking to me. I’m not sure how much I’d enjoy taking a step back from the current generation. I’d also consider iPhone SE. I suppose iPhone XR and 11 were designed for the average consumer, not specifically as a solution for PWM-sensible users.

I’m just as confused as I was when I started shopping for a new phone (which is incredibly odd for me), and I can’t go to an Apple Store to look at demos since they understandably only offer Express Pickup.

I suppose I could limit myself to two more returns at the most, as much as I hate doing that. I’ve found I very rarely return products, so it’s frustrating having to return phones that I otherwise enjoy very much.

 

[asus389]

I’m just as confused as I was when I started shopping for a new phone (which is incredibly odd for me), and I can’t go to an Apple Store to look at demos since they understandably only offer Express Pickup.

Even though Apple stores are closed, some other retailers that sell iPhones and have them on display are open in many states. In my area Walmart, Target, and Best Buy come to mind. Also some carrier stores are open. They all have phones on display. It's up to you if you want to risk spending time in a store, but it's a thought.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Even though Apple stores are closed, some other retailers that sell iPhones and have them on display are open in many states. In my area Walmart, Target, and Best Buy come to mind. Also some carrier stores are open. They all have phones on display. It's up to you if you want to risk spending time in a store, but it's a thought.

Admittedly I did risk it and visited a Walmart and Verizon store before I made the decision to change my order from a 12 Pro to a Max.

The problem with the carrier stores is they generally have a bunch of phones with PWM on a wall next to each other, which leads to instant migraines for me.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Michael: If you know the 11 works for you, why would you even consider the new SE?

Edit now I recall asking this, and you mentioned contrast being better. I still don’t know if I could go back to a small phone, but I will be forced to try at some point it looks like. People have high hopes for the 13, but if those don’t pan out I’m screwed.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Michael: If you know the 11 works for you, why would you even consider the new SE?

Edit now I recall asking this, and you mentioned contrast being better. I still don’t know if I could go back to a small phone, but I will be forced to try at some point it looks like. People have high hopes for the 13, but if those don’t pan out I’m screwed.

SE Plus is our only real hope until micro LED I feel. But as things stand the SE Plus may never see the light of day and just enter the hall of rumours.

I can't see the 13 being any different unless Samsung has made a major change to their displays and controllers. We will know once the notebookcheck review comes in for the S21 range.

I still think OLED on a phone is a crappy experience due to the colour shift even if PWM rates increase to a usable level. But micro LED is likely a few years away yet in mobile products. Too many have been drinking the "OLED is best" coolaid as the industry has invested heavily and pushed it into every sector. Laptops with OLED will be the new must have everywhere. Sigh....

 

[kargurin]

The Galaxy phone screens don't color shift and I think they have been better than iPhone screens ever since Apple switched to OLED. And I switch platforms every year. Your rarely see discussions on Sammy Android forums about yellow screens, PWM, color shifting, or black issues. I'm typing on a Note 10+ right now and think it's outstanding.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Michael: If you know the 11 works for you, why would you even consider the new SE?

Edit now I recall asking this, and you mentioned contrast being better. I still don’t know if I could go back to a small phone, but I will be forced to try at some point it looks like. People have high hopes for the 13, but if those don’t pan out I’m screwed.

Correct on that, but I also think the 11 would feel like too much of a step back from the 12 series. My thinking with the SE is to to limit my phone usage altogether, and it’s also a perfectly nice phone.

SE Plus is our only real hope until micro LED I feel. But as things stand the SE Plus may never see the light of day and just enter the hall of rumours.

I can't see the 13 being any different unless Samsung has made a major change to their displays and controllers. We will know once the notebookcheck review comes in for the S21 range.

I still think OLED on a phone is a crappy experience due to the colour shift even if PWM rates increase to a usable level. But micro LED is likely a few years away yet in mobile products. Too many have been drinking the "OLED is best" coolaid as the industry has invested heavily and pushed it into every sector. Laptops with OLED will be the new must have everywhere. Sigh....

I’m not even sure the SE Plus makes any sense to produce with the design that recent rumors have touted: why would Apple produce a 6.1” all-screen design with no notch and TouchID in the power button assumedly with an A14 Bionic at ~ $499? iPhone 11 already exists to fill that gap.

OLED in theory could have been the perfect display technology with its infinite contrast. It would be significantly better than LCD if only it didn’t rely on PWM on mobile devices. I wouldn’t even consider any TV other than a LG OLED, which has no visible flicker, if my Pioneer Kuro died.

The Galaxy phone screens don't color shift and I think they have been better than iPhone screens ever since Apple switched to OLED. And I switch platforms every year. Your rarely see discussions on Sammy Android forums about yellow screens, PWM, color shifting, or black issues. I'm typing on a Note 10+ right now and think it's outstanding.

I am tempted to try a S21 as a test to see if Samsung is doing something differently that doesn’t cause migraines, but I’m honestly not excited about the idea of using a Galaxy phone.

I’m thinking about trying an iPhone 12 or iPhone 12 Pro just to rule out every possibility, though to be honest I think the Max is the perfect size for me and would prefer to not continue returning iPhones if only they could produce a modern flagship without display flickering.

I even disabled auto-brightness and started creating brightness shortcuts in the Shortcuts app to see if that would help. Maybe on iPhone 12 Pro creating shortcuts at specific brightness levels will help, but I’m not holding my breath. I feel like I’m trying to find a solution to an issue that I shouldn’t have to solve.

I do think the LTPO panel and a 120Hz refresh rate may mean a higher rate (potentially 480Hz instead of 240Hz) and a lower amplitude like on Apple Watch. I could have made a justification for the PWM being solved on every iPhone generation after iPhone X, and I thought for sure by the time they switched to OLED across the lineup they would have a fix or at least an option in Accessibility, but at this point it’s just speculation.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Well today’s the day I have to return my iPhone 12 Pro Max per Apple’s policy of 14 days to ship an item after initiating a return. I’m understandably bummed and already know I’m going to end up missing this phone. I suppose it’s just a phone, but it’s such a joy to use and my main metric for enjoyment after every iPhone upgrade (one of the reasons iPhone 7 with its sRGB color gamut became one of my most surprising upgrades) is the display. OLED is such a game-changer that makes games, movies, and even the UI pop. I could stare at this display for hours on end and not get bored, if only...

I do have to say that the more time I spend using the phone the more I become accustomed to it and the less my brain notices the flickering. I did just have a coffee but I haven’t had a migraine (actually I just noticed a mild migraine as I said that) while I typed the first paragraph. Although the brightness did just decrease from ~ 75% to 50%. I think when the brightness changes with auto-brightness that causes the most issues since the amplitude and potentially also the frequency changes.

If I didn’t get migraines after use honestly I’d probably just keep it and deal with it. But I know if I do I’ll be in this thread daily and counting down the days to iPhone 13.

Bottom line is I wish I could just order an iPhone 12 Pro Max and an Apple Silicone case and keep it for the next year without PWM flickering being an issue. I didn’t even order a case because I knew deep down it was more likely I’d have to return it. Part of me wants to immediately order another identical phone (despite this one being flawless, which I suppose is due to Apple’s manufacturing tolerances being higher because I’ve definitely had issues with manufacturing defects throughout the years) along with accessories after returning it, and this time trade in my 8+.

 

[kargurin]

There is just something odd about this phone and the way it displays text. To me anyway. I linked a couple of Youtube videos I made and I'll repost links here. There is a white-ish outline around text which seems more 'threadbare' compared to the Note 10+. In any case, it's bothersome. I bought a new Kindle during the short time I owned the Pro Max because I couldn't read on that phone. Now I'm back to reading on the Note 10+.

Pro Max 12

Note 10 Plus

 

[jimmy_uk]

Seriously, if your sensitive to PWM then no OLED iphone is going to work for you today. Glad there's mute options on this forum.

 

[MICHAELSD]

There is just something odd about this phone and the way it displays text. To me anyway. I linked a couple of Youtube videos I made and I'll repost links here. There is a white-ish outline around text which seems more 'threadbare' compared to the Note 10+. In any case, it's bothersome. I bought a new Kindle during the short time I owned the Pro Max because I couldn't read on that phone. Now I'm back to reading on the Note 10+.

Pro Max 12

Note 10 Plus

The Note 10 does look much better. Oddly enough I have a slo-mo video from a store demo and the standard iPhone 12 appears more similar to that.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Seriously, if your sensitive to PWM then no OLED iphone is going to work for you today. Glad there's mute options on this forum.

Hey man I was gonna return the iPhone 12 Pro Max without even trying it until you persuaded me otherwise

A little offensive if I’m being honest, but I am putting too much time and effort into these posts.

Like I said I know I’ll probably be in this thread almost daily reporting on my experience if I were to keep it because there’s simply no getting around the migraines/headaches unless I woke up one day and my brain became totally accustomed to the flicker, which has its own level of concern because it shouldn’t have to.

So I suppose I should return it and wait to pre-order iPhone 13 Pro Max, and hope for the best.

 

[now i see it]

Find a good used iPhone 8 Plus & get off the iPhone upgrade train

 

[MICHAELSD]

Find a good used iPhone 8 Plus & get off the iPhone upgrade train

I actually own a red iPhone 8 Plus, although to be honest I’d love to be able to upgrade to a modern flagship.