Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

Going from the 13 Pro, which looked buttery smooth to me with the 120hz display, back to my 7 Plus gave me a sudden stomach drop and dizziness. Everything felt slow motion for a second!

These phones are weird.

Honestly I think my eyes and brain are weird. Outside the norm for sure. And not in a good Marvel superhero way, either. If I were to say what I can see sometimes, nobody would believe me and I’d be opening myself up to a ton of ridicule on my favorite forum. (Lol no I’m not talking about seeing dead people. ) So I’ll just keep it to myself. Ironically I’m super nearsighted, so it doesn’t matter what I can see outside of known normal parameters. I can’t see enough to function without my glasses and that’s that.

 

[Mr.Simple]

Notebookcheck has released his review for the iphone 13 on the german page and it has a PWM Frequenzy of 609 Hz on brightness level 10% and below:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Smartphone - Wertiges Apple Handy mit hellerem Screen

Experten-Test des neuen iPhone 13. Die neueste Generation des Apple Smartphone ist ein Handy mit langer Laufzeit. Das Apple Gerät kann aber nicht nur lange durchhalten, sondern ist auch eines der leistungsstärksten Handys auf dem Markt. Nun gibt es auch Sensor Shift im iPhone 13.

www.notebookcheck.com

Interessting. Maybe i should try the iPhone 13 in store and see how my eyes react.

 

[JM]

Honestly I think my eyes and brain are weird. Outside the norm for sure. And not in a good Marvel superhero way, either. If I were to say what I can see sometimes, nobody would believe me and I’d be opening myself up to a ton of ridicule on my favorite forum. (Lol no I’m not talking seeing about dead people. ) So I’ll just keep it to myself. Ironically I’m super nearsighted, so it doesn’t matter what I can see outside of known normal parameters. I can’t see enough to function without my glasses and that’s that.

Okay… I’ll bite. What can you see that we can’t?? 😳 😄

I’ll get the moderators to ban anyone that ridicules you! lol (kidding I can’t do that)

 

[5105973]

Okay… I’ll bite. What can you see that we can’t?? 😳 😄

I’ll get the moderators to ban anyone that ridicules you! lol (kidding I can’t do that)

I see that my kids left cookie crumbs in the shag carpet. Anyone who can see tan colored cookie crumbs in a tan and brown shag carpet (don’t blame me, previous owners picked it) is definitely unique. 😆

 

[jm31828]

Notebookcheck has released his review for the iphone 13 on the german page and it has a PWM Frequenzy of 609 Hz on brightness level 10% and below:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Smartphone - Wertiges Apple Handy mit hellerem Screen

Experten-Test des neuen iPhone 13. Die neueste Generation des Apple Smartphone ist ein Handy mit langer Laufzeit. Das Apple Gerät kann aber nicht nur lange durchhalten, sondern ist auch eines der leistungsstärksten Handys auf dem Markt. Nun gibt es auch Sensor Shift im iPhone 13.

www.notebookcheck.com

Interessting. Maybe i should try the iPhone 13 in store and see how my eyes react.

I am reading this now- very interesting, they say the flicker is only above below 10% brightness.... but we see the flicker in slow-mo video of these displays even well above 10% brightness. I don't know enough technically about this to explain how that can be- but the PWM as it is outlined here does sound promising!

Now I wonder if the 13 Mini will be similar....

 

[MICHAELSD]

Notebookcheck has released his review for the iphone 13 on the german page and it has a PWM Frequenzy of 609 Hz on brightness level 10% and below:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Smartphone - Wertiges Apple Handy mit hellerem Screen

Experten-Test des neuen iPhone 13. Die neueste Generation des Apple Smartphone ist ein Handy mit langer Laufzeit. Das Apple Gerät kann aber nicht nur lange durchhalten, sondern ist auch eines der leistungsstärksten Handys auf dem Markt. Nun gibt es auch Sensor Shift im iPhone 13.

www.notebookcheck.com

Interessting. Maybe i should try the iPhone 13 in store and see how my eyes react.

Translated from German to English:

The display flickers at 609.8 Hz (most likely by PWM pulse width modulation) at a set brightness of 10% and below. There should be no flickering about [above] this.

The frequency of 609.8 Hz is very high and should therefore not cause any problems even for sensitive people.

Wut.

 

[JM]

Translated from German to English:

The display flickers at 609.8 Hz (most likely by PWM pulse width modulation) at a set brightness of 10% and below. There should be no flickering about [above] this.

The frequency of 609.8 Hz is very high and should therefore not cause any problems even for sensitive people.

Wut.

Yeah, wut?

that doesn’t seem right….

 

[MICHAELSD]

I had a long, extensive, MICHAELSD PWM post prepared for iPhone 13 Pro that was saved in the text box on the forum and got reset so I’ll provide an abbreviated version:

If iPhone X was a literal 10 on the scale of eye strain symptoms which is a fair rating since I had 24/7 headaches/migraines which persisted for months, then iPhone 12 Pro Max would be an 8 or 9 and iPhone 13 Pro would tentatively be a 7 on the same scale. I was considering scoring it 5 or 6 but there’s still a lot of room for improvement. I definitely still get all of the usual PWM symptoms: difficulty focusing on the display, watery eyes, pain behind the eyes, dizziness, etc. but they’re more subdued.

The biggest improvement I’ve found is that headaches/migraines after use aren’t nearly as persistent. I’d categorize this as being half as much of an issue if not even less so than iPhone X or iPhone 12 Pro Max. I’ve also been typically using my phone for ~ 2-3 hours a day as a result of iPhone SE, although I don’t think that contributes since I can finally look at a notification and get either a light migraine or if I’m lucky none at all.

Even if it is generally half as problematic overall, a phone still shouldn’t cause these symptoms.

To further quantify it, I’d consider every LCD iPhone including iPhone SE and every iPhone that came before it to firmly be a 0 on the scale of eye strain symptoms: they cause no issues whatsoever.

I’d also classify every generation of Apple Watch including the current LTPO OLED as a 0 since they’ve caused me zero issues. I can focus on that display all-day hypothetically and not get a headache or migraine. I wouldn’t attribute this specifically to the size either since I think Apple Watch still has the best PWM implementation by far of any Apple OLED display.

iPhone 13 Pro also made me appreciate iPhone SE, since as a lifestyle change it’s been a success most days. Oddly enough I wasn’t able to re-adjust to the size of iPhone 13 Pro in a two-week period after using Plus-sized iPhone’s for years. iPhone 13 Mini has piqued my interest as a potential upgrade so I may still try that during the holiday return window. Regardless iPhone SE is a surprisingly excellent alternative that gets back to the basics of being a phone.

I prefaced the previous post with a disclaimer that my enthusiasm isn’t at the same level so it probably wasn’t going to be a novel, and much like that post this post isn’t necessarily abbreviated as originally intended — which is fine, the more feedback the better.

My conclusion to that post was that there’s more to life than a new iPhone. It’s better to return it at the first sign of a tension headache or migraine than it is to deal with eye strain on a daily basis.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yeah, wut?

that doesn’t seem right….

It looks like it enters a 60Hz quasi-DC dimming mode above 10%, which still flickers and can cause issues but not with the use of PWM.

 

[AJAAY]

It looks like it enters a 60Hz quasi-DC dimming mode above 10%, which still flickers and can cause issues but not with the use of PWM.

Which is what the regular 12 pro does and caused me to almost rip my eyes out of my head. It was worse than the X.

 

[jm31828]

It looks like it enters a 60Hz quasi-DC dimming mode above 10%, which still flickers and can cause issues but not with the use of PWM.

I'm trying to make sense of the screenshots they had on the site. The top one shows very little modulation, which is a great sign- but I wonder what brightness level that was- are we to assume that is anything above 10%? And the bottom one with much more modulation is a brightness setting below 10%?

And could you expand on what you mentioned- if it doesn't use PWM, but there is still flicker above 10%- I'm a bit of a dummy with this, but what would that mean for people who are maybe just slightly or mildly sensitive? And would this overall be a good thing vs. using PWM for dimming? Just trying to wrap my brain around what this means- because as you said, certainly there is still flicker- even at 90% brightness on the 13 Mini I tested at the store, it flickered just as much as my 12 mini does when taking a slow-mo video of the display.

EDIT:
I as because I've had my 12 Mini since launch... the first couple of weeks caused me just a bit of dry, gritty eyes as I adjusted to the display.

However, I adjusted to the 12 Mini and it's very easy on my eyes now- I found that 90% brightness and then a reduce whitepoint of 95 got me to a place to where the flicker didn't bother me in the slightest, and it wasn't too bright for my eyes that are rather light sensitive.

But when I played around with a 13 Mini for a while, something was different- no headaches, but just a bit of that gritty, piercing feeling in the eyes, no matter what I did with brightness/reduce whitepoint. Not quite sure why that would be, assuming it can't have worse pwm flicker than the 12 mini- and reading the writeup today on the regular 13, I would almost think that the 13 mini is the same- which should be easier on the eyes.

 

[now i see it]

There’s no set rule as to what strobe frequency will bother someone. I know that for me, the slow 60hz flickering of CRT monitors wrecks my eyes.

 

[daviddcmd]

My experience; got the 13 Pro at launch, initially no eye strain or headaches, yay!. Then slowly I started experiencing both to the point where I couldn't use it any more, returned it. Lucked into a 13 Pro Max so I gave it a try. Couldn't take it even half a day so I retuned it to.

Back to my 11 Pro which for some reason I have no problems with. My wife's X is the worse for me.

 

[Proteinaceous]

Yeah, wut?

that doesn’t seem right….

I agree. This doesn’t align with other empirical evidence.

Notebookcheck has released his review for the iphone 13 on the german page and it has a PWM Frequenzy of 609 Hz on brightness level 10% and below:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Smartphone - Wertiges Apple Handy mit hellerem Screen

Experten-Test des neuen iPhone 13. Die neueste Generation des Apple Smartphone ist ein Handy mit langer Laufzeit. Das Apple Gerät kann aber nicht nur lange durchhalten, sondern ist auch eines der leistungsstärksten Handys auf dem Markt. Nun gibt es auch Sensor Shift im iPhone 13.

www.notebookcheck.com

Interessting. Maybe i should try the iPhone 13 in store and see how my eyes react.

 

[JM]

Yeah really. It makes me want to try it out myself for the two week return window.

I said I would get the mini…. But that Pro is so, so nice with the promotion. I think I’d have to get some Christmas money first. I don’t know quite have enough.

 

[jm31828]

Notebookcheck has released his review for the iphone 13 on the german page and it has a PWM Frequenzy of 609 Hz on brightness level 10% and below:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Smartphone - Wertiges Apple Handy mit hellerem Screen

Experten-Test des neuen iPhone 13. Die neueste Generation des Apple Smartphone ist ein Handy mit langer Laufzeit. Das Apple Gerät kann aber nicht nur lange durchhalten, sondern ist auch eines der leistungsstärksten Handys auf dem Markt. Nun gibt es auch Sensor Shift im iPhone 13.

www.notebookcheck.com

Interessting. Maybe i should try the iPhone 13 in store and see how my eyes react.

Hopefully their reviews of the Pro and Mini are not far behind so we can compare/contrast and try to make sense of what we are seeing here in this particular review!

 

[RobinYerbank]

My conclusion to that post was that there’s more to life than a new iPhone. It’s better to return it at the first sign of a tension headache or migraine than it is to deal with eye strain on a daily basis.

I agree! Having to return the 13 Pro Max ended up being a blessing in disguise. I feel so much better mentally with a phone that hasn't got me chained to a 24-month finance agreement, paying for features that are nice but not worth the extra money. Although I'm tempted to say "it's just a phone", I must admit that my iPhone is important for my daily life and enjoyment. However, I certainly don't need a top-of-the-range latest model. It's a great example of dimishing returns.

And just as importantly, I'm really enjoying the health benefits of avoiding the OLED display. It's a shame that Apple has seemingly abandoned LCD for iPhones going forward (apart from the SE line), but at least we'll get support for years to come, hopefully long enough for a more eye-friendly display to come along. Fingers crossed for microLED!

 

[ignaciobarrena]

I'm shocked by the iPhone 13 results.

If the flicker rate is so high, how is it that I had problems with the 13 lineup but the 12 is okay?

I need a scientific explanation, there is something we aren't catching haha

 

[now i see it]

hopefully long enough for a more eye-friendly display to come along. Fingers crossed for microLED!

Micro LED dims exactly the same way as OLED - with PWM.

 

[Mr.Simple]

Maybe it has something to do that also BOE supplies OLED Display for the iPhone 13 like macrumors has say in their article today and they have reviewed a iPhone 13 with this display.

Here the review for the 13 pro from notebookchecks german page:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Pro - Bombastisches Smartphone mit kleinen Schönheitsfehlern

Im Test überzeugt das Apple iPhone 13 Pro mit dem neuen A15 Bionic, 6 GB RAM, viel Speicher, einer starken Triple-Kamera und bombastischen Akkulaufzeiten.

www.notebookcheck.com

510 Hz on brightness 100 to 10%. Under 10% it should behave like dc dimming with relativ constant 240 Hz. The modulation curve looks here also good. I will wait for the 13 pro max review to see if there any differences. When the 13 pro max behaves the same i don't think i could have more luck with the 13 pro. A iphone 13 with a OLED Display from BOE could be a different thing.

 

[ignaciobarrena]

Micro LED dims exactly the same way as OLED - with PWM.

dims exactly the same, but the flicker rate is much much higher.

The 2021 iPad Pro with miniLED for example according to notebookcheck:

"The display backlight flickers at 19190 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 100 % and below. There should be no flickering or PWM above this brightness setting.

The frequency of 19190 Hz is quite high, so most users sensitive to PWM should not notice any flickerin."

Maybe it has something to do that also BOE supplies OLED Display for the iPhone 13 like macrumors has say in their article today and they have reviewed a iPhone 13 with this display.

Here the review for the 13 pro from notebookchecks german page:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Pro - Bombastisches Smartphone mit kleinen Schönheitsfehlern

Im Test überzeugt das Apple iPhone 13 Pro mit dem neuen A15 Bionic, 6 GB RAM, viel Speicher, einer starken Triple-Kamera und bombastischen Akkulaufzeiten.

www.notebookcheck.com

510 Hz on brightness 100 to 10%. Under 10% it should behave like dc dimming with relativ constant 240 Hz. The modulation curve looks here also good. I will wait for the 13 pro max review to see if there any differences. When the 13 pro max behaves the same i don't think i could have more luck with the 13 pro. A iphone 13 with a OLED Display from BOE could be a different thing.

I just saw it. I'm kind of curious about first measurements of the 13 Pro displays from the chinese... They labeled them as high risk displays. Also, I used a 13 Pro for about 10 days and my eyes were more tired than using my iPhone 12.

Sure there must be an explanation or some variable that we aren't taking into account here.

 

[jm31828]

Maybe it has something to do that also BOE supplies OLED Display for the iPhone 13 like macrumors has say in their article today and they have reviewed a iPhone 13 with this display.

Here the review for the 13 pro from notebookchecks german page:

Test Apple iPhone 13 Pro - Bombastisches Smartphone mit kleinen Schönheitsfehlern

Im Test überzeugt das Apple iPhone 13 Pro mit dem neuen A15 Bionic, 6 GB RAM, viel Speicher, einer starken Triple-Kamera und bombastischen Akkulaufzeiten.

www.notebookcheck.com

510 Hz on brightness 100 to 10%. Under 10% it should behave like dc dimming with relativ constant 240 Hz. The modulation curve looks here also good. I will wait for the 13 pro max review to see if there any differences. When the 13 pro max behaves the same i don't think i could have more luck with the 13 pro. A iphone 13 with a OLED Display from BOE could be a different thing.

This is so interesting! In theory this should mean that most people shouldn't have any trouble with the Pro display- but we still see reports on this thread from quite a few who say they do. Could those possibly just be the ones with the absolute most sensitivity to PWM, and what we are seeing here is that most with more mild sensitivity should be fine?

And to understand these numbers scientifically- it says 510 Hz 100- 10%. I get that, it means there is PWM, but it's at a relatively high 510Hz rate. But what exactly does this mean on the under 10%, with possible DC dimming at a constant 240Hz. Does that mean no flicker down at that range, and it would act more like an LCD screen at that brightness level where what you see is what's really happening as far as a dim display with no strobing?

Edit: I just read through this again, and there is also mention of DC dimming being implemented, but they don't go into detail on that. I assume they just mean that DC dimming allows the adjustment of brightness anywhere from 100- 10% without any difference in the flicker frequency?

I have a 12 Mini that after a couple weeks of adjustment, has not been problematic for my eyes at all. I tried a 13 Mini and something was different about it that caused just a bit of pain so I returned it- but I am tempted now to spend the extra $$ to get a Pro given what we are seeing about the display.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I think we give notebook check too much credit (when they have made errors in their reporting before) - or the results they gather too much importance.

Even with the very high PWM rate that has been reported on the new ipad pro 12.9 with mini led, I personally found it strained my eyes. I could see a shimmering glimmer at the edges of my vision like a flash light was crossing my eyes. I also felt my focus drifting, something I've experienced on the iphone 11 which has LCD. 🤷‍♂️

First hand experience is most important here and I think it's the combination of technologies that is potentially causing the issues. I could use the 13 Pro and 13 Mini without the gritty eye feeling nor the strain in the side eye muscles that I have felt with all the OLED iPhones since the X, so something has definitely changed. But the eye pain and migraines I felt later the next day actually seemed worse than previous years.

Maybe my eyes and brain are becoming more sensitive to whatever is triggering this effect - but reading the hundreds of posts from people having similar issues leads me to think it is the technology. I realise there is alot of hope that when one of the 4 new iPhone 13's doesn't work for you, that one of the others will - but I strongly doubt it.

Originally I thought the 13 Mini was the issue and the 13 Pro was so much nicer on my vision because of the buttery smooth 120hz promotion. But after using the 13 Pro and immediately going back to my 7 Plus I had a sudden motion sickness feeling and my eyes got very screwy. So now I'm thinking Pro Motion is also an issue in the mix. Or it could just be the software Apple now implements across all iOS devices. 🤔

 

[jm31828]

I think we give notebook check too much credit (when they have made errors in their reporting before) - or the results they gather too much importance.

Even with the very high PWM rate that has been reported on the new ipad pro 12.9 with mini led, I personally found it strained my eyes. I could see a shimmering glimmer at the edges of my vision like a flash light was crossing my eyes. I also felt my focus drifting, something I've experienced on the iphone 11 which has LCD. 🤷‍♂️

First hand experience is most important here and I think it's the combination of technologies that is potentially causing the issues. I could use the 13 Pro and 13 Mini without the gritty eye feeling nor the strain in the side eye muscles that I have felt with all the OLED iPhones since the X, so something has definitely changed. But the eye pain and migraines I felt later the next day actually seemed worse than previous years.

Maybe my eyes and brain are becoming more sensitive to whatever is triggering this effect - but reading the hundreds of posts from people having similar issues leads me to think it's the technology. I realise there is alot of hope that when one of the 4 new iPhone 13's doesn't work for you, that one of the others will - but I strongly doubt it.

Interesting you mention the 11. I thought I was losing my mind- I had the 11 for a year, and often I had some minor eye pain looking at that display- it does not have PWM, so I thought I was just imagining things! It was so strange.

I upgraded to 12 Mini and had some experience with gritty eyes, maybe slight discomfort for the first week or two using it, but after my eyes adjusted I've been fine, with none of the discomfort I often had with the 11! Weirdest thing.
But, I do think I am indeed bothered a little by PWM, because if I look at my wife's XS Max for more than a minute or so, it is quite uncomfortable.

My issue is that it does seem that my eyes take a long while to adjust to new screens- I never had this issue moving amongst older iPhones- 6s to 7, 7 to 8+- but since getting the 11 I have noticed this with phones. But it's been that way with new laptops over the years, too- uncomfortable for a while, then I get used to them and have no issues.

Makes it difficult deciding in the two week return window if a new iPhone is truly going to work for me or not!

 

[Newjack171]

I find it interesting that this issue varies so much from person to person. Some people report dizziness/nausea and intense migraines while others have just mild discomfort.

I feel some eye strain and a slight pulsating headache with iPhone oleds. Not as bad other people's experience but enough for me to stick with my 11.

The 11 will probably get support till 2024(maybe even 2025),though I'd really prefer to be using a nice OLED even now in 2021. No telling what the smartphone world will look like at that time but I might have to switch over to Samsung since their phones have never given me issues.

I also have a Nord N10 5g that I use as a backup. 1080p LCD and it looks nice. Why couldn't apple at least give us a 1080p screen for the price that we're paying?