Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jaapnl]

I have a few days before I need to send back my 11, so I can do a detailed comparison between it and the 13 Pro Max. Anything in particular that you'd like to know?

I should point out that I've used previous OLED iPhones without much trouble, though. It's just the 13 series that I've been struggling with. This will be my second 13 Pro Max and I'm more determined to adjust to this one and keep it!

Could just open up a random piece of text and really try to focus on the letters and readability. It doesn't need to take long time, but if you can do it next to the 11 would be great.
*EDIT: Preferably with a white background, so something other than Macrumors

 

[RobinYerbank]

Not the most scientific test, but here are two slo-mo videos comparing the 13 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max, the latter I've got for a few days until I send it back to Sky. This does make me cast some doubt on the NotebookCheck results (13 Pro vs 13 Pro Max)!

Flicker is definitely noticeable in both, but it seems so much worse with the 12 Pro Max.

12 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878196

13 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878223

 

[Proteinaceous]

Not the most scientific test, but here are two slo-mo videos comparing the 13 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max, the latter I've got for a few days until I send it back to Sky. This does make me cast some doubt on the NotebookCheck results (13 Pro vs 13 Pro Max)!

Flicker is definitely noticeable in both, but it seems so much worse with the 12 Pro Max.

12 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878196

13 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878223

I’m not sure how much faith I have in NotebookCheck’s numbers. The data seems all over the place with these 4 phone models and the numbers don’t seem to match empirical information we have seen. I’m not an expert in this area so maybe there are reasons.

Having said that, if the 13 ProMax is (essentially) 240hz like NotebookCheck says and the slomo frame rate you are using is also 240hz (the slomo frame rate for iPhones, I believe), the lack of (apparent) flickering could just be that the 2 frame rates are in sync.

 

[asus389]

Wow. I'm starting to think that every screen of these bloody phones is different. How can the Pro Max be so much lower than the regular Pro?? That makes no sense.

Yeah it’s weird. I am able to use the 12 Pro and 11 Pro Max at full brightness with True Tone off. But other OLED iPhone give me headaches. None of them are as good as the old school Apple LCD screens though.

 

[RobinYerbank]

I’m not sure how much faith I have in NotebookCheck’s numbers. The data seems all over the place with these 4 phone models and the numbers don’t seem to match empirical information we have seen. I’m not an expert in this area so maybe there are reasons.

Having said that, if the 13 ProMax is (essentially) 240hz like NotebookCheck says and the slomo frame rate you are using is also 240hz (the slomo frame rate for iPhones, I believe), the lack of (apparent) flickering could just be that the 2 frame rates are in sync.

Yeah, I'm really not sure I trust their numbers at all. They also measured the 12 Pro Max at 238Hz, so why do they look so different? I get that they might be slightly out of sync with the shutter of the camera, but I took multiple slo-mo videos of both phones and they look consistent across all of them.

And didn't ZolloTech see no flicker at all under slo-mo?

 

[JM]

Not the most scientific test, but here are two slo-mo videos comparing the 13 Pro Max and 12 Pro Max, the latter I've got for a few days until I send it back to Sky. This does make me cast some doubt on the NotebookCheck results (13 Pro vs 13 Pro Max)!

Flicker is definitely noticeable in both, but it seems so much worse with the 12 Pro Max.

12 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878196

13 Pro Max:
View attachment 1878223

that was my finding on the 12 mini and 13 mini. The flickering seemed worse on the 12.

 

[Proteinaceous]

Yeah, I'm really not sure I trust their numbers at all. They also measured the 12 Pro Max at 238Hz, so why do they look so different? I get that they might be slightly out of sync with the shutter of the camera, but I took multiple slo-mo videos of both phones and they look consistent across all of them.

And didn't ZolloTech see no flicker at all under slo-mo?

So the 12 and 13 max’s are the same frequency? Ha. Well, no idea what is going on then.

And, yes, ZolloTech had the same result you had with slomo on the 13 pro max. He also saw no (visible) flicker on the 13 pro (non-max) under slomo. Both non-pro 13’s flickered a lot under slomo…again, consistent with your videos.

 

[now i see it]

Slo mo won’t tell anyone jack whether the screen with thrash their nervous system or not. Got to try it out in person for an extended period of time — like all day reading MR forums.

 

[RobinYerbank]

Slo mo won’t tell anyone jack whether the screen with thrash their nervous system or not. Got to try it out in person for an extended period of time — like all day reading MR forums.

Agreed, but it’s still interesting to visualise the differences between these displays!

I think it’s worth trying to figure out the correlation (if any) between PWM frequencies and the various versions of our sensitivities. ??‍♀️

However, I admit that it so far seems very hard to crack. It’s a little different for almost every one of us.

 

[lbass]

Has anyone else picked up a MacBook Pro today? I feel pretty nauseous from the 16", which is a feeling I have only ever had on the 13 Pro/Pro Max. Makes me think that the variable refresh technology is the biggest problem for me. I will trial having it off (though promotion was a main selling point).

 

[TDDM]

Has anyone else picked up a MacBook Pro today? I feel pretty nauseous from the 16", which is a feeling I have only ever had on the 13 Pro/Pro Max. Makes me think that the variable refresh technology is the biggest problem for me. I will trial having it off (though promotion was a main selling point).

Sorry to hear you’re having trouble with the 16”.

That’s disappointing, I was hoping the miniLED screen would be better flicker-wise. Out of curiousity, were you able to use any previous Macs without symptoms?

 

[lbass]

Sorry to hear you’re having trouble with the 16”.

That’s disappointing, I was hoping the miniLED screen would be better flicker-wise. Out of curiousity, were you able to use any previous Macs without symptoms?

Yes. I have never had an issue with any Mac (and I have owned a majority of them). I can tell almost immediately that turning off Promotion has helped a lot. I have the miniLED iPad Pro and that is fine.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Has anyone else picked up a MacBook Pro today? I feel pretty nauseous from the 16", which is a feeling I have only ever had on the 13 Pro/Pro Max. Makes me think that the variable refresh technology is the biggest problem for me. I will trial having it off (though promotion was a main selling point).

Yes. I have never had an issue with any Mac (and I have owned a majority of them). I can tell almost immediately that turning off Promotion has helped a lot. I have the miniLED iPad Pro and that is fine.

Interesting as I found the iPad Pro 12.9 with miniLED did stress my eyes - not as bad as OLED but I could feel it (skating, unfocused vision leading to strain). Again though, I think this is software + display controller & dithering, coupled with the fact this iPad does have PWM (but with very high Hz). I have no doubt the new 14" and 16" Macbooks will have all of the above, this is why I did not pre-order. Hopefully, I can spend some time with a colleagues purchase to see how to affects me.

It's at this point of constantly replying to these issues that I wonder "why do I keep buying Apple products"........

I hope you can find a way to adjust to your shiny new Macbook.

 

[RobinYerbank]

So... the 13 Pro Max has me torn. I think the PWM has been okay so far, although I've not brought it with me to work. I need more time with it to be sure.

However, the display itself is a pretty awful one. When at low brightness and showing a dark UI, there's a strong red tint on the upper-left side of the display (seems to get worse when the phone gets hot) and the lower part is tinted green. It also has a bit of purple smearing when scrolling grey UI elements in dark mode.

My original 13 Pro Max didn't have any of these issues, the display was perfect! I mean apart from the whole eye strain thing, which I'm still investigating.

I'm struggling to decide which phone to keep. Do I keep the 12 Pro Max? It has a perfect display, apart from very slight green tint at minimum brightness (normal for the model), but it's obviously 60Hz, lesser battery life etc.

Or I do bother taking the 13 Pro Max in for a replacement/display change? Is it worth the hassle? The next display could be just as bad or worse, even.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

So... the 13 Pro Max has me torn. I think the PWM has been okay so far, although I've not brought it with me to work. I need more time with it to be sure.

However, the display itself is a pretty awful one. When at low brightness and showing a dark UI, there's a strong red tint on the upper-left side of the display (seems to get worse when the phone gets hot) and the lower part is tinted green. It also has a bit of purple smearing when scrolling grey UI elements in dark mode.

My original 13 Pro Max didn't have any of these issues, the display was perfect! I mean apart from the whole eye strain thing, which I'm still investigating.

I'm struggling to decide which phone to keep. Do I keep the 12 Pro Max? It has a perfect display, apart from very slight green tint at minimum brightness (normal for the model), but it's obviously 60Hz, lesser battery life etc.

Or I do bother taking the 13 Pro Max in for a replacement/display change? Is it worth the hassle? The next display could be just as bad or worse, even.

If it were me I would exchange it. I want a flagship phone as much as everyone else here, but even if I won the PWM lottery, I would not settle on a defective display showing greens and reds where they shouldn’t be. Not on a free phone, let alone one I paid well over a thousand bucks for.

 

[now i see it]

There’s nothing “flagship” about these expensive iPhones

 

[RobinYerbank]

If it were me I would exchange it. I want a flagship phone as much as everyone else here, but even if I won the PWM lottery, I would not settle on a defective display showing greens and reds where they shouldn’t be. Not on a free phone, let alone one I paid well over a thousand bucks for.

I agree and definitely won’t settle for such a bad display. I suppose I’ll book a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday to get it looked at and will use the rest of the week to evaluate the PWM aspect of it.

It’s just that a part of me wants to throw in the towel and keep the problem-free 12 Pro Max, despite it being inferior spec-wise.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I agree and definitely won’t settle for such a bad display. I suppose I’ll book a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday to get it looked at and will use the rest of the week to evaluate the PWM aspect of it.

It’s just that a part of me wants to throw in the towel and keep the problem-free 12 Pro Max, despite it being inferior spec-wise.

It wouldn't be the worse idea to stick with the 12 Pro Max IF you are happy with it and the screen is good. Panel lottery is no fun.

BUT if you will keep thinking "I wish I had exchanged the 13 Pro Max"..........

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I agree and definitely won’t settle for such a bad display. I suppose I’ll book a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday to get it looked at and will use the rest of the week to evaluate the PWM aspect of it.

It’s just that a part of me wants to throw in the towel and keep the problem-free 12 Pro Max, despite it being inferior spec-wise.

That is understandable but I will say this, I would kill to use the 12 Pro Max problem free. I’d happily give up slightly better battery life and macro mode to have a modern phone that doesn’t bother me. Try not to get tooooo hung up on the specs. Comfort is priceless and the 13PM is not a material leap from the 12PM (IMO).

 

[DJTaurus]

Guys to be honest even iPhone 11 is more stressful to the eyes compared to older LCDs like iPhone 6/7/8….

 

[JM]

I agree and definitely won’t settle for such a bad display. I suppose I’ll book a Genius Bar appointment for Saturday to get it looked at and will use the rest of the week to evaluate the PWM aspect of it.

It’s just that a part of me wants to throw in the towel and keep the problem-free 12 Pro Max, despite it being inferior spec-wise.

12 pro is still amazing! Just imagine in a year or two or three when you update to the 15 or something. It’ll be another big leap. And the 12 pro is amazing and still better than the normal 12. Heck that long lense is great and I would have loved to get the 11 pro even.

 

[JM]

Guys to be honest even iPhone 11 is more stressful to the eyes compared to older LCDs like iPhone 6/7/8….

Facts. ?

 

[RobinYerbank]

It wouldn't be the worse idea to stick with the 12 Pro Max IF you are happy with it and the screen is good. Panel lottery is no fun.

BUT if you will keep thinking "I wish I had exchanged the 13 Pro Max"..........

That is understandable but I will say this, I would kill to use the 12 Pro Max problem free. I’d happily give up slightly better battery life and macro mode to have a modern phone that doesn’t bother me. Try not to get tooooo hung up on the specs. Comfort is priceless and the 13PM is not a material leap from the 12PM (IMO).

12 pro is still amazing! Just imagine in a year or two or three when you update to the 15 or something. It’ll be another big leap. And the 12 pro is amazing and still better than the normal 12. Heck that long lense is great and I would have loved to get the 11 pro even.

I think you guys are right, I think I'm gonna cut my losses and just stick with the 12 Pro Max. I don't think I can take the stress of exchanges/repairs and playing the OLED lottery, all for the display that I'm pretty sure I won't be able to live with anyway. The 13 Pro Max is definitely harsher on my eyes and I can see myself all red and sore within a week, just like last time.

Pros of the 12... Pro Max:

• Excellent display with perfect uniformity
• Pacific Blue is honestly my favourite colour of any iPhone ever
• The monthly payments are much lower (I plan to pay it off early when I can, but it's more affordable in the meantime)
• It doesn't burn my eyes! 😂

I should count myself lucky that I can get along with this phone. Sure, it's disappointing that the 13 series either makes me nauseous or ruins my eyes, but the 12 Pro Max is still awesome and will easily see me through until microLED (hopefully)!

Apart from ProMotion, a feature that honestly doesn't impress me that much, they basically feel like the same phone anyway...

 

[jimmy_uk]

I think you guys are right, I think I'm gonna cut my losses and just stick with the 12 Pro Max. I don't think I can take the stress of exchanges/repairs and playing the OLED lottery, all for the display that I'm pretty sure I won't be able to live with anyway. The 13 Pro Max is definitely harsher on my eyes and I can see myself all red and sore within a week, just like last time.

Pros of the 12... Pro Max:

• Excellent display with perfect uniformity
• Pacific Blue is honestly my favourite colour of any iPhone ever
• The monthly payments are much lower (I plan to pay it off early when I can, but it's more affordable in the meantime)
• It doesn't burn my eyes! 😂

I should count myself lucky that I can get along with this phone. Sure, it's disappointing that the 13 series either makes me nauseous or ruins my eyes, but the 12 Pro Max is still awesome and will easily see me through until microLED (hopefully)!

Apart from ProMotion, a feature that honestly doesn't impress me that much, they basically feel like the same phone anyway...

12 PM is still top tier and will last for many years. My 7+ is still rocking on.

 

[RobinYerbank]

I feel like a moron for not trying this before and I'm sorry for boring you guys with yet another change of course... but you guys are the only ones I know who understand what this stuff is really like!

Until now, I've been drawing my conclusions about the OLED iPhones during the day when they're in bright environments, brightness reasonably high and running light mode. I don't seem to have much trouble from them under these conditions.

It's a totally different story at night, though. I just compared the 13 Pro Max, 12 Pro Max and 11 with the same settings and showing the same webpage (this one). It's crazy how different they all are under these conditions for me, especially when trying to read in dark mode!

13 Pro Max: my eyes feel like they're going to pop out. A sensation of pressure, heaviness, dryness and mild pain. It's also difficult for me to focus on the text.

12 Pro Max: similar to the 13PM, but less intense. Still very straining and difficult to focus on text. I also realised just how awful the green tint is when compared to the other two phones.

11: a huge relief. No discomfort, easy to focus on the text and read with ease. Colours look more natural and 'clean'. The only (minor) downside is lack of pure black, which has never bothered me.

I feel so dumb for not trying this simple comparison, but it's really illustrated the extent of my PWM sensitivity to me. It's also made me realise how easy it is to sort of get used to the discomfort and ignore it (perhaps motivated by a desire to enjoy these high-end iPhones). It's only when doing a comparison and feeling the relief of the LCD that it becomes clear.

I'm going to send these self-torture devices back. Now I'm considering an iPad Pro to complement the 11 to make up for its shortcomings (e.g. lack of 5G)!