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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

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Are you experiencing this issue?

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@RobinYerbank

That surprises me, because the iPhone 13 Pro Max has DC-Dimming,
especially for low brightness. You should then actually have no or fewer
problems than with normal brightness. It's strange that whole PWM thing.
 
PwmMen said:
@RobinYerbank

That surprises me, because the iPhone 13 Pro Max has DC-Dimming,
especially for low brightness. You should then actually have no or fewer
problems than with normal brightness. It's strange that whole PWM thing.
Click to expand...

There’s so much conflicting data about these things. All I know is that the discomfort is real.

I’ve finally come to accept that flicker-free (or at least extremely high frequency PWM) is all I can reliably use.
 
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RobinYerbank said:
There’s so much conflicting data about these things. All I know is that the discomfort is real.

I’ve finally come to accept that flicker-free (or at least extremely high frequency PWM) is all I can reliably use.
Click to expand...
You hit the nail on the head. For over 3 years we’ve tackled everything from
- PWM HZ rates
- Flicker level
- Scrolling bars
- What’s revealed using Slo Mo
- DC Dimming
- Bogus ‘work arounds’ like reducing white points and changing brightness levels
- Dissecting what websites say about the displays
- Dithering
- Effects of Face ID and Attention Awareness
- Posts that were so scientific that I needed a translator lol
- 50 things I’ve forgotten about since this all started

Bottom line, the numbers do not matter. Our individual test cases do not matter. Our hypothesis and theories are just that….

There is one, and only one thing to truly consider. How the phone affects you individually in real world use. Because despite EVERYTHING we have dissected in over 4,000 comments, your eyes won’t lie to you.
 
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I know this maybe isn't the best place to post this, but I think here is where most of the PWM discussion is happening.

www.notebookcheck.net

The Apple MacBook Pro 14 M1 has arrived and reveals some problems

The new MacBook Pro 14 with the M1 Pro SoC has finally arrived and we want to describe our first impressions of the chassis, the notch in the display as well as the speakers. Both the display as well as the performance do not really meet the high expectations though.
www.notebookcheck.net www.notebookcheck.net

Display - 14-inch Mini-LED with Notch and PWM​

Let's start with the camera notch, which is located in the upper area of the screen and it is obviously immediately visible. Apple basically uses a 16:10 panel with additional space next to the notch, which are used for the menu bar. When you use apps in fullscreen mode like Safari with YouTube, for example, this area disappears and you use the regular 16:10 screen. The subjective picture impression of the panel is very good and you can also notice the 120 Hz compared to the regular 60 Hz mode.
Like the Mini-LED screen on the current Ipad Pro, we can once again detect constant PWM flickering at 14.8 kHz at all brightness levels. The frequency is very high, but it might still cause problems when you are sensitive to the flickering. We are still testing the brightness, because our first results showed that the luminance is capped at just 500 nits for SDR contents.

---

Mine arrives in a month, I hope the display doesn't bother my eyes :eek:
 
Well at least 14,800 hz is better than 513 hz of the iPhone 13 pros. (Almost 3X faster).

I purchased an LED backlit monitor a few years ago - and there was no way I could use it. Every pixel on the screen seemed to be shimmering.
Returned it and got an old school CCFL backlit monitor and all was well (no flickering)
 
ARizz44 said:
Bottom line, the numbers do not matter. Our individual test cases do not matter. Our hypothesis and theories are just that….

There is one, and only one thing to truly consider. How the phone affects you individually in real world use. Because despite EVERYTHING we have dissected in over 4,000 comments, your eyes won’t lie to you.
Click to expand...
I think most of us are trying to figure out before buying whether the device is likely to cause problems. Trying and returning devices gets old after some time.
 
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ghanwani said:
I think most of us are trying to figure out before buying whether the device is likely to cause problems. Trying and returning devices gets old after some time.
Click to expand...
I agree with you 100%. I’m in the same boat. Now I can’t even find the phone I want to even try it again. I live by Chicago and none of the 14 Apple stores have had a Pro 512gb in the 100 times I’ve obsessively checked this past week.
 
Just buy a test mule of any storage tier or color available. If you can tolerate it — send it back and order the one you really want
ARizz44 said:
I agree with you 100%. I’m in the same boat. Now I can’t even find the phone I want to even try it again. I live by Chicago and none of the 14 Apple stores have had a Pro 512gb in the 100 times I’ve obsessively checked this past week.
Click to expand...
 
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ARizz44 said:
I agree with you 100%. I’m in the same boat. Now I can’t even find the phone I want to even try it again. I live by Chicago and none of the 14 Apple stores have had a Pro 512gb in the 100 times I’ve obsessively checked this past week.
Click to expand...
Not that this helps... but when I picked up my mini at a apple store I was making small talk, and the guy ringing me up said that they had a few people return their pros still new in box that people could buy. But, of course, they got snatched up relatively quickly.

So. You may get lucky if you haunt the apple store all day :p
 
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ARizz44 said:
I agree with you 100%. I’m in the same boat. Now I can’t even find the phone I want to even try it again. I live by Chicago and none of the 14 Apple stores have had a Pro 512gb in the 100 times I’ve obsessively checked this past week.
Click to expand...

Do we think the Pro in particular is better than the other models? I'm not sure I trust the claims that it has 'DC dimming'.

It's the only model I haven't tried, but I've already given up hope! I've got three boxed iPhones on my desk right now waiting to go back and I hate all of them. :mad:
 
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RobinYerbank said:
Do we think the Pro in particular is better than the other models? I'm not sure I trust the claims that it has 'DC dimming'.

It's the only model I haven't tried, but I've already given up hope! I've got three boxed iPhones on my desk right now waiting to go back and I hate all of them. :mad:
Click to expand...
Time for Android perhaps?
 
Expos of 1969 said:
Time for Android perhaps?
Click to expand...
It's crossed my mind. The Pixel 6 Pro does look pretty cool, but I worry I might have the same issues with most Android phones as well. PWM OLED is everywhere, although Apple's implementation seems to be regarded as the most problematic? I've also tried a Pixel 5 and Galaxy Z Flip3 and didn't get on with them.

I'm overall happy with my iPhone 11. The only features I miss are the better cameras (especially telephoto) and 5G (more for future-proofing the next few years).

At this point, I'm resigned to waiting out the next couple of years and seeing what comes out. If the rumoured XR-based SE is real and is significantly better than the 11, I might jump on that. But the current rumours point it to having a single rear camera. :confused:
 
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RobinYerbank said:
It's crossed my mind. The Pixel 6 Pro does look pretty cool, but I worry I might have the same issues with most Android phones as well. PWM OLED is everywhere, although Apple's implementation seems to be regarded as the most problematic? I've also tried a Pixel 5 and Galaxy Z Flip3 and didn't get on with them.

I'm overall happy with my iPhone 11. The only features I miss are the better cameras (especially telephoto) and 5G (more for future-proofing the next few years).

At this point, I'm resigned to waiting out the next couple of years and seeing what comes out. If the rumoured XR-based SE is real and is significantly better than the 11, I might jump on that. But the current rumours point it to having a single rear camera. :confused:
Click to expand...
It is tricky for sure. I had the original SE and loved it for its size and build quality. Replaced it with SE gen 2 and found it bothered my eyes somewhat, even though it is LCD. Replaced it with my first Android, Samsung Galaxy S10e. Great phone, as small as I could find, nice AMOLED display and I had no eye issues at all. Still have it but had an urge 2 weeks ago to get the iPhone 13 mini. I am sort of regretting that now. I like the camera on the S10e a bit more and going back to iOS after 2 years on Android is a bit of a shock.
 
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Expos of 1969 said:
It is tricky for sure. I had the original SE and loved it for its size and build quality. Replaced it with SE gen 2 and found it bothered my eyes somewhat, even though it is LCD. Replaced it with my first Android, Samsung Galaxy S10e. Great phone, as small as I could find, nice AMOLED display and I had no eye issues at all. Still have it but had an urge 2 weeks ago to get the iPhone 13 mini. I am sort of regretting that now. I like the camera on the S10e a bit more and going back to iOS after 2 years on Android is a bit of a shock.
Click to expand...
13 Mini working out for you - PWM wise?
 
Against what should be my better judgement, I'm rolling the dice one more time and I've ordered a standard 13 (Midnight, 256GB) which should come at the end of next week. I'm hooked on the reporting that the display is a constant 609.8hz so feel out of all of the OLED phones on the market that if any was going to work for me, this will be it (or not). Also its the only iPhone available for the quickest delivery in the UK as all other models are a month lead time - and I've already tried the 13 Pro and 13 Mini.

Through experience, I'm a glass half empty approaching this phone but have to try one last time before potentially putting the 13 series to bed. 🤞 I was also spurred on by the mixed reports on what the SE3 will be, all I can be certain of is that it won't be 1080p or higher so I'm not waiting.

I will most certainly be reporting back.
 
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jimmy_uk said:
Against what should be my better judgement, I'm rolling the dice one more time and I've ordered a standard 13 (Midnight, 256GB) which should come at the end of next week. I'm hooked on the reporting that the display is a constant 609.8hz so feel out of all of the OLED phones on the market that if any was going to work for me, this will be it (or not). Also its the only iPhone available for the quickest delivery in the UK as all other models are a month lead time - and I've already tried the 13 Pro and 13 Mini.

Through experience, I'm a glass half empty approaching this phone but have to try one last time before putting the 13 series to bed. 🤞

I will most certainly be reporting back.
Click to expand...
Gather round and laugh at this idiot (me, not Jimmy)! I'm also rolling the dice one last time (how many times have I said that?) and I'm collecting a 13 Pro this evening...

It's the only one of the 4 that I haven't tried and I'm going to put some potentially misguided faith in what NotebookCheck claims about it:

"Unfortunately, the OLED panel suffers from PWM flickering (flickering frequency at 10% brightness and below: 240 Hz; at above 10% brightness: 446.4-510.2 Hz). However, Apple has integrated a DC dimming mode into the iPhone 13 Pro. All in all, the iPhone’s screen does quite a bit to ameliorate the OLED flickering."

I'm hoping that the above, plus it being a smaller display than the Max, may be just enough for me to tolerate! Call me insane if you'd like. Maybe I'm just desperate.
 
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RobinYerbank said:
Gather round and laugh at this idiot (me, not Jimmy)! I'm also rolling the dice one last time (how many times have I said that?) and I'm collecting a 13 Pro this evening...

It's the only one of the 4 that I haven't tried and I'm going to put some potentially misguided faith in what NotebookCheck claims about it:

"Unfortunately, the OLED panel suffers from PWM flickering (flickering frequency at 10% brightness and below: 240 Hz; at above 10% brightness: 446.4-510.2 Hz). However, Apple has integrated a DC dimming mode into the iPhone 13 Pro. All in all, the iPhone’s screen does quite a bit to ameliorate the OLED flickering."

I'm hoping that the above, plus it being a smaller display than the Max, may be just enough for me to tolerate! Call me insane if you'd like. Maybe I'm just desperate.
Click to expand...
You can only try and hope - the fact there are 4 options and they might all have different display characteristics I can totally understand you having one last go. Fingers crossed.
 
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