Wait, this makes sense. I was watching some videos for the first time in pitch black, and the brightness was all the way down…. And I didn’t have any discomfort that I do during the day.
(Bonus: saw my first Raised Blacks! Yay me.)
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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(Bonus: saw my first Raised Blacks! Yay me.)
Been playing the 13pro last night and forced myself to play a game, read some news etc.. After 10 min got a terible headache/nausia/eye pain kept playing for another 20 min. Then turned to 60hz refresh rate and turned of auto brightness and adjusted the brightness to about 5-10 percent, then i had the idea i felt a bit better. When i stand up i felt totally ****ed up, what a terrible experience. Today i still have a bit of nausia / headache, feels like a hangover or something.
Will try with the low brightness and 60hz later to discover if it really makes a difference otherwise this 13pro can go straight back to apple again
Will try with the low brightness and 60hz later to discover if it really makes a difference otherwise this 13pro can go straight back to apple again
No display issues here. Are you using iPhone 13 Pro?
It’s an improvement, but still not enough to not cause issues.
Since most users seem to find less discomfort when the screen is set to full brightness, as a workaround hack, couldn’t a dark screen protector be used to cut back the brightness a lot so that the display could be set to max brightness but the output wouldn’t be blinding?
Of course you’d lose peak brightness outside and the battery life would be bad- but maybe that would be a worthwhile trade off
Of course you’d lose peak brightness outside and the battery life would be bad- but maybe that would be a worthwhile trade off
No 13 mini. The lowest brightness levels I noticed like I thought you said you did that there is less discomfort vs. full brightness.
Also, what I saw in pitch black watching Netflix (or YouTube can’t remember which one), is that on a completely black scene, the pixels were definitely off, but there was this strange ghostly green hue to the bottom of the phone. Really faint though…. Nothing like what people had posted in that raised blacks thread.
Regarding PWM and brightness levels. I don’t even know what to make of that on the newest phones. They have their typical max brightness then they have these peak brightness modes that have to do with watching certain video content. Can anyone tell if their is a difference in symptoms in either of these two modes?
The other week I upgraded from the iPhone 11 to the regular iPhone 13 and since then I have experienced light-headedness and faint nausea but funnily enough not headache's associated with PWM sensitivity since using the iPhone 13
I really love the phone and it pains me to return it as I can't use the device without feeling ill despite my best efforts (reduce white point/FaceID awareness etc)
I was under the misapprehension that the 13's OLED Displays vs previous iPhones eg: 11Pro/12 had a much higher cycle frequency that it would no longer cause issues, albeit fringe cases
Has anyone else had the same experience with the regular 13 and returned it subsequently?
I really love the phone and it pains me to return it as I can't use the device without feeling ill despite my best efforts (reduce white point/FaceID awareness etc)
I was under the misapprehension that the 13's OLED Displays vs previous iPhones eg: 11Pro/12 had a much higher cycle frequency that it would no longer cause issues, albeit fringe cases
Has anyone else had the same experience with the regular 13 and returned it subsequently?
Various members have had issues to some degree with each of the 13 series phones. It varies not only by phone, but by user as well. Some tolerate the mini or 13 better than the pro or pro max. Others, complete opposite. The frequency rates are indeed higher, and many report the 13 series is an improvement, but if you read the last 10 or so pages you’ll find that in our personal use cases, the actual PWM rates don’t necessarily equate to better experiences for everyone.
Unfortunately leaving the auto-brightness off at 3% doesn’t prevent migraines or throbbing behind the eye, although the display is surprisingly versatile at the lower brightness level in that I’m usually able to view it under most lighting conditions.
Let’s turn auto-brightness back on and see what happens…
Let’s turn auto-brightness back on and see what happens…
Generally I feel like symptoms are around half the intensity of iPhone X, which is a definitive improvement but the reference point is comparing practically 24/7 headaches and migraines that could be quite severe.
What iPhone are you using currently? I'm looking to return the phone for an iPhone SE 2020 begrudgingly as the iPhone 11 was just a tad to big and heavy (hence the 13 upgrade)
Correct me if I'm wrong also Michael, but did see you mentioned in this thread many pages ago that the SE 2020 had the best contrast LCD display according to notebookcheck?
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I still have my 13 pro here with holiday return until the 7th of januari, but i am scared to use it. Don't want to get this bad pain again 
I figured out that some xiaomi phones do have a 10bit panel and a flicker free feature build in. I am going to try the 11t pro which has a really good specs and i am curious if this is usable for me.
I figured out that some xiaomi phones do have a 10bit panel and a flicker free feature build in. I am going to try the 11t pro which has a really good specs and i am curious if this is usable for me.
Then you’ve already lost the battle. Might as well return it now.
Placebo symptoms are very real. Even if something is completely non toxic (placebo), if someone believes it is, they’ll experience symptoms just the same. Happens in blind trials all the time.
If I believed that my LCD iPhone 8 was emitting X-rays into my eyes when I looked at it, I’m sure I’d develop symptoms.
Been using the iPhone 13 Pro for a couple of days and so far so good. But we’ll see once I have been using it longer as I am always very cautious with a new phone.
I’m using iPhone 13 Mini. It is odd since sometimes I can use the display at 40% brightness mostly without issues as I am now and other times the PWM bothers me more drastically. There probably is a laundry list of ways for PWM-sensitive users to prevent symptoms, such as waiting around an hour after waking up before picking up a phone and limiting usage, but these don’t necessarily apply to LCD phones.
I was using iPhone SE prior to this, which I preferred to iPhone 11 due to the size and the higher-contrast LCD display as you’ve noted. iPhone 13 Mini is admittedly a significant upgrade as far as features when I’m not bothered by eye strain issues. If iPhone 13 Mini doesn’t work out for me in the next few weeks I’d probably upgrade to the upcoming third-generation iPhone SE: 5G alone is worth the upgrade.
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i understand what you say is true but i am sure it's also fysical since i sense much different symptoms between different screens/devices
What’s odd is that I setup a 50% brightness shortcut and while the screen is a bit too bright for everyday usage I’m having better luck at this setting than I did previously. A lot of my issues do come from when the display makes drastic changes, I.e. going from 40% to 14%. Otherwise I do find it suitable when it makes minor changes at the lower brightness level, I.e. 0% to 2%.
Auto-brightness. Can’t live with it, can’t live without it.
Auto-brightness. Can’t live with it, can’t live without it.
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I’m having good luck at this current brightness level. Dimmer reports it as 22%, but I’m not fully convinced that’s accurate.
As I’ve said earlier I think consistency is one of the keys, since I’m using this brightness level mostly without issues. I’d prefer if Apple kept the frequency and amplitude the same throughout. I also find that if my brain adjusts to where I’m able to use the display comfortably I tend to get more headaches or throbbing pain after use, but I do have to say that in retrospect iPhone 13 Mini has been a drastic improvement over iPhone X even if it isn’t free of issues.
I feel an attachment to this phone otherwise I’d try iPhone 13 as well for the reportedly higher PWM rate. I suppose it’s possible to add a MagSafe battery pack if somebody were to really love the Mini form factor and want the option of adding extra battery life when needed. This little phone has a fantastic display — I’m all about quality over size when it comes to displays. I’ll take a 5.4” OLED over a 7” LCD any day, or even an 11” OLED over a 50” LCD for that matter for those that remember the original OLED monitor by Sony.
As I’ve said earlier I think consistency is one of the keys, since I’m using this brightness level mostly without issues. I’d prefer if Apple kept the frequency and amplitude the same throughout. I also find that if my brain adjusts to where I’m able to use the display comfortably I tend to get more headaches or throbbing pain after use, but I do have to say that in retrospect iPhone 13 Mini has been a drastic improvement over iPhone X even if it isn’t free of issues.
I feel an attachment to this phone otherwise I’d try iPhone 13 as well for the reportedly higher PWM rate. I suppose it’s possible to add a MagSafe battery pack if somebody were to really love the Mini form factor and want the option of adding extra battery life when needed. This little phone has a fantastic display — I’m all about quality over size when it comes to displays. I’ll take a 5.4” OLED over a 7” LCD any day, or even an 11” OLED over a 50” LCD for that matter for those that remember the original OLED monitor by Sony.
Just as an update: I have returned my iPhone 13 for the SE 2020 and as expected the eye-strain/nausea/feelings of despair have vanished overnight. It was definitely the OLED display causing grief despite my best efforts to convince myself it was unrelated
It's unfortunate as the iPhone 13 ticked all the boxes for form factor and battery life/camera but sadly for me the OLED display made it unusable. I eagerly await the rumoured iPhone SE 3 in 2022 although, the fear is they still could use an OLED instead of LCD given it's ubiquity
As much as it pains me to cope with the mediocre battery life of the SE, and the camera - The almost nostalgic form factor is like an old friend albeit one which has aged terribly - However Touch ID ironically is a plus given the seemingly relentless pandemic we continue to live in, so it will do as a hold-over till smartphone OLED tech reaches an equilibrium
The moral of the story for me anyway as always is, the grass isn't always greener.
It's unfortunate as the iPhone 13 ticked all the boxes for form factor and battery life/camera but sadly for me the OLED display made it unusable. I eagerly await the rumoured iPhone SE 3 in 2022 although, the fear is they still could use an OLED instead of LCD given it's ubiquity
As much as it pains me to cope with the mediocre battery life of the SE, and the camera - The almost nostalgic form factor is like an old friend albeit one which has aged terribly
- However Touch ID ironically is a plus given the seemingly relentless pandemic we continue to live in, so it will do as a hold-over till smartphone OLED tech reaches an equilibriumThe moral of the story for me anyway as always is, the grass isn't always greener.
I have the equipment to precisely measure PWM frequency and amplitude but I don't have access to any of the iPhone 13 models unfortunately...
That is great! it is possible to buy an iphone at Apple and test it for 2 weeks before returning it?
The PWM frequency and amplitude has already been measured and recorded and posted for these iPhones.
At this point it doesn’t matter what it is. Some people get nailed by certain models of iPhone 13 to some degree while others do not.
Knowing the precise PWM frequency of an iPhone 13 model is no predictor of trauma.
At this point it doesn’t matter what it is. Some people get nailed by certain models of iPhone 13 to some degree while others do not.
Knowing the precise PWM frequency of an iPhone 13 model is no predictor of trauma.
Barring the questionable ethics of knowingly buying something to use it briefly and then return it, it would be very useful data to have what your measuring devices come up with.
I’ll just look the other way ? lol.
Knowing where the amplitude is the least steep can be helpful for those of us that need to avoid auto-brightness, but we should just use the phone as intended honestly and not get too scientific. Bottom line is that some degree of PWM symptoms are still unavoidable for those that are sensitive.
Edit: eh, we’re still trying too hard to make these phones usable.
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Haha indeed we try to hard, but for me personally it's the fact i can't stand that i don't fully understand what is causing the discomfort. its a ****ing phone that is giving such a terrible pain, it makes almost no sense for something that we can't even see to give this reaction. And than the fact that almost everyone can use the phone without any problems that is the worse