Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Mr.Simple]

I also wish a better next year for us. But when i see the first results of the new LTPO 2.0 OLED Display from Samsung Display on the Xiaomi 12 Pro it doesnt really look promising Here at 2:58:

No mention of a higher PWM Frequency or DC Dimming on the presentation form Xiaomi

The results for the iPhone 13 from the last video are not bad. But i had before seen also a video that uses the same flicker meter to test the flicker percentage and the results are higher. From 2:45:

Here the results goes up to 40%. But the 6% on max brightness are a good score for a OLED Display. After i had to give up on the iPhone 13 Pro and Pro Max i dont know if i really want to try the iPhone 13.

 

[now i see it]

OLED is toxic tech. I don’t understand the fascination with it. It looks worse, it scrolls like hell, it has off axis color shift, low light levels impart a color tinge to black screens - and it flickers like hell.

Oh yeah, blacks are darker - BFD.

 

[jimmy_uk]

OLED is toxic tech. I don’t understand the fascination with it. It looks worse, it scrolls like hell, it has off axis color shift, low light levels impart a color tinge to black screens - and it flickers like hell.

Oh yeah, blacks are darker - BFD.

Amen.
?

 

[AJTC]

Especially when Apple's LCDs are the best LCDs I've ever used. They should embrace LCD (maybe even keep improving it?) more than putting it in budget products.

 

[5105973]

Apple Store staff have encouraged me on multiple occasions to use the 14-day window for testing, saying it’s “why it exists”. And it’s also a legal requirement if you order online (distance selling).

I admit I may have stretched it a little far with my iPhone saga earlier this year, but I don’t see any issue with test driving iPhones for a couple of weeks as long as you look after them!

---

P.S. I’ve had my 13 Pro for six weeks now and still loving it! I usually forget the PWM thing exists until I decide to check in on you guys now and then.

I’ve really come to enjoy the smaller Pro and I’m actually glad to have downsized. I don’t feel like I’ve lost much because it’s got the same awesome cameras as the Max and it still has superb battery life, beating my old 12 Pro Max by a long way.

Excellent phone, it’s just a shame that it’s still no good for some of us. 🥲

I’m so happy it’s working out for you! It’s reassuring to know sometimes some of the displays can work for some of us. We will all keep experimenting, I guess.

Lol, well I won’t be experimenting any more. I’m really happy with my mint green iPhone 11. I’ve bought so many cute cases for it. It really was “the one that got away” for me so I’m thrilled to finally own it and “settle down” with it. It does what I need of it quite beautifully.

I’m fortunately able to use the Pixel 6 Pro for big screen stuff and the advanced smartphone photography. I’m also happily able to read ebooks again on my iPad mini 6 and on my iPhone 11. It’s just so nice to be able to pick a device up and not have to worry if it’s going to make me sick.

I haven’t yet had any problems with the jelly scrolling on the iPad 6 mini. So that’s a relief!

 

[5105973]

OLED is toxic tech. I don’t understand the fascination with it. It looks worse, it scrolls like hell, it has off axis color shift, low light levels impart a color tinge to black screens - and it flickers like hell.

Oh yeah, blacks are darker - BFD.

I’m not a fan, either. It’s more that I’d tolerate the displays (if possible) to get the better radios and camera improvements.

But really going back to the iPhone 11, call quality has been fine. I’m not seeing 5G drain the heck out of my batteries anymore. And daylight point and shoot photos are excellent. Where I lose out is in some optical zoom options and some lowlight photography advances. Big woop. At least I don’t feel like I’m battling a neurodegenerative disorder anymore.

To be fair though, when I want those features I mentioned, I can safely use the Pixel 6 Pro. I’m just very dependent on iOS for many reasons so I want my iPhone to feel competent and competitive. And happily, for me, the iPhone 11 does. And my XR was not bad either.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I also wish a better next year for us. But when i see the first results of the new LTPO 2.0 OLED Display from Samsung Display on the Xiaomi 12 Pro it doesnt really look promising Here at 2:58:

No mention of a higher PWM Frequency or DC Dimming on the presentation form Xiaomi

The results for the iPhone 13 from the last video are not bad. But i had before seen also a video that uses the same flicker meter to test the flicker percentage and the results are higher. From 2:45:

Here the results goes up to 40%. But the 6% on max brightness are a good score for a OLED Display. After i had to give up on the iPhone 13 Pro and Pro Max i dont know if i really want to try the iPhone 13.

While nobody has done a direct comparison, after watching more videos testing amplitude it does seem like iPhone 13 and iPhone 13 Mini are the best options. It is odd since I’d consider improved PWM to be a Pro feature and the display on iPhone 13 has objectively better color accuracy than iPhone 13 Pro despite having a higher PWM rate.

Especially when Apple's LCDs are the best LCDs I've ever used. They should embrace LCD (maybe even keep improving it?) more than putting it in budget products.

Apple can produce amazing LCD’s, but I think they’ve reached their peak with that technology. As a display enthusiast I do have to say that OLED makes the quality infinitely more enjoyable to look at in my opinion. I want a flicker-free OLED on all my Apple devices.

It’s becoming more apparent that Apple’s design team is unlikely to embrace an approach such as LG’s OLED TV where the flicker is virtually nonexistent. In that case I wouldn’t mind if they continue raising the PWM rate. 1000Hz+ should hopefully be enough for the average user to prevent all prospective PWM issues.

 

[SeenJeen]

I've noticed that the mornings I don't use my XS, I don't get headaches in the front of my head.

I'm going to experiment with this more.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve set the brightness level to 15% and left auto-brightness off: still not perfect especially for watching videos, but it’s not half-bad. I can physically feel when the auto-brightness makes drastic changes. As noted the 60Hz mode at under 15% works well and better than what we’ve had in the past. Regardless, I noted that amplitudes are still the highest at low brightnesses. If I can keep it at one consistent amplitude and frequency it’s like my brain is still sensitive enough to the flicker to adjust to that frequency so my observation is that switching between 60Hz and 510Hz presents the biggest issues. Also, how are we still discussing this in 2022?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I quite like the form factor of iPhone 13 Mini, but if the rate on the standard iPhone 13 is slightly higher then it may be worth giving it a shot before deciding. What say ye forum members?

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I say, and I say with all sincerity and from a good place, that if it takes 3 months of analyzing numbers, reviews, messing with settings, tweaks, multiple phones, etc…..there comes a time where you have to accept what it is and move on. I tried the Pro, it bothered my eyes enough to notice, and that was enough for me. Especially with a $1,000+ investment. I guess I just don’t have the time or energy to beat it like a dead horse. Or maybe having a 12 or 13 series doesn’t mean as much to me. But if I’m paying that much money for something I use all the time. I shouldn’t have to find the exact percentage of brightness, white point, etc to make headaches and eye strain more ‘manageable’. My opinion only.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I say, and I say with all sincerity and from a good place, that if it takes 3 months of analyzing numbers, reviews, messing with settings, tweaks, multiple phones, etc…..there comes a time where you have to accept what it is and move on. I tried the Pro, it bothered my eyes enough to notice, and that was enough for me. Especially with a $1,000+ investment. I guess I just don’t have the time or energy to beat it like a dead horse. Or maybe having a 12 or 13 series doesn’t mean as much to me. But if I’m paying that much money for something I use all the time. I shouldn’t have to find the exact percentage of brightness, white point, etc to make headaches and eye strain more ‘manageable’. My opinion only.

I concur, and that was my consensus originally as well: to return it at the first sign of a headache or migraine rather than dealing with a bunch of workarounds that don’t fully work. I suppose I just like iPhone 13 Mini enough so over the alternatives that I’m considering keeping it since it’s more usable than iPhone X or iPhone 12. Realistically the brightness controller should be so fine-tuned that we experience zero migraines or headaches. I’m surprised they don’t put the highest rate on the Max models since it has the largest battery to accommodate it, or at least a setting to raise the PWM rate. I’m becoming more convinced that they could alleviate symptoms by raising the rate to 1000Hz or ideally even higher.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I concur, and that was my consensus originally as well: to return it at the first sign of a headache or migraine rather than dealing with a bunch of workarounds that don’t fully work. I suppose I just like iPhone 13 Mini enough so over the alternatives that I’m considering keeping it since it’s more usable than iPhone X or iPhone 12. Realistically the brightness controller should be so fine-tuned that we experience zero migraines or headaches. I’m surprised they don’t put the highest rate on the Max models since it has the largest battery to accommodate it, or at least a setting to raise the PWM rate. I’m becoming more convinced that they could alleviate symptoms by raising the rate to 1000Hz or ideally even higher.

I hear ya. My concern is how long this will continue. Every year I hope is ‘the’ year I can go back to buying the phone I want with no fear of discomfort. And every year, I’m left waiting on and hoping for the next release to be it. I have zero interest in any form of an SE based on what is believed to be known today and they stopped selling 256gb 11’s to replace my current one. Not gonna lie, getting a bit nervous. I reallyyyyyyyy don’t want to go Android but if the 14 doesn’t work for me I will have to.

 

[now i see it]

I mentioned this previously on a few other threads, but I recently purchased an Apple refurbished iPhone 8 Plus 128GB and it’s perfect (for me). Plenty fast. Great screen. Good camera, and ZERO eye strain. ZERO headache. ZERO nausea. ZERO PWM. ZERO flicker… and it has touchID which I much prefer.

The “best” iPhone does exist. It’s just that most everyone is overlooking it.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm insanely bothered by the current state of affairs with sourcing a new phone. My 7 Plus constantly reloads, locks up and has gotton alot slower in the last few months to the point that it is unbearable to use.

The standard 13 was so close 😩. I'm strongly tempted to get one again and see if I can get past the queasy/burping phase as I don't have any other options.

I'm holding out for a trial on the Samsung S22 series in March but don't expect goods things because, you know, OLED - and this will showcase the displays Apple will ultimately use on the 14 series. Who knows, it might the OK this time.....

The SE 3 looks like a total bust as it's just an SE 2 but with 5G, so will have an even worse battery. I have zero interest in this form factor as it's too small and too low res. Fine as a phone but not a consumption device.

Damn it. 😖

 

[MICHAELSD]

I hear ya. My concern is how long this will continue. Every year I hope is ‘the’ year I can go back to buying the phone I want with no fear of discomfort. And every year, I’m left waiting on and hoping for the next release to be it. I have zero interest in any form of an SE based on what is believed to be known today and they stopped selling 256gb 11’s to replace my current one. Not gonna lie, getting a bit nervous. I reallyyyyyyyy don’t want to go Android but if the 14 doesn’t work for me I will have to.

My pessimistic speculation says that Apple will keep the maximum PWM rate at between 510-610Hz for the next generation or four as they tend to remain consistent yet oddly slightly disparate between iPhone 13 models.

If I was being more optimistic I could make the argument that since they’ve started improving the brightness controller they’ll continue making more drastic changes.

An Accessibility mode specifically for people like us could work wonders. There are certainly people with conditions beyond PWM sensitivity that could prevent them from staring at a flickering display.

I’ve been experimenting and finding that the best option may be to disable auto-brightness and use Brightness Shortcuts. In theory Shortcuts could even be programmed so I could use I.e. 40% during the day and 15% at night. Not ideal that we still have to create our own workarounds, but getting creative isn’t the end of the world.

Ultimately while that makes the phone more usable it’s still not enough to prevent headaches. On the bright side it is at least half as profound as iPhone X.

 

[dimitricook]

My 13 mini arrived today and i get the nausia / headache feeling as with the 13 and 13 pro, send it back today Only the 13pro max to go haha

 

[MICHAELSD]

My 13 mini arrived today and i get the nausia / headache feeling as with the 13 and 13 pro, send it back today Only the 13pro max to go haha

It’s unlikely for iPhone 13 Pro Max to be any better since it has basically the same rate as the iPhone 12 series.

I’ve been finding iPhone 13 Mini to become more usable over time. If you’re that persistent it may be better to stick with iPhone 13/Mini/Pro and figure out which settings and brightness levels work best.

Admittedly that’s added work and the opposite of my consensus for iPhone 13 Pro: I suppose I’m enjoying iPhone 13 Mini more and it’s usable enough that I am pretty close to keeping it.

I’ve found my main issue is that when auto-brightness takes effect, even with minor adjustments, I typically notice them in the form of an intermittent throbbing headache. It’s like my brain adjusts to the specific flicker, which can still lead to a slight throbbing headache after use. In retrospect it’s a fraction of what I experienced with iPhone X or iPhone 12 Pro Max. So what I may do is take note of where the auto-brightness likes to adjust brightness and setup a more manual system for adjustments. I.e. I just changed my 40% brightness shortcut to 38% since that’s where auto-brightness tends to adjust while indoors. Still, it may be best to leave auto-brightness on and figure out a way to make it slightly more consistent.

What I’ve found odd is that the lower brightness levels tend to bother me more than they used to when I was using iPhone 13 Mini mostly at night. It’s still good news overall that the 60Hz rate at under 15% works as well as it does as those lower brightness levels are better than ever.

I’ve also found that Reduce White Point set to the lowest 25% setting can reduce eye strain during the day, although I prefer to leave it off.

I’m still considering trying iPhone 13, and the only reason is if Notebookcheck’s PWM measurement of 610Hz is accurate then it may make a noticeable difference. I love the size and display quality of iPhone 13 Mini, but a potential further 20% decrease in headaches would make the standard iPhone 13 worth consideration.

 

[MICHAELSD]

50% brightness with 50% Reduce White Point.

Other forum members might look at us like we’re crazy, but we’re just trying to make these phones usable. Or maybe it’s just me.

 

[dimitricook]

I understand what you mean, but with all my experience with the 11,12 and 13 series i can say this won't work for me. I try'd to use the 12 for several months, the 11pro for 6months for example and still got headaches from them...

Besided that i don't like the small size of the 13 mini display. I am now used to a 6.5inch display which is the perfect size for me for reading and watching video's.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I understand what you mean, but with all my experience with the 11,12 and 13 series i can say this won't work for me. I try'd to use the 12 for several months, the 11pro for 6months for example and still got headaches from them...

Besided that i don't like the small size of the 13 mini display. I am now used to a 6.5inch display which is the perfect size for me for reading and watching video's.

Headaches are unlikely to completely go away over time, but IMO these phones need a longer trial period than a day. It’s gotten to the point where it’s become more usable, potentially with workarounds. There was absolutely no way I could keep iPhone X or iPhone 12 Pro Max.

iPhone 13 Pro Max will likely be a waste of time as it has a 238Hz rate.

 

[dimitricook]

If the headaches don't go away i don't want to use them, do you?
From al my long experience using an trying these phones i know now what i can tolerate and what not. This display feels exactly the same as al the others.

 

[MICHAELSD]

If the headaches don't go away i don't want to use them, do you?
From al my long experience using an trying these phones i know now what i can tolerate and what not. This display feels exactly the same as al the others.

It’s a difficult decision. My headaches with iPhone 13 Mini are at a ~ 4 compared to iPhone X. I rated iPhone 13 Pro as a 7. They’re still there, but subdued. Also not nearly as persistent.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Apologies for double posting:

My main issue is with the auto-brightness oddly. I got a momentary throbbing headache when it switched from 38% to 39%. It also can be slightly difficult to watch HDR content — I’m not sure how the varying highlights affect the rate/amplitude.

If iPhone 13 didn’t supposedly have a higher PWM rate I’d stick with iPhone 13 Mini as I have found myself growing to love this form factor. This is what phones once were, if not even smaller. I may still keep this phone, but I think I owe it to myself if I’m going that direction this generation to try iPhone 13 and see how that goes first.

If it wasn’t for persistent feedback from myself and PWM-sensitive people Apple probably wouldn’t have increased rates and developed a new brightness controller. While still relatively low, it’s now the highest in the industry for an OLED smartphone.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I gotta be completely honest and I know this won't be a popular opinion, but it is only that, an opinion. There is not an ounce of me that believes Apple is purposely making any adjustments to assist the PWM sensitive. I fully believe any improvement has been incidental due to other changes they are making to the panels for other reasons. If it was truly due to feedback, they would fix it completely vs bird feeding tiny incremental improvements.