Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

Definitely still getting migraines/headaches/persistent headaches while using iPhone 13 Mini during the day.

iPhone 13 may be slightly better and it only uses the 60Hz mode at the lowest brightness levels, perhaps even lower than 15% but not specified. At this point I’ll likely wait for iPhone 14 since it’s doubtful that a more consistent 610Hz rate will bring my headaches down to a level where I could keep a modern iPhone without impacting my overall health.

My only issue is that now I’m beginning to dislike my iPhone SE since iPhone 13 Mini is significantly improved in every aspect, and a third-generation device without any substantial upgrades beyond 5G will serve to add salt to that wound.

We need an Accessibility option for PWM-sensitive users. Any compromise is better than headaches.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I was thinking earlier that if a PWM-free brightness controller is cost-prohibitive then they should increase prices: apparently there’s a rumor that they’re increasing Pro pricing to $1,099/1,199.

A flicker-free display has seemed like a Pro feature, and that should be one of the premium features used to differentiate from a standard iPhone. Although, everyone should have the benefit of a PWM-free display.

Perhaps it’s more difficult for Apple to justify since it’s not necessarily a marketable feature, but it seems like a necessary one. They’re making progress so I am becoming slightly more optimistic.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I was thinking earlier that if a PWM-free brightness controller is cost-prohibitive then they should increase prices: apparently there’s a rumor that they’re increasing Pro pricing to $1,099/1,199.

A flicker-free display has seemed like a Pro feature, and that should be one of the premium features used to differentiate from a standard iPhone. Although, everyone should have the benefit of a PWM-free display.

Perhaps it’s more difficult for Apple to justify since it’s not necessarily a marketable feature, but it seems like a necessary one. They’re making progress so I am becoming slightly more optimistic.

Apple and Samsung won't ever talk about PWM. Why would they want to talk about a negative and invite any potential future law suits claiming "Apple ruined my eyes/health".

Sorry for the negative outlook but I really don't think they care about the minority affected, they are wealthy businesses doing very good numbers regardless of our issues.

 

[now i see it]

Apple and Samsung won't ever talk about PWM

Exactly. They will never ever publicly mention it. Guaranteed.

“Oh, by the way, over the last five years we’ve sold over 400 million iPhones with OLED screens that cause headaches, eye strain and nausea in a “small” number of users. To counteract that possible negative effect on the “small” number of users, we’ve thought deeply on a solution to counteract this problem and we know you’re going to love this new display.”

 

[MICHAELSD]

It’s understood from a business perspective: if it hypothetically adds $20+ in cost to add a new brightness controller, multiplied across 100 million iPhones that ends up being $2 billion to fix an issue that theoretically only affects a small percentage of users. Nonetheless they should prioritize creating a cost-effective flicker-free brightness controller that they can put on the entire iPhone lineup, or at least on the Pro models.

The display would look even better without discernible flicker, and I’m sure there are more users getting at the least light headaches from staring at a flickering display for 6-8 hours per day. Users complained of headaches when using iPhone X at night due to the more drastic PWM rates at lower brightness levels.

Honestly though I still feel this is more widespread since last time I brought up PWM to an Apple employee they mentioned they had a friend that had to get rid of their Max-sized iPhone due to flickering. This remains an issue that needs a more definitive solution.

 

[Taz Mangus]

My suggestion is that everyone who is affected by PWM send feedback to Apple through Apple Feedback. If you think it won't back a difference, it might if enough people report this to Apple.

 

[MICHAELSD]

My suggestion is that everyone who is affected by PWM send feedback to Apple through Apple Feedback. If you think it won't back a difference, it might if enough people report this to Apple.

I hope they still monitor this thread and that the feedback we gave on iPhone 12 helped influence the higher rates on iPhone 13.

Let’s see 1000Hz+ or at least one flicker-free OLED on iPhone 14.

 

[Taz Mangus]

I hope they still monitor this thread and that the feedback we gave on iPhone 12 helped influence the higher rates on iPhone 13.

Keep reporting it to Apple. Everyone should be doing that.

 

[GlenK]

I think this is far more widespread that anyone realizes. When I returned my last phone the AT&T person said, "I've never heard that before but maybe that's why I have a headache all the time." I believe there are X number of people out there affected that have not connected the dots. Of course there's no way to prove any of these assumptions but reported migraines are on the rise.

Are migraines on the rise in 2020?
In March 2020, the US witnessed a 21% increase in migraines on the highest recording day. When it comes to the causes of migraines and headaches, facts affirm that the attacks can be triggered by anxiety and stress. Following that, migraines have been on the rise since January 2020.

 

[JM]

I think this is far more widespread that anyone realizes. When I returned my last phone the AT&T person said, "I've never heard that before but maybe that's why I have a headache all the time." I believe there are X number of people out there affected that have not connected the dots. Of course there's no way to prove any of these assumptions but reported migraines are on the rise.

Are migraines on the rise in 2020?
In March 2020, the US witnessed a 21% increase in migraines on the highest recording day. When it comes to the causes of migraines and headaches, facts affirm that the attacks can be triggered by anxiety and stress. Following that, migraines have been on the rise since January 2020.

2020 might not be the best year to include in a study of if PWM increased migraines. There was plenty going on to influence headaches. (Really not making a joke here ?)

But, there was increased device usage because a lot of people were home not working…. So maybe increased migraines could be attributed to increased PWM exposure.

 

[Mr.Simple]

Apple and Samsung will need not only talk about but also work on a solution. Because other manufactures like BOE that have make a OLED Display with 1920 Hz PWM rate and promote this feature of his display. Also TCL that make the Display for the Xiaomi 12 promote the DC Dimming function. Display Companys from China make more in this direction and hopefully the pressure will so increase for Samsung Display to FINALLY go in the same direction. A high PWM rate is far more to appreciate that a touch sampling rate of 1000 Hz.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Apple and Samsung will need not only talk about but also work on a solution. Because other manufactures like BOE that have make a OLED Display with 1920 Hz PWM rate and promote this feature of his display. Also TCL that make the Display for the Xiaomi 12 promote the DC Dimming function. Display Companys from China make more in this direction and hopefully the pressure will so increase for Samsung Display to FINALLY go in the same direction. A high PWM rate is far more to appreciate that a touch sampling rate of 1000 Hz.

Apple Watch has three brightness levels and causes zero eye strain.

They should create an Accessibility option with true DC dimming even if if limits the brightness levels, or match competitors like BOE.

 

[JM]

Apple Watch has three brightness levels and causes zero eye strain.

They should create an Accessibility option with true DC dimming even if if limits the brightness levels, or match competitors like BOE.

This is interesting. I’ve been wondering if my mini has a BOE screen since it’s got the same pixel edges to letters I can see, similar to my AW6.

 

[karinatwork]

This may be my last post for a while. I got the iPhone 13 Pro on December 2nd. I chose the Pro because on Zollotech's slow-motion videos it was evident that there was more flickering on the 13 and 13 mini. For some reason, I figured that if I could not see the flickering in slow motion, it must not be as bad, and since OTHER devices in my home flicker too, but don't cause me grief, I went for it. For the first few days, I suffered the classic annoying over-the-eyes headaches I had with the X and the 12. Then, on December 18th, I went on a little trip to the ocean, where for a couple of days I enjoyed the amazing camera capabilities of the phone, and I simply tried to ignore the headaches. Even after my return home, and all during the holiday season, I kept using the phone and ignoring the slight pain over my eyes, and slowly but surely, it got less and less annoying and less pronounced. I had one migraine attack at the very beginning but nothing since. The pain has now gone away completely, and I am wondering if distracting myself and not focusing on the pain helped my brain fight the psychosomatic issues I am known for. (I am a self-declared hypochondriac).

I'm not saying that PWM isn't awful and that in general flickering doesn't cause me discomfort, headaches, and pain. It totally does (I get migraines from flashing lights on emergency vehicles if I look at them too long). But I am saying that BECAUSE the previous phones were MORE awful, and this is definitively better, I had to help my brain convince itself that it was indeed better. Am I making any sense here?

I am happy to report that this phone is as pleasant to use for me now as the previous LCD iterations were. I truly, truly hope that Apple can fix the screens so that there will be no flickering whatsoever, so that more people, and especially the great people on this forum, can take advantage of Apple's newest technology.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This may be my last post for a while. I got the iPhone 13 Pro on December 2nd. I chose the Pro because on Zollotech's slow-motion videos it was evident that there was more flickering on the 13 and 13 mini. For some reason, I figured that if I could not see the flickering in slow motion, it must not be as bad, and since OTHER devices in my home flicker too, but don't cause me grief, I went for it. For the first few days, I suffered the classic annoying over-the-eyes headaches I had with the X and the 12. Then, on December 18th, I went on a little trip to the ocean, where for a couple of days I enjoyed the amazing camera capabilities of the phone, and I simply tried to ignore the headaches. Even after my return home, and all during the holiday season, I kept using the phone and ignoring the slight pain over my eyes, and slowly but surely, it got less and less annoying and less pronounced. I had one migraine attack at the very beginning but nothing since. The pain has now gone away completely, and I am wondering if distracting myself and not focusing on the pain helped my brain fight the psychosomatic issues I am known for. (I am a self-declared hypochondriac).

I'm not saying that PWM isn't awful and that in general flickering doesn't cause me discomfort, headaches, and pain. It totally does (I get migraines from flashing lights on emergency vehicles if I look at them too long). But I am saying that BECAUSE the previous phones were MORE awful, and this is definitively better, I had to help my brain convince itself that it was indeed better. Am I making any sense here?

I am happy to report that this phone is as pleasant to use for me now as the previous LCD iterations were. I truly, truly hope that Apple can fix the screens so that there will be no flickering whatsoever, so that more people, and especially the great people on this forum, can take advantage of Apple's newest technology.

Happy to hear it Karina!

It would be great news if we could all come back to this thread, or not, and say that we’re experiencing no issues from the latest iPhone and that that would be the end of the story.

 

[AJTC]

I just got my iPhone 11 back from Apple with a new battery and after using an iPhone 7 for the past 11 days this phone is perfect and I could definitely do another year or so with it if Apple’s PWM situation doesn’t improve again with the 14.

Unfortunately after using the iPhone 7 for 11 days it has put me off being interested in a 3rd gen iPhone SE if there’s no design change. The screen is too small and battery life was awful.

So it’s the 11 for me for the foreseeable future.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

This may be my last post for a while. I got the iPhone 13 Pro on December 2nd. I chose the Pro because on Zollotech's slow-motion videos it was evident that there was more flickering on the 13 and 13 mini. For some reason, I figured that if I could not see the flickering in slow motion, it must not be as bad, and since OTHER devices in my home flicker too, but don't cause me grief, I went for it. For the first few days, I suffered the classic annoying over-the-eyes headaches I had with the X and the 12. Then, on December 18th, I went on a little trip to the ocean, where for a couple of days I enjoyed the amazing camera capabilities of the phone, and I simply tried to ignore the headaches. Even after my return home, and all during the holiday season, I kept using the phone and ignoring the slight pain over my eyes, and slowly but surely, it got less and less annoying and less pronounced. I had one migraine attack at the very beginning but nothing since. The pain has now gone away completely, and I am wondering if distracting myself and not focusing on the pain helped my brain fight the psychosomatic issues I am known for. (I am a self-declared hypochondriac).

I'm not saying that PWM isn't awful and that in general flickering doesn't cause me discomfort, headaches, and pain. It totally does (I get migraines from flashing lights on emergency vehicles if I look at them too long). But I am saying that BECAUSE the previous phones were MORE awful, and this is definitively better, I had to help my brain convince itself that it was indeed better. Am I making any sense here?

I am happy to report that this phone is as pleasant to use for me now as the previous LCD iterations were. I truly, truly hope that Apple can fix the screens so that there will be no flickering whatsoever, so that more people, and especially the great people on this forum, can take advantage of Apple's newest technology.

I have questioned this a long, long time. Matter of fact, the last time I wrote about was a month or so ago and 2 fellow PWM members hit the laughing face which disappointed me so I deleted it.

My symptoms with the phone last year and this year mimic anxiety. Tension headache, slight nausea, and minimal eye strain. I’m not kidding you, as soon as I get the new phone, while still in the box, I begin to worry it won’t work. Naturally, they heightens my anxiety and causes me to hyper focus on the symptoms I expect to feel. For me, when that happens, I can physically inherit the symptoms.

So is it the chicken or the egg? Is it my anxiety or PWM causing my issues? I think of the 14 day window, think of the $1500, and I panic and return it because I don’t want to get stuck with something I can’t use. Yet, I’d not be shocked if I just accepted it as my new phone, let the 14 days pass, and end up being fine.

To this day I wish I’d never known about this thread before getting an OLED phone. I’m my own worst enemy in this battle.

 

[now i see it]

@ARizz44 Don’t disregard your reactions to anything and second guess them as maybe being neurotic manifestations. Disorientation while staring at flickering lights is well documented. That disorientation where the eyes see one thing (chaos) while the head and body remains still often manifests in motion sickness, the opposite of sea sickness but with the same end result.

With sea sickness/motion sickness, the inner ear says one thing but the eyes say another and the brain can’t reconcile the difference so the nervous system goes haywire and creates nausea/ vomiting.

It’s totally normal (I’ve suffered with seasickness my whole life and sailed half way around the world).
The anxiety part of it is a learned response and valid. People get anxious for a reason. It’s not completely irrational.
So is the fear. Being afraid that the sh*t will hit the fan like it has so many other times in the past under similar circumstances isn’t “crazy” it’s totaled normal.

The fact that one OLED iPhone after another has nailed you is reason enough to give up on them entirely, but not doing so is like lowering yourself back down into a new pit of snakes and hoping this time they’re not poisonous.

That would freak anyone out.

 

[JM]

I just got my iPhone 11 back from Apple with a new battery and after using an iPhone 7 for the past 11 days this phone is perfect and I could definitely do another year or so with it if Apple’s PWM situation doesn’t improve again with the 14.

Unfortunately after using the iPhone 7 for 11 days it has put me off being interested in a 3rd gen iPhone SE if there’s no design change. The screen is too small and battery life was awful.

So it’s the 11 for me for the foreseeable future.

I really did enjoy the 11. Sometimes I miss the larger screen and larger keyboard, but the major trade off is the size which I loath.

 

[user1234]

I have been wondering for some time if reduce white point really makes a difference to PWM, or if the effective brightness is what determines when it switches to a different profile.

A few days ago I had the opportunity to do some flicker measurements on an iPhone 12, and I can say that reduce white point really does help with flicker. It's not as good at above 50% brightness without the option enabled, but it's a lot better than below 50% brightness without the option enabled. Unfortunately the owner of the phone was in a hurry so I didn't have time to test 50% brightness with different levels of whitepoint reduction, but may be able to at some point.

I'm going to post all the data I have so you guys can take a look for yourselves, and I will also comment on my findings.


The following screenshots are from my oscilloscope measuring the display using a light detector that has a fully linear response. All but the last one have all standard settings except for auto brightness and true tone turned off. Dark mode was not enabled. Measured against a white screen. The last one had reduce white point set to 100%, so if that's all you're interested in, scroll to the bottom of the post.

A quick explanation:
The yellow curve is the intensity of the light detected by the sensor. It is linear, meaning we can divide the base voltage with the max voltage to get the flicker percentage using the following formula: (1-(Base/Max))*100. The base and max voltages are presented above the curve. The frequency is displayed in the bottom right corner. The averages below the curve can be ignored. They vary as the sensor is moved which invalidates the average data (but not the momentary reading taken with it in the correct position).

This gives a really good understanding of how the brightness varies over time. We can see the amount of flicker, the frequency, and the characteristic of the flicker in a way that's just not possible with a flicker meter displaying a number, although it's not nearly as portable of a setup.

The screenshot below was taken at 10% brightness. This is showing about 94 % flicker at ~240 Hz.

The screenshot below was taken at 25% brightness. It is showing about 41% flicker at ~240 Hz.

The screenshot below was taken at 50% brightness. It's showing about 8% flicker at ~60 Hz, which is about the same or less than an incandescent light bulb, but at a lower frequency. (Incandescent bulbs flicker at twice the line frequency, 100 Hz for 50 Hz regions, 120 Hz for 60 Hz regions).

The screenshot below was taken at 75% brightness. It's showing about 8.5% flicker at ~120 Hz.

The screenshot below was taken at 100% brightness. It's showing about 7% flicker at ~120 Hz.

The screenshot below was taken at 100% brightness with white point reduction set to 100%. The screen was just a little bit brighter than when set to 10% but the flicker amount is down to ~21% at ~60 Hz compared to 94% when set to 10%. Another interesting thing is the shape of the line, which is different from any other measurement. While not flicker free, it is at least a lot better than without the reduce white point option, and a lot closer to the usual flicker amount at above 50% brightness.

 

[now i see it]

Great stuff. The flickering of an incandescent bulb is not the same as the flickering of an OLED screen. Incandescent bulbs emit light by the heating of the filament inside the bulb. It’s response time in regards to emitting light is really slow - so a 60hz AC voltage doesn’t really cause it to flicker at all.
But microscopic OLED pixels can turn on & off almost instantly, like miniature strobe lights and the effect it has on the eyes & nervous system is very different.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have questioned this a long, long time. Matter of fact, the last time I wrote about was a month or so ago and 2 fellow PWM members hit the laughing face which disappointed me so I deleted it.

My symptoms with the phone last year and this year mimic anxiety. Tension headache, slight nausea, and minimal eye strain. I’m not kidding you, as soon as I get the new phone, while still in the box, I begin to worry it won’t work. Naturally, they heightens my anxiety and causes me to hyper focus on the symptoms I expect to feel. For me, when that happens, I can physically inherit the symptoms.

So is it the chicken or the egg? Is it my anxiety or PWM causing my issues? I think of the 14 day window, think of the $1500, and I panic and return it because I don’t want to get stuck with something I can’t use. Yet, I’d not be shocked if I just accepted it as my new phone, let the 14 days pass, and end up being fine.

To this day I wish I’d never known about this thread before getting an OLED phone. I’m my own worst enemy in this battle.

I think our past experiences can influence our use of these phones, I.e. our brains expecting to adjust to a specific flickering frequency.

However, it’s by no means the rule and if we’re sensitive we’ll likely remain that way. Spending more time adjusting can help, but also leads to more residual headaches for me at least.

I have been wondering for some time if reduce white point really makes a difference to PWM, or if the effective brightness is what determines when it switches to a different profile.

A few days ago I had the opportunity to do some flicker measurements on an iPhone 12, and I can say that reduce white point really does help with flicker. It's not as good at above 50% brightness without the option enabled, but it's a lot better than below 50% brightness without the option enabled. Unfortunately the owner of the phone was in a hurry so I didn't have time to test 50% brightness with different levels of whitepoint reduction, but may be able to at some point.

I'm going to post all the data I have so you guys can take a look for yourselves, and I will also comment on my findings.


The following screenshots are from my oscilloscope measuring the display using a light detector that has a fully linear response. All but the last one have all standard settings except for auto brightness and true tone turned off. Dark mode was not enabled. Measured against a white screen. The last one had reduce white point set to 100%, so if that's all you're interested in, scroll to the bottom of the post.

A quick explanation:
The yellow curve is the intensity of the light detected by the sensor. It is linear, meaning we can divide the base voltage with the max voltage to get the flicker percentage using the following formula: (1-(Base/Max))*100. The base and max voltages are presented above the curve. The frequency is displayed in the bottom right corner. The averages below the curve can be ignored. They vary as the sensor is moved which invalidates the average data (but not the momentary reading taken with it in the correct position).

This gives a really good understanding of how the brightness varies over time. We can see the amount of flicker, the frequency, and the characteristic of the flicker in a way that's just not possible with a flicker meter displaying a number, although it's not nearly as portable of a setup.

The screenshot below was taken at 10% brightness. This is showing about 94 % flicker at ~240 Hz.
View attachment 1942908

The screenshot below was taken at 25% brightness. It is showing about 41% flicker at ~240 Hz.View attachment 1942909

The screenshot below was taken at 50% brightness. It's showing about 8% flicker at ~60 Hz, which is about the same or less than an incandescent light bulb, but at a lower frequency. (Incandescent bulbs flicker at twice the line frequency, 100 Hz for 50 Hz regions, 120 Hz for 60 Hz regions).
View attachment 1942912

The screenshot below was taken at 75% brightness. It's showing about 8.5% flicker at ~120 Hz.
View attachment 1942919

The screenshot below was taken at 100% brightness. It's showing about 7% flicker at ~120 Hz.
View attachment 1942924

The screenshot below was taken at 100% brightness with white point reduction set to 100%. The screen was just a little bit brighter than when set to 10% but the flicker amount is down to ~21% at ~60 Hz compared to 94% when set to 10%. Another interesting thing is the shape of the line, which is different from any other measurement. While not flicker free, it is at least a lot better than without the reduce white point option, and a lot closer to the usual flicker amount at above 50% brightness.
View attachment 1942929

It could be incredibly useful to repeat the same test with iPhone 13. Hypothetically you could order from Apple’s online store and return it for the purposes of science.

Was that an iPhone 12 or iPhone 12 Pro? I ask since I’m slightly surprised that the rate changes throughout.

 

[user1234]

I think our past experiences can influence our use of these phones, I.e. our brains expecting to adjust to a specific flickering frequency.

However, it’s by no means the rule and if we’re sensitive we’ll likely remain that way. Spending more time adjusting can help, but also leads to more residual headaches for me at least.

It could be incredibly useful to repeat the same test with iPhone 13. Hypothetically you could order from Apple’s online store and return it for the purposes of science.

Was that an iPhone 12 or iPhone 12 Pro? I ask since I’m slightly surprised that the rate changes throughout.

Yes, I really do want to test an iPhone 13, but I don't know if I feel good morally about buying with the purpose of returning even though it's my legal right.

Ideally I want to test all models of iPhone, and all Apple products, but I have to get my youtube career going to be able to finance that ?

It was a regular iPhone 12. I'm going to try to borrow it again at run a more thorough test of more brightness steps with reduce white point on and off.


I can also say that I have tested the XR and 11 (which I own) and found no flicker at all. Temporal dithering is usually too subtle of a change to be detectable though.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yes, I really do want to test an iPhone 13, but I don't know if I feel good morally about buying with the purpose of returning even though it's my legal right.

Ideally I want to test all models of iPhone, and all Apple products, but I have to get my youtube career going to be able to finance that ?

It was a regular iPhone 12. I'm going to try to borrow it again at run a more thorough test of more brightness steps with reduce white point on and off.


I can also say that I have tested the XR and 11 (which I own) and found no flicker at all. Temporal dithering is usually too subtle of a change to be detectable though.

That’s surprising since another user measured amplitudes with a Radex at launch and came away with the impression that Reduce White Point only makes a minor impact on amplitude relative to perceived brightness. Also odd that the rate changes throughout—there’s more going on with the brightness controller than we realize. It’s like trying to figure out which settings and brightness levels cause the least amount of issues.

If I had the same device I’d likely be driving myself crazy, which would at least yield a comprehensive amount of scientific information.

Frankly it seems like amateur YouTubers are purchasing the entire iPhone lineup for the purposes of unboxing/reviewing then returning at least two or three of them. Not explicitly prohibited by Apple. Morally questionable at best. I suppose the bottom line is it’s not affecting Apple’s bottom line so it doesn’t truly matter, especially for somebody producing content or providing feedback such as us here desperately trying to use a current-generation iPhone…

 

[super chimp]

First two and half weeks with iPhone 13 Pro was fine. But the last two or three days have been a nightmare of bad eye strain and muscle spasms on right eye as well as a lot of muscle pain around eyes onto head. Not sure how much is due to the phone and how much is due to me being past due on my eye test for reading glasses and distance due to the pandemic. Thinking of swapping back to my iPhone 11 Pro to see if that helps. Be a shame as that has a failing battery and this is a good phone which I am still paying for.

Any suggestions anyone on this?