Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

There is still hope.

Developers have been able to hack some of Samsung’s phones/tablets to disable PWM and make the display flicker-free.

We have to keep contacting Apple until we get a proper response.

 

[mstgkillr]

Also everyone, don't forget that Apple plans to switch things over to Micro-LED once it's available. They will be doing testing in 2019 supposedly with the Apple Watch, and should go from there (LG manufacturing). I'm not certain whether this means if all goes well it could be available to use in the iPhone the very next year, as there are large variations in manufacturing volume between the watch and iphones. I'm also not certain whether they will even be able to look to include it as soon as possible because they start finalizing iPhone design about a year before release, and they'll likely want to see how the micro led does on the watch first.

Either way, optimistically, I don't think Apple will stick with OLED very long. It could be 2-4 years though.

Would microled eliminate PWM?

There is still hope.

Developers have been able to hack some of Samsung’s phones/tablets to disable PWM and make the display flicker-free.

We have to keep contacting Apple until we get a proper response.

What was the screen quality like after removing PWM? I’ve read that PWM for OLED hides uneven brightness of the panel.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Would microled eliminate PWM?

What was the screen quality like after removing PWM? I’ve read that PWM for OLED hides uneven brightness of the panel.

Not too bad or noticeable, uneven brightness would be preferable to eye strain if Apple can release an option to disable it...

 

[mstgkillr]

I had an ocular migraine for the first time on Saturday, which quickly had me on my way to the ER! It really scared me, I thought I was having a stroke or some other significant medical event. It started off as a small blurry spot in the center of my vision, then progressed into a rainbow zigzag mess of colors taking almost half of my field of view. In about 25 min it subsided but left me completely worn out and in the ER. After a CT scan, I was sent on my way with a diagnosis of ocular migraine.

I still have a followup this week with an ophthalmologist for a complete eye exam but I'm leaning towards my iPhone X having something to do with it. I've been using the X since launch and have noticed slight eye strain towards the end of the day, which is something I normally do not experience.

After a complete eye exam, my vision is great and better than 20/20. I easily read both the distance and up close charts at 20/20. They dialated my pupils, a first for me, and all was well.

My ophthalmologist also suffers from ocular migraines. He said that I need to find my trigger, whether it be stress, alcohol, certain lighting, foods, etc... I’ve been thinking long and hard, but the only thing different is my iPhone X. However, I am working long hours and finishing up my engineering degree, but I’ve been on the same schedule for the last few years.

So it’s either my hectic schedule finally catching up with me or my iPhone X.

I contacted Apple, explained my situation, and they quickly offered me a full refund even though I was way past the 14-day return window! I know Apple has excellent customer service and I hope that is what is happening in my case, but I can't help thinking this may be a known issue and larger than we think.

I've already placed my order for an 8 Plus. However, I keep going back and forth with myself. On one side, I think there is no way the PWM could be causing me any issues. On the other, I don't think my symptoms are coincidence.

What is even worse, I assume PWM and OLED is going to be implemented in the flagship iPhones moving forward, at least for the next few iterations.
[doublepost=1512226174][/doublepost]Does anyone know at what frequency the PWM of the iPhone X operates at and at what frequency people become susceptible to the flicker?

I am not sure how accurate it is, but I used my iPhone's SLO-MO camera to test some other displays/lights around my home. The good news is that my 2017 iMac and RMBP do not appear to use PWM. Also, my fiancés iPhone 7 Plus is flicker free. Unfortunately, it appears that just about every other display and light in my home uses PWM. Both of my high end Panasonic TVs, every single light in my house (all CREE LEDs), even my 2017 Sierra Denali uses PWM for the digital gauge cluster. Thankfully, the front LED headlights appear to be ok.

I know that I have been sensitive to the lighting used in large stores like Costco, Was-Mart, etc... since my 20s. I try to get in and out as quickly as possible and hopefully avoid the nausea. I've known that watching too much TV would make my eyes a little tired and the LED lights around my house seemed a little irritating, but I never considered it was because PWM.

It appears that most of my home uses PWM. I work long hours and have been going to school for the last several years so when I'm home I'm usually working on homework or sleeping. I don't have much time for TV anymore. I do use my iPhone and RMBP a ton though.

 

[5105973]

I am not sure how accurate it is, but I used my iPhone's SLO-MO camera to test some other displays/lights around my home. The good news is that my 2017 iMac and RMBP do not appear to use PWM. Also, my fiancés iPhone 7 Plus is flicker free. Unfortunately, it appears that just about every other display and light in my home uses PWM. Both of my high end Panasonic TVs, every single light in my house (all CREE LEDs), even my 2017 Sierra Denali uses PWM for the digital gauge cluster. Thankfully, the front LED headlights appear to be ok.

I know that I have been sensitive to the lighting used in large stores like Costco, Was-Mart, etc... since my 20s. I try to get in and out as quickly as possible and hopefully avoid the nausea. I've known that watching too much TV would make my eyes a little tired and the LED lights around my house seemed a little irritating, but I never considered it was because PWM.

It appears that most of my home uses PWM. I work long hours and have been going to school for the last several years so when I'm home I'm usually working on homework or sleeping. I don't have much time for TV anymore. I do use my iPhone and RMBP a ton though.

I stopped watching TV around the time we went from Plasma to the Samsung LED one. Part of the reason was that I didn’t care for contemporary programming anyway. I prefer to read. But I did find it very hard to pay attention to the screen for any length of time. I never had a good attention span for tv or movies but now it’s abysmal. And I get horrible fatigue. I tire out watching the tv. I preferred watching movies on my 7 Plus. Not even on my Samsung phone.

Interestingly enough last night when taking pictures of the Christmas tree with my 7 Plus and IPhone X and Samsung S8+, my iPhone displays were both fine, but the S8+ Display flickered badly when aimed at the Christmas tree with its mix of incandescent and LED string lights.

 

[MICHAELSD]

This is literally heartbreaking for me, having owned every single iPhone since gen 1. I should want to use my new, expensive iPhone rather than having to put it down after a few minutes after being in pain (eye strain, headaches, etc.) the whole time.

I would have stuck with my Jet Black 7 Plus, which was a great phone, if I knew it was going to be this bad. Unfortunately I see no reason to spend $1000 (with tax) on iPhone 8 Plus when I happily paid $1200 for iPhone X unaware of the issues with the display for those with sensitive eyes — and I’ve never had issues with my vision or sensitivity to strobe lights, etc.

If I have to get rid of iPhone X I may be forced to jump ship... I doubt I will really move to Android but I can’t keep a phone that’s damaging my health. I’m going to try to continue contacting Apple so that they can respond to this issue. I’m surprised they even shipped the phone like this, and that nobody in their testing had issues with the PWM. Seems like a major compromise was made to get it out this year.

 

[gahig ulo]

lol

This is literally heartbreaking for me, having owned every single iPhone since gen 1. I should want to use my new, expensive iPhone rather than having to put it down after a few minutes after being in pain (eye strain, headaches, etc.) the whole time.

I would have stuck with my Jet Black 7 Plus, which was a great phone, if I knew it was going to be this bad. Unfortunately I see no reason to spend $1000 (with tax) on iPhone 8 Plus when I happily paid $1200 for iPhone X unaware of the issues with the display for those with sensitive eyes — and I’ve never had issues with my vision or sensitivity to strobe lights, etc.

If I have to get rid of iPhone X I may be forced to jump ship... I doubt I will really move to Android but I can’t keep a phone that’s damaging my health. I’m going to try to continue contacting Apple so that they can respond to this issue. I’m surprised they even shipped the phone like this, and that nobody in their testing had issues with the PWM. Seems like a major compromise was made to get it out this year.

jump ship to android lol!same PWM issue.just buy the 8 plus or razer phone or the older phones

 

[MICHAELSD]

lol

jump ship to android lol!same PWM issue.just buy the 8 plus or razer phone or the older phones

Yes, Samsung phones are worse but there are plenty of other options without PWM. I honestly don’t want to spend $1000 on iPhone 8 Plus, for the first time ever I would have kept my 7 Plus. However, I will continue trying to make light of this issue so that Apple is forced to respond. I don’t see myself being able to keep this phone for the next year without a detrimental effect on my health if this isn’t rectified.

I’d gladly take a “disables PWM but may cause uneven brightness” option in Accessibility if that’s all they’re willing to do. My eye is literally throbbing staring at the display, they should acknowledge that some people are sensitive to PWM.

 

[garethjs]

I’ve read that PWM for OLED hides uneven brightness of the panel.

I don’t know about that my panel with PWM is already unevenly lit

 

[Earth45]

I’ve just checked on Android Central for the last 35 days that I checked I haven’t seen any eyestrain on their Samsung galaxy S8. Is this just to the panels that Apple received them Samsung?

 

[WindowsTraitor]

As I said in my previous post, I switched to another device and I do not have any more issues now. Since users are talking about PWM and OLED, I will say that my new phone is a Samsung Note 8. This thing has also an OLED, and it does not cause the same effects as the Iphone X. I really hate not being able to have IOS but there is something wrong with the X and I will not risk my eyes over it.

If you look at the video reviews of the iPhone X, you can see the face id laser flashing in the videos when it turns on. I am wondering if it is too strong and it is causing the issue. Nevertheless, I am not going to assume is the screen or else. My empirical evidence says that when I used another device with OLED screen I did not have the same issue.
[doublepost=1512306375][/doublepost]

Yes, Samsung phones are worse but there are plenty of other options without PWM. I honestly don’t want to spend $1000 on iPhone 8 Plus, for the first time ever I would have kept my 7 Plus. However, I will continue trying to make light of this issue so that Apple is forced to respond. I don’t see myself being able to keep this phone for the next year without a detrimental effect on my health if this isn’t rectified.

I’d gladly take a “disables PWM but may cause uneven brightness” option in Accessibility if that’s all they’re willing to do. My eye is literally throbbing staring at the display, they should acknowledge that some people are sensitive to PWM.

I switched to a note 8 and I am not having the issue. You should probably try the note 8 instead of going by assumptions.

 

[jgiannakas]

As I said in my previous post, I switched to another device and I do not have any more issues now. Since users are talking about PWM and OLED, I will say that my new phone is a Samsung Note 8. This thing has also an OLED, and it does not cause the same effects as the Iphone X. I really hate not being able to have IOS but there is something wrong with the X and I will not risk my eyes over it.

If you look at the video reviews of the iPhone X, you can see the face id laser flashing in the videos when it turns on. I am wondering if it is too strong and it is causing the issue. Nevertheless, I am not going to assume is the screen or else. My empirical evidence says that when I used another device with OLED screen I did not have the same issue.
[doublepost=1512306375][/doublepost]

I switched to a note 8 and I am not having the issue. You should probably try the note 8 instead of going by assumptions.

Based on tests I’ve seen floating in this forum the note 8 actually has stronger PWM than the iPhone. Sure it’s not placebo? It switches all the way to 0 brightness even at 50-60% brightness vs the iPhone that flickers maybe 5-10% at 50% brightness

 

[WindowsTraitor]

Based on tests I’ve seen floating in this forum the note 8 actually has stronger PWM than the iPhone. Sure it’s not placebo? It switches all the way to 0 brightness even at 50-60% brightness vs the iPhone that flickers maybe 5-10% at 50% brightness

It is definitely not a placebo effect. Some days I had to take Tylenol because of the pain behind my eyes. (for some reason the left eye was more affected.)

This is why I think that the issue is not with the PWM. If what you say is true about the note 8, then I should have been feeling the same symptoms or worse. This is why I mentioned that the Faced ID may have something to do with it.


look at this video: http://bgr.com/2017/11/03/iphone-x-face-id-video-infrared/

Then read this:

https://www.intersil.com/content/dam/Intersil/documents/an17/an1737.pdf

from the paper: Infrared, visible or ultraviolet electromagnetic radiation, in sufficient concentrations, can cause damage to the human eye. To date, Light-emitting Diodes (LEDs) have not been found to cause any damage. [1] But, with increases in LED efficiency and power, especially with application for Proximity sensing, which provides more chance for direct contact with the eye, it is critical to understand the effects of this type of exposure. The human eye can withstand only a finite amount of optical radiation, beyond which it can be irreversibly damaged.

here you can find a way to calculate if the device will harm you:

https://www.intersil.com/en/products/optoelectronics/ambient-light-sensors/eye-safety.html

I do not know how the FCC let this one through? and then I found this:

Unfortunately, when considering consumer products, the range of control measures is limited. Administrative control measures are limited to policies governing the manufacture of products containing light-emitting devices and personnel protective equipment provides no solution whatsoever. The emphasis is primarily on engineering control measures or engineered solutions.

Most infrared LEDs (and lasers) used in consumer products fall well within the Exempt Group, or Risk Group 1 (low-risk), as specified in IEC-62471. However, as shown in the previous example, with certain settings the SFH4560 IR-LED and the ISL29028A ALS/Proximity Sensor, can exceed eye safety limits if held 1mm from the eye continuously for nearly 17 minutes. Obviously, this is not typical use. More concerning is what may occur during or due to a device or circuit failure. A device failure of any of the Intersil ALS/Proximity Sensors is extremely unlikely to create a condition in which the LED is driven to, or beyond maximum output - based on the LED driver circuit design. However, a failure on the printed circuit board feasibly could cause a short that would connect the LED directly from the supply voltage to ground - producing continuous output at or above maximum radiant power for a short time period. In a variation of the previous example, a direct connection for the IR-LED across non-current-limited 5VDC would exceed the corneal hazard limit with the LED-to-eye distance of 10mm and an exposure time of only 12s.


After reading the above, I am not going to risk it. Your eyes people; do what you want with them.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I disabled FaceID and my situation didn’t improve so I’m not sure that’s the issue. It seems to be with the display but I won’t entirely rule out the possibility.
[doublepost=1512321505][/doublepost]Is it possible we’re not sensitive and there’s just something defective about our devices? It seems to be such a small group of people that I’ll have to test my buddy’s iPhone X to see if I have the same pain. Though I doubt it.

 

[vddobrev]

Is it possible we’re not sensitive and there’s just something defective about our devices? It seems to be such a small group of people that I’ll have to test my buddy’s iPhone X to see if I have the same pain. Though I doubt it.

Why not organise a poll, like turn this thread into a simple Yes/No poll so that there can be a clear count on how many are suffering.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve emailed Tim Cook and Craig Federighi regarding this — not that I expect them to personally respond. When I emailed the late, great Steve Jobs in the past upper management used to get back to me so I hope that’s the case here.

I’ll try calling Apple Support and seeing if they can get my comments to the engineers. It seems like they may be aware of this, and I’d really appreciate a fix soon since I don’t want to compromise my health over iPhone X but I’ll happily keep the phone if they address this.

If anyone has any other ideas for making sure Apple is aware of the issue then please get involved so everyone can enjoy this amazing phone.

 

[Faste]

I disabled FaceID and my situation didn’t improve so I’m not sure that’s the issue. It seems to be with the display but I won’t entirely rule out the possibility.
[doublepost=1512321505][/doublepost]Is it possible we’re not sensitive and there’s just something defective about our devices? It seems to be such a small group of people that I’ll have to test my buddy’s iPhone X to see if I have the same pain. Though I doubt it.

I had the iPhone X first day of released returned it one week later after it was killing my eyes and almost made me go dizzy. I tried my friends phone for one hour a few days after returning mine same problem.

I purchased the phone again and I purchased a total of 7 different screen protectors with tint, matte, blue light protection, and yellow tinting. Nothing worked at all.

I tried all the various screen settings, text size and night mode.

It is not a select batch of phones.

My guess is some people’s eyes are more advance or weaker and pick up the flashing of the screen (PWM.)

I’m on my 4th day of second ownership of this phone and really hoping I get use to it like others have, but it doesn’t seem to be working. Only reason I purchased it again was because some people said they got use to it.

I highly doubt Apple will admit it or apply a fix that would downgrade quality.

At any point if they apply a fix or admit it my guess is that it can open the doors to lawsuits.

 

[Tibits]

I stare at my X much more than I should every day since I got it. No eye strain whatsoever to report.

 

[Kitkad]

Why not organise a poll, like turn this thread into a simple Yes/No poll so that there can be a clear count on how many are suffering.

Done.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Here’s a video of the PWM/flickering:

Previous iPhones would be flat with no flicker.

Interestingly, at 50%-100% brightness the display flickers at 60Hz and at 0-49% it flickers at 240Hz.

If I’m reading that right, the effect would be less pronounced at >50% brightness. If this is the case then I guess I’ll just disable auto-brightness and live with always using it at >50% brightness. Will report back if this alleviates my symptoms. Honestly I’m still feeling pain at 75% brightness but maybe this will help over time.
[doublepost=1512366726][/doublepost]P.s. I will make this go viral if Apple doesn’t address this soon.
[doublepost=1512367214][/doublepost]Another video:

Please fix this, Apple.

 

[vddobrev]

I stare at my X much more than I should every day since I got it. No eye strain whatsoever to report.

Same here, but I feel for the people affected by it!

 

[Pseudo-Fed]

I was keeping up, but now am several pages behind in this thread.

I've had some eye strain since getting my X two days ago. I'm 54. But it's hard to separate honeymoon period staring at the device from what might be PWM. It could be eyes drying out.

I just posted a thread with pics comparing the screen on my 7+ with the new X. For me, the strain I believe was a subtle shrinkage in text size in my most used apps. I did an accessibility text size scale up, and I think it will make a big difference. The crispness and even true tone (works well for me) seem to make the screen easier to look at, so I'm hoping the text size is the culprit.

 

[matthijst]

Here’s a video of the PWM/flickering:

Previous iPhones would be flat with no flicker.

Interestingly, at 50%-100% brightness the display flickers at 60Hz and at 0-49% it flickers at 240Hz.

If I’m reading that right, the effect would be less pronounced at >50% brightness.
Please fix this, Apple.

Thought it was the slower rate causing more problems?

 

[rugmankc]

After a few days of usage, no eye strain. I did bump text size up one notch.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Thought it was the slower rate causing more problems?

I would assume it’s the higher rate since it presents more flicker.