Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[kargurin]

I just spent more time with an Ultra at BB and I must say this has been very encouraging. I would be interested in other opinions on this device. I don't do the slow mo bit because I'm using the Note 10+ atm and it also flickers when recorded but doesn't give me headaches. It is just the product of recording a particular refresh and pwm at a certain fps of recording. Do TVs flicker when shown on a TV program? So they give you a headache?

 

[majkom]

Tvs do not flicker, not all of them.. eg oled tvs do not flicker

 

[kargurin]

All CRT TVs flicker when recorded. If you are old enough you owned a CRT. Monitors and TVs. They never gave me a headache.

 

[DJTaurus]

Tvs do not flicker, not all of them.. eg oled tvs do not flicker

LG OLED C1 gave me crazy headaches

 

[MICHAELSD]

I just spent more time with an Ultra at BB and I must say this has been very encouraging. I would be interested in other opinions on this device. I don't do the slow mo bit because I'm using the Note 10+ atm and it also flickers when recorded but doesn't give me headaches. It is just the product of recording a particular refresh and pwm at a certain fps of recording. Do TVs flicker when shown on a TV program? So they give you a headache?

It’s difficult to judge based on a store demo. I find that biases such as environment can help prevent headaches which will come on eventually. I.e. I took my iPhone 13 with me to a coffee shop and didn’t stare at the display that day until after I started drinking coffee, which for the most part prevented issues.

I was surprised to learn that many TV’s do flicker. A plasma usually flickers at a rate around or above 10,000Hz—my Pioneer KURO has caused me zero issues and still looks significantly better than most TV’s produced today.

On the other hand even some modern Samsung LCD TV’s do flicker at 960Hz, which I’ve found does potentially cause headaches for me in combination with using an OLED phone. I’m not sure that I’d have issues with it if it wasn’t for the OLED iPhone already causing headaches.

Bad news / bad news - iPhone 13 Mini has been causing more tension headaches than it did the first time around, and the display isn’t the same perfect panel with beautifully pure white and vibrant colors. I may have muddied the waters with iPhone 13, although I can’t say that I had a perfect experience to begin with.

Maybe there are two OLED panel manufacturers for iPhone 13 Mini?

I don’t want to be one of those people on here exchanging a phone 28 times over relatively insignificant issues in pursuit of that initial super punchy, color-accurate, gorgeous OLED calibration — especially since it doesn’t mean I’d have no tension headaches once I do. At the same time I don’t feel the same attachment to this iPhone 13 Mini as I did to my first iPhone. I may be better off cutting my losses and holding off for iPhone SE third-generation. I will however be purchasing a 14” Mini-LED MacBook Pro soon.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I don’t want to be one of those people on here exchanging a phone 28 times over relatively insignificant issues in pursuit of that initial super punchy, color-accurate, gorgeous OLED calibration — especially since it doesn’t mean I’d have no tension headaches once I do. At the same time I don’t feel the same attachment to this iPhone 13 Mini as I did to my first iPhone. I may be better off cutting my losses and holding off for iPhone SE third-generation. I will however be purchasing a 14” Mini-LED MacBook Pro soon.

Best of luck with the MBP 14"

Notebookcheck:

"we can detect constant PWM flickering at all brightness levels. The frequency is very high and should not be an issue for the majority of users, but you will not be very happy with the screen if you are very sensitive to flickering. By the way, we can also detect the PWM at the maximum HDR brightness. The response times are also pretty slow, but the constant PWM flickering makes it tricky to determine the exact values."

 

[MICHAELSD]

Best of luck with the MBP 14"

Notebookcheck:
"we can detect constant PWM flickering at all brightness levels. The frequency is very high and should not be an issue for the majority of users, but you will not be very happy with the screen if you are very sensitive to flickering. By the way, we can also detect the PWM at the maximum HDR brightness. The response times are also pretty slow, but the constant PWM flickering makes it tricky to determine the exact values."

Notebookcheck summaries seem to get lost in translation. They’ve also referred to some iPhone models as having DC dimming and unlikely to cause issues for most users.

I do think I should wait until I go back to a LCD iPhone if my headaches don’t dissipate since otherwise that could bias my experience. I doubt a ~ 12,000Hz rate would cause issues but at the same time I didn’t think this would happen when Apple switched to OLED on iPhone X.

I’m also waiting to see what Apple does with MacBook Air when it transitions to the M2 chip next month. It seems to be the ideal computer to transport to coffee shops and school. The Air LCD does have an extremely high PWM rate at under 50% brightness.

At the same time I’m a display enthusiast and would likely feel that upgrading to the Pro for the Mini-LED display, which frankly won’t make a huge difference when placed side-by-side for most users, is worth every penny.

 

[kargurin]

My experience has been I can usually tell right away if a phone will be problematic. All Google phones, One Plus, LG, S21 Ultra, the latest iPhone took a bit longer. I look at the screen and there is a swimming, defocused effect and I know then it's a no go. This Ultra 22 may still not work for me but I haven't tossed it out of consideration immediately like so many phones.

 

[now i see it]

I can usually tell right away if a phone will be problematic

Same here. In less than a minute staring at a new screen, I can tell right away if it’s going to bug me or not.

 

[majkom]

LG OLED C1 gave me crazy headaches

Do you have BFI on? Turn it off if so.

 

[1369281]

I was surprised to learn that many TV’s do flicker. A plasma usually flickers at a rate around or above 10,000Hz—my Pioneer KURO has caused me zero issues and still looks significantly better than most TV’s produced today.

Shout-out for the Pioneer Kuro reference! I loved my Kuro. I had the very last generation (KRP-500M). Those were the days. (Thanks to D-Nice as AVSForum for his detailed calibration settings).

This TV never gave me eye strain either, but it sure could heat up a room quickly!

 

[majkom]

tested s22 ultra, nice display, man, I just wish any respected flagship would have non pwm screen.. being stuck on ip11 sucks, buying ne se with odl camera and design sucks! would probably even switch to android if any flagship would be pwm free...

 

[now i see it]

There’s several Android phones that have 1080p LCD screens with no PWM.

 

[majkom]

none of them is flaghsip one, and really dont gonna buy some chinese brand.. hope oled is jsut stop gap before some less flickery tech arrives.. as classic LCD screen is probabky dead for mobiles...

 

[Taz Mangus]

none of them is flaghsip one, and really dont gonna buy some chinese brand.. hope oled is jsut stop gap before some less flickery tech arrives.. as classic LCD screen is probabky dead for mobiles...

The next display tech, for the iPhone, will probably be Micro-LED. But that is several years away. If you have not done so send your feedback about your experience with OLED to Apple Feedback. Apple does listen and has made changes based on user feedback.

 

[Taz Mangus]

Shout-out for the Pioneer Kuro reference! I loved my Kuro. I had the very last generation (KRP-500M). Those were the days. (Thanks to D-Nice as AVSForum for his detailed calibration settings).

This TV never gave me eye strain either, but it sure could heat up a room quickly!

I still own a Kuro 5020fd and a 101fd (same as KRP-500M). Still going strong producing amazing images. In 2008, Pioneer demoed their next gen TVs under the Kuro Advanced Project. It was a 9mm thick color gas plasma set. Amazing blacks from what I understand. Unfortunately, Pioneer called it quits before releasing the set.

 

[kargurin]

tested s22 ultra, nice display, man, I just wish any respected flagship would have non pwm screen.. being stuck on ip11 sucks, buying ne se with odl camera and design sucks! would probably even switch to android if any flagship would be pwm free...

So you are saying it gave you a headache? I'm not certain what my situation is. I own a Note 10 +. The pwm numbers say it should be a problem for me. It isn't. Every phone I tried after that was a no go.

 

[jimmy_uk]

tested s22 ultra, nice display, man, I just wish any respected flagship would have non pwm screen.. being stuck on ip11 sucks, buying ne se with odl camera and design sucks! would probably even switch to android if any flagship would be pwm free...

Assuming you still had eye strain/issues using the the S22 Ultra?

 

[majkom]

Hard to say as i tested 13pro max for a minute and so and felt bad, then in few minutes later played with ultra, so it may be only iphone, or both of them… god i am tired with this pwm issue?

 

[majkom]

Thinking about pro max 12 or s22 ultra, can get both 512 for same price.. just can not decide which one to buy and test and hope it wont kill me?

 

[Abiyork]

I posted this on another thread last year.......
Posting it again in hear as today marks the 1 year anniversary of pain.
Also since posting the below post, the drug wore off and pain came back and I'm at the stage again of taking a cocktail of drugs to find something which may help.

--------------------------------

Long time reader of the forum but I dont post much.

I got my Iphone 12 pro on 15th February and as a photographer I loved the cameras.

About 5 days after getting the phone I had a migraine and light headed feeling, I never once corresponded it to the phone as I had come from iphone X and same screen technology.

After 2 weeks I twigged and immediately stopped and used an Iphone 8 i had in a drawer. Massive release in the pain so I sold the 12pro and purchased an 11.

However a deep pain in the top of my head never went away, I couldnt work, play with the kids etc, totally debilitating........ (and this is where the fun 'or not' began)

My GP gave me migraine talets, didnt touch it.
He tried beta blockers, often used for migraines, didnt touch it.
Bloods taken, MRI done to rule out anything serious, he mentioned tumours, bleeds etc.

I sought advice myself from a group called OUCH (Organisation Understanding Cluster Headaches) and they diagnosed me with a condition called Hermicrania over the phone but said I would need professional diagnosis. I had to stamp my feet with my GP to be referred to a Neurologist that specialised in headache conditions. Due to the current NHS and COVID waiting times were 13months.

I eventually paid £300 private for a 10minute appointment where I was correctly diagnosed with NDPH (a condition which can be triggered by a trauma or exposure to repetitive eye strain etc) and told one of four prescriptions could work before having botox injections into my scalp every 3 months. I was initially prescribed Topiramate a drug that caused memory loss, depression, really bad anxiety. Luckilly the next prescription worked and i have been pain free 3 weeks but cannot really drink on them. The issue is I am probably on them for the rest of my life as this condition hardly goes into remission.

WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS ANYBODY EXPERIENCING HEADACHES ETC, STOP AS QUICK AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

I appreciate this doesnt effect a large amount of people but if this can save just one person from what I have had to go through it will have done some good.

This last 6 months has been hell, I remember reading all the same comments on the Iphone X and thinking everyone was just being soft and imagining it. I hadnt been to the GP at all in the last 3 years, in the last 6 months I have been or called over 50 times.

i am now waiting on the next LCD screen and sticking with my Iphone 11 until then, not holding my breath that will come anytime soon.

Good health to everyone and take care.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I posted this on another thread last year.......
Posting it again in hear as today marks the 1 year anniversary of pain.
Also since posting the below post, the drug wore off and pain came back and I'm at the stage again of taking a cocktail of drugs to find something which may help.

--------------------------------

Long time reader of the forum but I dont post much.

I got my Iphone 12 pro on 15th February and as a photographer I loved the cameras.

About 5 days after getting the phone I had a migraine and light headed feeling, I never once corresponded it to the phone as I had come from iphone X and same screen technology.

After 2 weeks I twigged and immediately stopped and used an Iphone 8 i had in a drawer. Massive release in the pain so I sold the 12pro and purchased an 11.

However a deep pain in the top of my head never went away, I couldnt work, play with the kids etc, totally debilitating........ (and this is where the fun 'or not' began)

My GP gave me migraine talets, didnt touch it.
He tried beta blockers, often used for migraines, didnt touch it.
Bloods taken, MRI done to rule out anything serious, he mentioned tumours, bleeds etc.

I sought advice myself from a group called OUCH (Organisation Understanding Cluster Headaches) and they diagnosed me with a condition called Hermicrania over the phone but said I would need professional diagnosis. I had to stamp my feet with my GP to be referred to a Neurologist that specialised in headache conditions. Due to the current NHS and COVID waiting times were 13months.

I eventually paid £300 private for a 10minute appointment where I was correctly diagnosed with NDPH (a condition which can be triggered by a trauma or exposure to repetitive eye strain etc) and told one of four prescriptions could work before having botox injections into my scalp every 3 months. I was initially prescribed Topiramate a drug that caused memory loss, depression, really bad anxiety. Luckilly the next prescription worked and i have been pain free 3 weeks but cannot really drink on them. The issue is I am probably on them for the rest of my life as this condition hardly goes into remission.

WHAT I AM TRYING TO SAY IS ANYBODY EXPERIENCING HEADACHES ETC, STOP AS QUICK AS YOU POSSIBLY CAN.

I appreciate this doesnt effect a large amount of people but if this can save just one person from what I have had to go through it will have done some good.

This last 6 months has been hell, I remember reading all the same comments on the Iphone X and thinking everyone was just being soft and imagining it. I hadnt been to the GP at all in the last 3 years, in the last 6 months I have been or called over 50 times.

i am now waiting on the next LCD screen and sticking with my Iphone 11 until then, not holding my breath that will come anytime soon.

Good health to everyone and take care.

It does make me wonder. The only reason I’m still entertaining this phone is that since millions of people can apparently use it without issue, then it must not cause a long-term problem right?

That being said I am definitely still experiencing light migraines, or throbbing behind the eye, with iPhone 13 Mini during the day. My eyes felt like they were getting punched by a lightweight boxer when I had the standard iPhone 13. Not quite Mike Tyson like iPhone X but still concerning.

I find the same experience I had before to remain true: I can use iPhone 13 Mini at night when it enters 60Hz mode with minimal, sometimes negligible, issues. The standard 510Hz flickering during the day is comparatively more perceptible.

Apple still should add a 60Hz PWM-free flickering mode in Accessibility mode that replicates the Apple Watch.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I still own a Kuro 5020fd and a 101fd (same as KRP-500M). Still going strong producing amazing images. In 2008, Pioneer demoed their next gen TVs under the Kuro Avanced Project. It was a 9mm thick color gas plasma set. Amazing blacks from what I understand. Unfortunately, Pioneer called it quits before releasing the set.

Cheers to the KRP-500M. That’s the TV I still use to this day, and it’s incredible that it’s lasted over a decade at this point with no issues while still looking dramatically superior to the vast majority of TV’s.

LG’s OLED TV adds 4K and HDR, although I’m not sold that it would definitively look better for all content. Apparently LG is also rolling out a slightly cheaper Mini LED model: Apple, maybe worth putting Mini LED on some iPhone models?

Even at $4,500+ producing these high-end, low-volume plasma TV’s wasn’t sustainable. We were lucky enough that they offered the KRP monitors as a 9.5G TV with their latest tech at a relative discount.

Shout-out for the Pioneer Kuro reference! I loved my Kuro. I had the very last generation (KRP-500M). Those were the days. (Thanks to D-Nice as AVSForum for his detailed calibration settings).

This TV never gave me eye strain either, but it sure could heat up a room quickly!

I still have mine. Out-of-the-box settings are lacking but with a proper calibration, which I did manually on the warmest settings in color space 1 with Dynamic Range Extension set to High although I have calibration settings memorized for all the DRE options including set to off, the picture quality can be ridiculously incredible. I do remember D-Nice and some users at AVSForum still swear by their KRP-500M, but I haven’t tried his calibration settings as panel variance in color occurs in TV’s as well due to a number of factors.

DRE looks like a filter of sorts when switching back and forth but there is appeal in having a vibrant image on a TV with practically infinite contrast. I’ve tried switching it off with inspiration from the more natural iPhone OLED but usually end up resorting back to the highest setting, which I wouldn’t use on a LCD as it makes the image appear overly exaggerated.

The only issue I have with the TV, which is technically a monitor, is that there’s no passthrough for audio or even built-in speakers so I’ll have to get a HDMI device with optical audio out to use any modern products. I’ve been using a headset with my Xbox Series X, partly out of concern that any solutions will degrade picture/audio quality.

I’ve been finding myself frequently at coffee shops as of late otherwise I would have purchased a Mini LED MacBook Pro by now. MacBook Air with the M2 may be the better buy for versatility predominantly as a blogger, so I’ll try to hold off as much as the display enthusiast in me wants the Mini LED display.

 

[kargurin]

My plasma of that era was the Panasonic Viera, 50 inches. Wonderful TV, just got to be too small by current standards so I bought a 65" Sony 930e LCD a few years ago. The Viera was worth only a $100 so I gave it away. Was considering the LG OLEDs before I purchased the Sony but didn't want to deal with the burn in questions.

I'm still examining the S22 Ultras visiting demos at various stores. There are some excellent pre order promo deals so it is advantageous to pre order. But, still not convinced this will work. At least it is not an immediate no go when I examine them.

 

[Jclok]

LG OLED C1 gave me crazy headaches

Same. I returned the LG CX OLED last year. I couldn’t enjoy it at all.