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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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I prefer a warmer tint as well. It’s irritating to no end that TV’s out of the box usually come with a cool bluish tint, artificial motion processing, and dynamic contrast pushed all the way up. I suppose they’re trying to capture the store demo picture, but many consumers will leave it like this whereas it’s possible for it to look much better with more natural settings. I have my Pioneer KURO calibrated with the warmest color temperature. It’s incredible how much of a difference proper calibration can make. In fact, iPhone 13 inspired me to turn off the Dynamic Range Extension and re-calibrate — although I would quite like to have Dolby Vision.
Thankfully Apple’s displays have been skewing warmer throughout the years. They only recently started to pull back on iPhone 13 apparently.
I’ve found is that if I use iPhone 13 Mini then use iPhone 13 afterwards I’m more likely to get headaches, or vice versa as if my brain had adjusted to the specific rate. I’m definitely still sensitive to it, but I’m finding with this new display engine it’s more possible for me to adjust to the rate. I kept iPhone X for months trying different settings on and off and I didn’t adjust to that display.
Notebookcheck is probably correct in their measurements that iPhone 13, iPhone 13 Mini, and iPhone 13 Pro have different rates and amplitudes. iPhone 13 is likely the best of the three as far as eye strain and it may be better yet if I put iPhone 13 Mini aside and tested it for a few days by itself. I suppose I could adjust to liking any iPhone after an adjustment period but I still have a fondness for the Mini.
I’ve definitely done what I can in the past. At this point I’m just going to assume they still read this thread and our feedback isn’t falling on deaf ears.
Edit: It may not be a bad idea regardless.
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I feel like I made a mistake by returning iPhone 13 Mini since I already miss it. I’m not enjoying iPhone 13 nearly as much. All of the positive benefits I attributed to iPhone 13 Mini seem to not apply to the same extent, and my headaches after a few days have become worse with iPhone 13 in comparison. I was hoping that I’d enjoy it more and experience less headaches.
That being said, I did still experience headaches with iPhone 13 Mini otherwise I would have traded in my iPhone SE sooner and wouldn’t have even entertained the thought of switching to iPhone 13. I’m considering buying it again and this time purchasing accessories and completing the trade-in, but I’m not sure that’s the best idea for my health.
Regardless I will definitely be returning iPhone 13 as I’m honestly not enjoying it and still experiencing persistent tension headaches and eye strain.
That being said, I did still experience headaches with iPhone 13 Mini otherwise I would have traded in my iPhone SE sooner and wouldn’t have even entertained the thought of switching to iPhone 13. I’m considering buying it again and this time purchasing accessories and completing the trade-in, but I’m not sure that’s the best idea for my health.
Regardless I will definitely be returning iPhone 13 as I’m honestly not enjoying it and still experiencing persistent tension headaches and eye strain.
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Some interesting info in this article:
There is some detail regarding the differences between the 12PM and 13PM for example:
"Many netizens on the Internet have also responded that after switching to an iPhone 13, the screen is more likely to cause eye fatigue or soreness than the iPhone 12 or the old iPhone for a long time. Why? First understand the screen dimming frequency of two iPhone models:
iPhone 13 Pro / Max to PWM dimming frequency is 480Hz
The PWM dimming frequency of iPhone 12 Pro/Max is 240Hz
In principle, the higher the dimming frequency, the more comfortable the eyes will look, right? This was tested by Navis-MDT using professional instruments. At the same time, he also shared the comparison of the screen brightness waveforms of iPhone 13 Pro Max and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The results of each different brightness data are summarized as follows:
High brightness: The “DC-like dimming” waveform of the iPhone 12 Pro Max is very stable, and the screen flickering is almost invisible. On the contrary, the iPhone 13 Pro Max uses global PWM dimming, with little fluctuation in the waveform, high duty cycle, and The flicker is small, and the stroboscopic problem can be basically ignored.
40% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max also relies on high-brightness DC dimming, the waveform is still stable, and you will not feel too obvious stroboscopic problems. On the contrary, iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to have obvious stroboscopic fluctuations.
19% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max switched from DC-like dimming mode to low-frequency PWM dimming 240Hz mode, the waveform also began to show obvious flicker; iPhone 13 Pro Max began to lose control, and severe flicker appeared early.
Lowest brightness (under no light source environment): The iPhone 12 Pro Max’s waveform is actually smoother than that of the iPhone 13 Pro Max, and the iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to appear obvious momentary bumps, which also makes the screen flicker index more obvious changes.
From the above results, the PWM dimming of the iPhone 13 Pro Max is not as good as that of the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Instead, it is confirmed that the screen of the iPhone 13 Pro Max becomes darker in the dark environment."
Will iPhone 13 PWM strobe hurt your eyes?Comprehensive and in-depth understanding of the reasons and 7 solutions
There is some detail regarding the differences between the 12PM and 13PM for example:
"Many netizens on the Internet have also responded that after switching to an iPhone 13, the screen is more likely to cause eye fatigue or soreness than the iPhone 12 or the old iPhone for a long time. Why? First understand the screen dimming frequency of two iPhone models:
iPhone 13 Pro / Max to PWM dimming frequency is 480Hz
The PWM dimming frequency of iPhone 12 Pro/Max is 240Hz
In principle, the higher the dimming frequency, the more comfortable the eyes will look, right? This was tested by Navis-MDT using professional instruments. At the same time, he also shared the comparison of the screen brightness waveforms of iPhone 13 Pro Max and iPhone 12 Pro Max. The results of each different brightness data are summarized as follows:
High brightness: The “DC-like dimming” waveform of the iPhone 12 Pro Max is very stable, and the screen flickering is almost invisible. On the contrary, the iPhone 13 Pro Max uses global PWM dimming, with little fluctuation in the waveform, high duty cycle, and The flicker is small, and the stroboscopic problem can be basically ignored.
40% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max also relies on high-brightness DC dimming, the waveform is still stable, and you will not feel too obvious stroboscopic problems. On the contrary, iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to have obvious stroboscopic fluctuations.
19% brightness: iPhone 12 Pro Max switched from DC-like dimming mode to low-frequency PWM dimming 240Hz mode, the waveform also began to show obvious flicker; iPhone 13 Pro Max began to lose control, and severe flicker appeared early.
Lowest brightness (under no light source environment): The iPhone 12 Pro Max’s waveform is actually smoother than that of the iPhone 13 Pro Max, and the iPhone 13 Pro Max starts to appear obvious momentary bumps, which also makes the screen flicker index more obvious changes.
From the above results, the PWM dimming of the iPhone 13 Pro Max is not as good as that of the iPhone 12 Pro Max. Instead, it is confirmed that the screen of the iPhone 13 Pro Max becomes darker in the dark environment."
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iPhone 13 Pro Max took a step backwards for some odd reason. The rest of the lineup has improved rates and varyingly improved amplitudes.
Well finally had the eye test and my prescription is the same. They found I have a lazy right eye so will need to attend a hospital appointment to see if they can prescribe a specific lens I can have fitted to my reading glasses. I’ve been told not to use my reading glasses for now. I did mention about changing phones and the variable refresh rate of the screen, and issues I was having at the time, but was told this was unlikely to be an issue as a whole. Make of that what you will. Will certainly mention it again when I see the optometrist at the hospital.
I have a bit of a dilemma in that I really don’t want to go back to the iPhone SE I’ve been using, while at the same time iPhone 13 Mini was the perfect phone for me at this point in my life where I’m trying to minimize phone usage and still enjoy having the latest and greatest technology.
I’ve already made up my mind on returning iPhone 13 so I may give iPhone 13 Mini one more go and if it doesn’t work out I’ll purchase the third-generation iPhone SE in good faith for having utilized Apple Store resources.
I’m also going to upgrade my MacBook Pro this year to either the 14” M1 Pro model or even possibly a MacBook Air. I’m leaning towards the former, which has a gorgeous Mini-LED display. It utilizes PWM at a high rate of 13800Hz so it’s unlikely to bother me, which makes it obvious that Apple’s display team is well aware that low rates of 240Hz-610Hz can affect sensitive users.
I’ve already made up my mind on returning iPhone 13 so I may give iPhone 13 Mini one more go and if it doesn’t work out I’ll purchase the third-generation iPhone SE in good faith for having utilized Apple Store resources.
I’m also going to upgrade my MacBook Pro this year to either the 14” M1 Pro model or even possibly a MacBook Air. I’m leaning towards the former, which has a gorgeous Mini-LED display. It utilizes PWM at a high rate of 13800Hz so it’s unlikely to bother me, which makes it obvious that Apple’s display team is well aware that low rates of 240Hz-610Hz can affect sensitive users.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but since the introduction of Intel processors, MacBook Pro displays have always used extremely high frequency PWM. My 2016 15-inch MacBook Pro does, anyway. In other words, I would not use this as evidence that Apple's display team is aware or even cares about this issue.
I think they are just handed display technology and they integrate it to their devices.
Glad to see everyone here is still fighting the good fight! Looking forward to iPhone SE 5G!
For whatever reason, they’ll never “go back” to using LCD displays in their fanciest iPhones, so we’re stuck with OLED yuck until an entirely new display tech (that hopefully doesn’t flicker) comes along.
It’s really annoying having a phone that I am still paying off that I am too worried to use in my iPhone 13 Pro.
I love the idea of OLED. I was one of the most vocal advocates of the technology as in theory it can produce a virtually perfect image.
At the same time the PWM implementation is still putting a lot of strain on our brain. I find that I can only fully enjoy the display of iPhone 13 after i.e. a workout and a cup or two of coffee as otherwise I still get the typical eye strain symptoms which include my eyes not wanting to fully focus on the display.
Perhaps due to the smaller size of iPhone 13 Mini my eyes were more likely to focus properly, but that phone still caused headaches as much as I admittedly loved it.
Where does that leave us? Apple could switch to Mini-LED as a PWM rate above 10,000Hz is unlikely to bother sensitive users. Apple’s LCD’s have typically had rates above 100,000Hz if they weren’t completely PWM-free which of course is imperceptible to basically everyone.
Ultimately they’re unlikely to switch display technologies unless a superior technology comes along that produces a better image than OLED. Mini-LED comes close but OLED is still superior on paper. I’m not sure if there would be any cost savings involved with Mini-LED.
I may try iPhone 13 Mini one more time, although even l’ll admit the most likely outcome may be a third-generation iPhone SE even if it will likely feel antiquated in comparison. I may nonetheless purchase a new iPad Air as well as a Mini-LED MacBook Pro to ease my disappointment.
At the same time the PWM implementation is still putting a lot of strain on our brain. I find that I can only fully enjoy the display of iPhone 13 after i.e. a workout and a cup or two of coffee as otherwise I still get the typical eye strain symptoms which include my eyes not wanting to fully focus on the display.
Perhaps due to the smaller size of iPhone 13 Mini my eyes were more likely to focus properly, but that phone still caused headaches as much as I admittedly loved it.
Where does that leave us? Apple could switch to Mini-LED as a PWM rate above 10,000Hz is unlikely to bother sensitive users. Apple’s LCD’s have typically had rates above 100,000Hz if they weren’t completely PWM-free which of course is imperceptible to basically everyone.
Ultimately they’re unlikely to switch display technologies unless a superior technology comes along that produces a better image than OLED. Mini-LED comes close but OLED is still superior on paper. I’m not sure if there would be any cost savings involved with Mini-LED.
I may try iPhone 13 Mini one more time, although even l’ll admit the most likely outcome may be a third-generation iPhone SE even if it will likely feel antiquated in comparison. I may nonetheless purchase a new iPad Air as well as a Mini-LED MacBook Pro to ease my disappointment.
I`m waiting how Samsung will implement PWM in the S22 serie. After that i will decide if i try the iphone 13 or the S22/Ultra with a TPU screen protector. I have found i german manufacturer that make such anti glare screen protector for both series and i will see if this could help.
Rumors say that Samsung could upgrade his softwaresupport up to 4 Majorupdates what would be really nice. When Samsung Display would also make progress on the PWM implemention so that also Apple would benefit from this.
Rumors say that Samsung could upgrade his softwaresupport up to 4 Majorupdates what would be really nice. When Samsung Display would also make progress on the PWM implemention so that also Apple would benefit from this.
I am also very curious about the s22 screen
I didn't try the s21 ultra, when i look at the graph of the pwm at notebookcheck it seems to be a very stable frequency so might be usable for us. Can you share the manufacturer of the screen protectors, i am looking for such a protector to try with an 13.
@dimitricook: Here in german because they have different european language but it seems not english:
www.smart-engineered.com
In the description they say it is a tpu screen protecto. So it’s not tempered glass.
2x se® 3D Schutzfolie (entspiegelt) Apple iPhone 13 / 13 Pro
Unsere 3D Schutzfolie von se® ist der ultimative Displayschutz für Ihr Displayglas. Im Vergleich zu herkömmlichen Screen Protector Produkten und Produktvarianten aus sog. Panzerglas, Panzerglasfolie oder auch Schutzglas unterschiedlichster Hersteller werden die Funktionen des Geräts durch die...
In the description they say it is a tpu screen protecto. So it’s not tempered glass.
Did anyone try the green type of screen protectors?
They seem to be better at filtering some sorts of light in comparison to the anti blue light filters?
They seem to be better at filtering some sorts of light in comparison to the anti blue light filters?
I'm using a Note 10+ at the moment, the last phone I've been able to use without headaches. The S22 Ultra is supposed to be a successor to the last Note so I'll be looking at that phone when I can get a hands on demo when it appears at the major retailers. The S21 Ultra was a no go for me.I am also very curious about the s22 screen
Can you share the manufacturer of the screen protectors, i am looking for such a protector to try with an 13.
I wanted to try to stay out of this thread for as long as possible since I feel like that’s one of the barometers for whether I could realistically keep an iPhone with PWM: if I find myself wanting to post in this thread due to eye strain symptoms, then I would likely be on here every day if I kept it which means that I’m still experiencing headaches.
Nonetheless I did purchase iPhone 13 Mini again. I found myself coming to the end of the return window on iPhone 13, and I had no desire to put the SIM card back in my old iPhone SE. Worst case scenario, as much as I hate returning numerous phones this generation this could hold me over until the third-generation iPhone SE is released.
On the plus side I do experience comparatively less headaches with iPhone 13 Mini as I found myself experiencing a burning scalp headache at times the day after using iPhone 13, unfortunately.
I’m re-adjusting to iPhone 13 Mini at the moment. I had a feeling this would happen and it’s disappointing, but the display quality is noticeably different than my first iPhone 13 Mini. Colors aren’t quite as vibrant, and contrast isn’t the same eye-popping experience that made it a pleasure to look at. One of the reasons I didn’t want to return my first iPhone 13 Mini was due to how perfect the display was. I was skeptical that I’d get as lucky the second time, although I did visit an Apple Store and compare phones which alleviated my concern at the time. iPhone 13 Mini is generally more vibrant and punchy than iPhone 13 at the same brightness level, and iPhone 13 Pro is between the two. It’s still a fantastic display and most users wouldn’t notice the difference, doubly so if they don’t test multiple phones.
I have found that there is definitely a degree of panel variance, so I’m curious if there are multiple OLED manufacturers. This was an issue that got me a response from the Steve Jobs email back in the day due to panel variance on MacBook Pro’s in an Apple Store. It may not matter quite as much if I’m not able to keep it, and I do regret to an extent returning my first iPhone 13 Mini. Again, this would be much simpler if we didn’t get headaches and have to return these phones while at the same time I’d probably be on iPhone 13 Pro Max if I wasn’t sensitive or if PWM didn’t exist so it is cool to be able to test multiple iPhone models with poise and purpose.
Nonetheless I did purchase iPhone 13 Mini again. I found myself coming to the end of the return window on iPhone 13, and I had no desire to put the SIM card back in my old iPhone SE. Worst case scenario, as much as I hate returning numerous phones this generation this could hold me over until the third-generation iPhone SE is released.
On the plus side I do experience comparatively less headaches with iPhone 13 Mini as I found myself experiencing a burning scalp headache at times the day after using iPhone 13, unfortunately.
I’m re-adjusting to iPhone 13 Mini at the moment. I had a feeling this would happen and it’s disappointing, but the display quality is noticeably different than my first iPhone 13 Mini. Colors aren’t quite as vibrant, and contrast isn’t the same eye-popping experience that made it a pleasure to look at. One of the reasons I didn’t want to return my first iPhone 13 Mini was due to how perfect the display was. I was skeptical that I’d get as lucky the second time, although I did visit an Apple Store and compare phones which alleviated my concern at the time. iPhone 13 Mini is generally more vibrant and punchy than iPhone 13 at the same brightness level, and iPhone 13 Pro is between the two. It’s still a fantastic display and most users wouldn’t notice the difference, doubly so if they don’t test multiple phones.
I have found that there is definitely a degree of panel variance, so I’m curious if there are multiple OLED manufacturers. This was an issue that got me a response from the Steve Jobs email back in the day due to panel variance on MacBook Pro’s in an Apple Store. It may not matter quite as much if I’m not able to keep it, and I do regret to an extent returning my first iPhone 13 Mini. Again, this would be much simpler if we didn’t get headaches and have to return these phones while at the same time I’d probably be on iPhone 13 Pro Max if I wasn’t sensitive or if PWM didn’t exist so it is cool to be able to test multiple iPhone models with poise and purpose.
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The s22 Ultra is being demoed at Costco. Spent about 10 minutes today with no headaches. It has a distinctly different looking screen than the s21 to my eyes. Will spend more time with it the next couple weeks. I really don’t care about platform. Whether its android or Apple just as long as I can comfortably use the screen.
Sadly Samsung doesn‘t announced improvements for pwm implemention. But maybe they have make things better but not promote this. This would be so nice because the new iPhone Pro Modells could also benefit from this. I will also look in the store for the S22 and Ultra and see how my eyes will react.
Good to hear that! I will go to the store in 10 min and check the ultra here as well.
Been in store to check out the 22ultra, 22 and 22plus. Did some slo-mo testing and there is a serious flickering present in all devices. It seemed to me that the 22 ultra was the best of the 3 with the most stable flicker, but i didn't test it good enough to draw conclusions.
Besides the flickering i must say they are super nice phones!! The 22 and 22 plus are super compact phones and feel very premium in the hand, the display and camera look perfect. The 22 ultra is next level, perfect screen and super zoom camera.
After 20 minutes of playing with the 3 devices i go a serieus headache now, similair to other pwm devices, but, but very important to notice, this electronics shops always gives me terrible headache because of their flickering lights all ove the place and all the flickering displays etc..
I am really going to try the 22 and the 22ultra, i have to figure out at home if i can use them or not
Besides the flickering i must say they are super nice phones!! The 22 and 22 plus are super compact phones and feel very premium in the hand, the display and camera look perfect. The 22 ultra is next level, perfect screen and super zoom camera.
After 20 minutes of playing with the 3 devices i go a serieus headache now, similair to other pwm devices, but, but very important to notice, this electronics shops always gives me terrible headache because of their flickering lights all ove the place and all the flickering displays etc..
I am really going to try the 22 and the 22ultra, i have to figure out at home if i can use them or not