Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[john g.]

It's so confusing.

Some folks do better with the regular 14, some with the 14 pro, and some with the pro max.

And others had great luck with the 13 series.

I wonder if another variable that's out there is "screen lottery.'

 

[jimmy_uk]

I think I'm the only one who is ( super ) sensitive

I'm right there with you. 🤝

 

[sorgo †]

SE delivered ✔️ now just gotta finish up with this work day …

 

[jimmy_uk]

It's so confusing.

Some folks to better with the regular 14 some with the 14 pro and some with the pro max. And others had great luck with the 13 series. I wonder if another variable that's out there is "screen lottery.'

Yes there most definitely will be variance from screen to screen but we as individuals are the biggest variable. Genes, chemistry, visual eye strength and eyeball shape etc. There is no magic device still other than the old LCD iPhones. 😞

 

[Chrispy]

It's so confusing.

Some folks to better with the regular 14 some with the 14 pro and some with the pro max. And others had great luck with the 13 series. I wonder if another variable that's out there is "screen lottery.'

Indeed, very confusing. We are each different in little ways that makes any specific thing hard to pin down exactly. It also makes us nightmare customers for Apple. As I mentioned before, I've bought and returned at least two iPhones from every generation since the 11. I'm doing pretty well this time so far by only returning one, haha. Even when Apple eventually sells me a phone that I keep, they still lost money on me when you factor in all the returns over the years.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Hmmm. I returned a 14PM after four days (because of the size) and exchanged it for a 14P. My whole body deflates at the thought of having to go exchange the 14P for a 14PM, but I keep hearing people say the 14PM is doing better for them.

Also at about midnight, I started considering the 13 mini.

Honestly, at this point, I can't tell anything anymore. I'm tired of trying phones. Actually, part of me would love to have a whole bunch of phones and just switch them out--but that's just too ridiculous. Now I'm having that overwhelmed reaction of "I just want to choose one phone and be done!" I'm about to just take the 14P back and just use my 11 and be done with it.

My boyfriend suggested that I needed to stay off the forums and screens in general today (because it's a day off for me) to give myself a rest. Then he asked what I had planned to do with my day, "I was gonna check the forums and maybe go to the Apple Store."

Help me.

Sorry you've got in a spin with all the possible options. But when you know, you know. And when an iPhone can make you feel off just call it a day with that model, I genuinely don't think anyone can get used to the feeling of wrong you might feel.

Ive also been in the spin many time with earphones, ipads, wrist watches. I always eye up several models then settle on one. But while I'm trialing the purchase I start to note the things I don't like and slowly convincing myself that I should have purchased the other option. "Maybe it's better". So the return and exchange starts, often it's not better - just different, but everytime I go with my gut and if I have doubts I just get the refund. Usually I end up with nothing because I'm so damn fussy and end up thinking the object in my hand has cost more than its actually worth!

There is no general consensus on which model is best and the never will be because we are all individuals with separate experience. While some traction started with the 14 non pro being the one, this was quickly lost after people (me included) used it for a few days. It's good to read some have made it out of the pit and have devices that work for them, although by the sound of things it's still at a cost of some slight discomfort.

Is the 14 Pro working for you?

 

[GlenK]

It even crossed my mind to buy an iPad mini and use if for a phone!!! lol!! Just getting so tired of this!!

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I’m BACK!! Lol kinda. My 11 hasn’t felt like the relief I expected from the 14PM. I think about that, and the fact that I was returning that phone no matter what (I bought outright before seeing the Verizon $800 trade in for my old XR).

Here’s the catch. The wife needs to replace her 8 and we are going to Verizon for her to see the 13 mini and newest SE. I honestly have zero idea which she’ll get. Literal 50/50. So, if she gets the SE I’m keeping my freshly repaired 11 another year. If she gets the 13 Mini, I’m getting the 14PM and keeping it.

No rhyme or reason to this. No phone envy. Just felt like an easy enough way to make a decision. I’m curious how this plays out.

 

[happy orchard]

I’m BACK!! Lol kinda. My 11 hasn’t felt like the relief I expected from the 14PM. I think about that, and the fact that I was returning that phone no matter what (I bought outright before seeing the Verizon $800 trade in for my old XR).

Here’s the catch. The wife needs to replace her 8 and we are going to Verizon for her to see the 13 mini and newest SE. I honestly have zero idea which she’ll get. Literal 50/50. So, if she gets the SE I’m keeping my freshly repaired 11 another year. If she gets the 13 Mini, I’m getting the 14PM and keeping it.

No rhyme or reason to this. No phone envy. Just felt like an easy enough way to make a decision. I’m curious how this plays out.

How are her choices affecting your choices?

 

[happy orchard]

If you’re measurably sensitive to PWM, I would strongly suggest NOT going with the 13 mini. As nice as it is in many ways, the flickering screen is still very much there and a problem for those of us with this sensitivity. In fact I’m about to switch to a third-gen SE from a 13 mini because of it.

Thank you. That’s actually very helpful.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Any of us sensitive folk tried the 13 mini? Someone asked me about it, and I realized I'd never even tried it. How did it go for those of you who tried it?

As @john g. pointed out, the 13 Mini was and remains as my favorite iPhone in recent years. I still think that it has perhaps the most vibrant, contrasty, sharp OLED display that Apple has put on any iPhone and the form factor is amazing. I unfortunately had PWM issues including persistent headaches that would make it impractical for me to keep long-term. Surprisingly iPhone 14 Pro Max has been much better in that regard, even better than the 14" MacBook Pro that's making the back of my eyes feel like they're being punched by a lightweight boxer.

iPhone 14 Pro Max presents a conundrum in that it still has the potential to cause headaches and migraines, but it also has the potential to be usable. I think the more I try to force myself to use it as I would any normal iPhone by acting like it has no flickering the more issues it presents, and my eyes still don't love focusing fully on a flickering display.

But I don't think this has any negative bearing on us, or that it's a handicap or deficiency. Quite the opposite. We're the most perceptible group of users, and our nervous systems are picking up on the constant flickering that a majority of people are able to ignore. Almost like a relative superpower, albeit one that's causing eye strain and issues.

 

[happy orchard]

Sorry you've got in a spin with all the possible options. But when you know, you know. And when an iPhone can make you feel off just call it a day with that model, I genuinely don't think anyone can get used to the feeling of wrong you might feel.

Ive also been in the spin many time with earphones, ipads, wrist watches. I always eye up several models then settle on one. But while I'm trialing the purchase I start to note the things I don't like and slowly convincing myself that I should have purchased the other option. "Maybe it's better". So the return and exchange starts, often it's not better - just different, but everytime I go with my gut and if I have doubts I just get the refund. Usually I end up with nothing because I'm so damn fussy and end up thinking the object in my hand has cost more than its actually worth!

There is no general consensus on which model is best and the never will be because we are all individuals with separate experience. While some traction started with the 14 non pro being the one, this was quickly lost after people (me included) used it for a few days. It's good to read some have made it out of the pit and have devices that work for them, although by the sound of things it's still at a cost of some slight discomfort.

Is the 14 Pro working for you?

I share your spin experience, including sometimes looking at a device and thinking no matter how much money I spent, I spent way too much life on this thing.

In my case, I don’t know that I “know when you know”.

I looked back at my iPhone history:
iPhone X - returned within a few days, knew nothing about PWM just that the phone bothered me. Bought 8+
XS - kept for 6 months before selling online. Bought XR
11PM - kept 8 months before selling online. Bought 11
12PM - kept 9 months before selling online. Bought 11

Each time, I sold it because I just didn’t want to deal with OLED anymore, but apparently I put up with it for longer times.

Guess my thing right now is that I’m about to go on a bit of holiday soon and having the new iPhone with telephoto and bright screen (and other upgrade) will be REALLY helpful. But I’m concerned that when dark or when dim, the 11 will be much better.

Because of my schedule, if I return this 14P it needs to be today or tomorrow, and because of supply, I’ll likely not find another one before my trip if I change my mind.

And all this sensitivity and indécision leads to self-loathing and exhaustion.

TMI, but I share in case it helps anybody point me towards the yellow-bricked road…

 

[happy orchard]

As @john g. pointed out, the 13 Mini was and remains as my favorite iPhone in recent years. I still think that it has perhaps the most vibrant, contrasty, sharp OLED display that Apple has put on any iPhone and the form factor is amazing. I unfortunately had PWM issues including persistent headaches that would make it impractical for me to keep long-term. Surprisingly iPhone 14 Pro Max has been much better in that regard, even better than the 14" MacBook Pro that's making the back of my eyes feel like they're being punched by a lightweight boxer.

iPhone 14 Pro Max presents a conundrum in that it still has the potential to cause headaches and migraines, but it also has the potential to be usable. I think the more I try to force myself to use it as I would any normal iPhone by acting like it has no flickering the more issues it presents, and my eyes still don't love focusing fully on a flickering display.

But I don't think this has any negative bearing on us, or that it's a handicap or deficiency. Quite the opposite. We're the most perceptible group of users, and our nervous systems are picking up on the constant flickering that a majority of people are able to ignore. Almost like a relative superpower, albeit one that's causing eye strain and issues.

I’m going to comment on just one small bit of what you said, about the superpower. I’ve been watching the Umbrella Academy and thinking “They have weird powers. I could be one of them.”

 

[Proteinaceous]

Now just hoping for a 3rd gen SE in the XR/11 form factor.

This is the way…

…for the majority of us, I’m afraid.

Sorry to be a downer. As corny as it sounds, I feel a bit of a kinship in this thread. I have been posting here since this thread was a few days old and I think I’ve read every single post. You are all my PWM brothers and sisters and I just feel bad seeing the same frustrations each year. I see a lot of hope-fueled justification for keeping a phone, knowing deep down that it is still causing discomfort, even if it may be mild. I have come to the conclusion that unless the phone is giving me zero discomfort — truly zero discomfort — then it’s just not worth it to spend ~$1,000 on a device that does this. I will ultimately resent the decision and/or go back to something more comfortable to use. Heck, they could give me the phone for free and I still wouldn’t use it…it’s still not worth it.

Apologies for my rant. I truly appreciate you all for contributing here. Though I don’t wish this upon anyone, it really is nice to know I am not alone.

I look forward to the day that this thread is no longer needed.

 

[Chrispy]

This is the way…

…for the majority of us, I’m afraid.

Sorry to be a downer. As corny as it sounds, I feel a bit of a kinship in this thread. I have been posting here since this thread was a few days old and I think I’ve read every single post. You are all my PWM brothers and sisters and I just feel bad seeing the same frustrations each year. I see a lot of hope-fueled justification for keeping a phone, knowing deep down that it is still causing discomfort, even if it may be mild. I have come to the conclusion that unless the phone is giving me zero discomfort — truly zero discomfort — then it’s just not worth it to spend ~$1,000 on a device that does this. I will ultimately resent the decision and/or go back to something more comfortable to use. Heck, they could give me the phone for free and I still wouldn’t use it…it’s still not worth it.

Apologies for my rant. I truly appreciate you all for contributing here. Though I don’t wish this upon anyone, it really is nice to know I am not alone.

I look forward to the day that this thread is no longer needed.

There's a certain peace that comes with accepting another year of iPhones has come and gone and you aren't going to be part of it. It's sadly just becoming normal at this point. So much so I'm not even going to fight to find a match this year and just keep going with the XR. But I'm thankful the XR and 11 were made, and I'm happy the SE is still around with an LCD. I hold onto hope that means Apple is aware we are out here and they won't ever leave us totally without an option.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I share your spin experience, including sometimes looking at a device and thinking no matter how much money I spent, I spent way too much life on this thing.

In my case, I don’t know that I “know when you know”.

I looked back at my iPhone history:
iPhone X - returned within a few days, knew nothing about PWM just that the phone bothered me. Bought 8+
XS - kept for 6 months before selling online. Bought XR
11PM - kept 8 months before selling online. Bought 11
12PM - kept 9 months before selling online. Bought 11

Each time, I sold it because I just didn’t want to deal with OLED anymore, but apparently I put up with it for longer times.

Guess my thing right now is that I’m about to go on a bit of holiday soon and having the new iPhone with telephoto and bright screen (and other upgrade) will be REALLY helpful. But I’m concerned that when dark or when dim, the 11 will be much better.

Because of my schedule, if I return this 14P it needs to be today or tomorrow, and because of supply, I’ll likely not find another one before my trip if I change my mind.

And all this sensitivity and indécision leads to self-loathing and exhaustion.

TMI, but I share in case it helps anybody point me towards the yellow-bricked road…

Looking at your track record, why not keep the 14 Pro - enjoy your holiday and get those digital memories with the camera. Then in the months to come if your not happy with it you could sell it as you have before. Life is short, have fun with the phone now (if your comfortable enough with it) and worry about it later.

I appreciate the pressure of wanting the right choice now and the closing returns window. It's an option. 🤷‍♂️

The alternative is to bail on OLED.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have to give Apple credit where it’s due: the PWM implementation on iPhone 14 Pro may be the best they’re able to do without negatively impacting color accuracy, burn-in, or battery life. Optimistically it seems like somebody at Apple may be part of this thread, reading every post along with us, but perhaps it’s not a widespread enough issue for Apple’s display team to make this their top priority. Flicker-free OLED is probably on their to-do list.

Frankly, iPhone 14 Pro Max is the first OLED iPhone I could realistically even consider keeping and using long-term. I’m not sure yet whether that’s my best option, or if I should deal with iPhone SE for one more year. But this is still an improved iPhone experience.

 

[Uncohtwo]

I have to give Apple credit where it’s due: the PWM implementation on iPhone 14 Pro may be the best they’re able to do without negatively impacting color accuracy, burn-in, or battery life. Optimistically it seems like somebody at Apple may be part of this thread, reading every post along with us, but perhaps it’s not a widespread enough issue for Apple’s display team to make this their top priority. Flicker-free OLED is probably on their to-do list.

Frankly, iPhone 14 Pro Max is the first OLED iPhone I could realistically even consider keeping and using long-term. I’m not sure yet whether that’s my best option, or if I should deal with iPhone SE for one more year. But this is still an improved iPhone experience.

I was there two weeks ago. The 14PM felt “normal,” but one week later the mild yet persistent symptoms devalued the $1200 price tag. If I’m going to “deal with it,” it’s gonna be for less money. For now, I have a new case on the 11 and I’m trying to be content. But damn I miss that camera.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

How are her choices affecting your choices?

Well it’s all ordered and getting picked up tomorrow. She traded in her 8 on the 13 Mini 256gb and I traded in an old XR on the 14 PM 512gb. Still have my 11 with a fresh battery and because of their error the other night, a new screen as well. I couldn’t part with it in the event I ever regret my decision.

 

[john g.]

I have to give Apple credit where it’s due: the PWM implementation on iPhone 14 Pro may be the best they’re able to do without negatively impacting color accuracy, burn-in, or battery life. Optimistically it seems like somebody at Apple may be part of this thread, reading every post along with us, but perhaps it’s not a widespread enough issue for Apple’s display team to make this their top priority. Flicker-free OLED is probably on their to-do list.

Frankly, iPhone 14 Pro Max is the first OLED iPhone I could realistically even consider keeping and using long-term. I’m not sure yet whether that’s my best option, or if I should deal with iPhone SE for one more year. But this is still an improved iPhone experience.

I forgot, and this thread is so large now that I can't fathom searching for it, did you ever try the non-pro 14?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I forgot, and this thread is so large now that I can't fathom searching for it, did you ever try the non-pro 14?

No, and I might consider it but the slow-mo videos give me pause that it could be better.

From what I’ve gathered in this thread the consensus seems to be iPhone 14 Pro Max > iPhone 14 Pro > iPhone 14, even from those that started with iPhone 14.

I do have to say that it is a bit of a relief going from the 14” MacBook Pro to iPhone 14 Pro Max, which definitely means I’ll have to sell the former. It also tells me that high PWM frequencies may not be the answer.

In other news I went to setup a return at 11:59 just in case and the ability to generate a return online went away at 12:00 sharp. I was covering the Tesla AI Day event, which surprisingly lasted over three hours, and it used to work until 12:59am EST on the old Apple Store interface.

It is slightly liberating thinking that I could just keep this iPhone 14 Pro Max, but it might be wishful thinking like with iPhone 13 Mini or the 14” MacBook Pro where I thought I could get over it but the reality is that it’s impossible if I’m constantly having headaches. Any day I feel like I need to post in this thread is a day I shouldn’t be using either device, and I don’t want to get stuck selling iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Edit: I must have a superpower since I could see the PWM lines while watching a 4K HDR video, then still noticed them holding the same direction after moving my iPhone vertically. They appear to be thinner than what I’ve noticed in the past.

 

[PwmMen]

Here is my conclusion after yesterday. I used the iPhone 14 Pro max 12 hours, and actively looked at the display for 5 hours. That was a lot for my circumstances. Otherwise I look at the display for 1-3 hours in everyday life. In the evening I noticed my eyes slightly, but completely normal if you stared at a display for 5 hours. That was not possible with any OLED iPhone except for the iPhone 12 Pro. Apple must have changed something here. Probably more than the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Pro, since Apple probably wants to sell the max more. The iPhone 14 Pro Max definitely stays here and will not be returned. Since I am not a migraine patient, and my symptoms were only the travel sickness and eye pressure at the other OLED models, I don't think it is deteriorating for the next few days. At least I hope it keeps my fingers crossed. I just don't want to send the iPhone 14 Pro Max back because it is such a big step to the iPhone 12 Pro. But if it comes to such a way that I get worse complaints, I will order an iPad mini and an iPhone SE 2022. Then the iPad Mini is used at home to make calls and surf, and the SE 2022 on the road. But I can usually take the iPad mini with me too. With that I will probably have no problems with the high frequency, right?

 

[dimitricook]

Here is my conclusion after yesterday. I used the iPhone 14 Pro max 12 hours, and actively looked at the display for 5 hours. That was a lot for my circumstances. Otherwise I look at the display for 1-3 hours in everyday life. In the evening I noticed my eyes slightly, but completely normal if you stared at a display for 5 hours. That was not possible with any OLED iPhone except for the iPhone 12 Pro. Apple must have changed something here. Probably more than the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Pro, since Apple probably wants to sell the max more. The iPhone 14 Pro Max definitely stays here and will not be returned. Since I am not a migraine patient, and my symptoms were only the travel sickness and eye pressure at the other OLED models, I don't think it is deteriorating for the next few days. At least I hope it keeps my fingers crossed. I just don't want to send the iPhone 14 Pro Max back because it is such a big step to the iPhone 12 Pro. But if it comes to such a way that I get worse complaints, I will order an iPad mini and an iPhone SE 2022. Then the iPad Mini is used at home to make calls and surf, and the SE 2022 on the road. But I can usually take the iPad mini with me too. With that I will probably have no problems with the high frequency, right?

You are good bro! This is a succes story here! I am very happy for you, keep going with the max. Because of your story and some others here i am thinking about ordering the pro max as well. Thanks for sharing.

 

[PwmMen]

Does anyone here actually have an iPad Mini? According to Notebookcheck, this is flicker-free from a brightness of 20%. Does that mean it only uses PWM up to 20% brightness?

 

[5105973]

Does anyone here actually have an iPad Mini? According to Notebookcheck, this is flicker-free from a brightness of 20%. Does that mean it only uses PWM up to 20% brightness?

I have an iPad mini. I don’t know unfortunately. I only use it in good lighting and on high brightness. I don’t use it in bed like I do an iPhone because sometimes I can fall asleep reading a sentence and I’ve dropped a few iPhones and iPads on my face! Good thing I have a sturdy nose!

The 14 Pro Max could break my face so I hold it back away from my face. I do miss my SE 3 for nighttime reading.

I have decided to avoid LCD displays until I can get to a neurologist and find out what is causing my vision to flicker white on the edge when I use LCD. That is more concerning to me than pwm at the moment. Correction: my MacBook M1 Air display doesn’t seem to be doing that to me. So far it’s the phones and my Nintendo Switch.