I don’t think it’s worth this compromise. I considered that a lot too. But when I tried to test it out I found it inconvenient.
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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I’m keeping this iPhone 14. I’m using it 6 days and haven’t experienced any migraines. This has never happened before.
I think I’ll keep my 11 as a backup just in case. My friend works with camera lenses and displays - he’s the only person who I think fully believes me with the PWM issue - but he said just to make sure it doesn’t reappear over time. He was fascinated by the graphs from Notebookcheck and how Apple have implemented PWM on this phone in comparison to the other OLED iPhones. Whatever they’ve done it seems to have worked for me.
It feels strange to finally be enjoying a new phone without the fear of needing to return it soon.
I think I’ll keep my 11 as a backup just in case. My friend works with camera lenses and displays - he’s the only person who I think fully believes me with the PWM issue - but he said just to make sure it doesn’t reappear over time. He was fascinated by the graphs from Notebookcheck and how Apple have implemented PWM on this phone in comparison to the other OLED iPhones. Whatever they’ve done it seems to have worked for me.
It feels strange to finally be enjoying a new phone without the fear of needing to return it soon.
I went over two mountain passes today to return my 14 Pro. While at the Apple Store I tried the 14+ and the 14 pro max. Granted, the Apple Store is kind of a terrible place to evaluate phones. My opinion of the 14+ was not good. This particular screen lacked contrast and was bland and I checked a bunch of settings but couldn’t find out a reason. Same with another 14+ and they both made my eyes jumpy so I knew they wouldn’t work. By the time I tried out the pro max my eyes were doing a little dance. However, I could tell the pro max was superior for me. Much richer and better contrast and text was easier to read. That’s the only one that could possibly tempt me but I am definitely taking a break.
On my trusty 11 without any effects except for maybe softness of the screen.
Every time I try the Apple OLED screens and then return them I notice my nervous system in general feeling calmer. Less agitation. Although I feel disappointed, I also feel relieved
On my trusty 11 without any effects except for maybe softness of the screen.
Every time I try the Apple OLED screens and then return them I notice my nervous system in general feeling calmer. Less agitation. Although I feel disappointed, I also feel relieved
Another day in with the 14 Plus and reporting in. I still haven’t had any headaches or dizziness, but the eye strain is starting to creep in with too much use. Over the past 24 hours I find myself avoiding the 14 Plus more and more when other options are available. For example, if the iPad Mini is nearby and the 14 Plus is right next to me, I will go grab the iPad. There’s still something about the screen that makes it off-putting enough for me to avoid using it when I have alternatives available. I’ve tried to pick out the details about the 14 Plus screen that make it unpleasant to me.
I have learned a few valuable things during my time with the 14 Plus.
- It's harsh to look at, especially when reading. OLED is just like that for me, and I need to accept it. I find the contrast ratio is too intense and colors are too loud, and no amount of tinkering eliminates that feeling. There are just too many extremes happening on the screen at one time. I simply don’t like the look of OLED screens.
- Response times are too good. When scrolling you can really see this. On 60hz LCD screens, there is a natural blur that comes in when you scroll thanks to motion blur. With OLED, the screen is so fast that the motion blur doesn’t happen, and your eyes are left to handle that task. And for me, that results in seeing choppy text with scanlines anytime I scroll through text. There’s no “softness” to scrolling like on LCD. I imagine this is somewhat resolved with ProMotion OLEDs.
- The white balance is off. Or perhaps it’s more accurate. Either way, I don’t like it. With True Tone disabled, the screen is still a bit too warm. If you enable it, it’s way too warm. On my XR, I have TT enabled and it’s cooler than the 14 Plus with it disabled. The XR is more in line with my iPads (2017 Pro and Mini 6), so the 14 Plus is the odd man out on color out of all my devices. 14 Pro was more accurate here from what I recall.
- When you drop the brightness very low, the flicker becomes apparent enough for me to see with the naked eye if I catch the phone in my peripheral vision. I rarely use it like this but when the phone goes into night mode and I tap to wake, I can see it and it’s a nightly reminder this thing is always flickering away at me even when I don’t see it.
I have learned a few valuable things during my time with the 14 Plus.
- I now know the 14 Plus (and probably 14 with the fonts made larger) is a usable option if something happens to my XR before a new SE is released. But at this point, I would probably just get a refurb 11 if I had to replace my XR right now.
- I will be picking up a new SE if Apple goes with the rumored XR design. The speed of the new iPhones is amazing, and I want that snappiness with my XR screen.
- My camera needs are simple. If I make a nice loaf of bread or a delicious looking pizza, I’m going to grab a photo. For that kind of stuff, cameras got good enough awhile ago. The cameras on the 14 Pro line (or any recent Pro iPhone) would absolutely be wasted on me.
- I’m going to avoid the M1 and M2 12.9” iPads since those use new screen technology. Not OLED but there’s still PWM being used so no thank you. The 11” still has the good old reliable LCD, so I’m going to try to find a deal on an M1 version. Thank goodness Apple didn’t transition the iPads to OLED… yet.
Ah yeah you still have a physical sim you can put back in. Yeah I’m stuck with E Sim. I have not yet tried to switch.
I actually had to go to Verizon to get the physical Sim because my iPhone 11 did not want to do the reverse eSIM thing from the 14 Pro. It just kept throwing up error messages. So the old school Sim card is totally fine by me.
We have a winner! Congrats on finally making it out of the flicker hellscape. Enjoy every minute.
Yes! We almost need a list of names to have a virtual parade. Something tells me it would be a very short parade though.
I feel like a lot of us ended up returning our phones. A big percentage.
Enjoying the screen on my 11 again and being able to use it freely. Missing everything else about the 14 Pro though. It seems like Apple’s sales of the regular 14 have been problematic. I wish they would revert back to the 11 era. Meaning, that the pro versions can have the fancy OLED screens and the regular vanilla models could have LCD. Then they would could drop the price conceivably by $100-$150 for the non pro models. Instant big seller.
After all, if you are to believe the Internet, the iPhone 11 was the second best selling phone for Apple of all time. Behind the iPhone 6. Why waste that on a partially compromised SE?
Why not have the regular iPhone 15 with a LCD screen with most of the features? Then the pros can have all the problematic eye searing, ridiculously high contrast, sharper than a knife screens?
Just a wish cast or thought
After all, if you are to believe the Internet, the iPhone 11 was the second best selling phone for Apple of all time. Behind the iPhone 6. Why waste that on a partially compromised SE?
Why not have the regular iPhone 15 with a LCD screen with most of the features? Then the pros can have all the problematic eye searing, ridiculously high contrast, sharper than a knife screens?
Just a wish cast or thought
I’m kind of in a weird dilemma with the displays. I might not be able to go back to LCD if I have trouble with OLED.
I’ve had no eye strain or headaches but the clumsiness I had on the 11 Pro is back as I use my 14 Pro Max. Im tripping over things, bumping into everything, falling over when I bent over to scrub my mom’s shower stall and again when I lowered myself to scrub her floor.
I seem to have wonky spatial awareness and that probably helped contribute to the freak accident I had smashing my forehead into the door handle when my cat got out. And yes I did almost fall down the stairs again, before the freak accident with the door handle.
It’s all very reminiscent of my time on the 11 Pro.
But if I go back to LCD the white flicker will take over my left eye again 🤬 temporal dithering.
It’s hard for me to evaluate anything right now though because I am starting to think I have a slight concussion. Hard to say.
Complicating matters there was a virus going around. I had it and the kids at school had it. Other parents had it. It’s left behind sinus infections and bronchitis for all of us. That could be messing me up and not the iPhone. Stuffed up head would make me clumsy.
It’s a circus around here! 🤡🥸😬
I am bummed about my issues with LCD because I still absolutely love my iPhone 11 and SE 2022 and would happily still use them around the house on Wi-Fi.
I did have a headache on the left side of my head behind my eye the last couple of days on my 14 Pro Max, less so on the S22 Ultra but if I had a concussion that would explain it. Even without a concussion I did smack my head hard of course it would hurt. But sinus pressure would do that, too.
In short, I’ve got no idea what’s going on exactly but I am feeling a bit insecure that I can’t flee back to LCD if OLED doesn’t work out for me.
I switched my SIM card back to my old 11, and will start my return request for 14pro soon. I agree with you 100%, it's so much easier (physically and mentally) to use the iPhone 11, but I miss the 14 Pro. Debating if I should try the regular 14 or 14 PM next. But I think my eyes needs a few days of break first. If they put a LCD on regular 15 next year I will pre-order it on the launch day as I did for the pre-OLED era iPhones..So frustrating to not able to enjoy a new iPhone anymore.
It takes me an almost equivalent amount of time using the phone to get over the headaches; I.e., at least three months to get over three months of persistent headaches.
Thankfully my headaches with iPhone 14 Pro Max don’t have nearly the same persistence as previous iPhones I’ve tested, so I’m optimistic for a quicker recovery period.
It’s all but hardwired into my DNA to own the latest iPhone, which has made this process more difficult. Although I have had fond memories of most of the latest iPhones I’ve tested, so it’s not all in vain and truth be told it has been an opportunity to test iPhone models and colors that I wouldn’t normally.
At the same time, I’m beginning to find that I want a more minimalistic experience. I have no issues with the Max size in usability, but it might be slightly large when out in the world. I’d rather have a 5.4” display with a higher resolution as it’s capable of offering all the same features. I’d love a Mini-sized iPhone, but oddly iPhone 14 Pro Max has been quite a bit better for PWM sensitivity.
Unfortunately it doesn’t sound like iPhone 14 Pro would be any better than the Max which is already comparatively decent compared to previous generations. I may be tempted to try the standard iPhone 14 if the amplitudes are further improved over iPhone 13 Mini.
As an aside, the Galaxy S22+ has an amazing display. Samsung punches up the vividness ever so slightly, and colors reminded me of the display on iPhone 13 Mini. I’m loyal to Apple and this gets in the way of my minimalism goals regardless, but I’d be curious for science if I get lasting headaches with a S22/S23 or a Flip4. I don’t think iOS interface elements or animations contribute as my worst headaches usually came from watching videos.
Otherwise it still feels like we’re wasting quite a bit of energy and facing disappointment since if we find an iPhone we love like for me iPhone 13 Mini in Blue then it’s either face constant and persistent headaches or switch to a LCD iPhone. Thankfully, iPhone SE does check most of my boxes for what I want and need in an iPhone.
The day we all own new iPhones again should be the day that a flagship iPhone has a flicker-free display that doesn’t mess with our nervous systems. But that doesn’t seem realistic if that day is still 5-10 years away, so I can offer no tangible conclusion…
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I have found the Pro and Pro Max to be similar experiences. So, maybe depending on your specific experience with the 14 Pro, the 14 PM might be very similar. I say this not to discourage you, but hoping that it helps me you make the better decision for you—whatever that is.
I could not agree with this more! It's gotten to the point where the standard line feels unnecessary, especially updating it each year. I mean, they basically skipped an update with the 14 but still bumped up the number just to keep it aligned with the 14 Pro and Pro Max. I would LOVE for them to get back to basics and go LCD for the standard phones, maybe only update it every other year as needed, price it well and then keep the fancy pants stuff for the Pro/Max/Ultra/UltraProMaxPlus phones. If they release an updated SE based on the XR, I bet it will sell VERY well. The SE is also still backordered into mid Nov. and I haven't seen them in stock at the local Apple store for weeks. At some point, they have to see people purchase at the low end and the high end. Time to cut out the middle man and simplify. But I know a lot of people out there, especially the review channels, would lose their minds if Apple reverted back to LCD in the regular iPhone. They still poo poo the XR and 11 when they come up in discussions for being LCD. And every review of the SE blasted it for using "old" screen tech. But those of us who prefer it would rejoice in such a change!
Would a privacy screen protector help with that harshness you mentioned? I notice the same thing as well, and have wondered if the slight effect that these have even when looking at the display straight on to darken the display, softening the eye-piercing sharpness/brightness of the display might help?
I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. It does seem like it is difficult to go between LCD and OLED. Since sending my 14 pro back, I've been on the LCD iPhone 11 for a day and a half now. When using the phone for short to medium sessions, it is comparatively blissful compared to OLED. But if I'm using the phone for an extended period, right now I am getting some eye fatigue and a tiny bit of dizziness. I think it'll take a few days, like someone said maybe three days for that to diminish. So hopefully with a bit more time you will feel better soon.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again as a summary:
Our brains are picking up on flickering that isn’t supposed to be perceptible. This sensitivity doesn’t typically go away over time, and any sort of adjustment is simply compensating for the flickering.
All of this leads to tension headaches and migraines, which may or may not be persistent. There’s no current solution besides switching to a LCD iPhone with no flicker, and some users are even perceptible to temporal dithering on newer LCD iPhones.
Yet against logic we’re here year-after-year testing every combination of settings to be able to use these iPhones, when none will truly work until we have a flicker-free brightness controller again.
Our brains are picking up on flickering that isn’t supposed to be perceptible. This sensitivity doesn’t typically go away over time, and any sort of adjustment is simply compensating for the flickering.
All of this leads to tension headaches and migraines, which may or may not be persistent. There’s no current solution besides switching to a LCD iPhone with no flicker, and some users are even perceptible to temporal dithering on newer LCD iPhones.
Yet against logic we’re here year-after-year testing every combination of settings to be able to use these iPhones, when none will truly work until we have a flicker-free brightness controller again.
in some recent post, some lovely person talked of getting the iPad Pro 11” (think it was M1) because it had no PWM implementation: PLEASE post that again.
I had trouble with the iPP M1 12.9 and went back to a 2020 version. I’m starting to keep a list of apple devices with no PWM because it’s clearly more than OLED screens causing the issues. So when Apple’s site says mini LED or just LED, I can no longer discern what I can safely use.
I want to be prepared for when my gear breaks. Gone are the days when I can just walk into Apple and get the latest and greatest. For phones, it’s going to have to be SE in store or 11 in refurbished.
Please share about the iPads again, especially the iPP. Thank you!
I had trouble with the iPP M1 12.9 and went back to a 2020 version. I’m starting to keep a list of apple devices with no PWM because it’s clearly more than OLED screens causing the issues. So when Apple’s site says mini LED or just LED, I can no longer discern what I can safely use.
I want to be prepared for when my gear breaks. Gone are the days when I can just walk into Apple and get the latest and greatest. For phones, it’s going to have to be SE in store or 11 in refurbished.
Please share about the iPads again, especially the iPP. Thank you!
Agree, but like with most things in life you can get used to it without issues. Your nose for example, did you ever noticed it? Its there all the time, our brain only stopped looking/processing it.
I am also a user of a 55inch samsung flickering like crazy tv which doesn´t bother me at all after a few weeks of adjusting. Also some other tech that bothers me the first weeks and than totally fine..
ITS possible, i am only waiting for it to be possible with apple tech for me
From what I understand, when Apple made the switch to MiniLED on the 12.9" in 2021, PWM became an issue. It's at a much higher frequency of 19.19 kHz (according to notebookcheck) so I would imagine it bothers people less than OLED. But seeing it come into play at all is a no go for me. If you look at the comments on the YouTube video notebook check posted, you can see people reporting headaches and issues with the 12.9" MiniLED.
The 11" still uses the old Liquid Retina that's been used since the 2018 redesign. When notebookcheck tested the 2021 11" M1 model, they detected no PWM. So that model is still safe from what I've been able to gather. I'm looking at getting a discounted M1 Pro 11" once the price starts to drop a bit more on them, but I don't consider the 12.9" an option for me. Not going to chance it.
I had issue with the Mini-LED 12.9 M1 - it's the too much light flashing/glowing on the edge of my vision issue I've had with the iPhone 11 as well. My eyes felt strained and acted like they were constantly trying to focus. PWM? Dithering? It's a damn shame as the Mini-LED display is the best I've seen from Apple and the whites were clean and crisp. That said, the blooming on white text was nasty.
I was waiting on the M2 ipads thinking I needed the latest and greatest but as the “new” features + spec bump is so minor and the price increased alot, an M1 11" is the better purchase - sadly in the UK everyone has done a run on stock, likely due to the price hike on the M2, and no large and reliable retailer has stock. This dumb decision by me has also meant I missed out on the back to school offer with education discount for the M1 11”. Sigh....
I'd love an iPad Mini but the jelly scroll is very apparent to me. I've considered just getting a 2018 or 2020 iPad Pro 11” from the refurb store but they have age on them so not great long-term value. Guess I'll wait a little longer to see if the M1 makes a show on the refurb store.
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I thought there was no way this high of a frequency could cause an issue even for me… I should have listened to Notebookcheck’s review.
It makes me take note of the displays we do stare at with PWM that we have no issues with whatsoever, and that must be how a majority of people feel staring at these displays. I can focus all-day on my plasma and countless other displays with extremely high PWM rates that technically use some sort of flicker with no issues at all.
Or even the Apple Watch, which makes me slightly hesitant whether the display on Apple Watch Ultra will be different.
It’s an interesting phenomenon to have displays that cause no sensitivity whatsoever, whereas staring at these OLED and Mini LED displays causes instant sensitivity. Such a distinct contrast between being able to stare at a display and focus as expected without the PWM being discernible and getting constant tension headaches from other displays, which for me is only Apple’s latest products—although I wouldn’t rule out other modern smartphones causing similar issues.
That’s another reason we should technically wait until we can stare at an iPhone and have the PWM not be discernible, which I suppose is the goal of pre-ordering an iPhone that we know will probably still use PWM but has the possibility of being different. Even if it has PWM, we should only keep products where it isn’t discernible.
This is insane to me: I can see the PWM lines on the MacBook Pro I'm staring at, essentially how they would appear in a slo-mo video.
Wow, I have a superpower...
Edit: I'm not even exaggerating, as I can see lines across the display, and the display only, and pick up on them slightly moving.
Wow, I have a superpower...
Edit: I'm not even exaggerating, as I can see lines across the display, and the display only, and pick up on them slightly moving.
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You know all things considered, in a strange way Apple did me a favor. I wouldn't have been so aware of the PWM issue had it not been for the iPhone X that started it all. I've since removed PWM from all lights in my home and I swapped my LG ultrawide for a Dell Ultrasharp because the Dell is flicker free. I really do think my eyes are better off for it. And I have a new appreciation for my XR. Little did I know when I purchased that chonky bezel little guy four years ago just how wonderful it would be up against years of OLED nightmare screens to follow.