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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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And yes, I had issues with the 2021 12.9" iPP. Definitely good call for you to stay away from there.
I haven't seen anything definitive but considering the 2021 M1 11" is good to go, I'm sure the M2 is as well. They really changed nothing about them other than the M2 upgrade and the pencil hover thing. All the tech channels were upset the 11" didn't get the MiniLED this round, but I was relieved to hear it! If the M1 models don't get marked down by much, I will grab the 11" M2 without worry of PWM. I hold onto my iPads for a long time so either way I'm happy. I would have considered the 12.9, but not anymore thanks to MiniLED. I've probably gone off the deep end but I'm at the point where I refuse to use anything with PWM. Even if it's a super high frequency, haha.
I still find it interesting that the display on iPhone 14 Pro Max causes less issues than the Mini LED display Apple is using on the MacBook Pro line and 12.9” iPad Pro. The solution apparently isn’t an extremely high PWM rate.
I’m also not sure that the 480Hz rate, if accurate, is necessarily better than 240Hz at lower brightness levels.
I’m also not sure that the 480Hz rate, if accurate, is necessarily better than 240Hz at lower brightness levels.
The 11” has a standard ‘Liquid Retina’ LCD display, but it surprisingly utilizes PWM at a rate of 1316Hz:
Apple iPad Pro 11 2020 Tablet Review – This is what an update should look like
Expert review of the Apple iPad Pro 11 2020. With support for the Apple Pencil 2 and the new Magic Keyboard, Apple's iPad Pro is a tablet designed for professional users. It is also the first Apple tablet with USB Type-C. The iPad Pro is a high-quality tablet with a lot of performance for...
Literally in the same position. My MBP gives me nausea. What I found that helps a bit with the iPhone is adjusting the screen brightness high, playing with the white point, and the use of a glass protector that contains a blue light filter (not that this will work for any one, but it's worth a try). Also, keeping a well lit environment. No idea what solution will work on the Mini LED MBP though, if any.
Once again, notebookcheck confuses with their results. They tested the M1 version the next year and came up with no PWM. And I highly doubt Apple changed the display between those two. So who knows, haha.The 11” has a standard ‘Liquid Retina’ LCD display, but it surprisingly utilizes PWM at a rate of 1316Hz:
Apple iPad Pro 11 2020 Tablet Review – This is what an update should look like
Expert review of the Apple iPad Pro 11 2020. With support for the Apple Pencil 2 and the new Magic Keyboard, Apple's iPad Pro is a tablet designed for professional users. It is also the first Apple tablet with USB Type-C. The iPad Pro is a high-quality tablet with a lot of performance for...www.notebookcheck.net
Apple iPad Pro 11 (2021) tablet review - The Apple tablet sparks the M1-Turbo
In our test, the 3rd generation Apple iPad Pro tablet presents itself as a substantial performance upgrade and sets new standards for performance in its class.
Looked up the 2018 review and they didn't find it in that one either. So I'm thinking something is weird about those 2020 results.
Apple iPad Pro 11 (2018, WiFi, 64 GB) Tablet Review
Notebookcheck reviews the new Apple iPad Pro 11, which has undergone a complete redesign. Does the device have more power and better battery life than its predecessor? The iPad can be bought practically anywhere online and directly from Apple, the latter of which also offers a student discount...
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Yes it is definitely not just the flicker or pwm rate which causes the headache/migraine/motion sickness. I used an iPhone X without any issue for 3 years (apparently this had the worst pwm). I couldn't use the 12 series or the 13 series. It's probably the display engine/driver on the newer apple devices which is causing issues for people with some degree of astigmatism. From a medical point of view, the easiest way to explain it is that when you have astigmatism, the image from the screen doesn't land directly onto your retina. This causes ciliary muscle spasm/movement which leads to the feeling of motion sickness/migraine. I personally don't have any issue using many other Samsung, hauwei devices with OLED. I just can't bring myself to switch to Android, as my iPhone 11 still supports iOS 16 and works well enough for my needs.
The newer MacBook Pro line and iPad Pro may be causing migraines due to the slight offset that you are experiencing on your retina. The 120hz can also play a role, because your brain may be more comfortable with 60hz. This varies from person to person. I'm personally looking forward to the iPhone SE next year as long as it is more similar to the iPhone 11 then the iPhone XR.
Oh wow I have a teeny tiny bit of astigmatism in one eye but I don’t remember which one. The doctor said it was almost negligible and my glasses don’t correct for it. I’m guessing it’s in my left eye since that’s the one that flickers on iPhone 11 and SE LCD screens.
Thank you for providing this information. I’m learning so much from this thread.
I’m currently back on my iPhone 11. I’m using it for a few days while my head heals from the whack on the door handle.
I can still use my 14 Pro Max. I just don’t want to be doing a lot of work on it right now in case I do have a concussion.
Has anybody any report about iPad Pro 2018 and iPadOS 16.1? I launched update this morning, I came home now and it seems there is a bit of eye strain..temporal dithering again (I cannot use iPhone 11 either)?
Excellent idea! Yes, please stay away from any known flashing while you might have a concussion. You know I know concussions. Please be kind to yourself.
hey guys! After more than 1 month after I tried IP14 pro, i just started to have nausea, some slight vertigo, eye tension, some pressure in temple, jaw muscles tense using a regular macbook pro M1 (OLED) or with regular TFT monitor. Tried with older macbooks with LED displays, same thing. Don't know what to do in this situation. Visited eye doctor and everything is fine with my eyes, doctor of course never heard about this problem, and said i need to go to practitioner and some neurologist... It's terrible. I never had any problems with monitors, LED, TFT, iphone 11 pro, latest macbook pro with M1 also OLED. Its started only after i tried IP14 pro for 1 day.
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I probably should have gone to this clinic in town that specializes in concussions. There are a LOT of kids in sports here so they unfortunately get a lot of business. But I was supposed to be taking care of my mom the next day after my accident and attending a meeting about her care. There are things they’re too short staffed to do for her so I am basically her servant now (plus she’s got some mental issues/attitudes I have to placate) and when I’m not doing that I am trying to schedule appointments for a kid whose medical conditions are making themselves known. I didn’t have time for myself.
Then I remembered really late in the game that a few years ago, when one of the boys on our team got a concussion, he wasn’t allowed to look at any screens. Doh!
Today with the iPhone 11 I do note I’m not having any weird pressure in my left eye. No headaches and my balance and coordination are better. That’s good. The flicker is sneaking back though. I’m really outta luck because I’ve got side effects with LCD, too. 😢
I’m just going to switch between them. For Christmas I’m going to ask for print versions of my favorite books and I am only going to read them during the day by the light of the sun. I’ve tried Audible and it’s ok but it’s expensive and I do prefer reading.
eReaders without any background light are delightful on the brain. e-ink, so gentle. Maybe ask for a Kindle or a Kobo. I have multiple sizes of e-ink, so just ask if you want more info about different brands and such. Good luck!
This is an interesting idea - but doesn't our corrective lenses (if worn) fix this issue regarding the image landing on our eyes directly?
I may have celebrated too soon or jinxed it. But I’ve had migraines yesterday and today which feel directly related to the iPhone 14. It seems like as time goes on I’m developing a reaction.
This is day 9 so I’m closing in on the return window. I’m going to monitor it over the next few days but I’m nervous now.
This is day 9 so I’m closing in on the return window. I’m going to monitor it over the next few days but I’m nervous now.
If you started having symptoms 1 month after trying iPhone 14 pro for 1 day only I'd honestly investigate further, it seems unlikely
When I tried out the regular 14, it took a while for me as well. I went right to the end of the return policy and a couple days before the end of it I started getting a lot of dizziness but before that it was very mild. Sorry it doesn’t look like it’s gonna work out
I feel like some of the symptoms are delayed as well. I used the 14 Plus a lot on Friday and Saturday and then only used it occasionally Sunday and Monday. By yesterday, it was just sitting on my counter waiting to be boxed up. But yesterday evening, I started getting the same stabbing pain behind my right eye that I always get after a few days with an OLED iPhone. Always makes me worry a headache is coming on but thankfully one did not. I thought I avoided symptoms by limiting my usage Sun and Mon, but I guess my Friday and Saturday hours caught up to me. By this morning not using the 14 Plus at all yesterday, back to normal.
Now, why did I have to go and read this (looking for PWM figures on Samsung phones, gonna buy one of them but still don't want to leave Apple 🙁):
iPhone 14 Pro Max (the one I haven't tried)
"The iPhone's ProMotion display also shows the flickering that is typical of OLEDs, but a quite smooth curve with a stable 240 Hz at minimum display brightness. If this is raised above 39 percent, the frequency then rises to a constant 480 Hz, which is comparable to high-frequency DC dimming. The burden for sensitive people should thus be lower. No temporal dithering was determined, which we checked for by examining the display with a microscope and a 240 FPS slow motion video (dark gray, at full brightness)."
notebookcheck
🤔
*edit: that said I've just read the 14 Plus review:
"The iPhone 14 Plus most likely uses DC dimming to regulate the screen brightness. That cannot be said exactly, since Apple does not provide any information about which display control is used. In any case, we determine that the display flickers at a constant 59 Hz in all brightness levels that we measured. In contrast to brightness control via PWM (pulse width modulation), which is typically characterized by strongly fluctuating frequencies, the constant display flickering of the iPhone 14 Plus is much less strenuous for most users and should therefore not bother even sensitive users."
Well this phone made me feel awful so I guess I can't put any faith into comments like "comparable to high-frequency DC dimming" and "likely uses DC dimming". A constant PWM clearly isn't a fix for me or many of us, its still flashing away!
iPhone 14 Pro Max (the one I haven't tried)
"The iPhone's ProMotion display also shows the flickering that is typical of OLEDs, but a quite smooth curve with a stable 240 Hz at minimum display brightness. If this is raised above 39 percent, the frequency then rises to a constant 480 Hz, which is comparable to high-frequency DC dimming. The burden for sensitive people should thus be lower. No temporal dithering was determined, which we checked for by examining the display with a microscope and a 240 FPS slow motion video (dark gray, at full brightness)."
notebookcheck
🤔
*edit: that said I've just read the 14 Plus review:
"The iPhone 14 Plus most likely uses DC dimming to regulate the screen brightness. That cannot be said exactly, since Apple does not provide any information about which display control is used. In any case, we determine that the display flickers at a constant 59 Hz in all brightness levels that we measured. In contrast to brightness control via PWM (pulse width modulation), which is typically characterized by strongly fluctuating frequencies, the constant display flickering of the iPhone 14 Plus is much less strenuous for most users and should therefore not bother even sensitive users."
Well this phone made me feel awful so I guess I can't put any faith into comments like "comparable to high-frequency DC dimming" and "likely uses DC dimming". A constant PWM clearly isn't a fix for me or many of us, its still flashing away!
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This is quite an interesting proposition as I also wear corrective lenses for an astigmatism
I have also done some preliminary research on the relationship between ADHD and light sensitivity in attempts to answer the question of symptom origin
Thanks @john g. and @Chrispy
I was starting to feel down about it but it’s reassuring to know it’s not just me that saw the affects much later. It’s very easy to get into the mindset of “I told people it was working out for me and now I’m not so sure”, “surely it can’t be happening again”, “people are going to think I’m losing it”.
But then I also have concern for my health and I’m thinking the risk isn’t worth it.
I was starting to feel down about it but it’s reassuring to know it’s not just me that saw the affects much later. It’s very easy to get into the mindset of “I told people it was working out for me and now I’m not so sure”, “surely it can’t be happening again”, “people are going to think I’m losing it”.
But then I also have concern for my health and I’m thinking the risk isn’t worth it.
Do you have a favorite? All my ebooks are from Amazon so a Kindle would work for me. I have one of the very old Kindles.eReaders without any background light are delightful on the brain. e-ink, so gentle. Maybe ask for a Kindle or a Kobo. I have multiple sizes of e-ink, so just ask if you want more info about different brands and such. Good luck!