Trying out the 14 Pro Max and it's been bothering my eyes enough for the first couple days that I'm considering returning it but I'd like to give it at least a week. Are there any screen settings that would help? Thanks
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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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My 2 pennies: the 13 Mini and 14 Plus gave me fairly quick negative reactions (either of these phones would have been my fav of the last few generations). The 14 I used for a week before throwing in the towel due to mild motion sickness/uncomfortable internal feelings and the screen had a very uneven yellow look.
Another visit to my local Apple store to attempt to convince myself to pick up an iPhone SE. I was thinking of pairing with an Apple Watch Ultra and iPad - why not treat myself to the top tier watch and iPP if I have to take the bottom tier phone.
I'm glad I tried on the AWU with the Alpin loop because I realised the strap was trash. It feels cheap and is awkward to get over my big hands even with the large sized strap. The Ocean band which looks cheap in photos was easiest to wear and felt very comfy. I was impressed with the watch itself and my wrist can pull off the size. I will think on this....
Using the ipads quickly showed me they all have jelly scroll that I notice very obviously. The Mini 6 is the worst for this because it also has 60hz refresh but I was surprised to see it on the 12.9 M2 and 11 M2. The 11 M2 display also looked redish and dull against the bright white Mini-LED 12.9 which was a shame. Seeing the jelly scroll on all of the ipads has put me off a purchase especially with the UK price hikes. Also I don't think I can use Mini-led with its PWM but I want the 12.9 over the 11.
I then had a play on the SE which looked like it was scrolling in slow motion. I pulled out my 7 Plus and it also looked wrong with slow refresh. This has me thinking that either looking at the 120hz iPads had thrown my vision OR I'm starting to suspect there is something very odd about the lighting in the store?
I didn't even touch the 14 iPhones as I know these dont work for me. I left the store feeling a little frazzled and disappointed. I'm potentially settling for a phone I don't really want, not getting an over priced iPad Pro and I'm gonna sleep on the watch idea. 😒
I'm glad I tried on the AWU with the Alpin loop because I realised the strap was trash. It feels cheap and is awkward to get over my big hands even with the large sized strap. The Ocean band which looks cheap in photos was easiest to wear and felt very comfy. I was impressed with the watch itself and my wrist can pull off the size. I will think on this....
Using the ipads quickly showed me they all have jelly scroll that I notice very obviously. The Mini 6 is the worst for this because it also has 60hz refresh but I was surprised to see it on the 12.9 M2 and 11 M2. The 11 M2 display also looked redish and dull against the bright white Mini-LED 12.9 which was a shame. Seeing the jelly scroll on all of the ipads has put me off a purchase especially with the UK price hikes. Also I don't think I can use Mini-led with its PWM but I want the 12.9 over the 11.
I then had a play on the SE which looked like it was scrolling in slow motion. I pulled out my 7 Plus and it also looked wrong with slow refresh. This has me thinking that either looking at the 120hz iPads had thrown my vision OR I'm starting to suspect there is something very odd about the lighting in the store?
I didn't even touch the 14 iPhones as I know these dont work for me. I left the store feeling a little frazzled and disappointed. I'm potentially settling for a phone I don't really want, not getting an over priced iPad Pro and I'm gonna sleep on the watch idea. 😒
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So I’m on day 12 of the iPhone 14 and I’ve still only had that 2 day migraine on day 8 and 9 which may have just been work/tension related. So I’m still optimistic I might keep this phone.
Fingers crossed that it might work out before the return button disappears on Monday.
Fingers crossed that it might work out before the return button disappears on Monday.
Oh man, that sucks to hear. I'm sorry the trip didn't work out as planned. It's really interesting how different our preferences can be. I also went to the Apple Store to check out the 11" M2 iPad Pro and I thought it was perfect. Screen looks just like my 2017 10.5" Pro LCD that I love, but with a bit more contrast and without the big bright spot that the 2017 model developed over the years. I also have the Mini 6 and it's quickly becoming my favorite Apple device I own.
I also checked out the SE again in store, and I thought the screen actually looked a bit better than my XR. The text renders the same size on the SE (perhaps even slightly larger), there's just less of it on screen thanks to the bezels. Still not sure how I feel about that, but I'm considering it as a holdover phone. The BT and cellular on the XR are really starting to annoy me more than anything else. AirPods Pro 2 especially seem to have some dropout issues with the XR that they don't have with the Mini 6 and didn't have with the 14 Plus.
What I have learned is I'm definitely far more forgiving of LCD screens than I am of OLED. Everyone says the panel in the Mini 6 is garbage, but I think's it's lovely. Heck, I lived with a 1" diameter bright spot above the home button on the 2017 Pro and often forgot it was there, haha. I guess I just really like Apple LCDs but can't handle their OLEDs.
i have both the XR and SE2022, currently using the SE as my primary overt the XR due to the significantly better cell and wifi reception, and the fact that i definitely perceive the SE's screen to look better - surprisingly so.
I recently got my lady a 12 mini and I prefer the SE screen to that as well. I honestly got the SE3 expecting to dislike it and use as a stop gap between larger screen IPS releases, but i have been very pleasantly surprised at the user friendly simplicity and home button operation. Battery life is fine. If i just use the SE for the day i dont notice the smaller screen, only when i use them side by side.
I only notice the bezels for the first 30 seconds of use, after that its all good - they actually provide a place to hold the phone if desired.
"I also have the Mini 6 and it's quickly becoming my favorite Apple device I own."
..... next on my list of products to buy, especially since I just found the Apple veterans store, SE2022 paired with a Ipad mini 6 seems like ill be set for some time, until Apple offers that elusive 5.8" all screen IPS with A18 chip and 14 cameras, failing that i guess ill just keep rocking the SE's
That's exactly how I felt when I got my XR coming from the X. I wasn't excited about the purchase and figured it would just be a holdover device. And now I see it as the best iPhone I have ever owned. So the fact I'm saying something similar about the SE could be the sign it's my next four year phone, haha. Thanks for sharing your experience with it! I'm glad it wasn't just my imagination that the screen seemed like an improvement over the XR.
And I agree, the SE with the Mini 6 would be a great combo. I love mine, even with the jelly scrolling thing, the size and everything else about it makes up for that fault in my opinion. Especially if you catch a sale or discount pricing. I initially got the 64gb model but upgraded to the 256gb after I realized how much I enjoy it and quickly filled up the 64gb.
I would love a Mini 6 as I can one hand it like a phone. Light and solid, I just can't unsee the jelly scroll. Using it like I do my 7 Plus, everything skews and bends when scrolling which messes with my eyes. Then picking up the 12.9 which has the best display I've seen makes me dream of owning and using like a laptop but then snapping off the magic keyboard and using as comic reader = perfect. But to also see the jelly scroll here as well really puts a pause on ownership when considering the price.
Poor implementation or cheap display control which leads to this visual effect is just going to lead to motion sickness for me and feel like a stone in my shoe everytime I see it and think "well that sucks".
I hate my eyes and brain right now!
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How frustrating! And yeah, if you can pick up on the jelly scrolling on the 12.9, then I can imagine the Mini 6 would be a nightmare for you. I'm also seeing various reports about color shift when scrolling, flickering on some colors, graininess, blooming, etc. here and on Reddit with the 12.9. I get the vibe they are still working out how to tune that MiniLED since you don't see a lot being said about the 11" other than it's boring, haha. I hope Apple steps up their display controller game so we don't have to play these games of "which things am I sensitive to" before we can determine what devices are compatible for us. It can be an exhausting exercise when all you want to do is get something to enjoy and have fun with.
PWM and DC dimming is confusing to me. Here are quotes from notebookcheck's Phone 14 Plus review:
So, the refresh rate is 60Hz. And refresh rate is not the same as PWM, since PWM is related to turning the backlight of the screen on and off. And then they write that the backlight flickers at 59Hz, likely using PWM.
So, the screen is refreshed at all times at 60Hz, and is also turning off and on its backlight using PWM at 59Hz, at all times? So even if it is very low, as long as it is constant, it is less of a problem than a screen that has a variable PWM?
Up until now I had thought that DC dimming meant PWM-free. But it seems you can have both PWM and DC dimming at the same time. I assume the holy grail is no PWM whatsoever?
So, the refresh rate is 60Hz. And refresh rate is not the same as PWM, since PWM is related to turning the backlight of the screen on and off. And then they write that the backlight flickers at 59Hz, likely using PWM.
So, the screen is refreshed at all times at 60Hz, and is also turning off and on its backlight using PWM at 59Hz, at all times? So even if it is very low, as long as it is constant, it is less of a problem than a screen that has a variable PWM?
Up until now I had thought that DC dimming meant PWM-free. But it seems you can have both PWM and DC dimming at the same time. I assume the holy grail is no PWM whatsoever?
It sounds like the PWM section uses generic wording. If there’s any flicker at all it will end up under PWM even if it’s DC dimming.
13 Pro was also a surprisingly uncomfortable experience for me too, despite having a consistent 480Hz rate and what Notebookcheck calls as quasi-DC dimming. Constant migraines while watching videos.
I’m adjusting to an extent to iPhone 14 Pro Max, but still get the behind-the-eye throbbing occasionally. I’m not super attached, and I’m optimistic next generation will be better. If we have 60Hz DC dimming on iPhone 14/iPhone 14 Plus, then it should be better yet on iPhone 15.
Another observation: iPhone 14 Plus was measured to have significantly better color accuracy than the rest of the range, which makes me even more intrigued to try it.
Somebody earlier had mentioned that the size of Apple Watch may contribute to not getting headaches and that may be true to an extent, but I’ve never gotten even a hint of PWM sensitivity. It still may not be ideal staring at a flickering 6.7” display, and the slow-motion video for iPhone 14 Plus makes me skeptical. But if it’s like Apple Watch I think the amplitudes being low enough is the real solution, as iPhone 13 Mini did have relatively low amplitudes which made the display both more enjoyable to look at and caused slightly less sensitivity but still constant and persistent headaches.
That's interesting to me. Last time I was in an Apple store I compared the 14+ to the 14 pro max. I thought the 14+ was dull in comparison to the rich colors and the high contrast of the pro max. But that super high contrast is also something I kind of occasionally hate about Apple OLED screens. So, maybe the 14+ did have more accurate colors?
The super high contrast, almost fake HD look, seems impressive to me at first, but then gets kind of fatiguing.
Maybe it’s just my PWM sensitivity biasing results, but I find the LTPO OLED’s to be slightly more dull than the more conventional OLED panels on iPhone 13/iPhone 14–although I’ve yet to see an iPhone 14 in person, so the comparison comes from iPhone 13. The panels measure better in Notebookcheck’s objective analysis.
A different thought ... not related to PWM specifically.
Has anyone applied an anti-glare screen protector to an iPhone that they tried? Especially wondering about the "better" ones, i.e. non-ProMotion.
This isn't about PWM, since it won't reduce the flickering, but, perhaps the glare with those screens is an additional dimension to these problems that we're seeing; I personally have only used anti-glare screen protectors for the past years, and every time I look at screens without them for longer, I notice how visible glare is, and how it affects my eyes' focus ... I wouldn't want to use a phone without an anti-glare screen protector anymore.
Has anyone applied an anti-glare screen protector to an iPhone that they tried? Especially wondering about the "better" ones, i.e. non-ProMotion.
This isn't about PWM, since it won't reduce the flickering, but, perhaps the glare with those screens is an additional dimension to these problems that we're seeing; I personally have only used anti-glare screen protectors for the past years, and every time I look at screens without them for longer, I notice how visible glare is, and how it affects my eyes' focus ... I wouldn't want to use a phone without an anti-glare screen protector anymore.
Is the antiglare screen protector you recommend a film or is it tempered glass? What brand?
The reflectivity of the glass by default is already quite low. In theory even less glare could cut down on bias from environmental lighting.
I do think auto-brightness is a necessary function since too bright or dim of a display leads to additional eye strain.
That being said, I’ve locked the brightness to 40% without using RWP and my experience has been good—although I did just get a tension headache before I finished typing that. I think one of my main issues with iPhone 14 Pro Max is having to adapt to two different PWM rates, so it’s possible the consistent 60Hz flicker on iPhone 14 Plus will help.
I would be shocked if I can use a flickering iPhone without issues, but the 60Hz rate on Apple Watch causing zero sensitivity has me more curious. Truth be told I also like the Blue color and don’t mind the notch as a design element.
I do think auto-brightness is a necessary function since too bright or dim of a display leads to additional eye strain.
That being said, I’ve locked the brightness to 40% without using RWP and my experience has been good—although I did just get a tension headache before I finished typing that. I think one of my main issues with iPhone 14 Pro Max is having to adapt to two different PWM rates, so it’s possible the consistent 60Hz flicker on iPhone 14 Plus will help.
I would be shocked if I can use a flickering iPhone without issues, but the 60Hz rate on Apple Watch causing zero sensitivity has me more curious. Truth be told I also like the Blue color and don’t mind the notch as a design element.
I look forward to your review of the 14 plus next month
I went to an apple store the other day and oh my god I think they are producing weapons instead of screens.
"A light emitting diode (LED) incapacitator is a weapon designed like a flashlight. It emits an extremely bright, rapid, and well-focused series of "differently-colored random pulses". Before human eyes can focus in on one frequency, another frequency comes on, causing intracranial pressure, which results in headache, nausea, vomiting, disorientation, irritability, and visual impairment to the target."
Light emitting diode (LED) incapacitator
"A light emitting diode (LED) incapacitator is a weapon designed like a flashlight. It emits an extremely bright, rapid, and well-focused series of "differently-colored random pulses". Before human eyes can focus in on one frequency, another frequency comes on, causing intracranial pressure, which results in headache, nausea, vomiting, disorientation, irritability, and visual impairment to the target."
Light emitting diode (LED) incapacitator
I agree, i was not able to be in the store, after i tried iphone 14 pro at home..
I couldn’t even use my 13 Pro as a camera.
Thankfully I can still use my 14 Pro max that way. I even watched a movie on it the other day. I’m also using it now. I did get a headache from watching the movie. But I downloaded that movie before I had my accident of hitting my head and I really wanted to see it before Amazon yanked it from my downloads.
But I’m no longer comfortably adjusted to my 14 Pro Max since I slammed my head into the doorknob. I’m not comfortable on my iPhone 11 either. Unfortunately I have emails to deal with and school administrators and my mom’s care coordinator don’t care if I might have a concussion. They need my prompt correspondence, not excuses.
My husband insists I don’t have a concussion, anyway. On what basis, I don’t know. We’re just like this as a couple. I’ll catch a virus and be coughing until I fall over, wheezing desperately for breath. “I think I might have pneumonia or bronchitis.” Him: “No you don’t.” Actually, it turned out my asthma was triggered. So we were both wrong. 😆 He does it to himself, too.
I remember once when he got sick, I looked at his symptoms and said “I am worried you might have strep.” Him: “No I don’t.” 🙄 I can’t say for sure what HE had, but I know from taking our kid to the pediatrician that strep got into the house somehow. 🤔
We all were talking about what we want for Christmas this year. I just want fuzzy pajamas and slippers and socks. But I warned everyone that if there’s an iPhone SE based on the Xr this spring, I’m going to want it for Mother’s Day.
It’s almost a tradition now, I get an OLED iPhone in the Fall. It makes me sick by winter, and I get an LCD iPhone for Mother’s Day. That makes my vision flicker so badly that by Fall I am willing to try a new OLED iPhone again. That’s a pretty good racket Apple is operating there! 😜
I picked up an SE 2022 as well, replacing my 13 pro since the oled was always just a tad bit uncomfortable.
I didn’t realize how much I’d like this phone!
The display is great, I like the smaller size, I’m loving the return to touchid… the only thing I kind of miss is the 120hz display. Scrolling Facebook, for example, looks a bit rough on this phone when it was so fluid on my 13 pro.
It's a film, not tempered glass ... I haven't found a tempered glass anti-glare screen protector yet.
I use the one that the Apple Stores have; they only have one type/brand; it's a Belkin one, and they apply it for you with their applicator machine. I don't mind this at all, but most importantly, it really cuts down on glare.
The iPhones don't have antireflective coating, like the iPad Pros do, and the difference is noticeable to me