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Thanks, that might be enough to push me towards iPhone 14 if I try another iPhone this generation—which I probably will, even if I’d like to be content with my iPhone SE. I’d guess that amplitudes are lower as well.
It could have just been screen lottery though. The 14 had an overly yellow display which makes the display a little softer and washed out. The 14 Plus had a reddish tint which I find makes everything have stronger contrast. I crave cool blue whites personally.
 
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Screen lottery is so real. Has anyone tried the same phone 2 or 3 times?
It’s possible for the displays to look better or worse based on preference, but the flickering should remain exactly the same as it’s programmed into the display engine.

In my experience one display can look good while another can look subjectively amazing on the same device, with no difference in headaches.
 
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It’s possible for the displays to look better or worse based on preference, but the flickering should remain exactly the same as it’s programmed into the display engine.

In my experience one display can look good while another can look subjectively amazing on the same device, with no difference in headaches.
I do think all things combined equals the experience. Looking at a poorly calibrated display even without PWM, or a screen that is too bright, can cause eye strain and lead to a headache. For me, I’m thinking screen manufacturer and calibration tolerances is adding to the issue. I’m convinced, to meet demand, that Apple is letting a lot of displays onto the market that are on the edge of acceptable tolerances. And Samsung are more than happy to push out OLEDs that look like a rainbow when tilted slightly. Too red, too yellow, too green - I’ve seen them all. The iPad 12.9 miniLED is the best looking modern display as they have clean bright white displays with great contrast and clarity (ignoring the bloom) but still affect my vision sadly.
 
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I do think all things combined equals the experience. Looking at a poorly calibrated display even without PWM, or a screen that is too bright, can cause eye strain and lead to a headache. For me, I’m thinking screen manufacturer and calibration tolerances is adding to the issue. I’m convinced, to meet demand, that Apple is letting a lot of displays onto the market that are on the edge of acceptable tolerances. And Samsung are more than happy to push out OLEDs that look like a rainbow when tilted slightly. Too red, too yellow, too green - I’ve seen them all. The iPad 12.9 miniLED is the best looking modern display as they have clean bright white displays with great contrast and clarity (ignoring the bloom) but still affect my vision sadly.

I can speak to that. Outside of the PWM realm- I bought an SE2022 a month ago and it was flawless for my eyes, no issues at all (as would be expected). I stupidly returned it because I wanted to try a 13 Mini.... I quickly regretted that not just because of the OLED screen, but realized I actually like the SE better- so I bought another SE that I've been using for a week. On that phone, it makes my eyes feel dry and irritated, sort of a dry/burning sensation. Not severe, but happens every time I use the phone- and it started the moment I started setting it up out of the box.

Clearly there has to be something different about the display on this one vs. the one I had a few weeks ago, even though they are both the same model.

I am sure there is that sort of difference between two phones of the same model in the OLED universe as well, which makes all of this even more difficult.
 
Screen lottery is so real. Has anyone tried the same phone 2 or 3 times?
I tried a 14 Pro twice. The second time was better because the screen was warmer and I didn't feel like I was always having to fight the intense bright white and exaggerated contrast. I still sent the second one back though, because it wasn't good enough symptom wise.
 
All I can say is the 14 was the closets I’ve been to owning an OLED iPhone as I used for a week off and on and didn’t get a headache. I was left with a queasy unease which, coupled with the returns period countdown anxiety, had me returning. Also I didn’t like the OLED glare and light shimmer on my vision + the screen was overly yellow. I’m still convinced the 14 could be the one for most, so much so I really want to try one again. But I’ve already returned 2 x iPhones this year (14 and 14 Pro) and can’t face the walk of shame again.
This.
 
Sometimes I fear it will appear as if I/we are gaming the system, but honestly before Apple put PWM/OLED on its phones, I just pre-ordered, picked-up launch day, and happily sang the praises of Apple. I truly believe that we PWM-sensitve lot are strategizing because we are trying to make Apple work well with us again but have learned from all the literal pain we have experienced. We are not malicious. We are cautious.
I remember back in those days (iPhone 4 - 7) my employer used to upgrade us all each year. A new iPhone would come out, IT would come by the next week and drop the box off on my desk. I happily transferred everything over and went about my business. I never once gave a second thought to the screen. Right about the time I changed jobs is when the iPhone X came out. So the first iPhone I purchased myself was the first one to cause me problems. Had the XR not come out the next year, I'm not even sure I would still be using an iPhone at all. I miss the simpler times!
 
I can speak to that. Outside of the PWM realm- I bought an SE2022 a month ago and it was flawless for my eyes, no issues at all (as would be expected). I stupidly returned it because I wanted to try a 13 Mini.... I quickly regretted that not just because of the OLED screen, but realized I actually like the SE better- so I bought another SE that I've been using for a week. On that phone, it makes my eyes feel dry and irritated, sort of a dry/burning sensation. Not severe, but happens every time I use the phone- and it started the moment I started setting it up out of the box.

Clearly there has to be something different about the display on this one vs. the one I had a few weeks ago, even though they are both the same model.

I am sure there is that sort of difference between two phones of the same model in the OLED universe as well, which makes all of this even more difficult.

I wonder if your eyes or your nervous system are more irritated now after using the mini for a while? I have noticed differences in screens on the same model phone, however. Not sure.
 
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There has been a lot of discussion on here about how the slow-mo video of a display is not really the most telling thing about how good or bad the flicker on a phone might be.

With that in mind, as a curious test when I briefly had both a 13 Pro and and 13 Mini, I took slow-mo video of each. The 13 Pro had no visible flicker or lines moving up/down the screen, at any brightness level I tested. The 13 Mini, however flickered like crazy at every brightness level (even 100%).

I am not all that well versed in all of this, but it was interesting as I have seen it posted here that the 13 Mini seems to be the most gentle of the 13 series in regards to flicker and the modulation. Also, the 13 Pro seemed slightly easier on my eyes- it's the phone I've been using for the last year, with just occasional strain. the 13 Mini seemed to have more of a "bite" on my eyes when scrolling.

Any thoughts on why the slow-mo video would look so different between these two? I am just curious as I try to understand what is really going to be best for me going forward.

I really prefer smaller phones, so the 13 Mini seems great- perfect size, but wow that flicker looks like it can't be good for the eyes. My other option is an SE- which I actually also picked up and really, really like.
 
There has been a lot of discussion on here about how the slow-mo video of a display is not really the most telling thing about how good or bad the flicker on a phone might be.

With that in mind, as a curious test when I briefly had both a 13 Pro and and 13 Mini, I took slow-mo video of each. The 13 Pro had no visible flicker or lines moving up/down the screen, at any brightness level I tested. The 13 Mini, however flickered like crazy at every brightness level (even 100%).

I am not all that well versed in all of this, but it was interesting as I have seen it posted here that the 13 Mini seems to be the most gentle of the 13 series in regards to flicker and the modulation. Also, the 13 Pro seemed slightly easier on my eyes- it's the phone I've been using for the last year, with just occasional strain. the 13 Mini seemed to have more of a "bite" on my eyes when scrolling.

Any thoughts on why the slow-mo video would look so different between these two? I am just curious as I try to understand what is really going to be best for me going forward.

I really prefer smaller phones, so the 13 Mini seems great- perfect size, but wow that flicker looks like it can't be good for the eyes. My other option is an SE- which I actually also picked up and really, really like.
Okay, so the simple explanation is that the PWM rate of the display aligns perfectly with the slow-motion recording of 240fps. iPhone 13 Pro has a 480Hz rate throughout most of its brightness range, whereas iPhone 13 Mini is 510Hz.

While the slightly higher rate of iPhone 13 Mini should cause less strain in theory, iPhone 13 Pro appears flawless--which also has a benefit when recording for film. It's the same conundrum with the 240Hz/480Hz rate of iPhone 14 Pro not being discernible on camera, whereas 60Hz on iPhone 14 is slow enough to appear as tangible flickering.

I've noticed Apple Watch's flickering is surprisingly visible on camera, and sharp enough in that it appears as a fast-moving line across the display.
 
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I would love to see the stats on this thread. iPhone X ?!?!? It’s been 5 years now. This thread has obviously morphed into something else. Holy!!
 
need advice here, should I give 14 or 14plus a try next? I feel like the reviews here are very mixed on all models. I was able to locate a 14 Pro Max in my local store today, but given my negative experience with 14 pro, not sure if it's worth a try.
 
need advice here, should I give 14 or 14plus a try next? I feel like the reviews here are very mixed on all models. I was able to locate a 14 Pro Max in my local store today, but given my negative experience with 14 pro, not sure if it's worth a try.
My only advice is to give it some time if you try the device. Unless of course it bothers you right away and you need to return it. But with I tried the regular 14 things were really good for a while and then towards the end of the two week period I started getting dizzy. Some folks here are waiting to try the new phones when Apple has the holiday return window where you get longer than two weeks. Everybody is reacting differently to these different models of the 14 series.
 
My only advice is to give it some time if you try the device. Unless of course it bothers you right away and you need to return it. But with I tried the regular 14 things were really good for a while and then towards the end of the two week period I started getting dizzy. Some folks here are waiting to try the new phones when Apple has the holiday return window where you get longer than two weeks. Everybody is reacting differently to these different models of the 14 series.
Thanks! With Pro I had mild symptoms from the beginning, and towards the end of the 2 weeks, my eyes were okay but the constant dizziness and fullness in the head was unbearable. Ideally I guess I could start with the Pro max since I like the pro features, but I really hate the return/re-purchase process. Really annoying.

As for the extended holiday return window, not sure if that would help me since I'm doing a trade in with my carrier(Verizon), and I think I still have to make up my minds at 14 days mark..
 
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Thanks! With Pro I had mild symptoms from the beginning, and towards the end of the 2 weeks, my eyes were okay but the constant dizziness and fullness in the head was unbearable. Ideally I guess I could start with the Pro max since I like the pro features, but I really hate the return/re-purchase process. Really annoying.

As for the extended holiday return window, not sure if that would help me since I'm doing a trade in with my carrier(Verizon), and I think I still have to make up my minds at 14 days mark..
And if you do the trade in and want to do the return, then you're stuck without a phone? Or you have to pick something else?
 
I can speak to that. Outside of the PWM realm- I bought an SE2022 a month ago and it was flawless for my eyes, no issues at all (as would be expected). I stupidly returned it because I wanted to try a 13 Mini.... I quickly regretted that not just because of the OLED screen, but realized I actually like the SE better- so I bought another SE that I've been using for a week. On that phone, it makes my eyes feel dry and irritated, sort of a dry/burning sensation. Not severe, but happens every time I use the phone- and it started the moment I started setting it up out of the box.

Clearly there has to be something different about the display on this one vs. the one I had a few weeks ago, even though they are both the same model.

I am sure there is that sort of difference between two phones of the same model in the OLED universe as well, which makes all of this even more difficult.
Is it possible they enabled temporal dithering on ios 16 and you had your previous SE on ios 15? I'm perfectly fine with my 2018 iPad pro on iPadOS 15, as soon as I installed iPadOS 16 I noticed immediate eye tiredness (and i guess it's most likely dithering than "new" pwm), I downgraded right away and now I'm stuck on iPadOS 15.7 indefinitely
 
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Is it possible they enabled temporal dithering on ios 16 and you had your previous SE on ios 15? I'm perfectly fine with my 2018 iPad pro on iPadOS 15, as soon as I installed iPadOS 16 I noticed immediate eye tiredness (and i guess it's most likely dithering than "new" pwm), I downgraded right away and now I'm stuck on iPadOS 15.7 indefinitely

Actually I had IOS 16 on the first SE I had as well- I installed it right out of the gate when setting it up as it was already out at that time. No differences in OS, in brightness settings, anything at all like that. My only thought is the screen lottery- that I had a good one on that first SE, and a not so good one this time.

I think I will buy another (I need to upgrade storage capacity anyway) here before my return window closes- though Apple has none available at any local store and it's a 2-3 week wait for delivery, my carrier has them in stock so I will probably go that route.
 
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And if you do the trade in and want to do the return, then you're stuck without a phone? Or you have to pick something else?
I received the trade in kit but I waited till almost the last minute possible to see if I can keep the new phone. When I initiated the return for 14P on the website, the trade-in request was also canceled. So I'm back on my 11 now.
 
With Pro I had mild symptoms from the beginning, and towards the end of the 2 weeks, my eyes were okay but the constant dizziness and fullness in the head was unbearable.
The dizziness and fullness in the head is mostly what I had with trying out both the pro and the regular 14. A little bit of eyestrain as well. The 14 Pro I also had motion sickness. I never really had any profound headaches unlike maybe most of the folks here. But the dizziness could be intense
 
The dizziness and fullness in the head is mostly what I had with trying out both the pro and the regular 14. A little bit of eyestrain as well. The 14 Pro I also had motion sickness. I never really had any profound headaches unlike maybe most of the folks here. But the dizziness could be intense
Me, too!

I also found an odd reaction: I’d sometimes have tension in my chest. Think it was related to a motion sickness or reaction to flickering. Just felt like my body was stressed. Not having a heart attack. Just an odd almost vibration. Had it more with the 14 PM than the 14P. But I don’t ever get that with my 11. Ever.

…and I really need to remember that as I keep checking stock to try the 14PM again. 😳
 
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Me, too!

I also found an odd reaction: I’d sometimes have tension in my chest. Think it was related to a motion sickness or reaction to flickering. Just felt like my body was stressed. Not having a heart attack. Just an odd almost vibration. Had it more with the 14 PM than the 14P. But I don’t ever get that with my 11. Ever.

…and I really need to remember that as I keep checking stock to try the 14PM again. 😳
I know what you’re saying, I feel like I mildly experienced that as well on occasion.
 
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