Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Tb87Bln]

Well, I see Apple announced today that the holiday return period has begun!

Holiday Return Policy
Items purchased at the Apple Online Store that are received between November 4, 2022 and December 25, 2022, may be returned through January 8, 2023. Please note that all other terms and conditions provided in the Apple Online Store Sales and Refunds Policy are still applicable with respect to such items purchased. Items purchased by carrier financing are not eligible for extended returns and are subject to the Standard Return Policy. All purchases made after December 25, 2022 are subject to the Standard Return Policy.

Returns & Refunds - Shopping Help

Find out how you can return an item, how long the refund process takes, what to do if your invoice is not with your order, and much more.

www.apple.com

Bad timing… just got mine 2 days ago…😵‍💫
I guess 2 weeks have to be enough time to decide..

 

[Tb87Bln]

Good luck! Did you try other 14 models? If so how did those go?

No, I only tried out the 14 pro… and I guess it’s that one or my old IPhone 12 Pro…

After using it today again for a couple of hours my eyes feel pretty dry and there might be a hint of a headache… but today has been a long and tiresome day for my eyes with lots of reading of small writing anyways… (did something similar on Tuesday and didn’t feel much better without the new phone)
It would have been the ultimate test but now I am still undecided and unsure about eyes strain…

I am a little bummed that I just missed out on the extended return period (I thought it would be closer to the end of November so I didn’t want to wait that long) It would have left me with a little more peace of mind and flexibility…

But I guess 2 weeks should be enough to decide… even though right now I lean towards returning it because it is quite expensive and better to err on the side of caution…
but I haven’t lost all hope just yet… everything is still open…

 

[jimmy_uk]

I tried the MBA as well, which I wouldn’t have done had I not been getting headaches from the MBP. While I liked it, the MBP felt like such a drastic upgrade that has all the features I wanted in an even more premium build. Maybe a mistake keeping the MBP, but I still maintain that it’s amazing besides the PWM.

I’ve tried setting my MBP aside for a few days and using iPhone 14PM by itself. I can tell the display still has the ability to cause headaches, but a lot of my persistent headaches are being caused by using the MBP surprisingly enough. Regardless, I think I still need an iPhone that’s better than iPhone 14 PM in terms of flicker. Will I resist the temptation to test iPhone 14?

14PM back to Apple. Try the 14. You can change your mind later. 👍 itch scratched

 

[happy orchard]

I was in town again so I popped into the Apple store. I really wanted to make a decision on what iPad I could use to complement an SE 2022. The larger iPads all seem pointless to me if not used on the magic keyboard, then if I was going to use it this way I might as well have a MBA M2. But the iPad Mini 6 really speaks to me because you can one hand it and that's important to me.

The larger iPads demand two-hand usage or resting it on something, and you have to hold it further away from your body to read vs a phone. They are too big for me as they are just blown-up mobile devices but the Mini 6 is a different ball game. After 10 minutes of trying to force myself to use Mini 6 in landscape only (because in portrait mode the jelly scroll is so bad), I felt the weight pulling sideways when trying to use it one-handed. This iPad screams to be used in portrait like a plus-sized phone but the bendy jelly scroll is unbearable, and now with the increased price I can't do it. I will never be able to live with the jelly scroll, it will just pish me off every time. No iPads for me.

Over to the phones again. I only want a Pro Max. That's it: no iPad, Macbook or settling for an SE. Even using the SE 2022 in landscape I can see bad jelly scroll and I would want to use it this way from time to time because the display is so small in portrait. The Pro Max gives me everything I want in a mobile computing device. Should I try one over the Christmas extended returns period?

The 14 Pro was brutal on me so I have the strongest doubts I should bother with the 14PM, but it might be a scratch I have to itch. After that.........?

Go for it!

 

[WalterSobchak]

I just messed with a pro max for the first time, its a huge phone. I mean, shockingly so, and heavy. That said, it was very nice and immersive. My SE felt like a toy afterwards. am personally fine with that as prefer a smaller device in my day to day - but i totally see the appeal in a huge powerful long lasting phablet with some boss cameras.

Its not the phone i would currently get as i have a very active lifestyle and a dainty pinky that told me it doesn't want to support all that weight. But at home it would be perfect

But it was impressive, shame it just gets erased from the equation.... it coulda be a contender.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Totally agree about the Pro Max weight but it would the cross to bare to have a device that can be a mobile phone and mini tablet. That said, I'd happily ditch the giant camera module as they are getting ridiculous! If I was an iPad user a 14 Mini or 14 would be perfect, if PWM wasn't an issue......

Always feel deflated after an Apple store visit.

14 Pro Max - Perfect device for my needs = PWM.

iPad Mini - the ipad that feels like a Plus Plus iPhone = jelly scroll. (Still shocked some don't see it).

Why Apple, why 😩

-----------------------

If Samsung had physical stores in the UK + offered a no quibble returns policy like Apple, I would be working through their products to try and find a device that worked for me. Sticking with Apple feels like I'm punishing myself especially after a store visit. So many fantastic products, all held back with odd software and hardware choices (like the screen in the ipad Mini 6 = cheap and controller orientation choice).

 

[Chrispy]

This thread is giving me flashbacks to the G4 PowerBook days. Those things had so many screen issues, and I went through no less than seven with either dead/stuck pixels or very uneven backlighting. Apple eventually told me I couldn't exchange any more and I would have to live with the dead pixels if another came that way. At the time, Apple considered less than nine bad pixels to be in spec, so I gave up on Apple displays for a few years. By the time I came back, Apple had moved to Intel and unibody MacBooks and it was an exciting new world. It really feels like we hit a sweet spot for awhile when LCD retina displays were standard in everything. Now it seems like we're regressing back to having to carefully look into the display used in each device. Sad that even MacBooks and iPads aren't safe anymore depending on what you are sensitive to. The thought has crossed my mind to look into the Studio Display, but then I worry there's something weird lurking within that thing as well, haha.

 

[MICHAELSD]

iPhone SE is such a successful little iPhone. I use it for all the best aspects of a smartphone and it works well, with zero desire to distract myself with Angry Birds or Disney+.

That flickering OLED is so mesmerizing that it almost makes me not want to stare up from it, especially at the Max size. Although oddly iPhone 13 Mini had a display that popped even more.

 

[MICHAELSD]

14PM back to Apple. Try the 14. You can change your mind later. 👍 itch scratched

I might just check it out in an Apple Store first. To be fair I would be surprised if I didn’t get tempted to order one this holiday season, but at the same time it would be beneficial to keep iPhone SE for another year. As a life experiment it’s a winner.

 

[5105973]

This thread is giving me flashbacks to the G4 PowerBook days. Those things had so many screen issues, and I went through no less than seven with either dead/stuck pixels or very uneven backlighting. Apple eventually told me I couldn't exchange any more and I would have to live with the dead pixels if another came that way. At the time, Apple considered less than nine bad pixels to be in spec, so I gave up on Apple displays for a few years. By the time I came back, Apple had moved to Intel and unibody MacBooks and it was an exciting new world. It really feels like we hit a sweet spot for awhile when LCD retina displays were standard in everything. Now it seems like we're regressing back to having to carefully look into the display used in each device. Sad that even MacBooks and iPads aren't safe anymore depending on what you are sensitive to. The thought has crossed my mind to look into the Studio Display, but then I worry there's something weird lurking within that thing as well, haha.

My husband has the Studio Display. I’ll go give it a look next chance I get. I remember it did look nice and clear. Unfortunately it’s hard for me to spend much time on it because that’s hooked up to his work machine and there’s not much for me to look at on it. I’ll get at most a few minutes.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I find it interesting how PWM sensitivity is noteworthy in Europe and Asia to the point that smartphone manufacturers highlight a higher rate in the display specifications at the keynote:

 

[5105973]

I just messed with a pro max for the first time, its a huge phone. I mean, shockingly so, and heavy. That said, it was very nice and immersive. My SE felt like a toy afterwards. am personally fine with that as prefer a smaller device in my day to day - but i totally see the appeal in a huge powerful long lasting phablet with some boss cameras.

Its not the phone i would currently get as i have a very active lifestyle and a dainty pinky that told me it doesn't want to support all that weight. But at home it would be perfect

But it was impressive, shame it just gets erased from the equation.... it coulda be a contender.

I have a clear case and a stick on ring that helps me hold the phone without straining my hand. I got used to carrying this 14 Pro Max around like I did my SE 2022. It does drag my pocket down but I have learned to tune it out and just automatically keep adjusting my jeans.

I don’t dare carry my Pixel 6 Pro or S22 Ultra around in pockets like this, but the 14 Pro Max feels so sturdy. I’m so glad Apple never went with curved displays. And I’m super happy they went back to perfectly flat display glass. Long may it reign!

I’ve mostly been using my 11 Pro lately. Nevertheless something’s wrong with me. I was working on cleaning out a storage closet with my husband yesterday when I got a severe headache and nausea at the same time. I had to lie down immediately for awhile. I don’t think this has anything to do with the phones, though. I never bounced back after my last virus. I feel inflammation all through my body and joints. It’s been weeks and even the kids are still not well, with really ugly coughs. Not just my kids, either but their friends.

What’s weird is after my last bout of Covid I felt fantastic after I was fully recovered. My autoimmune disorders took a break and left me alone. But that last non Covid virus made me worse than ever. I can’t really evaluate anything properly.

I’m sure hitting my head real hard a couple of weeks ago didn’t help, either.

At the moment I AM on the 14 Pro Max. The cats have been excited about Fall cleaning and doing lots of picture worthy cute things. So I’ve kept this phone on me and at the ready. I use the 2x zoom a lot and the 3X zoom a slightly less amount but still daily. I’m glad I can at least look at the display long enough to use the camera to my heart’s content.

 

[1369281]

I found out tonight that the team at Apple who works on their display technology is the Panel Process and Optics (PPO) Engineering Team.

One step closer to reaching someone who could influence the decision to stop using PWM.

Here is the full quote from someone who works at Applied Materials:

PPO is what Apple call their display tech.
3 generations behind Japan Display, and 5 gen behind LG Display.

Cos they hired worst monkeys from my company. The rejects from our AKT, Solar & SPG divisions.

Apple PPO will the the first and only division at AAPL to have total 100% layoff and division shutdown this downturn

The source obviously does not think too highly of the people who work on this team. That aligns with what we have seen in these iPhones for the last 5 generations...

Same person said this about Apple outsourcing their panels from Japan Display, LG Display, Samsung Display, etc.:

That’s the reason APPL had to outsource their display for all products.

And the reason why you are not going to get thin, flip, fold and edge free products from any Apple releases.

Also the reason why you will be paying $2000 for an iPhone by 2025

Yikes.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I found out tonight that the team at Apple who works on their display technology is the Panel Process and Optics (PPO) Engineering Team.

One step closer to reaching someone who could influence the decision to stop using PWM.

Here is the full quote:


The source obviously does not think too highly of the people who work on this team. That aligns with what we have seen in these iPhones for the last 5 generations...

Same person said this about Apple outsourcing their panels from Japan Display, LG Display, Samsung Display, etc.:

I’m not too happy with the liberal use of PWM. Apple used to prioritize flicker-free displays.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I found out tonight that the team at Apple who works on their display technology is the Panel Process and Optics (PPO) Engineering Team.

One step closer to reaching someone who could influence the decision to stop using PWM.

Here is the full quote from someone who works at Applied Materials:


The source obviously does not think too highly of the people who work on this team. That aligns with what we have seen in these iPhones for the last 5 generations...

Same person said this about Apple outsourcing their panels from Japan Display, LG Display, Samsung Display, etc.:



Yikes.

Wow. Do you have a link the article?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’m still extremely sensitive to PWM and this may not be ideal, but I notice when I put contacts in it helps slightly as my eyes are adjusting to both the contacts and the display at the same time.

Edit: nope, still plenty of throbbing on iPhone 14PM.

The MacBook Pro is disappointing as I would probably have such a better experience if it wasn’t for that also having PWM flickering.

I’m considering ordering an Apple Watch Ultra, and don’t want to get stuck with another PWM-dictated display.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Wow. Do you have a link the article?

Normally I would say that’s a shame since the displays look amazing, but they’re literally thrashing our nervous systems and ridiculously uncomfortable to stare at. I’d like to see Apple have a display team that doesn’t view PWM as a viable option for brightness control.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I’m still extremely sensitive to PWM and this may not be ideal, but I notice when I put contacts in it helps slightly as my eyes are adjusting to both the contacts and the display at the same time.

Edit: nope, still plenty of throbbing on iPhone 14PM.

The MacBook Pro is disappointing as I would probably have such a better experience if it wasn’t for that also having PWM flickering.

I’m considering ordering an Apple Watch Ultra, and don’t want to get stuck with another PWM-dictated display.

If I could get a new iphone I would also get the AW Ultra. Like the PM, it's the Apple watch I've always wanted with its chunky industrial design.

 

[MICHAELSD]

If I could get a new iphone I would also get the AW Ultra. Like the PM, it's the Apple watch I've always wanted with its chunky industrial design.

Why not get the Ultra anyway? It’s not the worst compromise paired to a LCD iPhone, as at least it optimistically has a PWM-free OLED like the standard Apple Watch.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Why not get the Ultra anyway? It’s not the worst compromise paired to a LCD iPhone, as at least it optimistically has a PWM-free OLED like the standard Apple Watch.

I'm still sitting in the camp of: if I can't have a new flagship iPhone then I'm not sure I want to invest in the Eco Sytem any further.

Over the past 5 years I gave up on ipads as I preferred to use my phone most of the time. My SS Apple watch suffered with an expanded battery so it's dead. Because I haven't been able to upgrade to any OLED iphone I've held off investing in a newer watch and/or iPad/Macbook. My thinking is that I'm able to switch to the Android Eco system if a viable option presents itself. Sadly this hasn't happened as all the Android options also have terrible PWM.

Wanting to stick with iOS has left me in a never ending limbo. If I'm spending money on a new phone it has to be better than my current 7 Plus, this kills off cheaper LCD iPhones and Android options as they have small displays or are under 1080p resolution or have terrible processors. It's a credit to the old Apple that my 7 Plus has held up so well for all these years but it is slowing and I'm missing out on newer features in a big way.

Do you think you will settle on SE and AWU for 2023?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Well, i almost went an ordered a 14 plus but didn’t want to experience the almost guaranteed disappointment when the inevitable nausea and headaches began.

So I purchased a mini 6 yesterday. I’ll just have that paired with my SE2022 and spare my ocular nerves for another year

I’ll absolutely pick up a next gen SE as long as it’s LCD and a larger screen/battery when the mood so strikes me.

I’m far too invested in the ecosystem to leave now, and I haven’t been forced out yet.

I’ve been using my XR as a tiny ipad with texting capability and it’s been working great for me at work and in my gym at home. (And using a hotspot while on the go) The iPad will simply upsize my current configuration so I have high hopes.

 

[john g.]

PwmMen and AJTC

Last we heard you were both having good luck with your 14 and 14+.

Just checking in if they are still doing you right?

Some of us are slightly tempted with the holiday return policy in effect

 

[jimmy_uk]

Placing an order for 14 now. I was just trying my family member's 13 again and felt completely okay (with Pro versions the moment I look at the screen I felt something at my temples, it's a really weird feeling but happens every time with a pro screen facing me).

I hope the 14 will work out for me..

Let us know how you get on.

 

[Mr.Simple]

I find it interesting how PWM sensitivity is noteworthy in Europe and Asia to the point that smartphone manufacturers highlight a higher rate in the display specifications at the keynote:

I would be not to optimistic about it. I have tried the Xiaomi 12T Pro in the store that also has a advertised PWM Frequency of up to 1920 Hz and some eye health certification. It makes me more problems after 10-15 min than a Galaxy S22 Ultra. It's a OLED Display from TCL. So i hope that the new generation from Samsung Display and BOE with high PWM frequency will really make a difference.

I have also tried the 14 Plus in the store and this was enough to me to know that this will be also no option for me. Had trouble to focus on text after short time of use

 

[jm31828]

iPhone SE is such a successful little iPhone. I use it for all the best aspects of a smartphone and it works well, with zero desire to distract myself with Angry Birds or Disney+.

That flickering OLED is so mesmerizing that it almost makes me not want to stare up from it, especially at the Max size. Although oddly iPhone 13 Mini had a display that popped even more.

How so on the 13 popping the most?
Seemed sharper, better colors?