Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jm31828]

I can speak to that. Outside of the PWM realm- I bought an SE2022 a month ago and it was flawless for my eyes, no issues at all (as would be expected). I stupidly returned it because I wanted to try a 13 Mini.... I quickly regretted that not just because of the OLED screen, but realized I actually like the SE better- so I bought another SE that I've been using for a week. On that phone, it makes my eyes feel dry and irritated, sort of a dry/burning sensation. Not severe, but happens every time I use the phone- and it started the moment I started setting it up out of the box.

Clearly there has to be something different about the display on this one vs. the one I had a few weeks ago, even though they are both the same model.

I am sure there is that sort of difference between two phones of the same model in the OLED universe as well, which makes all of this even more difficult.

My situation is so odd, it's not necessarily PWM-related but is still eye discomfort.

As noted above, I had an SE 2022 for the last couple of weeks, and it always gives me a bit of a dry/mild burning sensation in my eyes when I use it. Nothing bad, and it doesn't give me headaches or anything like that- but it doesn't make sense why it does this on a basic LCD phone with no PWM!

As noted I had an SE about a month ago that I had no trouble with, as I returned it thinking I might like the 13 Mini instead- which I quickly returned.

Well I returned the SE today and bought another SE from my carrier- got a good deal with $150 off in special incentives I had on my account and wasn't even aware of, so it was a great, cheap purchase.
However, disappointingly- I have the exact same sensation when using this one. Not sure why I didn't have any trouble with the first SE I had a month ago, but these last two I did! Same settings on all three, same brightness levels, same IOS version, etc.

The only thing I can think of is that maybe I'm just going through a period with my eyes where they are a bit more sensitive, and it's not really the phone per se that is problematic, maybe it would do this now with ANY phone I used? Hard to say....
I am sitting here typing this on my 27" iMac and have zero issues, so it is so bizarre to then look at the display on my SE and have these symptoms hit almost immediately.


So, now that I bought this from my carrier vs. from Apple, returns are not really an option unless I wanted to jump through a bunch of hoops and pay a restocking fee, so I will use it for a few weeks and see if I adjust as I would certainly think I would to a simple, PWM-free LCD. (I love the phone otherwise and would hope to be able to keep it)


One thing I was thinking of is now that we are in the Apple holiday return period, if I might- after 3 weeks or so once I see if these symptoms go away- is to buy a 13 Mini from Apple (LOVE the small size of the Mini and SE, went with SE this time around to get away from OLED as I suspect I have mild PWM sensitivity or at least some sort of sensitivity to the sharpness/brightness of the OLED panels) and try it out alongside the SE for a month or so and see if I feel it is actually better, or in fact worse for me than the SE. I could return the Mini to Apple at some point before the end of the return period if it is just not working out or I don't like it, or if for some reason it's actually an improvement- keep it and then just sell the SE (since I effectively only paid just over $300 for it after the discounts, I could likely get my money back on it that way)

But, I feel so guilty with all of this returning- my wife jokes that the people at my local Apple store know who I am when I walk in the door now since I've been there 3 times to return phones in the last month. . Of course that isn't the case, but I just feel like I'm gaming the system by making all of these returns.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Gaaaaa.....tempted to give the standard 14 another go as it was the easiest to use (One last chance 🤷‍♂️). The 14PM has a month wait and I don't want to mess about with returns over Christmas/New Years (as shops will be rammed and packages tend to go missing in the mail). Part of my annoyance with the standard 14 was realising I really wanted to stick with a Plus sized iPhone, this was put to bed when trying the 14 Plus as it gave me a bad reaction very fast. Talking myself into trying the standard 14 again really is the last swing for another year (and desperation).

 

[asus389]

Well I know this thread is mostly about PWM and OLED phones. But I have noticed that recent LCDs from Apple are more harsh than the ones from a few years ago. It seems to correspond with them switching to having displays that have true tone or P3 color or some combination of the two. Like for instance I can look at an iPhone 6s or iPad eighth generation neither of which have true tone or P3 color all day long with no issues no matter what the settings are. Same with my 2017 MBP. But even the iPhone 8 or current LCD MacBooks are not quite as comfortable even though it’s a lot better than the OLED screens. If I turn off true tone it’s better in some ways but harsher in other ways. If I turn on True Tone It’s less harsh but irritating in other ways. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Artvandelay1212]

Just try to keep brightness low.

Ok thanks. I had it at about 50%. Maybe going lower will help.

 

[AJTC]

PwmMen and AJTC

Last we heard you were both having good luck with your 14 and 14+.

Just checking in if they are still doing you right?

Some of us are slightly tempted with the holiday return policy in effect

Still getting on fine with my 14. The only issue is bloodshot eyes if I’m using it in a dark room but drops clears them up right away.

You should try it with the extended return policy. @jimmy_uk you should try it too. It was my second attempt with the regular 14 that ended up making me keep it.

 

[john g.]

Still getting on fine with my 14. The only issue is bloodshot eyes if I’m using it in a dark room but drops clears them up right away.

You should try it with the extended return policy. @jimmy_uk you should try it too. It was my second attempt with the regular 14 that ended up making me keep it.

I’m so glad that it is working for you!

I’ve written off the pros because I’ve tried the pro twice. Even though that’s the phone I’d rather have. I did try the 14 and at the end of the two week period I was getting some dizziness so I sent it back.
I have not tried the 14+ but wondered if that would be better because my aging eyes would appreciate larger text and that less eyestrain might count ease overall discomfort.
Seems like some people on the forum get more of reaction from the plus and less from the regular 14. So I have low expectations of either size but feel compelled to actually try the bigger size that I have not personally had in my home.
I went to the Verizon store a week ago and I just tried the plus for a few minutes while waiting for my son to do something at the store. It seemed fine. I went back the next day for a little longer and messed around with the plus and the regular 14 and compared them. My eyes did not appreciate that session. Of course it’s hard to know if that meant the 14 didn’t work well for me or going back and forth. So I am curious but I have low expectations. I love the size of the regular 14 more but I am curious about less eyestrain with a bigger screen and bigger text.

 

[jm31828]

Well I know this thread is mostly about PWM and OLED phones. But I have noticed that recent LCDs from Apple are more harsh than the ones from a few years ago. It seems to correspond with them switching to having displays that have true tone or P3 color or some combination of the two. Like for instance I can look at an iPhone 6s or iPad eighth generation neither of which have true tone or P3 color all day long with no issues no matter what the settings are. Same with my 2017 MBP. But even the iPhone 8 or current LCD MacBooks are not quite as comfortable even though it’s a lot better than the OLED screens. If I turn off true tone it’s better in some ways but harsher in other ways. If I turn on True Tone It’s less harsh but irritating in other ways. 🤷‍♂️

Thank you for mentioning this!
I have had slight OLED sensitivity on the iPhone 13 Pro I had previously, so this time around I felt it would make the most sense to go to an SE with the LCD display (added bonus I MUCH prefer that smaller size anyway).

So far for two weeks I notice different levels of impact- a dry, slight burning sensation in my eyes when using the phone. Some days are better than others, with almost no impact noticed while other days (like yesterday) it's very noticeable.

Certainly not severe, and it doesn't cause headaches, but it can't be good to be causing these symptoms, either.

What types of symptoms do you notice with the more recent LCD's?

 

[happy orchard]

Gaaaaa.....tempted to give the standard 14 another go as it was the easiest to use (One last chance 🤷‍♂️). The 14PM has a month wait and I don't want to mess about with returns over Christmas/New Years (as shops will be rammed and packages tend to go missing in the mail). Part of my annoyance with the standard 14 was realising I really wanted to stick with a Plus sized iPhone, this was put to bed when trying the 14 Plus as it gave me a bad reaction very fast. Talking myself into trying the standard 14 again really is the last swing for another year (and desperation).

I hear you, but I read your words and I think try the 14 Plus. I tried it in two Apple Stores and it was bad. Then I was at a third Apple Store, and off in a corner where the lighting was somehow less bright or calmer, and I actually used the 14Plus for about five minutes with no problems?! After having problems both other times. But I already had in my bag the PM I’d just purchased again.

So when I hear you say that you really want the Plus and you’re willing to try a phone again. And you don’t want to wait for the Max (understandably), maybe maybe maybe try the Plus “since that’s the phone you really want.”

Just want to be a voice saying those words to you, like a coin flip, so you can feel your reaction to them: Do you resist, thinking she isn’t listening? Or do you pause and wonder and think maybe it’s not crazy to try?

Whatever you do 🍀 🍀 🍀

 

[john g.]

I hear you, but I read your words and I think try the 14 Plus. I tried it in two Apple Stores and it was bad. Then I was at a third Apple Store, and off in a corner where the lighting was somehow less bright or calmer, and I actually used the 14Plus for about five minutes with no problems?! After having problems both other times. But I already had in my bag the PM I’d just purchased again.

That makes me feel a bit more encouraged to give to Plus a try. It is hard to evaluate phones in stores!

 

[happy orchard]

That makes me feel a bit more encouraged to give to Plus a try. It is hard to evaluate phones in stores!

It really is. At this point, the ideal I imagine is bringing home all models and using them for a month or two to extensively study real-world use of them. C'mon Apple, make us product testers.

 

[jm31828]

It really is. At this point, the ideal I imagine is bringing home all models and using them for a month or two to extensively study real-world use of them. C'mon Apple, make us product testers.

haha
How many purchases/returns within a month or two period have some of you gone through- do you hit a limit where you think it's too much and you'll end up on a "naughty" list with Apple?

That thought crossed my mind as the holiday return period hit, and I had my own thoughts of picking up one more phone to try out for a month alongside the one I have to see how it works for me.

 

[happy orchard]

haha
How many purchases/returns within a month or two period have some of you gone through- do you hit a limit where you think it's too much and you'll end up on a "naughty" list with Apple?

That thought crossed my mind as the holiday return period hit, and I had my own thoughts of picking up one more phone to try out for a month alongside the one I have to see how it works for me.

I absolutely worry about the 'naughty' list. I don't know if such a list even actually exists. Ultimately, I hope that all of my many other Apple purchases that I make and don't return show Apple my intentions are good. It breaks my heart each time I return an iPhone because I really want to be able to use it without pain and discomfort. I keep trying because I have had such amazing success with other Apple products that I just keep believing that Apple will eventually get these OLED screens right, too. I want to believe that Apple will finally make a screen that doesn't hurt me.

Beyond the phone, I tried to update my iPad Pro 12.9 last year and found that the new screen hurt my eyes. I returned it, ordered a 2020 version (and even kept my old 2018, so I didn't even discount my purchase with a trade-in), and have been good with it. More to the point, knowing that the technology showed no reported change (that I could find), I didn't even try buying the 2022 model. I am trying to be a fair customer.

Good luck with whatever you decide. 🍀

 

[jm31828]

I absolutely worry about the 'naughty' list. I don't know if such a list even actually exists. Ultimately, I hope that all of my many other Apple purchases that I make and don't return show Apple my intentions are good. It breaks my heart each time I return an iPhone because I really want to be able to use it without pain and discomfort. I keep trying because I have had such amazing success with other Apple products that I just keep believing that Apple will eventually get these OLED screens right, too. I want to believe that Apple will finally make a screen that doesn't hurt me.

Beyond the phone, I tried to update my iPad Pro 12.9 last year and found that the new screen hurt my eyes. I returned it, ordered a 2020 version (and even kept my old 2018, so I didn't even discount my purchase with a trade-in), and have been good with it. More to the point, knowing that the technology showed no reported change (that I could find), I didn't even try buying the 2022 model. I am trying to be a fair customer.

Good luck with whatever you decide. 🍀

Thanks!
My wife jokes about my walk of shame back into the Apple store each time to return a phone (it's been 3 now in the last month), and that the staff there will know who I am when I walk in.

Of course that isn't true, and the Apple store staff have been fantastic and not once commented on any other returns. But I'm with you, feel so guilty and hate ever having to return anything that is not flat out defective. I feel so frustrated even having to deal with this when others can just buy a phone- any phone- and be fine with it.

 

[happy orchard]

Thanks!
My wife jokes about my walk of shame back into the Apple store each time to return a phone (it's been 3 now in the last month), and that the staff there will know who I am when I walk in.

Of course that isn't true, and the Apple store staff have been fantastic and not once commented on any other returns. But I'm with you, feel so guilty and hate ever having to return anything that is not flat out defective. I feel so frustrated even having to deal with this when others can just buy a phone- any phone- and be fine with it.

Oh yeah, we have a club for people who want to hate the people who seem to have it so easy with phones but don’t hate because we’re not really hateful kind of people. We want to make jackets, but we can’t figure out how to stitch on that message more succinctly.

 

[MICHAELSD]

To answer some previous inquiries I might have missed in this thread, I suppose our only option is to continue trying new iPhones until there’s one that works without engaging PWM sensitivity.

I feel much more comfortable with iPhone SE to the point I still want to sell my MBP and figure out another option: maybe a base MBA to hold me over until a better Apple silicon product comes along, if I can sell it in like-new condition at a fair price. But it was definitely the right decision for me to return iPhone 14 Pro Max.

All I’ve heard about the standard iPhone 14 is reassuring, as if it fixed a majority of the issues for a large portion of the users that have tried it. I’ll have to think about it, and Apple isn’t vocal enough to say whether they want the feedback on whether the 60Hz PWM quasi-DC dimming is better than the 240Hz/480Hz of the Pro.

 

[jm31828]

To answer some previous inquiries I might have missed in this thread, I suppose our only option is to continue trying new iPhones until there’s one that works without engaging PWM sensitivity.

I feel much more comfortable with iPhone SE to the point I still want to sell my MBP and figure out another option: maybe a base MBA to hold me over until a better Apple silicon product comes along, if I can sell it in like-new condition at a fair price. But it was definitely the right decision for me to return iPhone 14 Pro Max.

All I’ve heard about the standard iPhone 14 is reassuring, as if it fixed a majority of the issues for a large portion of the users that have tried it. I’ll have to think about it, and Apple isn’t vocal enough to say whether they want the feedback on whether the 60Hz PWM quasi-DC dimming is better than the 240Hz/480Hz of the Pro.

Wow, I just looked at Notebookcheck's PWM section on their iPhone 14 (regular, not Pro) review and am amazed at how flat measurement looks, especially at 50% brightness. However, their review says that it's a low frequency and may impact sensitive users.

As I look at this, I don't see much of any modulation it almost looks as flat as what they show for the iPhone SE, a device that of course has no PWM. Is there something else I'm missing, that there is still flicker that you wouldn't otherwise have on an LCD display with this particular phone?

And I see that Notebookcheck did a test for temporal dithering on the 14 Pro and found that it is not present (great news, as I know that bothers some people)- but has anyone found any news on whether there is any temporal dithering on the regular 14?

I really wanted to downsize to a smaller phone, part of the reason I sold my 13 Pro and went to the SE (the other reason being of course no PWM)... but I am almost tempted to give the regular 14 a try, because if it works with no eye strain or headaches, I could live with the less than ideal big size!
(as I noted in another post, I had very mild sensitivity on my 13 Pro but not too bad- but on the SE now I am feeling dry, burning eye sensations which I am rather dumbfounded by- maybe it's the temporal dithering? In some ways it's almost worse for me than the 13 Pro was)

 

[MICHAELSD]

Wow, I just looked at Notebookcheck's PWM section on their iPhone 14 (regular, not Pro) review and am amazed at how flat measurement looks, especially at 50% brightness. However, their review says that it's a low frequency and may impact sensitive users.

As I look at this, I don't see much of any modulation it almost looks as flat as what they show for the iPhone SE, a device that of course has no PWM. Is there something else I'm missing, that there is still flicker that you wouldn't otherwise have on an LCD display with this particular phone?

And I see that Notebookcheck did a test for temporal dithering on the 14 Pro and found that it is not present (great news, as I know that bothers some people)- but has anyone found any news on whether there is any temporal dithering on the regular 14?

I really wanted to downsize to a smaller phone, part of the reason I sold my 13 Pro and went to the SE (the other reason being of course no PWM)... but I am almost tempted to give the regular 14 a try, because if it works with no eye strain or headaches, I could live with the less than ideal big size!
(as I noted in another post, I had very mild sensitivity on my 13 Pro but not too bad- but on the SE now I am feeling dry, burning eye sensations which I am rather dumbfounded by- maybe it's the temporal dithering? In some ways it's almost worse for me than the 13 Pro was)

My suggestion is to try iPhone 14. iPhone 13 Mini was still constant headaches for me, and iPhone 13 Pro wasn’t any better.

I’m satisfied with iPhone SE and love the smaller size, yet I’m curious if Apple all but fixed this on iPhone 14. It doesn’t seem like a lot of users are talking about it, but those that have have said that they’ve been fine leaving auto-brightness on.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

I'm doing one more test by using my 13 mini all day today(I bought it as a collector's item when it came out and have barely used it, I don't know for sure if it bothers me), but I think I may have cracked the case on my own personal issues. I think it's ProMotion screens in general. I feel great with LCDs, I felt fine looking at the 14 plus yesterday, but if I use my 13 pro even limited to 60hz I feel sick. I spent all last night digging into this and from what I can find, the framerate still varies even when set to 60hz on ProMotion phones. I really think that's it. If I don't get a headache with the 13 mini today, I'm definitely gonna try a 14 plus or even a 14. I am getting older and can't focus as well on smaller objects so I do need something larger either way, plus better battery life. Hoping for the best 🤞

 

[john g.]

I'm doing one more test by using my 13 mini all day today(I bought it as a collector's item when it came out and have barely used it, I don't know for sure if it bothers me), but I think I may have cracked the case on my own personal issues. I think it's ProMotion screens in general. I feel great with LCDs, I felt fine looking at the 14 plus yesterday, but if I use my 13 pro even limited to 60hz I feel sick. I spent all last night digging into this and from what I can find, the framerate still varies even when set to 60hz on ProMotion phones. I really think that's it. If I don't get a headache with the 13 mini today, I'm definitely gonna try a 14 plus or even a 14. I am getting older and can't focus as well on smaller objects so I do need something larger either way, plus better battery life. Hoping for the best 🤞

Yeah, I wondered about the promotion on the pros for me. I feel like it intensified the potential for motion sickness for me. And when I switched to 60 Hz I imagined it was a little better, but I still wasn't convinced as it still felt different than an old-school 60 Hz fixed iPhone.

 

[jm31828]

My suggestion is to try iPhone 14. iPhone 13 Mini was still constant headaches for me, and iPhone 13 Pro wasn’t any better.

I’m satisfied with iPhone SE and love the smaller size, yet I’m curious if Apple all but fixed this on iPhone 14. It doesn’t seem like a lot of users are talking about it, but those that have have said that they’ve been fine leaving auto-brightness on.

That's great, sounds very promising!

I am really tempted to try the 14 given that we are now in the holiday return period. The SE I purchased from my carrier, and got a $150 discount due to some incentives that were on my account, so it really only cost just over $300. Returning it would be a big hassle, so I may just keep it, buy the 14, use them side by side for a month or so and see how it goes- and I can either return the 14 to Apple, or if I keep the 14, sell the SE and at least get my money back, likely would get a bit more than I paid after the incentives.

But one question on that- with eSIM, those of you going back and forth doing this testing- are you able to set up the eSIM using your physical SIM card details, and you can still use your physical SIM on another device- or does your carrier have to get involved each time you want to switch away from the 14 and its eSIM?

 

[MICHAELSD]

That's great, sounds very promising!

I am really tempted to try the 14 given that we are now in the holiday return period. The SE I purchased from my carrier, and got a $150 discount due to some incentives that were on my account, so it really only cost just over $300. Returning it would be a big hassle, so I may just keep it, buy the 14, use them side by side for a month or so and see how it goes- and I can either return the 14 to Apple, or if I keep the 14, sell the SE and at least get my money back, likely would get a bit more than I paid after the incentives.

But one question on that- with eSIM, those of you going back and forth doing this testing- are you able to set up the eSIM using your physical SIM card details, and you can still use your physical SIM on another device- or does your carrier have to get involved each time you want to switch away from the 14 and its eSIM?

So the eSIM situation disables the physical SIM card. It’s super easy to switch the eSIM between iPhones under Settings.

 

[jm31828]

So the eSIM situation disables the physical SIM card. It’s super easy to switch the eSIM between iPhones under Settings.

Ah, interesting- so you can do that without help from the carrier then? (manually entering the info, I assume)

I am so tempted to just buy an unlocked 14 from Apple and try it for a month alongside the new SE I just bought from my carrier. Nothing really to lose other than the hassle of one more return or one more sale of a phone.... although my wife thinks I am wasting far too much time on this stuff at this point. lol

I checked some of the iPhone PWM threads on Reddit and the consensus seems to be similar to here, where even some of the most sensitive people were getting along very well on the 14 non-Pro. There were a couple of outliers that said they still had trouble, as I think we have seen here- but it sure does give some hope!

I just wish there was a good way to test this out without having to commit to buying the phone and going through all of that nonsense. But, none of these really bother me in the Apple store given the bright lighting in there, it seems to negate the impact of PWM vs what you experience at home in lower lighting.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Ah, interesting- so you can do that without help from the carrier then? (manually entering the info, I assume)

I am so tempted to just buy an unlocked 14 from Apple and try it for a month alongside the new SE I just bought from my carrier. Nothing really to lose other than the hassle of one more return or one more sale of a phone.... although my wife thinks I am wasting far too much time on this stuff at this point. lol

I checked some of the iPhone PWM threads on Reddit and the consensus seems to be similar to here, where even some of the most sensitive people were getting along very well on the 14 non-Pro. There were a couple of outliers that said they still had trouble, as I think we have seen here- but it sure does give some hope!

I just wish there was a good way to test this out without having to commit to buying the phone and going through all of that nonsense. But, none of these really bother me in the Apple store given the bright lighting in there, it seems to negate the impact of PWM vs what you experience at home in lower lighting.

If you’re going this route it’s easier to buy the iPhone 14 activated since it only uses eSIM, then transfer over in Settings under Cellular.

 

[jm31828]

For those of you who have gotten along OK with a 13 Mini (I know quite a few say that one is the best of the 13 series for PWM), what brightness level do you find is best?

Notebookcheck states there is no PWM below 15%, I wonder if that is accurate?

 

[MICHAELSD]

For those of you who have gotten along OK with a 13 Mini (I know quite a few say that one is the best of the 13 series for PWM), what brightness level do you find is best?

Notebookcheck states there is no PWM below 15%, I wonder if that is accurate?

There’s definitely PWM since it causes me a lot of headaches, but it’s a 60Hz rate—which makes me skeptical about iPhone 14.