Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[Proteinaceous]

I feel much more comfortable with iPhone SE to the point I still want to sell my MBP and figure out another option: maybe a base MBA to hold me over until a better Apple silicon product comes along, if I can sell it in like-new condition at a fair price. But it was definitely the right decision for me to return iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Not to be a downer but the M2 MacBook Air flickers and some folks (myself included) have had issues with the screen:

Videos of MacBook Air M2 flickering

I just received a MacBook Air M2 few days ago and I noticed that the display flickers even more than old MacBook Pro, and especially with gray colors (worse...

ledstrain.org

There is a YouTube video linked in the thread above. I saw the same flickering when I tested mine. The screen gave me a headache (but it was more mild than the headaches I get from OLED iPhones). I was quite surprised because I had NEVER had an issue with a non-OLED before (and I’ve been using computers extensively since the CRT days). M1 MacBook Air screen is different than the M2, but I’ve seen reports of the M1 causing issues too:

Did the M2 MBA solve the eyestrain/headache issue for you?

I tried in the store today and it doesn't look like it will address the issue for me. For reference, this is the thread discussing the issue with the M1 MBA. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/anybody-getting-eye-strain-on-m1-macbook-air.2269498/

forums.macrumors.com

Coincidentally, the external monitor that I use for work for many hours every day seems to flicker at the same rate as the M2 Air, but I have no issues with the external monitor. So, I have no idea what I can trust anymore.

I’ve never had anything with a mini-LED and I am strongly considering upgrading my 2018 12.9 iPad to the latest M2 12.9. I will be very disappointed if the mini-LED gives me problems (like others have reported in this thread). I have played with the M1 12.9 in the stores and didn’t have any noticeable concerns (whereas I can usually tell within a few minutes of playing with an OLED iPhone).

As you know with these things, your experience may be different and you may have no issues at all. 🤞 Just wanted to share my experience and potential caution. ☹️

 

[jm31828]

There’s definitely PWM since it causes me a lot of headaches, but it’s a 60Hz rate—which makes me skeptical about iPhone 14.

Ah, interesting. So in theory, the <15% brightness on the 13 Mini should be the same as what Notebookcheck measured at any brightness level on the regular 14... yeah if it bothered you on the 13 even below 15% brightness, that is concerning for how it will be on the 14.

Are you thinking you will go ahead and give it a try, though, with the 14?

 

[esaelias187]

I can speak to that. Outside of the PWM realm- I bought an SE2022 a month ago and it was flawless for my eyes, no issues at all (as would be expected). I stupidly returned it because I wanted to try a 13 Mini.... I quickly regretted that not just because of the OLED screen, but realized I actually like the SE better- so I bought another SE that I've been using for a week. On that phone, it makes my eyes feel dry and irritated, sort of a dry/burning sensation. Not severe, but happens every time I use the phone- and it started the moment I started setting it up out of the box.

Clearly there has to be something different about the display on this one vs. the one I had a few weeks ago, even though they are both the same model.

I am sure there is that sort of difference between two phones of the same model in the OLED universe as well, which makes all of this even more difficult.

Hows ur se now

Ithink maybe because you used ur mini then went to se u had the lingering affects still?

The lcd used in iphone se is the same as iphone 8 so should be easy on the eyes

Saying that iv been using 11 no issues and my iphone 8 ….. got the se no headaches at all but dry eyes

Ikmow it has no flicker so guess dry eyes is better than a headache

Also bought the 14 non pro to see how i feel will report back

 

[esaelias187]

After a week and a half now on my new SE, I am dumbfounded that I am having some minor issues.
The moment I turned it on to start setting it up, I started feeling a bit of a dry, "sizzling" feeling in my eyes, so to speak. No strain, no headaches- just that annoying sensation and dry eyes within minutes of using it. The dry eye feeling persists for a while after looking away.

I can go a few hours just fine using my computer for work or even using my personal laptop, but as soon as I look at the SE this feeling returns. Some days it's very light and others it's much more noticeable.

The weird thing is I had an SE about a month ago that I tried for two weeks as well, and had zero trouble with it. I returned it thinking I wanted a different phone, which I tried and ended up returning for another SE.

This makes no sense to me how I could have zero trouble AT ALL with the SE I tried a month or so ago and now with this one, this happens every time I use it.

I am a few days away from the end of the return window on this phone- I love it in every way, but am wondering if I need to get a different SE just in case there is something problematic with the display on this particular unit. (And SE's are a 2-3 week wait on apple.com, and are out of stock in every color and storage capacity at all Apple stores in my area)

Very odd...

On another note- I think with OLED displays I have some very light PWM sensitivity, as I definitely noticed it when I tried using an XS when they were released, and still get those symptoms when I try using my wife's XS Max.

However I had a 12 Mini for a year and didn't have much trouble, and have had a 13 Pro for a year without much trouble. I had brightness up to 85% and reduce white point up to 95% to mitigate the flicker as much as possible- and mostly was fine, though I think the brightness along with the added crispness/sharpness on the display seems to occasionally bother me.

But with that said, what I like about the SE is the small size and the fact that it has LCD, just to rule PWM out as a potential eye irritant (even if a mild irritant).

Since my current SE is still having some weird effects, I now wonder if I should just try a 13 Mini- still a very small phone, with a few of the things I would be missing on the SE (Slightly better camera, second camera lens) but yet with a slightly bigger display.

I have seen some discussion on this thread about the 13 mini- and it seems the consensus is that the 13 Mini is the easiest on the eyes out of the 13 series, and possibly out of all of the OLED phones previous to the 14 series, correct?

I think this is placebo ite using the old lcds from iphone 7:8 etc

 

[esaelias187]

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense.
I am not sure what's going on, but it is weird that the week and a half I used the SE 2022 that I had a few weeks ago were flawless.
To be fair, though- yesterday after having not used my phone for over 12 hours, I picked up my 13 Pro instead and used it for about 15 minutes, and had the same dry eye symptoms with it- so I would have to suspect it's just a little phase my eyes are going through, potentially not associated with the new SE. (it was just quite a coincidence that it started at literally the moment I turned it on and started setting it up last week)

My return window closes on this phone this coming Sunday... I feel bad for the phone swapping, but for peace of mind I am wondering if I might want to pick up a different one at one of my local Apple stores and return this one- given what you said about every screen being different, and knowing I had zero issues with the first one.

I'll see how the rest of this week goes.

Yes i think its a phase how is the se now

 

[jm31828]

Hows ur se now

Ithink maybe because you used ur mini then went to se u had the lingering affects still?

The lcd used in iphone se is the same as iphone 8 so should be easy on the eyes

Saying that iv been using 11 no issues and my iphone 8 ….. got the se no headaches at all but dry eyes

Ikmow it has no flicker so guess dry eyes is better than a headache

Also bought the 14 non pro to see how i feel will report back

I've had the new SE now for about two weeks, and same. Some days it's barely noticeable and others it is sort of a sizzling feeling on my eyes immediately when looking at the display. Very weird! It's not severe, I don't want to sound dramatic- but definitely not right, not a comfortable feeling. It is dry, sometimes my eyes get just a bit watery. I keep brightness rather low, auto brightness is on and the brightest it gets indoors is right at the top of the sun icon on the brightness slider.

I didn't have this feeling on the 13 Pro that I used for the last year. I will say I still don't get headaches using the SE, so that's good- but all in all it's a tossup which was more uncomfortable for my eyes- I dare to say that the 13 Pro was a bit easier on my eyes than the SE has been so far. \

It is so weird- the SE definitely does not have PWM flicker (proven by the testing at Notebookcheck.net), but I have read a little bit about temporal dithering where they have pixels around the screen flickering different colors to simulate a broader color spectrum than one of those displays might naturally have- and some people are sensitive to that.
Notebookcheck did find that the 14 Pro has NO temporal dithering, and they haven't reviewed that aspect on the non pro 14- but I would have to suspect it's the same, as I don't think that's just a function of the screen itself, but the phone's display engine. (others more knowledgeable on that part can chime in, I may be off base)

Please share how the 14 non pro is for you. I am debating buying one from Apple now that we have the long holiday return period, to test it out alongside my SE- but would love to hear some other experiences before I pull that trigger.
I really wanted a smaller phone, but if the 14 non pro is going to be really easy on the eyes, I'll take that over anything else!

 

[jm31828]

I think this is placebo ite using the old lcds from iphone 7:8 etc

The display is apparently a bit more advanced than what was in the 7 anyway, and possible the 8- sounds like this one has a broader color spectrum, and to achieve that the use temporal dithering (mentioned in my post above) to make it appear to be even more colorful than it otherwise might be able to be. I have seen reports from people who are sensitive to that and it hurts their eyes similar to what PWM can do.

I am only speculating on that being my issue with the SE- I have no idea otherwise. I will continue to use it and see how it goes, as I can't really return it now anyway. Some days it's extremely mild almost not noticeable, and other days much more so.

You said you are feeling dry eyes on an SE as well?

 

[esaelias187]

The display is apparently a bit more advanced than what was in the 7 anyway, and possible the 8- sounds like this one has a broader color spectrum, and to achieve that the use temporal dithering (mentioned in my post above) to make it appear to be even more colorful than it otherwise might be able to be. I have seen reports from people who are sensitive to that and it hurts their eyes similar to what PWM can do.

I am only speculating on that being my issue with the SE- I have no idea otherwise. I will continue to use it and see how it goes, as I can't really return it now anyway. Some days it's extremely mild almost not noticeable, and other days much more so.

You said you are feeling dry eyes on an SE as well?

Yes i got it today no headaches

But eyes feeling dry i usually had this with the iphone 11 but went better

I mean i got this free so worst case ill go back to my iphone 11

Ordered iphone 14 non pro lets seehow that does

But my only choice is really the se so trial and error starts now

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Well, after a few hours on my 13 mini today I did get a slight headache. However I think that may have been from using the phone while riding around with my mom, using any phone in a car will trigger a headache.

It wasn’t the nauseous kind of headache I get from ProMotion screens though, and I think it may have also been from trying to focus on something so small. I love my tiny phones but I think my aging eyes just need something bigger nowadays Once payday hits I’m gonna snag a 14+ and hope for the best.

 

[jm31828]

Yes i got it today no headaches

But eyes feeling dry i usually had this with the iphone 11 but went better

I mean i got this free so worst case ill go back to my iphone 11

Ordered iphone 14 non pro lets seehow that does

But my only choice is really the se so trial and error starts now

Interesting- so you felt the dry eyes frequently when using your 11?

See how the SE goes for you... it may get better after a few days. I am still hopeful it will for me, as I do like this phone and would be happy to just keep using it. But, the 14 non-Pro sounds really intriguing with what I have read about it being easier on the eyes.

 

[jm31828]

Well, after a few hours on my 13 mini today I did get a slight headache. However I think that may have been from using the phone while riding around with my mom, using any phone in a car will trigger a headache.

It wasn’t the nauseous kind of headache I get from ProMotion screens though, and I think it may have also been from trying to focus on something so small. I love my tiny phones but I think my aging eyes just need something bigger nowadays Once payday hits I’m gonna snag a 14+ and hope for the best.

Are you past the point of no return on your 13 Mini, or still able to return it if necessary?

I get so paranoid about hitting the end of that return window, being stuck with an expensive device I won't be able to use. lol

Regarding the tiny display- do you find any improvement increasing the text size on the Mini? Curious how that works for people as I know by default the mini does have smaller text size than other models.

 

[esaelias187]

Interesting- so you felt the dry eyes frequently when using your 11?

See how the SE goes for you... it may get better after a few days. I am still hopeful it will for me, as I do like this phone and would be happy to just keep using it. But, the 14 non-Pro sounds really intriguing with what I have read about it being easier on the eyes.

First few dahs ipone 11 was abit funny abit dry then wasperfect

Too bad i smashed the screen so now testing the se and dry eyes so lets see

 

[esaelias187]

The display is apparently a bit more advanced than what was in the 7 anyway, and possible the 8- sounds like this one has a broader color spectrum, and to achieve that the use temporal dithering (mentioned in my post above) to make it appear to be even more colorful than it otherwise might be able to be. I have seen reports from people who are sensitive to that and it hurts their eyes similar to what PWM can do.

I am only speculating on that being my issue with the SE- I have no idea otherwise. I will continue to use it and see how it goes, as I can't really return it now anyway. Some days it's extremely mild almost not noticeable, and other days much more so.

You said you are feeling dry eyes on an SE as well?

Anything is betterthan oled flicker…. Im sure you will be fine with se in the end

 

[esaelias187]

Anything is betterthan oled flicker…. Im sure you will be fine with se in the end

I do prefer the bigger screen of the iphone 11

The se is fast but the 11 was quite fast too

My plan of action is test iphone 14 non pro

If doesntwork out give it back

Test the se if not work out pack it away

Iphone 11 get the screen fixed and go back to it

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Are you past the point of no return on your 13 Mini, or still able to return it if necessary?

I get so paranoid about hitting the end of that return window, being stuck with an expensive device I won't be able to use. lol

Regarding the tiny display- do you find any improvement increasing the text size on the Mini? Curious how that works for people as I know by default the mini does have smaller text size than other models.

Oh yeah wayyy past the return period, I've had it for almost a year now :/ It'll be traded in along with my 13 pro so I can get the 14+ for cheap. I'll get like $930 for both so I should just have to pay some tax which will be nice, and I'll still have my SE and 8+ to fall back on if the 14+ fries my eyes too. I could get more selling them privately but honestly selling anything nowadays is such a hassle that I'd rather take the loss.

Increasing text size does help a bit, but my eyes are just weird. I've had horrid vision since I was 7 or 8, my prescription used to be so bad it was practically off the charts. I have astigmatism too, cause being legally blind apparently wasn't enough of a kick in the face lol. I got laser surgery 3 years ago but my eyes are still super finicky since I'm in my 40s now. Focusing on a smaller screen, even with larger text, still annoys them.

 

[jm31828]

First few dahs ipone 11 was abit funny abit dry then wasperfect

Too bad i smashed the screen so now testing the se and dry eyes so lets see

Maybe you will adjust, then, to the SE in a few days.

 

[jm31828]

I do prefer the bigger screen of the iphone 11

The se is fast but the 11 was quite fast too

My plan of action is test iphone 14 non pro

If doesntwork out give it back

Test the se if not work out pack it away

Iphone 11 get the screen fixed and go back to it

Good plan!

When will you be getting your 14?

 

[jm31828]

Oh yeah wayyy past the return period, I've had it for almost a year now :/ It'll be traded in along with my 13 pro so I can get the 14+ for cheap. I'll get like $930 for both so I should just have to pay some tax which will be nice, and I'll still have my SE and 8+ to fall back on if the 14+ fries my eyes too. I could get more selling them privately but honestly selling anything nowadays is such a hassle that I'd rather take the loss.

Increasing text size does help a bit, but my eyes are just weird. I've had horrid vision since I was 7 or 8, my prescription used to be so bad it was practically off the charts. I have astigmatism too, cause being legally blind apparently wasn't enough of a kick in the face lol. I got laser surgery 3 years ago but my eyes are still super finicky since I'm in my 40s now. Focusing on a smaller screen, even with larger text, still annoys them.

Sorry to hear that!
Hopefully you find an option that works for you.?

I’m 45 now, and am quickly realizing what you said about focusing on small text. No more laughing at my dad for the big text on his iPhone. Lol

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

Sorry to hear that!
Hopefully you find an option that works for you.?

I’m 45 now, and am quickly realizing what you said about focusing on small text. No more laughing at my dad for the big text on his iPhone. Lol

At my last appointment my eye doc asked if I'd picked up some reading glasses yet since I'm "at that age" now. I almost went off on the little whippersnapper but he was right 😅

I'm really looking forward to trying the 14 plus, just a few more days till I can afford it lol.

 

[esaelias187]

Good plan!

When will you be getting your 14?

Tommorow

 

[esaelias187]

Maybe you will adjust, then, to the SE in a few days.

Wokeup today with a slight pain is it the se who knows

 

[esaelias187]

I've had the new SE now for about two weeks, and same. Some days it's barely noticeable and others it is sort of a sizzling feeling on my eyes immediately when looking at the display. Very weird! It's not severe, I don't want to sound dramatic- but definitely not right, not a comfortable feeling. It is dry, sometimes my eyes get just a bit watery. I keep brightness rather low, auto brightness is on and the brightest it gets indoors is right at the top of the sun icon on the brightness slider.

I didn't have this feeling on the 13 Pro that I used for the last year. I will say I still don't get headaches using the SE, so that's good- but all in all it's a tossup which was more uncomfortable for my eyes- I dare to say that the 13 Pro was a bit easier on my eyes than the SE has been so far. \

It is so weird- the SE definitely does not have PWM flicker (proven by the testing at Notebookcheck.net), but I have read a little bit about temporal dithering where they have pixels around the screen flickering different colors to simulate a broader color spectrum than one of those displays might naturally have- and some people are sensitive to that.
Notebookcheck did find that the 14 Pro has NO temporal dithering, and they haven't reviewed that aspect on the non pro 14- but I would have to suspect it's the same, as I don't think that's just a function of the screen itself, but the phone's display engine. (others more knowledgeable on that part can chime in, I may be off base)

Please share how the 14 non pro is for you. I am debating buying one from Apple now that we have the long holiday return period, to test it out alongside my SE- but would love to hear some other experiences before I pull that trigger.
I really wanted a smaller phone, but if the 14 non pro is going to be really easy on the eyes, I'll take that over anything else!

Its odd because the iphone 11 isthe same lcd

I checked the low flicker its very very low and im assuming the tenporal dithering will be the same too

Could be placebo who knows

 

[DJTaurus]

Anyone getting dizziness from Apple Watch 7 ? Never had issues until 5.

 

[esaelias187]

Sorry to hear that!
Hopefully you find an option that works for you.?

I’m 45 now, and am quickly realizing what you said about focusing on small text. No more laughing at my dad for the big text on his iPhone. Lol

Apprently

The iphone 14 non pro has a new screen supplier boe

And the pwm rate os 1040

Which seems good

Notebookcheck says 60hz but they got that confused with refresh rate im sure

 

[esaelias187]

Apprently

The iphone 14 non pro has a new screen supplier boe

And the pwm rate os 1040

Which seems good

Notebookcheck says 60hz but they got that confused with refresh rate im sure

But then again its a screen lottery if you get boe

Does one know how to check?

If you get a boe screen you might have less eye strain