Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

So far I think I find the screens of the vanilla 14 and 14+ easier to deal with than the pro screens. The pro screens seem like they have more exaggerated contrast and the intense brightness of white text on a dark background. I can’t say that’s the case in all scenarios but the pro screens seem more difficult to manage

I don’t see blooming on my 14 Pro Max display. I read on it late at night. I think I got lucky getting about as tolerable a display someone with our condition can find.

That’s not to say I can truly relax on this phone. I have a time limit I can be on it not to exceed an hour.

I’m screwed on all the displays now. With LCD the temporal dithering is getting to me. I went ahead and took the iPad 10 off my Christmas wish list because I decided I don’t want my holiday ruined trying to test yet another expensive device from Apple.

In fact, I’m trying to reconfigure my life so I’m on devices a lot less, entirely.

The plan is I’m going to gradually phase out of technology altogether and go back to life the old fashioned way. It’s going to cut me off from a lot of friends and family, just like leaving Facebook did, but I’ll make new friends who are easier to see in person and I will continue to catch up with family at weddings, christenings and funerals like my grandparents did. 😆

I already have some good DSLRs. I’ll try getting better acquainted with them. I will order prints and make real tangible photo albums again. I think my mom will be excited about that. It will be something to take over to her.

The problem of course is I can’t tell organizations I’m associated with not to email me. Phone calls are inconvenient as well.

Even my poor dad in his 80’s had to deal with everything being on email and video calls. He was 84 with undiagnosed brain cancer and had to buy a new computer and try and figure out how to do all the zoom meetings and texts and emails to coordinate my mom’s medical care. And he did it!

But I suppose if I can pare down my tech usage to the absolute essentials it can be made bearable.

I am going to try and learn how blind people use technology. I think there are blind people who participate here. I mainly want to convert how I get news into audio format. That should be pretty straightforward, I would think.

 

[jm31828]

No PWM? How does it control the screen brightness without it?

Same way it does on all other LCD devices, it just dims the actual screen (DC dimming)- there is no flicker on this device, just as is the case on their LCD phones (iphone 11, SE, etc).

 

[jm31828]

There was speculation on another thread out there where people were wondering if Apple changed up the supplier for displays on the 13 Mini- that the displays in the ones you buy now may be from a different supplier with totally different PWM measurements from what there was at launch last year, and in the testing done by Notebookcheck.
I wonder if there could be any validity to that?

 

[jm31828]

It's interesting that Notebookcheck mentions the regular 14 has a PWM frequency of 60Hz, but DXOMark measures it at 480Hz- scroll down on this page:

Apple iPhone 14 Display test

We put the Apple iPhone 14 through our rigorous DXOMARK Display test suite to measure its performance across six criteria. In this test results, we will break down how it fared in a variety of tests and several common use cases. Overview Key display specifications: 6.1 inches OLED, (~85.0%...

www.dxomark.com

I am a dummy with this stuff, though, as I look at those measurements, what do we make of it- I assume this shows different brightness levels, accounting for the differences in the frequency/modulation?

 

[dimitricook]

i have been testing the 14pro max for the last 3 days and get immense headache after using it for a few minutes. I am using the phone with a matt screen protector since i read that it helps some people.

The symptoms are different than with the 12 or 13 series, where now i get very dizzy, nausia and headache. The older series gave me more eyestrain where this doesn´t.

I still have the 14 regular to test, fingers crossed!

 

[usmaak]

I don’t see blooming on my 14 Pro Max display. I read on it late at night. I think I got lucky getting about as tolerable a display someone with our condition can find.

That’s not to say I can truly relax on this phone. I have a time limit I can be on it not to exceed an hour.

I’m screwed on all the displays now. With LCD the temporal dithering is getting to me. I went ahead and took the iPad 10 off my Christmas wish list because I decided I don’t want my holiday ruined trying to test yet another expensive device from Apple.

In fact, I’m trying to reconfigure my life so I’m on devices a lot less, entirely.

The plan is I’m going to gradually phase out of technology altogether and go back to life the old fashioned way. It’s going to cut me off from a lot of friends and family, just like leaving Facebook did, but I’ll make new friends who are easier to see in person and I will continue to catch up with family at weddings, christenings and funerals like my grandparents did. 😆

I already have some good DSLRs. I’ll try getting better acquainted with them. I will order prints and make real tangible photo albums again. I think my mom will be excited about that. It will be something to take over to her.

The problem of course is I can’t tell organizations I’m associated with not to email me. Phone calls are inconvenient as well.

Even my poor dad in his 80’s had to deal with everything being on email and video calls. He was 84 with undiagnosed brain cancer and had to buy a new computer and try and figure out how to do all the zoom meetings and texts and emails to coordinate my mom’s medical care. And he did it!

But I suppose if I can pare down my tech usage to the absolute essentials it can be made bearable.

I am going to try and learn how blind people use technology. I think there are blind people who participate here. I mainly want to convert how I get news into audio format. That should be pretty straightforward, I would think.

Seeing as you're considering going down the path of no technology at all, couldn't you make the move to an Android device that uses a screen you can tolerate? Or does such a thing not exist. It's not Apple but you've already indicated commitment to leaving Apple devices behind, so what's the harm in trying Android. I was on Android for many years and though it is not without flaws, it is a much smoother product than it used to be. And you wouldn't be limited to a set number of devices you could try that are just manufactured by one company.

Have you considered just picking up a cheap tablet, like a Kindle Fire tablet? Those are LCD, though I'm not sure of any of the other specs that might give you a tough time. I have a 10" Fire tablet and while it's not going to replace my iPad, it's been good for reading and light browsing.

 

[Ac1d 8urn]

i have been testing the 14pro max for the last 3 days and get immense headache after using it for a few minutes. I am using the phone with a matt screen protector since i read that it helps some people.

The symptoms are different than with the 12 or 13 series, where now i get very dizzy, nausia and headache. The older series gave me more eyestrain where this doesn´t.

I still have the 14 regular to test, fingers crossed!

You're probably blessed enough to have both OLED sensitivity and motion sickness from variable refresh rates. I can't use any ProMotion phones without feeling like 🤢

I've had my 14+ for almost a week now, no problems yet so hopefully the 14 works out for you!

 

[john g.]

Do you have a screen protector on your 14+? When I was trying the 14PM, I had slight but persistent headaches. I didn't feel any queasiness until I put on a glass screen protector. Took the screen protector off a few days later and the queasiness went away. (Sadly, the headaches stayed, so the phone went back.)

Interesting. I guess that’s worth a try! Thanks.

 

[john g.]

Interesting. I guess that’s worth a try! Thanks.

Took the screen protector off. I like it! Who knows if it’s gonna make any difference with queasiness but it’s nice not having so much reflection. I’m just a paranoid phone owner and I’ve always had screen protectors on my phones.

But I’ve never had one on any watch that I wear nor my iPad. Screen protectors on LCD screens don’t seem to be an issue but perhaps they are with OLED for some folks?
Anyway, thanks for the tip and I will check it out.

 

[now i see it]

My experience with feeling a bit uneasy while using an iPhone (8 Plus) is definitely related to the 60hz screen refresh during scrolling.
Once I start scrolling anything- I can see the stutter, and it gives me low level motion sickness.

While 120Hz Promotion screen refresh on newer iPhones was intended to help minimize the stuttering while scrolling, it likely still isn’t fast enough- and some people still feel sick using the iphone.

 

[john g.]

My experience with feeling a bit uneasy while using an iPhone (8 Plus) is definitely related to the 60hz screen refresh during scrolling.
Once I start scrolling anything- I can see the stutter, and it gives me low level motion sickness.

While 120Hz Promotion screen refresh on newer iPhones was intended to help minimize the stuttering while scrolling, it likely still isn’t fast enough- and some people still feel sick using the iphone.

I can totally see that. I don’t think I have a problem with 120 and I agree that it looks and feels smoother than 60. But where I think I might have a problem is the variable refresh rate. I think it gets me going motion sickness wise. Jury is still out there though. just a hypothesis

 

[MICHAELSD]

I had a relatively revelatory Costco experience:

I should definitely be finding an alternative to letting the back of my eye constantly feel like it’s being punched while using my MacBook Pro.

Same with iPhone 14, which is causing some of my worst PWM symptoms.

So that leaves me with the option of an iMac, which may be better for me regardless as it’s more ergonomic, but I’ll probably wait for the next generation as it’s still M1.

Another option is an iPad Mini, which was my favorite of the current iPad lineup I played with, even if the bezels feel slightly large relative to the size.

Then LG’s OLED televisions cause zero eye strain or sensitivity whatsoever, and truth be told they’re absolutely gorgeous, sharp and look better than even an iPhone OLED. I should probably just deal with LCD’s on my Apple products and consider an OLED TV instead to be absolutely mesmerized by the best display possible.

I did look at iPhone 14 Plus and iPhone 14 Pro while I was there. iPhone 14 Pro looked better, probably since it’s brighter under store lighting which would be impressive if the 2000nits is sustained, and neither caused immediate sensitivity which is deceiving since it’s short term at max brightness.

But what’s the point of doing this song and dance when there’s a 99% chance both will cause issues as long as they use PWM? Realistically I need to write off Apple’s OLED/Mini-LED displays and search for alternatives.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I had a relatively revelatory Costco experience:

I should definitely be finding an alternative to letting the back of my eye constantly feel like it’s being punched while using my MacBook Pro.

Same with iPhone 14, which is causing some of my worst PWM symptoms.

So that leaves me with the option of an iMac, which may be better for me regardless as it’s more ergonomic, but I’ll probably wait for the next generation as it’s still M1.

Another option is an iPad Mini, which was my favorite of the current iPad lineup I played with, even if the bezels feel slightly large relative to the size.

Then LG’s OLED televisions cause zero eye strain or sensitivity whatsoever, and truth be told they’re absolutely gorgeous, sharp and look better than even an iPhone OLED. I should probably just deal with LCD’s on my Apple products and consider an OLED TV instead to be absolutely mesmerized by the best display possible.

I did look at iPhone 14 Plus and iPhone 14 Pro while I was there. iPhone 14 Pro looked better, probably since it’s brighter under store lighting which would be impressive if the 2000nits is sustained, and neither caused immediate sensitivity which is deceiving since it’s short term at max brightness.

But what’s the point of doing this song and dance when there’s a 99% chance both will cause issues as long as they use PWM? Realistically I need to write off Apple’s OLED/Mini-LED displays and search for alternatives.

iMacs are great and the M1 is plenty powerful but I can understand waiting when considering the price tag - might as well invest in the best when it comes.

The iPad mini 6 is a fantastic little tablet that you can one hand. How are you with the jelly scroll?

 

[jm31828]

iMacs are great and the M1 is plenty powerful but I can understand waiting when considering the price tag - might as well invest in the best when it comes.

The iPad mini 6 is a fantastic little tablet that you can one hand. How are you with the jelly scroll?

And sadly according to Notebookcheck, the iPad mini 6 has PWM- though it admittedly is a a really high frequency so hopefully it doesn't bother too many people.

 

[jm31828]

I had a relatively revelatory Costco experience:

I should definitely be finding an alternative to letting the back of my eye constantly feel like it’s being punched while using my MacBook Pro.

Same with iPhone 14, which is causing some of my worst PWM symptoms.

So that leaves me with the option of an iMac, which may be better for me regardless as it’s more ergonomic, but I’ll probably wait for the next generation as it’s still M1.

Another option is an iPad Mini, which was my favorite of the current iPad lineup I played with, even if the bezels feel slightly large relative to the size.

Then LG’s OLED televisions cause zero eye strain or sensitivity whatsoever, and truth be told they’re absolutely gorgeous, sharp and look better than even an iPhone OLED. I should probably just deal with LCD’s on my Apple products and consider an OLED TV instead to be absolutely mesmerized by the best display possible.

I did look at iPhone 14 Plus and iPhone 14 Pro while I was there. iPhone 14 Pro looked better, probably since it’s brighter under store lighting which would be impressive if the 2000nits is sustained, and neither caused immediate sensitivity which is deceiving since it’s short term at max brightness.

But what’s the point of doing this song and dance when there’s a 99% chance both will cause issues as long as they use PWM? Realistically I need to write off Apple’s OLED/Mini-LED displays and search for alternatives.

Did you say you've had similar problems with all other OLED iPhones you've tried?

 

[Chrispy]

Then LG’s OLED televisions cause zero eye strain or sensitivity whatsoever, and truth be told they’re absolutely gorgeous, sharp and look better than even an iPhone OLED. I should probably just deal with LCD’s on my Apple products and consider an OLED TV instead to be absolutely mesmerized by the best display possible.

I laughed when I read this because I just went through the same experience at Best Buy this week. It's been years since I really ventured back to look at TVs, so I decided to check out the new OLEDs. Whoa! I've never seen a screen so beautiful. Strangely, I find the OLED screen on my Nintendo Switch to be one of the best looking I've used and it's low resolution by today's standards. And it has horrible PWM, yet I'm not bothered by it at all. There's just something about OLED iPhones and I've given up trying to figure out what it is. My SE came yesterday and it's still in the box waiting to be setup. I know it will work for me so I don't feel any anxiety, but I also have this feeling it may be my last iPhone due to the unsolved iPhone OLED issue. But wow, those OLED TVs really are something! They aren't kidding in videos when they say you have to see it for yourself.

 

[MICHAELSD]

iMacs are great and the M1 is plenty powerful but I can understand waiting when considering the price tag - might as well invest in the best when it comes.

The iPad mini 6 is a fantastic little tablet that you can one hand. How are you with the jelly scroll?

I’d consider purchasing an iMac at a blowout Black Friday sale since it feels previous-generation at this point, and we’ll likely see an iMac Pro with M3 Pro chips next year.

I was surprised when I looked into the latest iPad Mini, since I wasn’t expecting it to have half the features that it does. I was even going to wait to check the chip Apple put in it to gauge it based on the user experience since I was expecting to see an A13 or A14, but A15 is still current-generation.

The ‘jelly scroll’ probably wouldn’t bother me if it wasn’t already pointed out. It was noticeable in my time at the store, but I could probably deal with it.

And sadly according to Notebookcheck, the iPad mini 6 has PWM- though it admittedly is a a really high frequency so hopefully it doesn't bother too many people.

Only at a brightness level of under 10%, so keeping the brightness above this level will lead to a flicker-free experience. It’s quite easy to train the auto-brightness as well.

Did you say you've had similar problems with all other OLED iPhones you've tried?

Yes, so it’s not better or worse. To be fair I also woke up with a nasty headache after using my MacBook Pro for work the night before. I’m typing on iPhone 14 now and it’s still not at the level where I don’t have to think about it. Possibly not as bad as my initial experience which had me ready to box it up and send it back to Apple. The low 60Hz PWM rate seems to be real, rather than being behind a DC dimming approach.

I’m optimistic about the prospect of iPhone 14 Plus or iPhone 14 Pro once I do sell that MacBook Pro, but I’ll wait for the modulation data before making any more iPhone purchases. I do still miss iPhone 13 Mini and the 510Hz PWM looks good in theory, but I’ve learned well enough that it’s not my ideal option.

This is an interesting phenomenon, but I seem to get reduced headaches at night from these iPhones. A neurologist recommended magnesium and melatonin to prevent headaches, so the natural production of melatonin at night may help.

I laughed when I read this because I just went through the same experience at Best Buy this week. It's been years since I really ventured back to look at TVs, so I decided to check out the new OLEDs. Whoa! I've never seen a screen so beautiful. Strangely, I find the OLED screen on my Nintendo Switch to be one of the best looking I've used and it's low resolution by today's standards. And it has horrible PWM, yet I'm not bothered by it at all. There's just something about OLED iPhones and I've given up trying to figure out what it is. My SE came yesterday and it's still in the box waiting to be setup. I know it will work for me so I don't feel any anxiety, but I also have this feeling it may be my last iPhone due to the unsolved iPhone OLED issue. But wow, those OLED TVs really are something! They aren't kidding in videos when they say you have to see it for yourself.

It is odd that Apple’s PWM-flickering displays cause immediate responses, yet there are likely to be OLED devices we could use without issues.

Then of course LG’s OLED television with no PWM and the best image quality in the industry. I’m sure I would have already bought one years ago if I didn’t have a Pioneer KURO that I feel lucky to still be holding onto.

Purchasing a LG OLED TV could help scratch the itch for some here.

 

[DJTaurus]

So to summarise your best experience till now is 14 pro max, 14 or 13 mini ?

Off topic but the OLED king is Sony QD-OLED A95K and was also Sony A90J …. next year we are gonna see cheaper and more QD-OLED options. I owned LG CX 2 years ago and i got instantly headaches

 

[happy orchard]

Salut my sensitive superheroes

This is a good page for me tonight because there's talk of iPads minis right now, and I've just had an experience.

So my partner tells me this afternoon--in a very convoluted way--that he wants to try a Mini for work. I about leapt--okay I did actually leap--out of my seat, grabbed my laptop, and said 'talk to me, what do you want?'

-- Cut to 8 hours later now --

I think this Mini 6 is freaking making me nauseated!

I was helping him set it up a couple hours ago and noticed my head was bothering me and I was feeling just not great. Thought maybe it was the stress of buying (like I'd talked him into it) and setting it up (because he gets stressed when he doesn't get things quickly.) So I brushed off the negative experience.

Then I was just playing on it now for about 10 minutes and I felt waves of nausea! And, as the french say, j'ai mal à la tête, which I love because it's literally says i have bad to the head--and that's how I feel.

Get on notebook check and yep it has PWM. Darn it. But high, so maybe?

So I grab my own iPad Mini 5. No nausea. Look it on up notebook check and it seems to also have PWM--and it's lower?!

What is going on, my friends?

I'm absolutely going to have collect more data in this experiment. I just wanted to ask: Anybody else have trouble with the iPad Mini 6?


****And yes, the mini is for my partner, and he doesn't have any of our PWM issues, so this fun thing will probably be grand for him.

 

[happy orchard]

The iPad mini 6 is a fantastic little tablet that you can one hand. How are you with the jelly scroll?

Totally forgot about the jelly scroll until I was actually scrolling and went whoa what the heck?! My brain felt like the world was flinching. Did not like that. But yes I did turn it landscape, and things were better, so it's nice to have a simple solution.

How you doing with it?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Salut my sensitive superheroes

This is a good page for me tonight because there's talk of iPads minis right now, and I've just had an experience.

So my partner tells me this afternoon--in a very convoluted way--that he wants to try a Mini for work. I about leapt--okay I did actually leap--out of my seat, grabbed my laptop, and said 'talk to me, what do you want?'

-- Cut to 8 hours later now --

I think this Mini 6 is freaking making me nauseated!

I was helping him set it up a couple hours ago and noticed my head was bothering me and I was feeling just not great. Thought maybe it was the stress of buying (like I'd talked him into it) and setting it up (because he gets stressed when he doesn't get things quickly.) So I brushed off the negative experience.

Then I was just playing on it now for about 10 minutes and I felt waves of nausea! And, as the french say, j'ai mal à la tête, which I love because it's literally says i have bad to the head--and that's how I feel.

Get on notebook check and yep it has PWM. Darn it. But high, so maybe?

So I grab my own iPad Mini 5. No nausea. Look it on up notebook check and it seems to also have PWM--and it's lower?!

What is going on, my friends?

I'm absolutely going to have collect more data in this experiment. I just wanted to ask: Anybody else have trouble with the iPad Mini 6?


****And yes, the mini is for my partner, and he doesn't have any of our PWM issues, so this fun thing will probably be grand for him.

We are definitely superhero’s in this thread.

iPad Mini 6 should have no PWM at all above 10% brightness, so try setting the brightness slightly higher. It’s possible temporal dithering is contributing, but that isn’t specified.

 

[happy orchard]

We are definitely superhero’s in this thread.

iPad Mini 6 should have no PWM at all above 10% brightness, so try setting the brightness slightly higher. It’s possible temporal dithering is contributing, but that isn’t specified.

Yeah, I saw the no PWM above 10% and messed around with the brightness, but to noticeable avail. Giving my physical self a break, then I'll try RWP. I use that on pretty much all devices, so that might have been an issue as well. Temporal dithering, that just sounds like something that would mess with a human brain, doesn't it?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yeah, I saw the no PWM above 10% and messed around with the brightness, but to noticeable avail. Giving my physical self a break, then I'll try RWP. I use that on pretty much all devices, so that might have been an issue as well. Temporal dithering, that just sounds like something that would mess with a human brain, doesn't it?

Isn’t constantly flickering our window into content also a similar conundrum?

 

[happy orchard]

Isn’t constantly flickering our window into content also a similar conundrum?

Absolutely. I'm just playing with the language. 'Pulse Width Modulation' almost sounds technically helpful. 'Temporal dithering' just sounds like it's screwing with you and your sense of time maybe.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Totally forgot about the jelly scroll until I was actually scrolling and went whoa what the heck?! My brain felt like the world was flinching. Did not like that. But yes I did turn it landscape, and things were better, so it's nice to have a simple solution.

How you doing with it?

I didn't commit to owning one. Bought at release but the jelly scroll was so obvious to me and I didn't want to be forced into using only in landscape. I'm hoping the 11" M1 shows up in the refurb store soon.