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Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
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I enjoy my 13 mini. It used to give me pretty apparent OLED “bite” while scrolling but no other major discomfort beyond that. Although it has seemed far improved (smoother) to me on later versions of iOS 16.1/16.2 betas.
Also I don’t find that I need Reduce White Point or anything. Just True Tone on, Night Shift on sunset to sunrise, the usual stuff. Guess I lucked out with the 13 mini and my old 12 before it, but it is nice to know there are some OLED models that work for me. The 14 Pro and XS, on the other hand, I found basically unusable.
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It’s a film, not glass. It says it’s for the iPhone 13 but it fits the 14 perfectly
Here’s another one that is glass. Though I have not tried this one
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The mini is a great phone. If I could’ve made it work with the screen last year I’d still be using that. Plus, you have a Sim tray!I enjoy my 13 mini. It used to give me pretty apparent OLED “bite” while scrolling but no other major discomfort beyond that. Although it has seemed far improved (smoother) to me on later versions of iOS 16.1/16.2 betas.
Also I don’t find that I need Reduce White Point or anything. Just True Tone on, Night Shift on sunset to sunrise, the usual stuff. Guess I lucked out with the 13 mini and my old 12 before it, but it is nice to know there are some OLED models that work for me. The 14 Pro and XS, on the other hand, I found basically unusable.
I woke up with virtually no headache today… of course I’m crazy enough to consider trying iPhone 14 by itself for a few minutes to see how it feels, but at the same time I should just find a PWM-free alternative to my MacBook Pro and embrace a headache-free life.
It’s just a shame since the MacBook Pro has boosted my productivity, and would make my Mac experience significantly more enjoyable if it wasn’t for the tension headaches.
Realistically though we’re in the 1% of users that are perceptible, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as the display is flickering and our brains are picking up on it, so we should only have flicker-free displays. Although it’s funny there are plenty of displays and devices, even lightbulbs, that flicker that don’t cause any issues for me personally. So it’s a very specific sensitivity.
But I’m already looking at myself as crazy typing this on my iPhone SE with no headaches like I’m wanting to bring on tension headaches, and dreading potentially using my MacBook Pro later. It’d be smarter to drop the conversation if I had no flickering Apple devices constantly reminding me that I’m sensitive to all of Apple’s PWM implementations.
It’s just a shame since the MacBook Pro has boosted my productivity, and would make my Mac experience significantly more enjoyable if it wasn’t for the tension headaches.
Realistically though we’re in the 1% of users that are perceptible, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as the display is flickering and our brains are picking up on it, so we should only have flicker-free displays. Although it’s funny there are plenty of displays and devices, even lightbulbs, that flicker that don’t cause any issues for me personally. So it’s a very specific sensitivity.
But I’m already looking at myself as crazy typing this on my iPhone SE with no headaches like I’m wanting to bring on tension headaches, and dreading potentially using my MacBook Pro later. It’d be smarter to drop the conversation if I had no flickering Apple devices constantly reminding me that I’m sensitive to all of Apple’s PWM implementations.
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I did all my work at work on Windows computers. I had a Dell laptop issued from work also so I could bring it with me anywhere. (Graphic design, page layout and 3D modeling/rendering).
Everything I ever needed to do computer wise for work was always done on Windows PCs.
Personally I kinda despised Windows and had a Mac at home but I have to concede that anything you want to do — you can do on a windows PC just as easily.
Everything I ever needed to do computer wise for work was always done on Windows PCs.
Personally I kinda despised Windows and had a Mac at home but I have to concede that anything you want to do — you can do on a windows PC just as easily.
Seriously, sitting here on my iPhone SE almost makes me feel stupid for having exposed myself to constant headaches for months in an attempt to use PWM-flickering OLED and Mini LED displays. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Such a big difference not having those constant and persistent headaches…
Well, not that it’s any consolation to anyone, but maybe some hope for yah: I haven’t thought about eye strain at all in the last few weeks on the 14pro (other than once in low light).
Regardless of PWM flicker rate, this screen is great.
(For reference: 11pro no problem, 12mini had to return sharp eye pain, 11 regular weirdness… 13 mini minor discomfort learned to live with it)
Regardless of PWM flicker rate, this screen is great.
(For reference: 11pro no problem, 12mini had to return sharp eye pain, 11 regular weirdness… 13 mini minor discomfort learned to live with it)
The model I really wanted was a 13 Mini, and I ended up picking one up last Tuesday evening (now that Apple has their holiday return window in effect) to try out.
It honestly has been just fine, no issues using it for those 5 days or so, which was fantastic. I found that having brightness at 30% and reduce whitepoint at 50% was good for me, not too bright and seemingly no irritation/headaches from the PWM.
For those who endured all of my other posts here, I get frequent headaches and have had them for many years, going back before I even had smartphones. They have picked up in frequency in the last couple of years, which just happens to coincide with when I have had OLED phones (iphone 12 Mini for a year when it came out, and then a 13 Pro for the last year)- but also coincides with working from home in a poorly lit office with poor ergonomics, so there are plenty of other reasons for why the headaches could have increased during that time.
I was not ever able to correlate headaches directly to use of the phones- no eye strain when looking at them, no immediate headache during or right after- it was random, with sometimes good stretches of a few days with no headaches even while using those phones- even when using them for rather long periods of time.
But, just to try to rule OLED flicker out, I bought an SE3 recently and tried using that, knowing it has no PWM. I started having dry/irritated feeling eyes whenever looking at it, which seemed so odd, never really encountered that before.
I seemingly felt that same sensation when looking at any other phones in the Apple store- any of the OLED phones or the SE's that they had there, so I think it may just be something my eyes are going through now that cold, dry winter-like weather has settled in- just right at the time that I made that move to the SE3.
But, in the last few days when I've mostly been using my 13 Mini, that condition was minimal- maybe I just had a few good days, or maybe that phone is better for my eyes in this regard? So hard to say....
But with all of that in mind, I went to my carrier today- the end of my 2 week return window- and returned the SE. They were so kind as to waive the restocking fee, so no loss at all in returning it.
However, immediately after I started thinking I may regret returning it. Sure I like the 13 Mini a bit more, I like the few upgrades it has over the SE, with the better cameras, the slightly bigger screen, the more modern form factor- but with the SE I liked the idea of having PWM out of my life, just in the off chance that it was somehow- even just occasionally- making my headache situation a bit worse.
Was it a coincidence that I've done quite a bit better the last few weeks, the same window where I have been using SE's (I had a couple different ones, as I did an exchange once to get more storage)? That is what keeps going through my mind, especially tonight when dealing with this headache that is not severe- but is similar to the ones I have NOT experienced since starting to use the SE's. However, that headache could be random- or could be because I spent a very long time using the two phones- probably about 2-3 hours solid, which is far more than I usually ever spend in one shot on a phone- comparing/contrasting them to make my decision on going to return the SE or not.
So, my plan is- I will use this 13 Mini now for the next few days and see if I have the same level of dry/irritated eye feeling that I had with the SE, and of course to see if I get more headaches. If I get to Thanksgiving weekend and it is clear that the dry eye thing is absolutely the same as it was with the SE, I might go ahead and order an SE again directly from Apple, and take advantage of the $50 gift card they are offering during that holiday weekend, and then return the Mini.
I'm so torn as I do like the Mini, but yet I still can't shake the feeling that maybe I should have just stuck with the SE to get PWM out of my life so it's not even something I have to think about....
The time spent thinking about all of this and dealing with return windows and going in to make returns is just so frustrating- especially when I make a choice like I did today that I start to think was the wrong one.
Ugh- sorry for the long ramble here, I just had to share and get that all off my chest!
It honestly has been just fine, no issues using it for those 5 days or so, which was fantastic. I found that having brightness at 30% and reduce whitepoint at 50% was good for me, not too bright and seemingly no irritation/headaches from the PWM.
For those who endured all of my other posts here, I get frequent headaches and have had them for many years, going back before I even had smartphones. They have picked up in frequency in the last couple of years, which just happens to coincide with when I have had OLED phones (iphone 12 Mini for a year when it came out, and then a 13 Pro for the last year)- but also coincides with working from home in a poorly lit office with poor ergonomics, so there are plenty of other reasons for why the headaches could have increased during that time.
I was not ever able to correlate headaches directly to use of the phones- no eye strain when looking at them, no immediate headache during or right after- it was random, with sometimes good stretches of a few days with no headaches even while using those phones- even when using them for rather long periods of time.
But, just to try to rule OLED flicker out, I bought an SE3 recently and tried using that, knowing it has no PWM. I started having dry/irritated feeling eyes whenever looking at it, which seemed so odd, never really encountered that before.
I seemingly felt that same sensation when looking at any other phones in the Apple store- any of the OLED phones or the SE's that they had there, so I think it may just be something my eyes are going through now that cold, dry winter-like weather has settled in- just right at the time that I made that move to the SE3.
But, in the last few days when I've mostly been using my 13 Mini, that condition was minimal- maybe I just had a few good days, or maybe that phone is better for my eyes in this regard? So hard to say....
But with all of that in mind, I went to my carrier today- the end of my 2 week return window- and returned the SE. They were so kind as to waive the restocking fee, so no loss at all in returning it.
However, immediately after I started thinking I may regret returning it. Sure I like the 13 Mini a bit more, I like the few upgrades it has over the SE, with the better cameras, the slightly bigger screen, the more modern form factor- but with the SE I liked the idea of having PWM out of my life, just in the off chance that it was somehow- even just occasionally- making my headache situation a bit worse.
Was it a coincidence that I've done quite a bit better the last few weeks, the same window where I have been using SE's (I had a couple different ones, as I did an exchange once to get more storage)? That is what keeps going through my mind, especially tonight when dealing with this headache that is not severe- but is similar to the ones I have NOT experienced since starting to use the SE's. However, that headache could be random- or could be because I spent a very long time using the two phones- probably about 2-3 hours solid, which is far more than I usually ever spend in one shot on a phone- comparing/contrasting them to make my decision on going to return the SE or not.
So, my plan is- I will use this 13 Mini now for the next few days and see if I have the same level of dry/irritated eye feeling that I had with the SE, and of course to see if I get more headaches. If I get to Thanksgiving weekend and it is clear that the dry eye thing is absolutely the same as it was with the SE, I might go ahead and order an SE again directly from Apple, and take advantage of the $50 gift card they are offering during that holiday weekend, and then return the Mini.
I'm so torn as I do like the Mini, but yet I still can't shake the feeling that maybe I should have just stuck with the SE to get PWM out of my life so it's not even something I have to think about....
The time spent thinking about all of this and dealing with return windows and going in to make returns is just so frustrating- especially when I make a choice like I did today that I start to think was the wrong one.
Ugh- sorry for the long ramble here, I just had to share and get that all off my chest!
We get it. We do. 🍀The model I really wanted was a 13 Mini, and I ended up picking one up last Tuesday evening (now that Apple has their holiday return window in effect) to try out.
It honestly has been just fine, no issues using it for those 5 days or so, which was fantastic. I found that having brightness at 30% and reduce whitepoint at 50% was good for me, not too bright and seemingly no irritation/headaches from the PWM.
For those who endured all of my other posts here, I get frequent headaches and have had them for many years, going back before I even had smartphones. They have picked up in frequency in the last couple of years, which just happens to coincide with when I have had OLED phones (iphone 12 Mini for a year when it came out, and then a 13 Pro for the last year)- but also coincides with working from home in a poorly lit office with poor ergonomics, so there are plenty of other reasons for why the headaches could have increased during that time.
I was not ever able to correlate headaches directly to use of the phones- no eye strain when looking at them, no immediate headache during or right after- it was random, with sometimes good stretches of a few days with no headaches even while using those phones- even when using them for rather long periods of time.
But, just to try to rule OLED flicker out, I bought an SE3 recently and tried using that, knowing it has no PWM. I started having dry/irritated feeling eyes whenever looking at it, which seemed so odd, never really encountered that before.
I seemingly felt that same sensation when looking at any other phones in the Apple store- any of the OLED phones or the SE's that they had there, so I think it may just be something my eyes are going through now that cold, dry winter-like weather has settled in- just right at the time that I made that move to the SE3.
But, in the last few days when I've mostly been using my 13 Mini, that condition was minimal- maybe I just had a few good days, or maybe that phone is better for my eyes in this regard? So hard to say....
But with all of that in mind, I went to my carrier today- the end of my 2 week return window- and returned the SE. They were so kind as to waive the restocking fee, so no loss at all in returning it.
However, immediately after I started thinking I may regret returning it. Sure I like the 13 Mini a bit more, I like the few upgrades it has over the SE, with the better cameras, the slightly bigger screen, the more modern form factor- but with the SE I liked the idea of having PWM out of my life, just in the off chance that it was somehow- even just occasionally- making my headache situation a bit worse.
Was it a coincidence that I've done quite a bit better the last few weeks, the same window where I have been using SE's (I had a couple different ones, as I did an exchange once to get more storage)? That is what keeps going through my mind, especially tonight when dealing with this headache that is not severe- but is similar to the ones I have NOT experienced since starting to use the SE's. However, that headache could be random- or could be because I spent a very long time using the two phones- probably about 2-3 hours solid, which is far more than I usually ever spend in one shot on a phone- comparing/contrasting them to make my decision on going to return the SE or not.
So, my plan is- I will use this 13 Mini now for the next few days and see if I have the same level of dry/irritated eye feeling that I had with the SE, and of course to see if I get more headaches. If I get to Thanksgiving weekend and it is clear that the dry eye thing is absolutely the same as it was with the SE, I might go ahead and order an SE again directly from Apple, and take advantage of the $50 gift card they are offering during that holiday weekend, and then return the Mini.
I'm so torn as I do like the Mini, but yet I still can't shake the feeling that maybe I should have just stuck with the SE to get PWM out of my life so it's not even something I have to think about....
The time spent thinking about all of this and dealing with return windows and going in to make returns is just so frustrating- especially when I make a choice like I did today that I start to think was the wrong one.
Ugh- sorry for the long ramble here, I just had to share and get that all off my chest!
This mighy sound crazy i was fine with iphone 11 but recently maybe update ips 16 been having weird sensation and slight headache
Iphone 8 still ok
Iphone 8 still ok
Personal experience over here talking: but I also had very minimal effects from the 13 mini and just stuck with it to enjoy it. The newer phone perks (e.g. second camera, swipe navigation) were enough to overpower any downsides of the screen.The model I really wanted was a 13 Mini, and I ended up picking one up last Tuesday evening (now that Apple has their holiday return window in effect) to try out.
It honestly has been just fine, no issues using it for those 5 days or so, which was fantastic. I found that having brightness at 30% and reduce whitepoint at 50% was good for me, not too bright and seemingly no irritation/headaches from the PWM.
For those who endured all of my other posts here, I get frequent headaches and have had them for many years, going back before I even had smartphones. They have picked up in frequency in the last couple of years, which just happens to coincide with when I have had OLED phones (iphone 12 Mini for a year when it came out, and then a 13 Pro for the last year)- but also coincides with working from home in a poorly lit office with poor ergonomics, so there are plenty of other reasons for why the headaches could have increased during that time.
I was not ever able to correlate headaches directly to use of the phones- no eye strain when looking at them, no immediate headache during or right after- it was random, with sometimes good stretches of a few days with no headaches even while using those phones- even when using them for rather long periods of time.
But, just to try to rule OLED flicker out, I bought an SE3 recently and tried using that, knowing it has no PWM. I started having dry/irritated feeling eyes whenever looking at it, which seemed so odd, never really encountered that before.
I seemingly felt that same sensation when looking at any other phones in the Apple store- any of the OLED phones or the SE's that they had there, so I think it may just be something my eyes are going through now that cold, dry winter-like weather has settled in- just right at the time that I made that move to the SE3.
But, in the last few days when I've mostly been using my 13 Mini, that condition was minimal- maybe I just had a few good days, or maybe that phone is better for my eyes in this regard? So hard to say....
But with all of that in mind, I went to my carrier today- the end of my 2 week return window- and returned the SE. They were so kind as to waive the restocking fee, so no loss at all in returning it.
However, immediately after I started thinking I may regret returning it. Sure I like the 13 Mini a bit more, I like the few upgrades it has over the SE, with the better cameras, the slightly bigger screen, the more modern form factor- but with the SE I liked the idea of having PWM out of my life, just in the off chance that it was somehow- even just occasionally- making my headache situation a bit worse.
Was it a coincidence that I've done quite a bit better the last few weeks, the same window where I have been using SE's (I had a couple different ones, as I did an exchange once to get more storage)? That is what keeps going through my mind, especially tonight when dealing with this headache that is not severe- but is similar to the ones I have NOT experienced since starting to use the SE's. However, that headache could be random- or could be because I spent a very long time using the two phones- probably about 2-3 hours solid, which is far more than I usually ever spend in one shot on a phone- comparing/contrasting them to make my decision on going to return the SE or not.
So, my plan is- I will use this 13 Mini now for the next few days and see if I have the same level of dry/irritated eye feeling that I had with the SE, and of course to see if I get more headaches. If I get to Thanksgiving weekend and it is clear that the dry eye thing is absolutely the same as it was with the SE, I might go ahead and order an SE again directly from Apple, and take advantage of the $50 gift card they are offering during that holiday weekend, and then return the Mini.
I'm so torn as I do like the Mini, but yet I still can't shake the feeling that maybe I should have just stuck with the SE to get PWM out of my life so it's not even something I have to think about....
The time spent thinking about all of this and dealing with return windows and going in to make returns is just so frustrating- especially when I make a choice like I did today that I start to think was the wrong one.
Ugh- sorry for the long ramble here, I just had to share and get that all off my chest!
So again opinion based on complete subjective experience, but I think you should keep the mini and enjoy it.
Time & again (over & over in this thread) someone gets a new iPhone and uses it excessively for longer than usual and they develop eyestrain and headaches.
Gritty feeling eyes is classic over use.
While the new display tech likely is the cause, all of us have got to be EXTRA careful not to spend too much time on a new phone.
We should set time limits- like 30 minutes a day max and see how things go. None of us are doing ourselves any favors by spending excessive time staring at these damn things.
Gritty feeling eyes is classic over use.
While the new display tech likely is the cause, all of us have got to be EXTRA careful not to spend too much time on a new phone.
We should set time limits- like 30 minutes a day max and see how things go. None of us are doing ourselves any favors by spending excessive time staring at these damn things.
You're not crazy at all, i always had tired eyes with iPhone 11, amd I'm quite sure iOS 16 introduced temporal dithering (or made it worse on device that already had it, i.e. iPhone 11 itself), i updated my 2018 iPad Pro, verified that my eyes got immediate discomfort, and reverted back to iPadOS 15.7.1 as soon as I could (they closed 15 OSes signature now)
I agree with a lot of this post. Obviously, some of us shouldn’t even use these phones for a minute. Especially those who get debilitating migraines from even short use. There’s some of us who get minor symptoms that have to ask ourselves the question is that an OK thing? Will it progress to something else or will we “get used to it“?
But I like what you said about excessive use. There’s a little bit of mania with trying a new phone and having the stress about if it’s going to work or not and we may end up using the phone far more than we would in normal usage.
So that may not be an accurate representation of our phone use. Some things to ponder!
PWM or not, a thirty minute time limit is good for everyone 😅 hard as heck to follow, but good 👍
Regardless of PWM sensitivity, my eye doc says that one of the worst things we can do to our eyes is stare at screens.
This was exactly my experience with an iPhone 12 Pro last week. Eye strain and tension headache at a lesser severity than with my Macbook Air M1, but still bothersome and uncomfortable. I wrote to Apple feedback yesterday and then followed up with tech support and requested a phone call from a supervisor. Naturally, I was assured that nothing changed from 15 to 16 wrt the display so I should focus my attention on brightness, etc. Right, even though all of my settings from iOS 15 carried over to 16.
Would you be able to share what you know about temporal dithering? I can't find anything about it online, it sounds like the suspicion is that Apple LCD displays have it- the 11, and even the SE models- but is there any way to know for sure? And how does that work- is it really only in effect when watching HDR videos, or is dithering occurring all the time, even when simply looking at random news websites or social media?
And do the OLED displays have temporal dithering? I know Notebookcheck confirmed that the 14 Pro does NOT have dithering- would that perhaps mean that the other 14's and even the 13 series do not have it, either? Is there something different about OLED where ditherhing isn't necessary vs. the need to use it on LCD displays?
I had this long ago with my iphone 8. I was using it without any for years and after some ios update it was completly unusable for me. Although i didn´t notice any difference myself.
I hate to do it, as I prefer their hardware to any other offering, but with 3 out of 4 Apple devices causing eye issues for me, it might be time to explore other options. The iPhone, the Macbook, and the Apple TV 4K are all problematic for my eyes. Even watching Apple TV programming via the app on our LG TV bothers me. Switch over to Netflix or Hulu? I'm good. My Apple watch is the only product that I can use without some sort of issue...so far.
Has anyone seen the Huawei Mate 50 Pro Notebookcheck review? Does anyone really understand this 😂? No PWM was detected?
www.notebookcheck.net
Huawei Mate 50 Pro smartphone review: The camera star has problems
Huawei is once again offering a camera flagship in the Mate 50 Pro at a steep price this year. Variable aperture, optical zoom, high performance, a high-quality case and an OLED screen may well justify the price , but there is another problem...
Well, it had been a while since I last tried an OLED screen, last time was a Oneplus One when they first released that model, it immediately caused problems for me and within a day or two I was so dizzy that standing wasn't an option! it then hit me the phone was the cause, literally couldn't get out the chair at one point.
Anyway, fast forward a few years and I picked up a new iPhone 11 Pro to try out of interest. Within a few minutes my head felt all warm and fuzzy, I used it briefly for a few minutes more and no change. Luckily last year I also picked up a brand new 256GB 8 Plus since I suspected the OLED writing was on the wall, guess now it might be wise for me to get a standard 11 to try out.
The 11 Pro was purchased with this outcome in mind and as such it will be passed to a family member, also got a new XS Max for a 'good' price, this will be tested at a later date but suspecting the same end result. You don't know until you try of course.
My symptoms are best described as warm fuzzy pressure, can't do much better than that for now. So annoying but what can you do, can't say the colour shift off angle pleases me greatly with OLED either but that is not a massive issue. This thread has been most useful, I just wish someone at Apple would actually take note, own this PWM and put it to bed once and for all.
If anyone has any pro tips for the 11 Pro re brightness settings and/or white point I am all ears, tried 50% brightness or higher and did briefly reduce white point, suspect none of this will really help but maybe worth a shot.
Anyway, fast forward a few years and I picked up a new iPhone 11 Pro to try out of interest. Within a few minutes my head felt all warm and fuzzy, I used it briefly for a few minutes more and no change. Luckily last year I also picked up a brand new 256GB 8 Plus since I suspected the OLED writing was on the wall, guess now it might be wise for me to get a standard 11 to try out.
The 11 Pro was purchased with this outcome in mind and as such it will be passed to a family member, also got a new XS Max for a 'good' price, this will be tested at a later date but suspecting the same end result. You don't know until you try of course.
My symptoms are best described as warm fuzzy pressure, can't do much better than that for now. So annoying but what can you do, can't say the colour shift off angle pleases me greatly with OLED either but that is not a massive issue. This thread has been most useful, I just wish someone at Apple would actually take note, own this PWM and put it to bed once and for all.
If anyone has any pro tips for the 11 Pro re brightness settings and/or white point I am all ears, tried 50% brightness or higher and did briefly reduce white point, suspect none of this will really help but maybe worth a shot.
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