Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[john g.]

Sorry if this question has already been answered but is there a good screen protector that doesn't cause eye strain and isn't made out of glass? I ask cause the last time I had a screen protector that was glass, it was very painful to remove.

See post # 7754 🙂

 

[happy orchard]

Well, I fixed the issue with the photos so that’s a great thing. However, the thin, smaller text is bothering me. On my 11, I have it on zoomed. It makes everything perfect sized for my personal self. The boldness, size of apps, overall text size, etc. No combination of tweaks can replicate that on here. I was able to on the Pro Max however. So now I am questioning my return of the Pro Max 😫

I’m not gonna lie….I’m almost happy I’m currently experiencing strain and full-headedness. Keeping my 11 would just simplify things. Oh, and the speakers on the Pro Max blow these phones away. They are SO loud and clear. I hate all of this lol.

Dude, go get the Pro Max again.

If you can, keep the 11, get the 14PM, and use both.

Or, ignore everything I've just written. I write all of that based purely on the myriad messages you've posted. Seems like an 11/14PM combo might make you happy, and I just thought I'd be a voice encouraging you.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

I can’t recall, did you send back your pro max because it was too big and heavy or was it causing you symptoms?

This second time I was irritated with the size and the photo issues so I returned it. The jury is out as to whether it gives me PWM issues or not. Probably would, but can’t confirm as of now.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Dude, go get the Pro Max again.

If you can, keep the 11, get the 14PM, and use both.

Or, ignore everything I've just written. I write all of that based purely on the myriad messages you've posted. Seems like an 11/14PM combo might make you happy, and I just thought I'd be a voice encouraging you.

I appreciate the suggestion. One thing I’ve always been is a one-stop-shop device user. I have a few buddies who go back and forth between phones and I simply could never do it. I would go crazy with eSim transferring, trying to keep everything synced, questioning which phone to use, etc. My phone is basically my sole tool. I’ve never personally owned a tablet and never will. I’m just a phone guy who occasionally uses my MacBook. Eventually I’ll figure it out. Unfortunately for me, the only three phones I’m willing to consider all have cons with the pros.

 

[nadiamo]

So as mentioned last week I decided to keep the 14 and sent my 11 back for trade in. Since then my symptoms have been mostly gone and honestly I think 14 is gonna work for me at this point. I don't feel the light dizziness much anymore so fingers crossed I'm going to be able to keep this phone for long term use. Good luck everyone! I still hope Apple will consider making a LCD flagship phone some day and I won't hesitate to jump back on that.

 

[Ohwhatastorm]

Actually not much
But I always knew iPhone 11 has it (but I cannot find any source now, maybe that’s the explanation I made up myself since I could use iPhone XR, could use iPad Air, Air 2, iPad Pro 2018 until iPadOS 16, without issue).
I guess iPadOS introduced dithering as I noticed a slight change in colour rendition, but it’s my guess (and I think it’s more likely they introduce dithering instead of pwm on standard lcd)

I also can’t use the iPhone 11, it’s nice to see someone with the same issues. I never tried the XR, hopefully if the new SE comes out with an XR chassis it works with my eyes.

I’ve used the SE gen 2 and SE gen 3 with no problems, basically anything Apple calls a “retina” screen, but not anything with a “Liquid Retina” screen.

 

[happy orchard]

I appreciate the suggestion. One thing I’ve always been is a one-stop-shop device user. I have a few buddies who go back and forth between phones and I simply could never do it. I would go crazy with eSim transferring, trying to keep everything synced, questioning which phone to use, etc. My phone is basically my sole tool. I’ve never personally owned a tablet and never will. I’m just a phone guy who occasionally uses my MacBook. Eventually I’ll figure it out. Unfortunately for me, the only three phones I’m willing to consider all have cons with the pros.

I hear you. Now with esim, I find it worse to switch (I know some people say it's easy peasy, but those of us who have had to switch several times now may have different opinions on ease.) I've kept the sim in my 14PM and just use the 11 at home on wifi. The 14PM works well for me outside, so it's a good phone to take into the real world. But at home, sometimes at night or I just feel like it, I use the 11. Less and less though. Starting to get more comfortable with the 14PM??? Could my eyes and brain be adapting??? It's definitely better than previous generations for me.

Anyway, I hope you find your happy phone with fewer cons...funny that 'pro' was your final word in that post.

 

[DJTaurus]

I hear you. Now with esim, I find it worse to switch (I know some people say it's easy peasy, but those of us who have had to switch several times now may have different opinions on ease.) I've kept the sim in my 14PM and just use the 11 at home on wifi. The 14PM works well for me outside, so it's a good phone to take into the real world. But at home, sometimes at night or I just feel like it, I use the 11. Less and less though. Starting to get more comfortable with the 14PM??? Could my eyes and brain be adapting??? It's definitely better than previous generations for me.

Anyway, I hope you find your happy phone with fewer cons...funny that 'pro' was your final word in that post.

I am curious why pro max works better for many people than 14 pro.

 

[now i see it]

Think of screen intolerance as an allergic reaction. Some people can eat apples while others can’t get near them. Some can eat avocados while others get nailed by them.
Some people can’t tolerate shell fish, while others aren’t bothered at all.
The list goes on & on for allergies. People can have an adverse reaction to anything — including flickering iPhone screens.
Each iPhone model has a different screen type (big, small etc) so they’re not all identical.

 

[happy orchard]

I am curious why pro max works better for many people than 14 pro.

Idk. The Pro wasn’t horribly worse. Hard to say.

 

[HarryRolex]

I used S10 for almost two years before switching to an iPhone 14 Pro Max, which has more PWM frequency than the S10, at least according to papers (S10 has 240HZ whereas iPhone 14 Pro Max has 250HZ <39% brightness). Shortly after switching to the 14 Pro Max, I started experiencing discomfort and within a week or so, severe headaches and pain in the eyes while moving the eyes upwards and downwards. I did some research and discovered few things and started tweaking my iPhone and eventually nothing worked.

After losing $200 on the sale of the 14 Pro Max, I converted to S22 Ultra, which operates at a much lower frequency than the 14 Pro Max (usually 120 Hz), and I never experienced any real discomfort. I did some research and discovered an article that explains the distinction between OLED and AMOLED, but I don't think I'm sensitive to PWM; instead, I think I'm sensitive to the OLEDs that iPhone was utilising in its smartphones.

When compared to AMOLED, OLED is less expensive, and it lacks the additional TT layer that makes the colours look more brilliant (which is helpful for clarity but extremely harmful to certain people's eyes). Your eyes will eventually grow tired and all the nerves that are connected to your eyes, including the ones in your ears, neck, shoulders, and the area around your eyes, will become uncomfortable and may even experience mild to severe pain. Displays with this colour calibration will constantly ask your eyes to focus more and force them to re-work and refocus almost constantly. Long-term use may give you migraines that last a lifetime. The hardware, not the software, is the issue.

 

[Ron750]

That's really too bad. Sadly Apple has no choice if they continue to use Samsung screens. You should look at the LG V30 if you and your son wanted to buy OLED phones. The phone is stunning and what the X should've looked like. Apparently later batches of the phone have been better, and Verizon also has a $200 pre-paid gift card offer on the V30. It's a good deal, in my opinion ($640 when it's all said and done).

I’ve been an optometrist for 40 years. Get an eye exam. Make sure they do your final Rx by doubling the image, making them equally blurry, then clearing the image. If your refractionist only does it monocularly, you might be overminused or underplussed. This will result in headaches and variable vision.

 

[Mastrociambella]

I used S10 for almost two years before switching to an iPhone 14 Pro Max, which has more PWM frequency than the S10, at least according to papers (S10 has 240HZ whereas iPhone 14 Pro Max has 250HZ <39% brightness). Shortly after switching to the 14 Pro Max, I started experiencing discomfort and within a week or so, severe headaches and pain in the eyes while moving the eyes upwards and downwards. I did some research and discovered few things and started tweaking my iPhone and eventually nothing worked.







After losing $200 on the sale of the 14 Pro Max, I converted to S22 Ultra, which operates at a much lower frequency than the 14 Pro Max (usually 120 Hz), and I never experienced any real discomfort. I did some research and discovered an article that explains the distinction between OLED and AMOLED, but I don't think I'm sensitive to PWM; instead, I think I'm sensitive to the OLEDs that iPhone was utilising in its smartphones.







When compared to AMOLED, OLED is less expensive, and it lacks the additional TT layer that makes the colours look more brilliant (which is helpful for clarity but extremely harmful to certain people's eyes). Your eyes will eventually grow tired and all the nerves that are connected to your eyes, including the ones in your ears, neck, shoulders, and the area around your eyes, will become uncomfortable and may even experience mild to severe pain. Displays with this colour calibration will constantly ask your eyes to focus more and force them to re-work and refocus almost constantly. Long-term use may give you migraines that last a lifetime. The hardware, not the software, is the issue.





I don'isknow what the issue is with this quoted message, I'll reply here

Colour brilliance is clearly straining, but even using reduce white point on iOS colours get "quieter" but discomf ort persists.



I have S21 Ultra, and if i don't use Oled Saver app I feel eye straining...less than on iPhones but it's still there. I think that the issue is still pwm (with temporal dithering often), but frequency is not the only value that matters (for example, last year iPhone 13 pros already had quite high frequency, but somebody on the major topic about pwm posted some.chinese evaluation that reported that they would provide "major risk", I can't remember if it was due to amplitude or even another different value

 

[Leindt]

I used S10 for almost two years before switching to an iPhone 14 Pro Max, which has more PWM frequency than the S10, at least according to papers (S10 has 240HZ whereas iPhone 14 Pro Max has 250HZ <39% brightness). Shortly after switching to the 14 Pro Max, I started experiencing discomfort and within a week or so, severe headaches and pain in the eyes while moving the eyes upwards and downwards. I did some research and discovered few things and started tweaking my iPhone and eventually nothing worked.

After losing $200 on the sale of the 14 Pro Max, I converted to S22 Ultra, which operates at a much lower frequency than the 14 Pro Max (usually 120 Hz), and I never experienced any real discomfort. I did some research and discovered an article that explains the distinction between OLED and AMOLED, but I don't think I'm sensitive to PWM; instead, I think I'm sensitive to the OLEDs that iPhone was utilising in its smartphones.

When compared to AMOLED, OLED is less expensive, and it lacks the additional TT layer that makes the colours look more brilliant (which is helpful for clarity but extremely harmful to certain people's eyes). Your eyes will eventually grow tired and all the nerves that are connected to your eyes, including the ones in your ears, neck, shoulders, and the area around your eyes, will become uncomfortable and may even experience mild to severe pain. Displays with this colour calibration will constantly ask your eyes to focus more and force them to re-work and refocus almost constantly. Long-term use may give you migraines that last a lifetime. The hardware, not the software, is the issue.

I can confirm about migraines that last a lifetime, I don't know it it's because of difference between AMOLED or OLED, but there is a key risk factor in this type of screens and its long-term effects, we are like guinea pigs.

 

[pwm away]

Finally got an opportunity to head into a store and test 3 of the 4 current iPhone 14 range for flicker ratio percentage.

Sorry it took a while @MICHAELSD

Here's what I've found:

	100%	75%	50%	25%	RWP 25%	RWP50%	RWP 75%	RWP 90%
iPhone 14	5.27%	9.55%	9.30%	10.5%	5.25%	5.07%	5.67%	7.21%
iPhone 14 Plus	5.08%	9.86%	9.90%	10.5%	4.93%	4.85%	5.39%	6.95%
iPhone 14 Pro Max	11.9%	13.5%	16.1%	18.2%	12.4%	13.3%	14.7%	17.0%

Note 1: I didn't get a chance to test the iPhone 14 Pro, however, based on last year's Pro range results, I expect it to be very similar to the iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Note 2: On the iPhone 14 Pro Max, I tested turning off ProMotion; it had no significant impact on the flicker ratio percentage.

Note 3: I've done some quick testing with turning off True Tone and/or Night Shift ... preliminary results indicate that turning them off increases the flicker ratio percentage, albeit by only a short amount.

Note 4: I've decided to get myself the iPhone 14 Plus to test out as my personal phone; I've only just set it up yesterday, and will report back over the next week.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Thank you so much for sharing the long-awaited results @pwm away, and my apologies for being away from this thread for the past few days—if I’m not using an OLED iPhone I feel less of a reason to be here. I need to bring myself to sell my MacBook Pro, as that’s still a concern for headaches.

Hmm, speaking of: is there any way we can get flicker coefficient results for the Mini LED iPad Pro/MacBook Pro just for reference? It’s not necessary since it won’t change the end result, more or less just curious.

Truth be told I gave iPhone 14 one last chance then promptly boxed it up.

Oddly I do feel like I had a slightly better experience with iPhone 14 Pro Max, but it’s still far from ideal. I’m enjoying using my third-generation iPhone SE to the point I feel no reason to continue distracting myself with iPhone 14. @DJTaurus

The flicker coefficient results don’t surprise me: the iPhone 14 series still uses PWM no matter what anyone says. I’ll only consider it DC dimming once there’s a <.75% flicker coefficient like Apple’s LCD displays.

 

[MICHAELSD]

@MICHAELSD So I recently traded in my wife's iPhone 12 pro and bought the 14" MacBook Pro. Using it for a day now and I get severe tension headaches (pain occiput and base of neck). Is that a similar experience for you. I previously used an M1 MacBook Air with not much issues.
It seems like if we are sensitive to PWM then there is no hope to use any newer device with a high contrast screen. I'm worried the headache is not going to get better and I just wasted a ton of cash.

Some days are better than others, but it doesn’t get better unless there’s some degree of adjustment within the first day or two. Otherwise it’ll just be the same sensitivity continuously, which is a shame since this is probably another MacBook Pro I could have kept for ten years.

I’m considering the M1 Air, but the extremely high-frequency PWM under 50% brightness has me concerned. I’d like to wait for the next iMac Pro, which seems unlikely to have a Mini LED display considering the cost of Apple’s Studio XDR display. However, that figure may be outdated as the technology catches up in volume. Thus a M3 24” iMac may be in my future.

 

[pwm away]

Hmm, speaking of: is there any way we can get flicker coefficient results for the Mini LED iPad Pro/MacBook Pro just for reference? It’s not necessary since it won’t change the end result, more or less just curious.

@MICHAELSD

I have the M1 MacBook Pro 14" ... I've just given it a quick test: it hovers at <0.75% for most of the display brightness range; once you get to ~30% or less (5 squares displayed on the screen when adjusting brightness), you get to ~2.5%

I've been using this one for the past half year (or longer), and haven't had any noticeable issues (other than my eyes being tired after an 8+ hour day of screen only work ... that may just be normal)

 

[jrajpaul]

Some days are better than others, but it doesn’t get better unless there’s some degree of adjustment within the first day or two. Otherwise it’ll just be the same sensitivity continuously, which is a shame since this is probably another MacBook Pro I could have kept for ten years.

I’m considering the M1 Air, but the extremely high-frequency PWM under 50% brightness has me concerned. I’d like to wait for the next iMac Pro, which seems unlikely to have a Mini LED display considering the cost of Apple’s Studio XDR display. However, that figure may be outdated as the technology catches up in volume. Thus a M3 24” iMac may be in my future.

I have the MacBook Air M1 and it is certainly more comfortable (no headaches) to use than the MacBook Pro 14inch. It's also easier to read text. I am using the iPhone 11 as my phone (no headaches, very slight eye strain). I have also heard that the M2 Air should be fine. I kept the MacBook Pro 14 inch because in my country the return policy sucks (20percent handling fee which is +/- 400 dollars loss). I will see if I can get used to the miniLED screen and sell it later on if it becomes a problem. The good thing is that is doesn't cause vertigo or nausea like the OLED phones. It just causes pain at the base of my neck and it goes away after an hour. The OLED phone headaches and symptoms usually persist for hours/days. I am hoping that my brain can get used to the PWM on the miniLED screen in the same way the brain takes time to adjust to new prescription glasses. I do find myself consciously trying to relax my eye muscles when looking at the screen to prevent strain. The battery on the Air devices are way better then the Pro so that's a big plus if you are going that route. The baseline MacBook Air M1 is also perfectly fine for most tasks unless you plan on coding, video editing etc.

 

[MICHAELSD]

@MICHAELSD

I have the M1 MacBook Pro 14" ... I've just given it a quick test: it hovers at <0.75% for most of the display brightness range; once you get to ~30% or less (5 squares displayed on the screen when adjusting brightness), you get to ~2.5%

I've been using this one for the past half year (or longer), and haven't had any noticeable issues (other than my eyes being tired after an 8+ hour day of screen only work ... that may just be normal)

Hmm, that is quite shocking and makes me want to try to persist on.

I was considering buying a M1 iMac or MacBook Air before the end of the night so I have motivation the sell the Pro.

I would think the potential for headaches would be dramatically lessened with a 14,880Hz PWM rate. If flicker coefficients are <.75% over 30% brightness there should be no headaches in theory, yet I had a much better experience with the M2 MacBook Air—I just liked the MacBook Pro significantly more.

It’s also making me realize that I’m trying Apple products that I normally wouldn’t to find alternatives when I would be happy with the products causing sensitivity, which is another reason I’ve had notably more returns throughout the past few years even if I try to be responsible and limit them.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have the MacBook Air M1 and it is certainly more comfortable (no headaches) to use than the MacBook Pro 14inch. It's also easier to read text. I am using the iPhone 11 as my phone (no headaches, very slight eye strain). I have also heard that the M2 Air should be fine. I kept the MacBook Pro 14 inch because in my country the return policy sucks (20percent handling fee which is +/- 400 dollars loss). I will see if I can get used to the miniLED screen and sell it later on if it becomes a problem. The good thing is that is doesn't cause vertigo or nausea like the OLED phones. It just causes pain at the base of my neck and it goes away after an hour. The OLED phone headaches and symptoms usually persist for hours/days. I am hoping that my brain can get used to the PWM on the miniLED screen in the same way the brain takes time to adjust to new prescription glasses. I do find myself consciously trying to relax my eye muscles when looking at the screen to prevent strain. The battery on the Air devices are way better then the Pro so that's a big plus if you are going that route. The baseline MacBook Air M1 is also perfectly fine for most tasks unless you plan on coding, video editing etc.

I’m in a similar boat since I’m well out of the return window, and don’t look forward to selling it despite keeping it in flawless condition.

I don’t think a brain can adjust in a healthy manner to PWM, unless it causes a slight irritation at first that noticeably dissipates over a day or two.

 

[matthijst]

Been using the Pro Max for about a month now and think I've gotten used to it.

 

[pwm away]

I would think the potential for headaches would be dramatically lessened with a 14,880Hz PWM rate. If flicker coefficients are <.75% over 30% brightness there should be no headaches in theory, yet I had a much better experience with the M2 MacBook Air—I just liked the MacBook Pro significantly more.

I did have a M1 MacBook Air prior to the Pro, and that had a similar % at <0.75%, but it had it even below 30%, all the way down to 0% (or whatever the lowest setting represents).

I've just reconfirmed it ... I'm sitting at home, limited light, and the Pro's auto brightness has set it to 5 squares ... I'm measuring ~5.5%.

Going up just one square brings it back to <0.75% ... interestingly, going down one square brings it down to ~1.6% ... this confirms something that I've noticed on my iPhone 14 Plus, in that the % isn't necessarily linear (i.e. it doesn't necessarily get worse, the lower the brightness gets) ... I'll have more details on the 14 Plus a bit later.

It's the Christmas period, so you have until Jan to return to the Apple Store, so it might be worth a test, if you would like to go for the Pro ... I got it through work, otherwise, I'd be quite happy with the M2 Air.

 

[dstow]

I did have a M1 MacBook Air prior to the Pro, and that had a similar % at <0.75%, but it had it even below 30%, all the way down to 0% (or whatever the lowest setting represents).

I've just reconfirmed it ... I'm sitting at home, limited light, and the Pro's auto brightness has set it to 5 squares ... I'm measuring ~5.5%.

Going up just one square brings it back to <0.75% ... interestingly, going down one square brings it down to ~1.6% ... this confirms something that I've noticed on my iPhone 14 Plus, in that the % isn't necessarily linear (i.e. it doesn't necessarily get worse, the lower the brightness gets) ... I'll have more details on the 14 Plus a bit later.

It's the Christmas period, so you have until Jan to return to the Apple Store, so it might be worth a test, if you would like to go for the Pro ... I got it through work, otherwise, I'd be quite happy with the M2 Air.

I'm on the precipice of pulling the trigger on the 14 Plus so I eagerly await your 14 Plus experience with baited breath

 

[john g.]

Finally got an opportunity to head into a store and test 3 of the 4 current iPhone 14 range for flicker ratio percentage.

Sorry it took a while @MICHAELSD

Here's what I've found:

	100%	75%	50%	25%	RWP 25%	RWP50%	RWP 75%	RWP 90%
iPhone 14	5.27%	9.55%	9.30%	10.5%	5.25%	5.07%	5.67%	7.21%
iPhone 14 Plus	5.08%	9.86%	9.90%	10.5%	4.93%	4.85%	5.39%	6.95%
iPhone 14 Pro Max	11.9%	13.5%	16.1%	18.2%	12.4%	13.3%	14.7%	17.0%

Note 1: I didn't get a chance to test the iPhone 14 Pro, however, based on last year's Pro range results, I expect it to be very similar to the iPhone 14 Pro Max.

Note 2: On the iPhone 14 Pro Max, I tested turning off ProMotion; it had no significant impact on the flicker ratio percentage.

Note 3: I've done some quick testing with turning off True Tone and/or Night Shift ... preliminary results indicate that turning them off increases the flicker ratio percentage, albeit by only a short amount.

Note 4: I've decided to get myself the iPhone 14 Plus to test out as my personal phone; I've only just set it up yesterday, and will report back over the next week.

Thanks for doing that!
Stupid question here, the lower the percentage number, the better?
Also with RWP percentage figures what display brightness is that at?
If I’m reading your chart right, it seems like the pro is a worse offender for PWM especially with fluctuation, than the 14 and 14+?
Forgive my questions, I have a head cold and feel particularly dense