Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[DJTaurus]

@MICHAELSD why se3 and not 11 ?

 

[pwm away]

the lower the percentage number, the better?

Yep! LED phones, and all the previous iPhones, usually get to ~0.75%.

Also with RWP percentage figures what display brightness is that at?

I kept brightness ato 100%, with auto brightness off.

If I’m reading your chart right, it seems like the pro is a worse offender for PWM especially with fluctuation, than the 14 and 14+?

Yep, that's what it looks like ... the main screen differences seem to be ProMotion and peak/max brightness capabilities.

 

[techtechtech]

Yes that’s what I’m hoping for. If anyone is interested, my settings for the 11 Pro were as follows:

Reduce white point: On, 70%
Reduce motion: On
Increase Contrast: On
Require attention for FaceID: Off
Attention aware features: Off

Increase contrast seemed to help me a lot on the 11 Pro so I’d recommend trying that before returning. That’s in Settings > Accessibility > Display & Text Size > Increase Contrast.

I am experimenting with these settings at the moment, wondering if anyone else tried these for 11 Pro and how they got on, thanks to @timeconsumer for posting, appreciated.

 

[pwm away]

As mentioned before, I got myself a 14 Plus to try; I set it up a few days ago; it was the evening and inside the house, so the lighting situation was accordingly.
I spent a good hour/hour and a half (probably) doing the initial set up, updates, and some configuration changes ... I didn't have any significant issues during that time (by that, I mean that I didn't feel any different to how I felt before).

Since then, I haven't yet used it as my main phone, but I've played around with the display settings, and have done additional measurements.

Here are a few things I've found so far:

• Both Night Shift and True Tone reduce the flicker % (although only in the range of ~0.2%)
• In the evening, with Night Shift, True Tone seems a bit annoying; during the day, I don't notice it much
• The display is bright!
• The flicker % is best in the range of 100 - 80
• The flicker % is OK/average in the range of 80 - 30
• You don't want to reduce brightness below 25%
• Reduce White Point also reduces the flicker %, depending on the value (again, we're talking a reduction of about ~0.2%)
• Reduce White Point is fine up to ~70%; it then increases the flicker % slowly
• Dark mode is a mixed bag; it sometimes decrease the %, sometimes increases it, depending on where on the screen you measure
  • I assume this perhaps has to do with the contrast between the OLEDs being off (black) and on (any other colour) across the screen

I've now set the brightness to 91%, with RWP at 62%, and testing this during the day ... these values may seem odd, but I've measured the best flicker % at those ... during the day, this keeps the display bright enough for me, without blasting into my eyes.

In the evenings, I'm trialling reducing the brightness to 71%. I'll play around with this, and might see if Dark Mode in the evenings feels good.

I've set up some Shortcut automations for the above (except for RWP, which it seems you can only turn on/off, rather than set to a specific value) ... so at sunrise, it sets it to 91%; at sunset, it sets it to 71%.

So far, the above certainly makes the screen seem more comfortable (I think OLED screens are just too bright in general); I'll see how I go as I use this phone more as my main phone.

 

[MICHAELSD]

As mentioned before, I got myself a 14 Plus to try; I set it up a few days ago; it was the evening and inside the house, so the lighting situation was accordingly.
I spent a good hour/hour and a half (probably) doing the initial set up, updates, and some configuration changes ... I didn't have any significant issues during that time (by that, I mean that I didn't feel any different to how I felt before).

Since then, I haven't yet used it as my main phone, but I've played around with the display settings, and have done additional measurements.

Here are a few things I've found so far:

• Both Night Shift and True Tone reduce the flicker % (although only in the range of ~0.2%)
• In the evening, with Night Shift, True Tone seems a bit annoying; during the day, I don't notice it much
• The display is bright!
• The flicker % is best in the range of 100 - 80
• The flicker % is OK/average in the range of 80 - 30
• You don't want to reduce brightness below 25%
• Reduce White Point also reduces the flicker %, depending on the value (again, we're talking a reduction of about ~0.2%)
• Reduce White Point is fine up to ~70%; it then increases the flicker % slowly
• Dark mode is a mixed bag; it sometimes decrease the %, sometimes increases it, depending on where on the screen you measure
  • I assume this perhaps has to do with the contrast between the OLEDs being off (black) and on (any other colour) across the screen

I've now set the brightness to 91%, with RWP at 62%, and testing this during the day ... these values may seem odd, but I've measured the best flicker % at those ... during the day, this keeps the display bright enough for me, without blasting into my eyes.

In the evenings, I'm trialling reducing the brightness to 71%. I'll play around with this, and might see if Dark Mode in the evenings feels good.

I've set up some Shortcut automations for the above (except for RWP, which it seems you can only turn on/off, rather than set to a specific value) ... so at sunrise, it sets it to 91%; at sunset, it sets it to 71%.

So far, the above certainly makes the screen seem more comfortable (I think OLED screens are just too bright in general); I'll see how I go as I use this phone more as my main phone.

I greatly value your scientific approach to all of this. I would like to do the same, but I know that I would drive myself truly mad.

The fact of the matter is that even knowing the flicker coefficient is <.75% above ~ 30% brightness on the 14" MacBook Pro doesn't prevent me from getting headaches, and neither did using every possible combination of brightness shortcuts and RWP on a few generations of OLED iPhones.

The data nonetheless helps and I do believe the lower flicker coefficients generally lead to a more manageable experience.

 

[MICHAELSD]

@MICHAELSD why se3 and not 11 ?

Newer chip with 5G, more vibrant display, improved build with Apple's latest glass/aluminum, and I prefer the form factor for an iPhone. I'm well beyond the 11 at this point.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I did have a M1 MacBook Air prior to the Pro, and that had a similar % at <0.75%, but it had it even below 30%, all the way down to 0% (or whatever the lowest setting represents).

I've just reconfirmed it ... I'm sitting at home, limited light, and the Pro's auto brightness has set it to 5 squares ... I'm measuring ~5.5%.

Going up just one square brings it back to <0.75% ... interestingly, going down one square brings it down to ~1.6% ... this confirms something that I've noticed on my iPhone 14 Plus, in that the % isn't necessarily linear (i.e. it doesn't necessarily get worse, the lower the brightness gets) ... I'll have more details on the 14 Plus a bit later.

It's the Christmas period, so you have until Jan to return to the Apple Store, so it might be worth a test, if you would like to go for the Pro ... I got it through work, otherwise, I'd be quite happy with the M2 Air.

My frustration with auto-brightness on the Pro is that enabling it doesn't take immediate effect like on iPhone, and it's trained quickly to match the brightness level I use in certain lighting conditions--as it's designed to do. But unfortunately there's really no level where it doesn't cause me eye strain, and adjusting to six clicks or more still leads to PWM headaches.

 

[DJTaurus]

As mentioned before, I got myself a 14 Plus to try; I set it up a few days ago; it was the evening and inside the house, so the lighting situation was accordingly.
I spent a good hour/hour and a half (probably) doing the initial set up, updates, and some configuration changes ... I didn't have any significant issues during that time (by that, I mean that I didn't feel any different to how I felt before).

Since then, I haven't yet used it as my main phone, but I've played around with the display settings, and have done additional measurements.

Here are a few things I've found so far:

• Both Night Shift and True Tone reduce the flicker % (although only in the range of ~0.2%)
• In the evening, with Night Shift, True Tone seems a bit annoying; during the day, I don't notice it much
• The display is bright!
• The flicker % is best in the range of 100 - 80
• The flicker % is OK/average in the range of 80 - 30
• You don't want to reduce brightness below 25%
• Reduce White Point also reduces the flicker %, depending on the value (again, we're talking a reduction of about ~0.2%)
• Reduce White Point is fine up to ~70%; it then increases the flicker % slowly
• Dark mode is a mixed bag; it sometimes decrease the %, sometimes increases it, depending on where on the screen you measure
  • I assume this perhaps has to do with the contrast between the OLEDs being off (black) and on (any other colour) across the screen

I've now set the brightness to 91%, with RWP at 62%, and testing this during the day ... these values may seem odd, but I've measured the best flicker % at those ... during the day, this keeps the display bright enough for me, without blasting into my eyes.

In the evenings, I'm trialling reducing the brightness to 71%. I'll play around with this, and might see if Dark Mode in the evenings feels good.

I've set up some Shortcut automations for the above (except for RWP, which it seems you can only turn on/off, rather than set to a specific value) ... so at sunrise, it sets it to 91%; at sunset, it sets it to 71%.

So far, the above certainly makes the screen seem more comfortable (I think OLED screens are just too bright in general); I'll see how I go as I use this phone more as my main phone.

Can you check if the color filter option does anything ?

 

[DJTaurus]

Newer chip with 5G, more vibrant display, improved build with Apple's latest glass/aluminum, and I prefer the form factor for an iPhone. I'm well beyond the 11 at this point.

Slow connectivity on 4G/WiFi is my main issue with iPhone 11 right now.

Text is rendered fine on se but the screen is small for browsing on safari.

 

[cgolca]

This mighy sound crazy i was fine with iphone 11 but recently maybe update ips 16 been having weird sensation and slight headache

Iphone 8 still ok

Nope same here but with the iPhone SE 2020. After updating to iOS 16 I started getting a headache and sensations similar to PWM. I think they might’ve added temporal dithering. After restoring to iOS 15 the problems are gone. So Apple has definitely tweaked something in iOS 16.

 

[pwm away]

Can you check if the color filter option does anything ?

It doesn't change anything.

 

[techtechtech]

Nope same here but with the iPhone SE 2020. After updating to iOS 16 I started getting a headache and sensations similar to PWM. I think they might’ve added temporal dithering. After restoring to iOS 15 the problems are gone. So Apple has definitely tweaked something in iOS 16.

This is just total madness if they have changed something, it is also more confirmation that some kind of solution or option to disable this 'feature' is only a click away! Why will they simply not give us an option in the settings, it's easy, call it whatever they like, something fancy of course. But essentially it 'reduces colour accuracy and may reduce the life of your screen' - disclaimer! but saves your eyes and/or nervous system from imminent trauma

I couldn't care less about colour accuracy if the alternative is a phone that can actually be used, similarly I suspect most phones will be end of life before screen burn becomes an issue. We have multiple options in display settings, most of which probably never get used, so why not give us the 'save your eyes' option, or 'Apple Eye Care'. Surely it is a selling point, no, Apple caring about their customers health?

 

[DJTaurus]

Nope same here but with the iPhone SE 2020. After updating to iOS 16 I started getting a headache and sensations similar to PWM. I think they might’ve added temporal dithering. After restoring to iOS 15 the problems are gone. So Apple has definitely tweaked something in iOS 16.

I confirm that too. Since iOS 16 my 11 is not the same. At times specially inside home i feel like i am loosing Center of my gravity. A weird feeling.

 

[GlenK]

No change for me with my 11. Not giving me any issues after 16.

 

[PowerPCFan]

As mentioned before, I got myself a 14 Plus to try; I set it up a few days ago; it was the evening and inside the house, so the lighting situation was accordingly.
I spent a good hour/hour and a half (probably) doing the initial set up, updates, and some configuration changes ... I didn't have any significant issues during that time (by that, I mean that I didn't feel any different to how I felt before).

Since then, I haven't yet used it as my main phone, but I've played around with the display settings, and have done additional measurements.

Here are a few things I've found so far:

• Both Night Shift and True Tone reduce the flicker % (although only in the range of ~0.2%)
• In the evening, with Night Shift, True Tone seems a bit annoying; during the day, I don't notice it much
• The display is bright!
• The flicker % is best in the range of 100 - 80
• The flicker % is OK/average in the range of 80 - 30
• You don't want to reduce brightness below 25%
• Reduce White Point also reduces the flicker %, depending on the value (again, we're talking a reduction of about ~0.2%)
• Reduce White Point is fine up to ~70%; it then increases the flicker % slowly
• Dark mode is a mixed bag; it sometimes decrease the %, sometimes increases it, depending on where on the screen you measure
  • I assume this perhaps has to do with the contrast between the OLEDs being off (black) and on (any other colour) across the screen

I've now set the brightness to 91%, with RWP at 62%, and testing this during the day ... these values may seem odd, but I've measured the best flicker % at those ... during the day, this keeps the display bright enough for me, without blasting into my eyes.

In the evenings, I'm trialling reducing the brightness to 71%. I'll play around with this, and might see if Dark Mode in the evenings feels good.

I've set up some Shortcut automations for the above (except for RWP, which it seems you can only turn on/off, rather than set to a specific value) ... so at sunrise, it sets it to 91%; at sunset, it sets it to 71%.

So far, the above certainly makes the screen seem more comfortable (I think OLED screens are just too bright in general); I'll see how I go as I use this phone more as my main phone.

Wow, you use 91% brightness?!?!

I use lowest setting in the morning, and half brightness during the day. On my mac I keep it around 12% brightness, even in the middle of the day.

Sometimes I wish the display got even darker, like when I wake up and check MacRumors for interesting news, the display is too bright even on the darkest setting.

 

[asus389]

I am experimenting with these settings at the moment, wondering if anyone else tried these for 11 Pro and how they got on, thanks to @timeconsumer for posting, appreciated.

I was able to use the 11 Pro Max for several hours at a time with True Tone off, dark mode on, brightness 100% (auto brightness off), Face ID and attention aware off. The phone was running iOS 13. I haven't had as much success with other OLED iPhones with these settings. It's unclear why.

 

[now i see it]

so why not give us the 'save your eyes' option, or 'Apple Eye Care'. Surely it is a selling point,

Because they will never ever ever acknowledge there’s a problem with their displays

 

[john g.]

As mentioned before, I got myself a 14 Plus to try; I set it up a few days ago; it was the evening and inside the house, so the lighting situation was accordingly.
I spent a good hour/hour and a half (probably) doing the initial set up, updates, and some configuration changes ... I didn't have any significant issues during that time (by that, I mean that I didn't feel any different to how I felt before).

Since then, I haven't yet used it as my main phone, but I've played around with the display settings, and have done additional measurements.

Here are a few things I've found so far:

• Both Night Shift and True Tone reduce the flicker % (although only in the range of ~0.2%)
• In the evening, with Night Shift, True Tone seems a bit annoying; during the day, I don't notice it much
• The display is bright!
• The flicker % is best in the range of 100 - 80
• The flicker % is OK/average in the range of 80 - 30
• You don't want to reduce brightness below 25%
• Reduce White Point also reduces the flicker %, depending on the value (again, we're talking a reduction of about ~0.2%)
• Reduce White Point is fine up to ~70%; it then increases the flicker % slowly
• Dark mode is a mixed bag; it sometimes decrease the %, sometimes increases it, depending on where on the screen you measure
  • I assume this perhaps has to do with the contrast between the OLEDs being off (black) and on (any other colour) across the screen

I've now set the brightness to 91%, with RWP at 62%, and testing this during the day ... these values may seem odd, but I've measured the best flicker % at those ... during the day, this keeps the display bright enough for me, without blasting into my eyes.

In the evenings, I'm trialling reducing the brightness to 71%. I'll play around with this, and might see if Dark Mode in the evenings feels good.

I've set up some Shortcut automations for the above (except for RWP, which it seems you can only turn on/off, rather than set to a specific value) ... so at sunrise, it sets it to 91%; at sunset, it sets it to 71%.

So far, the above certainly makes the screen seem more comfortable (I think OLED screens are just too bright in general); I'll see how I go as I use this phone more as my main phone.

Where and how do you get a numerical reading for the brightness for 91%? On my phone it just shows a slider but there’s no numerical reading unlike the reduce white point. Am I missing something?

 

[techtechtech]

I was able to use the 11 Pro Max for several hours at a time with True Tone off, dark mode on, brightness 100% (auto brightness off), Face ID and attention aware off. The phone was running iOS 13. I haven't had as much success with other OLED iPhones with these settings. It's unclear why.

Thanks for that, I've been on similar settings except just above 50% brightness, experimenting with Face ID on and off.

 

[techtechtech]

Because they will never ever ever acknowledge there’s a problem with their displays

I get that, companies like Apple and many others simply will not hold their hands up and do the right thing. So very sad for us paying customers, imagine all the phones we could have purchased if PWM did not exist. Hard to see the bigger picture with all that money raining down before their eyes

Shall most likely pickup a standard 11 without OLED just for backup, so Apple will win either way, I have logged feedback to them for what it is worth. I suggest people keep on giving feedback, keep emailing Tim Cook, none of this can hurt at all. We might be the minority, but if that phone keeps ringing then somebody will answer it soon enough. More we annoy them, the more chance there is of a solution being presented.

 

[DJTaurus]

Is there anyone here who tested both 14s and pros AND had better experience with normal 14s ?

 

[john g.]

Is there anyone here who tested both 14s and pros AND had better experience with normal 14s ?

I've had better luck with the regular 14 and 14+ that I have the pro. Though I wish I could say that the 14s were completely symptom-free and that the screen was easy to look at.

 

[Spuck]

So I recently got a Pixel 7. Great Phone, but I keep experiencing eye strain after just a minute of using it. Will I be okay with the iPhone Se3 if I invest in that?

 

[now i see it]

Maybe

 

[pwm away]

Wow, you use 91% brightness?!?!

I'm still testing different brightness levels; 91% was measured to have the lowest flicker % of all brightness levels.

One thing to note, however, is that I use it with RWP at 62% ... during daytime, with plenty of light outside and inside, this isn't feeling too intense.