Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

@kargurin - for comparison.

In theory the iPhone 15 should be the best, and offer the most solid Reduce White Point workaround.

However, 15 minutes with iPhone 14 was enough for me to realize it’s still not headache-free even at 100% brightness. I don’t think iPhone 15/iPhone 15 Plus felt great in a store either upon first impression, which is when they should be the most symptom-free.

This isn’t scientific but iPhone 15 Pro feels better above 25% brightness. It’s just too bright, and Reduce White Point is mostly useless for this purpose on the Pro devices. Nonetheless I’m still testing and disabled the auto-brightness.

 

[MICHAELSD]

@kargurin - for comparison.

iPhone 15 Plus - better, worse, or the same? Those modulations look pretty reassuring after trying the Pro model and feeling like it’s an improvement over last generation. I wasn’t planning on trying the standard iPhone 15/iPhone 15 Plus, but that is significantly better on paper—and my experience with iPhone 15 Pro being better than the measurements would imply has me more optimistic.

Edit: I double-checked @the_top_g’s results from Reddit, and iPhone 15 is probably a tad better than iPhone 15 Plus since the modulations are slightly lower on average.

 

[5105973]

Ok so I can use the phone for reading. But God help me trying to use my brain to compose an email while using the display. Since this is my computer I can’t keep it. I’m getting nasty headache.

So I don’t know what to try next. 15 Max or regular 15. 15 Pro is out of the question since I don’t want to spend the money and get such little battery life.

I guess the Plus sized 15 has a kickazz battery life. I just think the regular 15 is so cute. lol.

Which one do you all think is better for pwm? I don’t think I’ll get to see them at the Apple Store unfortunately.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Ok so I can use the phone for reading. But God help me trying to use my brain to compose an email while using the display. Since this is my computer I can’t keep it. I’m getting nasty headache.

So I don’t know what to try next. 15 Max or regular 15. 15 Pro is out of the question since I don’t want to spend the money and get such little battery life.

I guess the Plus sized 15 has a kickazz battery life. I just think the regular 15 is so cute. lol.

Which one do you all think is better for pwm? I don’t think I’ll get to see them at the Apple Store unfortunately.

Are you referencing the iPhone 15 Plus, Nan?

The measurements certainly show iPhone 15 as being the best as far as PWM, but anecdotal experiences are favoring iPhone 15 Pro/iPhone 15 Pro Max. FWIW I can still slightly see the flickering at times just how it appears in slo-mo videos. Persistent headaches are improved to a noticeable extent, and almost nonexistent. Then again I am getting some light tension headaches after use, which by comparison are much better than what I experienced on even iPhone 13/iPhone 13 Pro.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Btw - the year that I can post that an iPhone is fine to use and don’t feel the need to constantly be checking/posting in this thread will be the year that this is fixed.

 

[5105973]

Are you referencing the iPhone 15 Plus, Nan?

The measurements certainly show iPhone 15 as being the best as far as PWM, but anecdotal experiences are favoring iPhone 15 Pro/iPhone 15 Pro Max. FWIW I can still slightly see the flickering at times just how it appears in slo-mo videos. Persistent headaches are improved to a noticeable extent, and almost nonexistent. Then again I am getting some light tension headaches after use, which by comparison are much better than what I experienced on even iPhone 13/iPhone 13 Pro.

Yeah sorry I meant the Plus. I just finished composing an email and I am dizzy and have a headache and I went back the last 3 pages of this thread trying to make myself understand what was being said but I just can’t. Too🫨

My 12 Pro Max isn’t perfect either but usable in moderation. I woke up feeling great but one email makes me so sick. Not surprising. When I get migraines and seizures the part of my brain that handles language suffers dramatically. So using that part of my brain to compose an email is too much while sustaining whatever assault the pwm is hitting me with.

I really loved the camera on this phone so far. I’m mildly bummed about having to send it back. But I knew this was a strong possibility. I’m actually very pleased to get a definitive result so soon. It took me 6 or 7 months to figure out the 14 Pro Max and I weren’t compatible in the long term.

Thanks to all of you who are reporting in with information!

 

[5105973]

I forgot to mention I’m using this forum on dark mode. That helps

 

[kargurin]

@kargurin - for comparison.

Yes this tool is perhaps more accurate than the Opple. What are you measuring though? What do the numbers mean? Is it modulation?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yeah sorry I meant the Plus. I just finished composing an email and I am dizzy and have a headache and I went back the last 3 pages of this thread trying to make myself understand what was being said but I just can’t. Too🫨

My 12 Pro Max isn’t perfect either but usable in moderation. I woke up feeling great but one email makes me so sick. Not surprising. When I get migraines and seizures the part of my brain that handles language suffers dramatically. So using that part of my brain to compose an email is too much while sustaining whatever assault the pwm is hitting me with.

I really loved the camera on this phone so far. I’m mildly bummed about having to send it back. But I knew this was a strong possibility. I’m actually very pleased to get a definitive result so soon. It took me 6 or 7 months to figure out the 14 Pro Max and I weren’t compatible in the long term.

Thanks to all of you who are reporting in with information!

Thanks for sharing, and you’ve confirmed my suspicion that iPhone 15/iPhone 15 Plus still aren’t these unicorn DC dimming devices.

If there was a setting that made the flicker a little better I would say iPhone 15 Pro is a go. It’s better than ever, but it still checks every PWM sensitivity symptom.

Certainly try giving iPhone 15 Pro Max a shot if you’re still looking for a new iPhone. I think more people will be able to use these iPhones this year, which is great, but the more sensitive users such as ourselves know the drill that waiting for a PWM-free option or a major advancement is the best bet.

 

[5105973]

Thanks for sharing, and you’ve confirmed my suspicion that iPhone 15/iPhone 15 Plus still aren’t these unicorn DC dimming devices.

If there was a setting that made the flicker a little better I would say iPhone 15 Pro is a go. It’s better than ever, but it still checks every PWM sensitivity symptom.

Certainly try giving iPhone 15 Pro Max a shot if you’re still looking for a new iPhone. I think more people will be able to use these iPhones this year, which is great, but the more sensitive users such as ourselves know the drill that waiting for a PWM-free option or a major advancement is the best bet.

I’m sorry I was unclear. Forgive me I’m addled. I’m back posting on my 12 Pro Max. It was the 15 Pro Max that made me so dizzy and sick.

I’m now trying to choose between 15 Plus and regular 15. I won’t be able to get one in pink until mid October though. Which is fine. I’m not in any rush.

 

[Populus]

Ok so I can use the phone for reading. But God help me trying to use my brain to compose an email while using the display. Since this is my computer I can’t keep it. I’m getting nasty headache.

So I don’t know what to try next. 15 Max or regular 15. 15 Pro is out of the question since I don’t want to spend the money and get such little battery life.

I guess the Plus sized 15 has a kickazz battery life. I just think the regular 15 is so cute. lol.

Which one do you all think is better for pwm? I don’t think I’ll get to see them at the Apple Store unfortunately.

The regular 15 is cute, but I think the 15 Pro screen is much more comfortable.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I’m sorry I was unclear. Forgive me I’m addled. I’m back posting on my 12 Pro Max. It was the 15 Pro Max that made me so dizzy and sick.

I’m now trying to choose between 15 Plus and regular 15. I won’t be able to get one in pink until mid October though. Which is fine. I’m not in any rush.

Sorry to hear you've also had issue with the 15PM. I still have an ocular headache 3 days later despite popping Migraleve everyday. Once again I'm done trying to get an iPhone this year. These phones are just wrong.

 

[5105973]

Sorry to hear you've also had issue with the 15PM. I still have an ocular headache 3 days later despite popping Migraleve everyday. Once again I'm done trying to get an iPhone this year. These phones are just wrong.

Omg Jimmy I hope you’re better soon! Mine calmed down once I stopped looking at the display.

 

[Proteinaceous]

Has anyone decided to just use your phone sparingly for pictures and quick lookups or app usage, and otherwise just use an iPad for longer browsing/media consumption sessions? If so, has anyone picked up the iPad Mini 6 and had good luck with it?
I know it only has PWM below 10% brightness, but was curious how it has truly worked out for any of you- is it comfortable?

I have the iPad mini 6 and have had zero issues…and I use it at the lowest brightness setting (<10%) a lot. YMMV as they say, but if you have not had issues with iPad LCD displays before, you will probably be fine with the mini.

 

[du57in]

If you check through another smartphone camera with 1/8000 shutter speed and do not see the banding size increase, that means there is no change in duty cycle %.

Over at reddit I had a discussion with another member. I came to the conclusion that the way how the workaround dimming method we are familiar with is no longer as effective as before.

Its seems that display driver is attempting to override our workaround by measuring our actual nits brightness presented on screen and use modulation manipulation(in the vertical axis of PWM) to give us the brightness level we desire.

They would not touch our screen duty cycle screen ON time exposure (unless screen is dimmer than it supports then it’ll decrease it subtlely) though, since this will trigger the duty cycle percentage (horizontal axis of PWM) within the PWM

Based on your writing here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/PWM_Sensitive/comments/13s22br

Is there any logic to the idea of the 15 Pro being better for some users based on the waveform looking more smooth at higher brightness, vs the less modulation but more jagged waveform of the regular 15?

 

[now i see it]

I think its coming down to the same verdict we had last year and the year before that and the year before that ...etc

Only way to find out if these pocket strobe lights are going to nail you is buy one of them - and pray

 

[5105973]

I think its coming down to the same verdict we had last year and the year before that and the year before that ...etc

Only way to find out if these pocket strobe lights are going to nail you is buy one of them - and pray

I’m giving your comment the laugh emoji because I was amused how you expressed all of our frustration so on point. It really is the situation.

I do so hate waste but I have no other means to evaluate a phone. Looking at them in the store doesn’t really help. Even borrowing a family member’s phone for a few minutes doesn’t really tell me a whole lot. I’ll just be using the phone all happily and normally and then…GOTCHA! Which is what happened to me today.

But then with my 12 Pro Max, it’s not ideal but it’s doable. And I made it past 6 months on the 14 Pro Max. That had its ups and downs.

 

[jm31828]

I have the iPad mini 6 and have had zero issues…and I use it at the lowest brightness setting (<10%) a lot. YMMV as they say, but if you have not had issues with iPad LCD displays before, you will probably be fine with the mini.

Yeah, that's my issue- I actually tried other LCD iPads (the 10th generation, and Air 5th generation) and they made my eyes feel like they were burning/dry.... it was so strange, knowing these do not have PWM. It honestly was potentially worse than what I experience with some iPhone OLED panels, oddly enough.

 

[jm31828]

I’m giving your comment the laugh emoji because I was amused how you expressed all of our frustration so on point. It really is the situation.

I do so hate waste but I have no other means to evaluate a phone. Looking at them in the store doesn’t really help. Even borrowing a family member’s phone for a few minutes doesn’t really tell me a whole lot. I’ll just be using the phone all happily and normally and then…GOTCHA! Which is what happened to me today.

But then with my 12 Pro Max, it’s not ideal but it’s doable. And I made it past 6 months on the 14 Pro Max. That had its ups and downs.

Were you using your new one since last Friday and after several days finally had an issue? Or how long did that take?

 

[MICHAELSD]

I think its coming down to the same verdict we had last year and the year before that and the year before that ...etc

Only way to find out if these pocket strobe lights are going to nail you is buy one of them - and pray

It is a little better this year, but probably the same verdict.

Still better than expected, so I guess, progress?

 

[tonybarnaby]

Ordering my wife and kids brand new pros, while I'm using my ancient 8 Plus. I haven't been active on here in years, because the fact I can't use these phones is demoralizing. I even experienced strain from an 11 lcd, and the se3. I'm really hopeful for the OnePlus 12. What I have done the last few years is to use my 8+ for texting, and a second android phone with my free line. I grab a new Motorola phone every year or 2. Pure Android, plus insane battery life. And the best part, they're all $300 or less. F this company for not giving us any solutions to pwn.

 

[now i see it]

I actually tried other LCD iPads (the 10th generation, and Air 5th generation) and they made my eyes feel like they were burning/dry.... it was so strange, knowing these do not have PWM.

iPad screens are only 264ppi which isn't hi-res. That alone is enough to give some people eye strain. Then add in Apple's secret sauce and the outcome is anyone's guess

 

[MICHAELSD]

Ordering my wife and kids brand new pros, while I'm using my ancient 8 Plus. I haven't been active on here in years, because the fact I can't use these phones is demoralizing. I even experienced strain from an 11 lcd, and the se3. I'm really hopeful for the OnePlus 12. What I have done the last few years is to use my 8+ for texting, and a second android phone with my free line. I grab a new Motorola phone every year or 2. Pure Android, plus insane battery life. And the best part, they're all $300 or less. F this company for not giving us any solutions to pwn.

Motorola OLED? I’m intrigued by the prospect of a flicker reduction setting.

 

[MICHAELSD]

iPad screens are only 264ppi which isn't hi-res. That alone is enough to give some people eye strain. Then add in Apple's secret sauce and the outcome is anyone's guess

I will stand by the fact that all of my eye strain is caused by the flickering. Not the pixel density, not the extreme brightness, not the vibrant colors or the animations in iOS.

 

[jm31828]

iPad screens are only 264ppi which isn't hi-res. That alone is enough to give some people eye strain. Then add in Apple's secret sauce and the outcome is anyone's guess

Yeah.. I have issues with the iPhone SE3 as well. But in the past, I had no issues with the 6s, 7, and 8 Plus phones I had.... something really changed with Apple LCD's more recently- maybe it's temporal dithering, who knows.