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Are you experiencing this issue?


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So iPhones do have a warning...

Medical conditions.

If you have any medical condition or experience symptoms that you believe could be affected by iPhone or flashing lights (for example, seizures, blackouts, eyestrain, or headaches), consult with your physician prior to using iPhone.” Says Apple.


Well alrighty then. I’m going to try to get an appointment with a new neurologist recommended by a friend of a friend. I can’t guarantee I’ll be seen this year as most of the neurologists around here have massive wait times for non emergency appointments. But I do not want another dye contrast MRI. I have lost count of how many of those I’ve had since I was in my 30’s. That dye stays in the body somehow. Or some of the ingredients do.
 
I reset my iPhone 15 Pro last night after recognizing that I was definitely still being affected by the PWM, and there’s really no way around that.

However, I haven’t tested it during the daytime yet since we’ve been having rain the past few days. So, I did what any normal Apple enthusiast would do and set it up again—this time with no backup, which leads to the best overall experience and obviously frees up a lot of space but I digress.

My takeaway from the first time and all previous times is that Reduce White Point and low light filters don’t do much, by design they almost mimic the brightness controller now based on the nit output. So, like I do on every other Apple device I’ll leave auto-brightness on without making adjustments to it as it is a necessary function of the experience. Most of us wouldn’t try blasting our eyeballs with a bright display if it weren’t for the PWM.

My initial experience and some of the experiences here were slightly reassuring, although I can still see the flickering at times—even on the setup display and I definitely do get headaches during and after use.

However, it is slightly better this year. Not enough for me to even activate this and do a full day out of it, which is when it may become all the more noticeable that I could have been wrong and it’s not practical as a daily device for a PWM-sensitive user.

If PWM sensitivity continues then I will most likely be returning this later tonight.
 
I'm disappointed Apple has not seemed very interested in offering a phone for the percentage of their customers that have this issue. A LCD SE the size of the current mainline iPhone can not be that difficult to do. We keep reading about it but talk is cheap. Just make the thing and get it out there. I'm a share holder and have made lot of money on Apple but it still irritates the heck out of that this is still in limbo.
Yeah but they’re doing some thing with LCD that also messes with a subset of us. I have the iPhone 11 and the SE3. I went functionally blind from using them. Not an exaggeration unfortunately. I’m hoping to get an appointment with a new neurologist to find out why.
 
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I picked up a 15 (non-pro) and set it up last night, used it off and on for about an hour. Aside from the actual setup, I did some web browsing, Reddit browsing, and playing with some settings, testing the camera, etc.

I have to say that I didn't notice any real problems. I was having dry eyes over the last few days, and so I think the dry eye situation I was feeling just a bit when using the phone was unrelated. No real issues at all, and I did not wake up with a headache.

This very early, initial test seems positive.

It's so hard for me to tell because I am someone who has frequent (almost daily) headaches anyway- even when I purposely don't use my phone (my current phone is a 13 Mini), so it's been hard to differentiate between just regular headaches I might get anyway, and anything additional caused by the phone.

But last night was a night where I was not having any headaches, and nothing came on when using the phone- so I am hopeful!

There has been a ton of discussion here about PWM frequency, modulation percentage, etc. But I did the unscientific test last night, taking a slow-mo video of this phone in a dark room- and wow it's shocking how the thing strobes like crazy... same way that my 13 Mini looks in slow-mo. (and that was with brightness at 100% and RWP set to about 80%). The flicker did not look any different at other brightness levels.
The one thing I see different on this in slow mo is a thick black band that slowly moves up the screen- whereas when I record slow-mo video of my 13 Mini, I see the flicker- but don't see any band or lines.
Not sure what that means?

When I take the same slow-mo video of my wife's 14 Plus, interestingly I see no bands/bars, and see significantly less flicker- it's a subtle flicker vs the entire thing strobing like crazy as I see on my two phones.

I know everyone is different in their sensitivities, but it makes me wonder if my wife's 14 Plus is an overall healthier phone to be looking at for long periods of time, given that lack of visible heavy flicker in slow-mo as I see on these other two phones.

Anyway, I just wanted to share!
I'll continue testing over the next week or so (including taking it and my current phone out on a hike this weekend to test and compare the cameras) before deciding if I want to return it or not.
 
I picked up a 15 (non-pro) and set it up last night, used it off and on for about an hour. Aside from the actual setup, I did some web browsing, Reddit browsing, and playing with some settings, testing the camera, etc.

I have to say that I didn't notice any real problems. I was having dry eyes over the last few days, and so I think the dry eye situation I was feeling just a bit when using the phone was unrelated. No real issues at all, and I did not wake up with a headache.

This very early, initial test seems positive.

It's so hard for me to tell because I am someone who has frequent (almost daily) headaches anyway- even when I purposely don't use my phone (my current phone is a 13 Mini), so it's been hard to differentiate between just regular headaches I might get anyway, and anything additional caused by the phone.

But last night was a night where I was not having any headaches, and nothing came on when using the phone- so I am hopeful!

There has been a ton of discussion here about PWM frequency, modulation percentage, etc. But I did the unscientific test last night, taking a slow-mo video of this phone in a dark room- and wow it's shocking how the thing strobes like crazy... same way that my 13 Mini looks in slow-mo. (and that was with brightness at 100% and RWP set to about 80%). The flicker did not look any different at other brightness levels.
The one thing I see different on this in slow mo is a thick black band that slowly moves up the screen- whereas when I record slow-mo video of my 13 Mini, I see the flicker- but don't see any band or lines.
Not sure what that means?

When I take the same slow-mo video of my wife's 14 Plus, interestingly I see no bands/bars, and see significantly less flicker- it's a subtle flicker vs the entire thing strobing like crazy as I see on my two phones.

I know everyone is different in their sensitivities, but it makes me wonder if my wife's 14 Plus is an overall healthier phone to be looking at for long periods of time, given that lack of visible heavy flicker in slow-mo as I see on these other two phones.

Anyway, I just wanted to share!
I'll continue testing over the next week or so (including taking it and my current phone out on a hike this weekend to test and compare the cameras) before deciding if I want to return it or not.
I have an iPhone 15 on order. I think I can still cancel it. I was thinking about the Plus for the monster battery. But the reason I chose the regular 15 was because I already have one in the house and got to play with it a little bit. And it seemed fine.

I don’t know if the bands you’re seeing mean anything because I was always confused about whether or not that has more to do with how the device you’re viewing it on refreshes vs how the refresh hits your visual system. This stuff is way over my head unfortunately
 
I have an iPhone 15 on order. I think I can still cancel it. I was thinking about the Plus for the monster battery. But the reason I chose the regular 15 was because I already have one in the house and got to play with it a little bit. And it seemed fine.

I don’t know if the bands you’re seeing mean anything because I was always confused about whether or not that has more to do with how the device you’re viewing it on refreshes vs how the refresh hits your visual system. This stuff is way over my head unfortunately
I could tell that iPhone 15 Plus seemed better than iPhone 15 in a retail store, and this may come down to panel variance but the display was also better/more vibrant.

Still, I don’t think that it’s any better in terms of PWM since I could feel sensitivity almost immediately.
 
Dear people,
My iPhone 12 Pro is sold. The iPhone 15 Pro Max remains.
I still can't believe I can actually use it. I'm just thrilled that it works.
I finally have a current iPhone again and I don't care about the next few years.
I am aware that it may take years before I can tolerate a new iPhone, just like it did after the iPhone 12 Pro.
On the subject of OLED TV devices, I don't tolerate them at all. Already had several models here.
On the other hand, I tolerate a Samsung TV with PWM excellently, crazy world, or crazy eyes.
We are all so different and everyone seems to react differently. That's incredible.

@orbitalpunk
This may well mean that your eyes are getting used to the display.
Be happy that you no longer have any symptoms. This is not a given.
Enjoy the iPhone 15 Pro, just like I do now. Apple has changed something.
I'm hearing more and more positive things around here too, and things seem to be looking up for us PWM sufferers.
I’m so happy for you! lol it’s like watching Santa and Rudolph get someone off of the Island of Misfit Toys! Fly away and be free! 😁🥳
 
I have an iPhone 15 on order. I think I can still cancel it. I was thinking about the Plus for the monster battery. But the reason I chose the regular 15 was because I already have one in the house and got to play with it a little bit. And it seemed fine.

I don’t know if the bands you’re seeing mean anything because I was always confused about whether or not that has more to do with how the device you’re viewing it on refreshes vs how the refresh hits your visual system. This stuff is way over my head unfortunately
Yeah, the band thing is odd- with all the phones I've tested over the years, this is the first time I've seen that band in my own slow-mo testing.

Please share your experience if you do stick with your 15 order and get to test it out!
 
I could tell that iPhone 15 Plus seemed better than iPhone 15 in a retail store, and this may come down to panel variance but the display was also better/more vibrant.

Still, I don’t think that it’s any better in terms of PWM since I could feel sensitivity almost immediately.
I canceled my Pink regular 15 Order. When I go to see if I can return my 15 Pro Max at the store I’ll see the Pink and Pink Plus in person.
 
Yeah, the band thing is odd- with all the phones I've tested over the years, this is the first time I've seen that band in my own slow-mo testing.

Please share your experience if you do stick with your 15 order and get to test it out!
I canceled it for now. I’m really nervous. I’m going to try and see them all in person.

I also worry I’ll need the monster battery. I live and drive and vacation in low signal areas and my battery gets eaten alive. I sometimes turn off cellular and just use WiFi but often I forget.

I need to do more thinking on this than I did when I made my order.
 
Ive been using my 15 Pro for 4 days now and ive noticed that i don't have the symptoms i had in the first two days. Day 1 i had some tension in the front of my forehead. day 2 i had eye fatigue after a 2 hour face time call. since then I haven't felt anything and I face time each day for about 2 hours on it. what does it mean when symptoms go away? Did my eyes just need to get used to the new type of display and I shouldn't worry about it now as long as I dont sense any symptoms or is it a wolfs in sheep's clothing kinda thing? for reference, ive been using an 11 since its release so all LCD for the past several years. I did try the 12 Pro for like 5 minutes when it frist came out and said nope. So Ive never tried to use a OLED display for this long before.
That happened with me and a 12 mini. If I hadn’t gotten the 13 Pro that made me super sick I could still be using the 12 mini. But sometimes one bad phone will hypersensitize me to phones I could previously use. It also rendered me unable to go back to my Pixel 6 Pro which I traded for my Pixel 7a.
 
I canceled my Pink regular 15 Order. When I go to see if I can return my 15 Pro Max at the store I’ll see the Pink and Pink Plus in person.
I might take a look at the 15 Plus too and only entertain the thought of trying one if my in-store experience is completely fine. So it’s unlikely.

Lest we forget there’s more to life than these smartphones, even if they become more capable every year.

There isn’t much I can realistically do on an iPhone 15 Pro that I can’t do on the latest iPhone SE, although the experience for watching movies or playing games is dramatically better.

Besides that and the wonderful titanium/frosted glass build quality that gets covered in a case regardless, what are we really missing? Yes, it’s a much nicer experience overall but all basic functionality is still there and for me at least the ‘Liquid Retina’ display continues to cause zero issues.
 
Yea, that'll be bad news for me as I need a computer now and planning on MBA. Wanted to secure the iPhone first then heavily invest in more gear - now the iPhone is a bust I feel I should stay with a Windows for home setup and go Android for phone.
Have you looked into the cost to replace an OLED screen with LCD on a new iPhone? It's another expense, but considering the fact a flagship iPhone lasts 5 years, it's not *that* bad. I don't mind Android at all, or I would probably buy a 15 pro max and see if someone can fit an LCD screen. And if not the pro max, whatever size they could rig to fit an aftermarket LCD. You get no headaches + 5 years of use. No warranty from Apple, so this is assuming nothing goes wrong.
 
I might take a look at the 15 Plus too and only entertain the thought of trying one if my in-store experience is completely fine. So it’s unlikely.

Lest we forget there’s more to life than these smartphones, even if they become more capable every year.

There isn’t much I can realistically do on an iPhone 15 Pro that I can’t do on the latest iPhone SE, although the experience for watching movies or playing games is dramatically better.

Besides that and the wonderful titanium/frosted glass build quality that gets covered in a case regardless, what are we really missing? Yes, it’s a much nicer experience overall but all basic functionality is still there and for me at least the ‘Liquid Retina’ display continues to cause zero issues.
iPhone SE is way too small, let's be honest. I know you're a die hard Apple guy, and I respect that a lot. But it's time to come to the dark side, unless you want to use a sub 5" phone for the next few years. I'm going to get the OnePlus 12 in February (or whenever it launches), and I will @ you and @jimmy_uk. I'm not even going to waste my time (or pay the restocking fee) if these new pros don't work for the regulars in this thread.

A big F U to Apple for not at least trying to institute some sort of DC dimming or any other potential fix. The thing that sucks is, it will never affect their bottom line in a meaningful way, so the only way anything will change is it it's the cheapest route and we just so happen to wind up with flagship phones we can use. The only thing I'll miss is my Apple watch. Android phones are just as good, and actually better in many ways.

I'm not gonna stick around and beat a dead horse. Consider this another year and another no-go for myself and a bunch of y'all in here. I'll be back in February, hopefully with some good news and bring a few of you to OnePlus 😎
 
I canceled my Pink regular 15 Order. When I go to see if I can return my 15 Pro Max at the store I’ll see the Pink and Pink Plus in person.
Good idea!
I went in a couple of times since launch just to look at the colors before buying one, and the online pictures/videos don't always do them justice.
I picked up the blue, which is really nice- but I was actually really surprised by how nice the green/mint looks. It's so subtle. I may have bought that one, but it was sold out at my local store.
 
Have you looked into the cost to replace an OLED screen with LCD on a new iPhone? It's another expense, but considering the fact a flagship iPhone lasts 5 years, it's not *that* bad. I don't mind Android at all, or I would probably buy a 15 pro max and see if someone can fit an LCD screen. And if not the pro max, whatever size they could rig to fit an aftermarket LCD. You get no headaches + 5 years of use. No warranty from Apple, so this is assuming nothing goes wrong.
It's an idea but I'm not looking to mod a phone. No warranty and possible heat issues + I need a reliable device as I run my daily life off it.

Fingers crossed for the Oneplus 12. Here's to catching up in Feb.
 
iPhone SE is way too small, let's be honest. I know you're a die hard Apple guy, and I respect that a lot. But it's time to come to the dark side, unless you want to use a sub 5" phone for the next few years. I'm going to get the OnePlus 12 in February (or whenever it launches), and I will @ you and @jimmy_uk. I'm not even going to waste my time (or pay the restocking fee) if these new pros don't work for the regulars in this thread.

A big F U to Apple for not at least trying to institute some sort of DC dimming or any other potential fix. The thing that sucks is, it will never affect their bottom line in a meaningful way, so the only way anything will change is it it's the cheapest route and we just so happen to wind up with flagship phones we can use. The only thing I'll miss is my Apple watch. Android phones are just as good, and actually better in many ways.

I'm not gonna stick around and beat a dead horse. Consider this another year and another no-go for myself and a bunch of y'all in here. I'll be back in February, hopefully with some good news and bring a few of you to OnePlus 😎
I agree with all your comments except... "iPhone SE is way too small, let's be honest."
 
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Filming an iPhone OLED screen in slow motion will always be inconclusive. The slo-mo shutter shoots at 240 fps and what you see is the synchronization of the filming camera shutter and the flickering of the screen.
If the screen PWM flickers just 1Hz, slower, it’ll look different in the video.
If the PWM is in perfect sync with the shutter — you won’t see anything or almost just a black screen.

All a slow-mo video reveals is that the screen flickers
 
Well alrighty then. I’m going to try to get an appointment with a new neurologist recommended by a friend of a friend. I can’t guarantee I’ll be seen this year as most of the neurologists around here have massive wait times for non emergency appointments. But I do not want another dye contrast MRI. I have lost count of how many of those I’ve had since I was in my 30’s. That dye stays in the body somehow. Or some of the ingredients do.
Have any of your neurologists/doctors had any ideas about all this? My PCP suggested trying a neuro-ophthalmologist so I'll probably start there. But hard to say if that's who I need to see.
 
Filming an iPhone OLED screen in slow motion will always be inconclusive. The slo-mo shutter shoots at 240 fps and what you see is the synchronization of the filming camera shutter and the flickering of the screen.
If the screen PWM flickers just 1Hz, slower, it’ll look different in the video.
If the PWM is in perfect sync with the shutter — you won’t see anything or almost just a black screen.

All a slow-mo video reveals is that the screen flickers
Totally understood.
It's interesting though how some flicker looks BAD- like a full-on strobe light, and then other phones- like my wife's 14 Plus- looks very gentle and subtle.
Could that just be coincidence as well in regards to how it syncs up with the slow-mo recording on the camera?

And what about that thick band I see that slowly moves up the screen, that I don't see on other phones. Is that again just a random artifact that would be on any phone depending on how the recording syncs up with the flicker?

Sorry if these are dumb questions, curiosity has gotten me on this.

Thanks!
 
Yes what you see on the slow motion video is the timing of the camera shutter vs the flashing pixels. A slow moving band is just a timing issue of the camera shutter. It doesn’t signify anything
 
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Rumour update on the next generation SE: iPhone SE 4 Details

Mentions OLED again. Wouldn’t be surprising, if they indeed move to using the 14 as a basis, rather than the 11.

No details on expected date, and the overall project seems like it’s not entirely green lit yet.
 
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