Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[DJTaurus]

There are many variables, as I’m sure you know, but hopefully you were not using HDR. The brightness alone on those TVs can give anyone headaches. I am sorry you had that experience.

Peak Brightness on OLEDs is low compared to LCDs. They have improved the last 2 years. I read that after CX, Oled TVs improved and lots of users like us used them without issues. Nevertheless i never returned to OLEDs….. i am a gamer and i miles prefer maximin brightness of LCDs.

12 pro just arrived. I am setting it right now and i will report back.

 

[MICHAELSD]

The fault isn’t with us, but it isn’t necessarily with the iPhone either.

I visited a Verizon store in the pursuit of trying a Razr+ in a store before unboxing one, which they didn’t have, and I can’t imagine using a Galaxy smartphone either: these make me feel uneasy and seem to cause notably more PWM sensitivity than an iPhone even in a store setting. It looked like the only acceptable option may have been iPhone SE, which is built well but looks increasingly outdated when placed directly next to modern smartphones.

It’s a faulty premise to state that we’re automatically epileptic or that we have some sort of neurological disorder, but I don’t think that’s the point of a health warning or what’s being implied. It’s just important to highlight that we are sensitive to PWM on these displays, and most of us aren’t necessarily sensitive to PWM in lighting or other types of displays. How many people on here can say that they get headaches from a PWM-flickering transit schedule?

OLED smartphone panels are unfortunately a flawed technology, and nobody is blaming Apple since I do believe at this point that they’re doing the best they can to keep producing these on the scale and other standards they need to meet.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I’ve been wanting to pen a thank-you note to Apple.

They have been understanding, allowing us to try the latest iPhone or even multiple iPhones each year and return them without hassle within a reasonable timeframe if they do inevitably cause headaches.

I do believe that they’ve been more cognizant of PWM, even if there’s been no fix or real Accessibility setting.

Apple has been creating the best iPhones ever, by far, otherwise.

We take for granted how amazing it is that a device this thin and light is so powerful.

The display looks beyond realistic with HDR content to the point that zooming into the rounded corners makes for an immersive experience that quite dramatically outdoes the average home theater and even dedicated theaters in terms of clarity.

I could go on about the astonishing performance of these tiny speakers, which create a convincing soundstage and put out increasingly deeper amounts of bass. Or the gorgeous titanium build. Or the promise of what’s to come. It’s not just the cameras that define the iPhone experience as some users have stated, as that’s only a tiny part of it.

But we’ll be waiting for them to solve PWM once and for all to fully be able to appreciate these iPhones again.

Apple has been handling this comparatively well if they aren’t able to release a solution today and I believe that they will continue to innovate, including with display technologies, Accessibility settings, and eye health.

Thank you for listening to the sensitive few as I know you still do year-after-year.

Thank you,

- Michael

 

[esaelias187]

Yes, when I got my 11 at launch back in 2019 I had a pain/pressure behind my left eye when I used it that persisted for the first month or so.
I brushed it off thinking that this phone did not have OLED, it may have just been "in my head" because I had just tried an XS the year before that didn't work out because of PWM, and I may have just had that on my mind.

Eventually I got past that and it was fine, until the last couple of months about a year later when it became occasionally uncomfortable- something that NEVER happened with the 6s and 7 phones I had before it.

I miss those phones- so incredibly comfortable to look at, I could spend so much time on them with no issues at all.

What are you using now

 

[jm31828]

What are you using now

I’m using a 13 mini.. it’s not too bad, but is uncomfortable at times.

 

[orbitalpunk]

Ive been using my 15 Pro for 4 days now and ive noticed that i don't have the symptoms i had in the first two days. Day 1 i had some tension in the front of my forehead. day 2 i had eye fatigue after a 2 hour face time call. since then I haven't felt anything and I face time each day for about 2 hours on it. what does it mean when symptoms go away? Did my eyes just need to get used to the new type of display and I shouldn't worry about it now as long as I dont sense any symptoms or is it a wolfs in sheep's clothing kinda thing? for reference, ive been using an 11 since its release so all LCD for the past several years. I did try the 12 Pro for like 5 minutes when it frist came out and said nope. So Ive never tried to use a OLED display for this long before.

 

[jimmy_uk]

At least I dodged this bullet:

Kuo: iPhone 15 Pro Overheating Issues Likely Due to Thermal Compromises, Not 3nm Node

"Kuo says that overheating could be caused by "compromises made in the thermal system design" that allowed Apple to cut down on the weight of the ‌iPhone 15 Pro‌ models. Kuo says that the reduced heat dissipation area and titanium frame have negatively impacted the thermal efficiency of the devices.

Apple is expected to address the thermal issues through software updates, but improvements will be limited unless Apple plans to lower processor performance. Kuo believes that if Apple is unable to "properly address this issue," shipments could be impacted over the life cycle of the ‌iPhone 15 Pro‌."


Is Apple slowly designing itself into a corner? Hundreds of SKUs, strange/compromised design decisions, software limitations, planned obsolesces.

 

[PwmMen]

Dear people,
My iPhone 12 Pro is sold. The iPhone 15 Pro Max remains.
I still can't believe I can actually use it. I'm just thrilled that it works.
I finally have a current iPhone again and I don't care about the next few years.
I am aware that it may take years before I can tolerate a new iPhone, just like it did after the iPhone 12 Pro.
On the subject of OLED TV devices, I don't tolerate them at all. Already had several models here.
On the other hand, I tolerate a Samsung TV with PWM excellently, crazy world, or crazy eyes.
We are all so different and everyone seems to react differently. That's incredible.

@orbitalpunk
This may well mean that your eyes are getting used to the display.
Be happy that you no longer have any symptoms. This is not a given.
Enjoy the iPhone 15 Pro, just like I do now. Apple has changed something.
I'm hearing more and more positive things around here too, and things seem to be looking up for us PWM sufferers.

 

[user1234]

All I can say is, we better hope to whatever God we believe in that microLED screens don't use pwn. If they do, it's pretty much a wrap for us... I am too old to deal with ANY sort of discomfort from a phone. As excited as I was for the X and XS Max, it's been all downhill from there.

OnePlus 12
MicroLED

These are my only options. If not, I can happily use a decent Moto (or other Android option) LCD. And I do find that if I am not as excited about my phone, I use it less. Wife appreciates this 😂

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only real difference with MicroLED is that the LEDs are not organic anymore. The rest is the same including the backplane and PWM. Unless a new PWM free backplane technology is invented it's not going to make any difference unfortunately, and PWM is needed because constant current dimming LEDs (organic or not) causes major color shift.

I have no idea what I will do when my iPhone 11 is no longer usable. Just got the battery replaced after 3 and a half years and now I'm just hoping software support will continue until another workable option is available, and also that it doesn't break or get stolen or anything since the 11 with 256 GB is no longer available anywhere. My backup XR also had it's battery replaced but I'm not optimistic about it getting iOS 18.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The only real difference with MicroLED is that the LEDs are not organic anymore. The rest is the same including the backplane and PWM. Unless a new PWM free backplane technology is invented it's not going to make any difference unfortunately, and PWM is needed because constant current dimming LEDs (organic or not) causes major color shift.

I have no idea what I will do when my iPhone 11 is no longer usable. Just got the battery replaced after 3 and a half years and now I'm just hoping software support will continue until another workable option is available, and also that it doesn't break or get stolen or anything since the 11 with 256 GB is no longer available anywhere. My backup XR also had it's battery replaced but I'm not optimistic about it getting iOS 18.

People in here might not want to hear it, but if microLED uses pwm, we will basically be forced to Android. No issue for people like me who like both, but it'll be a huge shock for people who are highly invested in the Apple ecosystem.

My current plan is to use my LCD android and hopefully the OnePlus 12 pwm "dimming" tech works. If not, I'll stay on my low end/mid range Androids. One perk is that I use my phone less if it's not that exciting. I used to spend way too much time on forums.

 

[jimmy_uk]

People in here might not want to hear it, but if microLED uses pwm, we will basically be forced to Android. No issue for people like me who like both, but it'll be a huge shock for people who are highly invested in the Apple ecosystem.

My current plan is to use my LCD android and hopefully the OnePlus 12 pwm "dimming" tech works. If not, I'll stay on my low end/mid range Androids. One perk is that I use my phone less if it's not that exciting. I used to spend way too much time on forums.

Yea, that'll be bad news for me as I need a computer now and planning on MBA. Wanted to secure the iPhone first then heavily invest in more gear - now the iPhone is a bust I feel I should stay with a Windows for home setup and go Android for phone.

 

[pwm away]

How bad is the miniLED

It’s interesting that there are some of us who have had issues with the iPad Pros. I have the 11” M2 one, and have generally got no issues. I say generally, as every now and then, after hours long, focused use, I get a bit of eye strain.

The Lupin measures this display at about 0.70% on average, similar to the LCD iPhones. It goes up to 2-3%, at very low brightness.

These are comparatively great values.

 

[pwm away]

I’ve been wanting to pen a thank-you note to Apple.

I’ve had similar thoughts for a while. But recently, I’ve started going towards see less positive view on Apple.

This is because it’s Apple, whether that’s fair or not. It’s on Apple for having put themselves into this position of talking up their great achievements, environmental practices, fight for human rights (privacy), taking a stance on political matters, accessibility, etc.

The self congratulatory Mother Earth segment is just the most recent example. Every event, PR, interview, etc., is full of hubris.

Now, of course none of this takes away from their phones being top quality, best or up there with the best. Their A series chip blows the competition away.

But when a company takes the stands that Apple takes, rather than simply producing top products, then they’re (at least for me) measured differently.

Especially when it comes to their accessibility approaches. This problem we have fits so well with accessibility. It would be so easy to add a setting and be done with it.
But also, even if fixing this took more effort and R&D costs, or it increased production costs a bit, Apple is one of those few companies that can either choose to swallow those costs, or pass it on to the consumer.
People will buy iPhones, and they will continue to do so, even as the prices increase.

 

[pwm away]

stay with a Windows for home setup and go Android for phone.

This ecosystem consideration (annoyance) is one reason why I’ve decided to move to platform agnostic services. It’s a slow process, but it makes me happy to in future be able to choose any phone, laptop, etc.
And while Apple has made strides in making their services more available across platforms, it’s not their priority.

Windows + Android is good, well working solution; macOS + Android not so much.

 

[dstow]

@karinatwork seems to have put her follow up using the 15 Pro and it seems positive, similar to 13 Pro, no issues

 

[Expos of 1969]

@karinatwork seems to have put her follow up using the 15 Pro and it seems positive, similar to 13 Pro, no issues

First time seeing her. Nothing flashy but good info given in a direct and woman next door approach. Unlike iJustine, Karin will not have to change her wet pants once the video concludes.

 

[DJTaurus]

My experience with iPhone 12 Pro is pretty flawless for day one. Usually my symptoms kick in on day 2.

 

[jm31828]

It’s interesting that there are some of us who have had issues with the iPad Pros. I have the 11” M2 one, and have generally got no issues. I say generally, as every now and then, after hours long, focused use, I get a bit of eye strain.

The Lupin measures this display at about 0.70% on average, similar to the LCD iPhones. It goes up to 2-3%, at very low brightness.

These are comparatively great values.

Thanks for the details- that is fantastic with .70%- 2 or 3%- and the PWM rate is extremely high as well, correct?

Now if only they made that one the size of the iPad Mini, I might really be interested.

 

[GlenK]

I'm disappointed Apple has not seemed very interested in offering a phone for the percentage of their customers that have this issue. A LCD SE the size of the current mainline iPhone can not be that difficult to do. We keep reading about it but talk is cheap. Just make the thing and get it out there. I'm a share holder and have made lot of money on Apple but it still irritates the heck out of that this is still in limbo.

 

[asus389]

Did zollotech ever say how/why he can use PWM phones now? Just one day he got used to it and then was fine with it? Or was there a specific model with improvements that made the difference? Wish I could figure out his method. He's been on the current Pro/Max for a while now I think?

 

[Mr.Simple]

Looks great. I wonder if the LCD displays on these are problematic at all for some people like Apple's LCD"s are? Or is Apple just pushing crazy magic that nobody else does to theirs to try to make the colors look better?

It would be a problem for me to try to get out of the Apple ecosystem, but a phone like this would be so nice.

I have tried the Moto G54 last week and send it back. I could not read text so comfortable on the LCD display like it should be. The display looks quite sharp. So maybe this is a reason that it's harder for my eyes to properly focus. But the symptoms are not so worse like on OLED display.

 

[dstow]

I'm disappointed Apple has not seemed very interested in offering a phone for the percentage of their customers that have this issue. A LCD SE the size of the current mainline iPhone can not be that difficult to do. We keep reading about it but talk is cheap. Just make the thing and get it out there. I'm a share holder and have made lot of money on Apple but it still irritates the heck out of that this is still in limbo.

It's not due to difficulty but rather display technology has moved on along with the percentage of people effected by PWM (including me) is so small with many un-aware of the issue, why would Apple continue manufacture dated LCD display's on flagship devices (putting PWM aside) which are superior in every measurable metric. If it wasn't for phones making use of PWM, OLED is clearly superior in contrast/response time/black levels - it's just unfortunate we are in the minority

 

[jaapnl]

Just curious if any of you guys have felt a nauseating feeling in certain retail stores? It has happened to me, and sure enough when I come to think about it and put my camera on 240hz slo-mo I can see the lights flicker. This issue with PWM is such an interesting one, I wish there'd be more discussion and awareness to it.

I know that this kind of discussion is easily labeled as crazy talk and laughed at, but for my sake I will steer clear of PWM-regulated dimmable LED lights and I would not want to have a car that has a modern dashboard with PWM flicker. I know this is slightly off topic, but I'm trying to shed light on the matter on a bigger scale. I'm hoping that one day there will be flicker free iPhones again.

 

[Leindt]

I’ve been wanting to pen a thank-you note to Apple.

They have been understanding, allowing us to try the latest iPhone or even multiple iPhones each year and return them without hassle within a reasonable timeframe if they do inevitably cause headaches.

I do believe that they’ve been more cognizant of PWM, even if there’s been no fix or real Accessibility setting.

Apple has been creating the best iPhones ever, by far, otherwise.

We take for granted how amazing it is that a device this thin and light is so powerful.

The display looks beyond realistic with HDR content to the point that zooming into the rounded corners makes for an immersive experience that quite dramatically outdoes the average home theater and even dedicated theaters in terms of clarity.

I could go on about the astonishing performance of these tiny speakers, which create a convincing soundstage and put out increasingly deeper amounts of bass. Or the gorgeous titanium build. Or the promise of what’s to come. It’s not just the cameras that define the iPhone experience as some users have stated, as that’s only a tiny part of it.

But we’ll be waiting for them to solve PWM once and for all to fully be able to appreciate these iPhones again.

Apple has been handling this comparatively well if they aren’t able to release a solution today and I believe that they will continue to innovate, including with display technologies, Accessibility settings, and eye health.

Thank you for listening to the sensitive few as I know you still do year-after-year.

Thank you,

- Michael

This is all well and good and I understand you, but in the end they are a company, their goal is to make money, and we can't use their devices, that's all.

I don't think we should humanize a tech giant.

 

[Samut]

I went to a local store to check how 15 pro feels. Initially the display feels quite nice but in about 10 minutes I felt familiar pressure building between eyes.

This has been the case with a couple of last iPhone pros. Pros are still much kinder for my eyes than the regular models as they feel uncomfortable straight away.

Did not want to try other models at the same time as I will try them all individually.