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The idea that one is better than the other 🙄. "Oh I heard the standard 15 is better, I read the 15PM is best". The numbers and others accounts ain't gonna help. You have to try it (or don't).

The 15PM felt absolutely fine for the couple of hours I used it. It even had me thinking: "yes, finally"! The next day was awful and 4 days later my eyes and brain still hurt. Clearly I'm on the very sensitive end of the scale, but to be feeling this bad days later is very concerning to me.

I say this to not necessarily put you off, but I can't help but feel that if your sensitive to this stuff, no amount of fiddling at the edges or swapping out models is ever going to make it “just right” sadly.

(Yes, I sound and am defeated).
 
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Hopefully the 13 works out for you highest iphone PWM rate on Notebookcheck
iPhone 13 was dizzying for me, but looking at the measurements of having both the lowest modulations all the way down to below 2% at maximum brightness and the highest frequency of 610Hz recorded by Notebookcheck still indicates to me that Apple did make an effort to try to fix this issue on the iPhone 13 generation specifically.
 
iPhone 13 was dizzying for me, but looking at the measurements of having both the lowest modulations all the way down to below 2% at maximum brightness and the highest frequency of 610Hz recorded by Notebookcheck still indicates to me that Apple did make an effort to try to fix this issue on the iPhone 13 generation specifically.
I don't believe that - it was just an unintended secondary byproduct of the tech/parts/settings they used. If Apple were actively tinkering to address PWM then we would see this on every model and on future products. If anything it's getting worse as PWM & dithering is showing on all their products and more people are becoming vocal as they notice it / are affected by it. I see more comments on forums and youtube than ever before about this.
 
How easy is this to fix on Iphones?

Appreciate they could just bring out an LCD version of new phones (ala Iphone 11) but how can this be fixed whilst still using an OLED? Surely if it were that easy, such as a software change you can enable/disable Apple or Samsung would have done this ages ago, especially being the first to announce as it would pull more people to their new products.
 
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How easy is this to fix on Iphones?

Appreciate they could just bring out an LCD version of new phones (ala Iphone 11) but how can this be fixed whilst still using an OLED? Surely if it were that easy, such as a software change you can enable/disable Apple or Samsung would have done this ages ago, especially being the first to announce as it would pull more people to their new products.
It's down to the #1 screen manufacturer, Samsung. They have a near monopoly in the field. They could easily "fix" the issue, but it would cost them a marginal amount of money, which would trickle down to their customers and then finally to us, the phone end user. Pwm is 100% about cost saving. It doesn't need to exist, but pwm is the cheapest way for OLED screen manufacturers to build their product, so they keep it around. Most people don't have any side effects or even know what pwm is, which is why it's never really been addressed.

If microLED uses pwm, most of us in this thread are probably going to be on the sidelines for another decade or more.
 
The idea that one is better than the other 🙄. "Oh I heard the standard 15 is better, I read the 15PM is best". The numbers and others accounts ain't gonna help. You have to try it (or don't).

The 15PM felt absolutely fine for the couple of hours I used it. It even had me thinking: "yes, finally"! The next day was awful and 4 days later my eyes and brain still hurt. Clearly I'm on the very sensitive end of the scale, but to be feeling this bad days later is very concerning to me.

I say this to not necessarily put you off, but I can't help but feel that if your sensitive to this stuff, no amount of fiddling at the edges or swapping out models is ever going to make it “just right” sadly.

(Yes, I sound and am defeated).
I’m sorry you’re still suffering. That’s very concerning!

I do wonder why we are sensitive and so many millions of others aren’t. Even if a growing number of people are sensitive, we are still a minority.

And we’re a minority that unlike protected classes or people with other recognized disabilities, won’t have legally required accommodations made for jobs or education. I’m still seeing in just about every discussion on the subject a person or several people chime in that it’s psychological not neurological.

With that a popular belief, it will be difficult to have our problems recognized by medical professionals and lawyers and lawmakers who could advocate for us to have the necessary resources and protections to remain active participants in society.

~~~~~TL/DR rant of my worries:

The way society and even families work these days, if you’re not connected you’re treated like you don’t exist. So I’m terribly worried about where this will all lead for us as we struggle to find devices that will still work safely for us yet are still current.

I’ve already faced consequences I never anticipated over what I saw as a simple decision to remove myself from Mark Zuckerberg’s pernicious influence.

I’m literally dead to a significant number of my friends and extended family because I left Facebook several years ago. Some of them were mad enough about it to literally treat me like I’m dead to them when I attempted to stay in contact via email or other means. My husband has an account but rarely posts so even he was culled from friends lists of extended family he financially supported. That means for instance we no longer know about great nieces we kept fed or sent to camp and so forth.

And because my children’s schools and even my mother’s assisted living puts a significant amount of information exclusively on their social media pages, namely FB and Instagram, I’m left completely in the dark about crucial things unless a connected friend or my husband tells me about it.

So, I’m very concerned about enduring further consequences of being exiled from iOS.

If I’m not on iMessages it’s extremely inconvenient for my immediate family members to let me know they’re going to be late for dinner or bringing friends over. I’m even on good terms with their friends and so kids that used to visit mine, but who now have gone off to college still occasionally send me a photo and quick hello on iMessage.

I find it easier to conduct transactions using Face ID as an authenticator than the stupid in screen Touch ID that infests Android devices now. Those things fail more. Pixel had excellent Touch ID buttons once upon a time. Now it’s a toss up whether or not my fingerprints will be recognized when I’m trying to get into my accounts.

So even though I like and use Androids, as an American I’m kind of screwed if I end up having to give up on iOS entirely. I can’t drag an iPad mini everywhere with me. I need these blasted iPhones to just work without sending me to my sick bed.
 
i have both the 15 and 15 pro and the pro was way better on my my eyes. Ive read the pro max is even better so Id suggest trying the pro max next.

Edit: nevermind, i see you updated your post saying you tried the Max already.
lol I’m sure that even if there are minions secretly toiling at Apple to try and solve this issue for us, it must drive them nuts that we’re not uniform in what we can tolerate.

There are phones some of you use that I can’t tolerate at all. But I’m using phones some of you can barely stand to look at.

This is a most perplexing issue. What makes us different not just from pwm tolerant customers but also different from each other?

Lol and does this sensitivity give us any advantages? Like can any of us see dead people? I know at one point in our discussion a some of us thought we could see infrared beams on occasion that we technically aren’t supposed to be able to see. But no, sadly I don’t think any of us has a cool super power from this.
 
Def gonna go down the line of buying a used 13 or 14 and have the screen replaced for an LCD.

Local shop near to me has quoted £85 for supplying screen and fitting.

He has warned of possible issues but has done it a few times before (mainly for cost reasons LCD v OLED) and never had anyone come back with issues.
 
lol I’m sure that even if there are minions secretly toiling at Apple to try and solve this issue for us, it must drive them nuts that we’re not uniform in what we can tolerate.

There are phones some of you use that I can’t tolerate at all. But I’m using phones some of you can barely stand to look at.

This is a most perplexing issue. What makes us different not just from pwm tolerant customers but also different from each other?

Lol and does this sensitivity give us any advantages? Like can any of us see dead people? I know at one point in our discussion a some of us thought we could see infrared beams on occasion that we technically aren’t supposed to be able to see. But no, sadly I don’t think any of us has a cool super power from this.
OLEDs are relatively new. And long term effects unknown. The vast majority don't see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And they might not be immune to the effects, perhaps way down on the road. Something tells me the people who manufacture and design these panels will have trouble down the line for not addressing the harmful effects. Perhaps we will be the fortunate ones for eschewing these phones and minimizing the damage. Just maybe.
 
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lol I’m sure that even if there are minions secretly toiling at Apple to try and solve this issue for us, it must drive them nuts that we’re not uniform in what we can tolerate.

There are phones some of you use that I can’t tolerate at all. But I’m using phones some of you can barely stand to look at.

This is a most perplexing issue. What makes us different not just from pwm tolerant customers but also different from each other?

Lol and does this sensitivity give us any advantages? Like can any of us see dead people? I know at one point in our discussion a some of us thought we could see infrared beams on occasion that we technically aren’t supposed to be able to see. But no, sadly I don’t think any of us has a cool super power from this.
The problem I think is the use of pulsing for dimming and color correction. I can’t use any OLED display without getting a headache (so far anyway). A few weeks ago I was driving and noticed flashing in my rear view mirror that was driving me nuts - it was the headlights on a new Toyota of some sort that I learned after a bit of looking uses pulsing. It really bothered me, so I suppose I am among those that are quite sensitive to pulsing. I think the differences among those affected are just a matter of degree and what frequencies are problematic. My hope is that eventually the use of pulsing as a method of dimming will be found to be a huge mistake, but I may be dead from old age before this happens.
 
Day 5 with my iPhone 15 Pro max.
Today is the first day when I use it as normal
And i doesn't test it for hours like the first few days. So it is
My normal everyday life, as I use a smartphone.
120Hz is deactivated because it consumes battery and I don't see any added value.
Normal use does not make any complaints that remains 15 Pro Max.
 
Ah well, I’ve been intrigued by the Honor 90 and its 3,840Hz PWM for a while now.

So I’ve placed an order.

Quite curious how it will feel, and what the Radex Lupin will measure 🤞🏻
I've been trying to follow the discussion on all the measurements you guys are taking but I admit it's all Greek to me. I left all that knowledge and comprehension behind 40 years ago, unfortunately.

I mean I understand the basics and know the terms because I was in a STEM type of program and took electronics class where we were taught about waves and oscillation and so forth, and I once took all the required math classes including some calculus class I got an A in but can't remember to save my life. But then it gets into a muddle when I try to understand the whole of what's being conveyed.
 
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The problem I think is the use of pulsing for dimming and color correction. I can’t use any OLED display without getting a headache (so far anyway). A few weeks ago I was driving and noticed flashing in my rear view mirror that was driving me nuts - it was the headlights on a new Toyota of some sort that I learned after a bit of looking uses pulsing. It really bothered me, so I suppose I am among those that are quite sensitive to pulsing. I think the differences among those affected are just a matter of degree and what frequencies are problematic. My hope is that eventually the use of pulsing as a method of dimming will be found to be a huge mistake, but I may be dead from old age before this happens.
My kids can use just about any iPhone but one of them says the pulsing of the headlights of a car in an opposite lane made them so sick they nearly had to pull over.

Everyone I know hates how blindingly bright headlights have become, especially ones that are almost blue. I think at some point we will need to introduce legislation to address how dangerous these are becoming. It pains me to think of how many animals end up as roadkill because they're being blinded and confused into inaction. And people don't even care to slow down or stop even for humans anymore, let alone animals.
 
It's down to the #1 screen manufacturer, Samsung. They have a near monopoly in the field. They could easily "fix" the issue, but it would cost them a marginal amount of money, which would trickle down to their customers and then finally to us, the phone end user. Pwm is 100% about cost saving. It doesn't need to exist, but pwm is the cheapest way for OLED screen manufacturers to build their product, so they keep it around. Most people don't have any side effects or even know what pwm is, which is why it's never really been addressed.

If microLED uses pwm, most of us in this thread are probably going to be on the sidelines for another decade or more.

Sadly I don't see why microLED would not use PWM... we already see the miniLED displays on the iPad Pro using PWM, so I would assume MicroLED is the same.
 
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Def gonna go down the line of buying a used 13 or 14 and have the screen replaced for an LCD.

Local shop near to me has quoted £85 for supplying screen and fitting.

He has warned of possible issues but has done it a few times before (mainly for cost reasons LCD v OLED) and never had anyone come back with issues.
Curious question.... if you change the screen in one of these to LCD, would PWM still occur, because the display driver in the phone's processor is programmed to output that kind of control to the display (since it's tailored for that OLED display)?

I'd LOVE to change out the display on one of these for an LCD and go that route if it was possible, I guess I had always assumed that it would still act the same way for the reason noted above.
 
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Sadly I don't see why microLED would not use PWM... we already see the miniLED displays on the iPad Pro using PWM, so I would assume MicroLED is the same.
I'm assuming pwm on mini led is used to reduce the power consumption and maybe help the slow response times. Microled should be more power efficient (and you don't have the problem of burn in). Anyway microled will not be there for a long time. Maybe apple will start using it on smaller displays like the watch.
 
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So now what ? We should revisit iPhone 13 ? LMAO. Tomorrow i am receiving 12 pro…..

I know situation is becoming comical…..
Yeah, frustrating isn't it?

I don't think 13 is the answer... there were plenty of people reporting issues on the 13 as well back in the day. There were some who felt 14 was an improvement over the 13 series, and now we see several who are finding that the 15 is an improvement- so it seems for many there is gradual improvement- just not good enough for many yet.
 
Yeah, frustrating isn't it?

I don't think 13 is the answer... there were plenty of people reporting issues on the 13 as well back in the day. There were some who felt 14 was an improvement over the 13 series, and now we see several who are finding that the 15 is an improvement- so it seems for many there is gradual improvement- just not good enough for many yet.
Yeah the 13 resurfaced because the_top_g from reddit said this, from his link:

I appreciate his findings here! Also looking forward to seeing if the 15 plus ends up being better for people than the other 15's as well!
 

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