Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[5105973]

Yes I do have. The symptoms which you have brought up I do have experienced, along with the tourette symptoms-like repetitive muscle jerks.

For lasers shows, I do struggle with them too. It's less likely because they flicker (since their flicker hertz is at 250,000 hertz, unless they deliberating strobe for visual effects) but because they form shapes that trigger my migraine, with these kind of patterns below

It seems that this particular pattern is somehow creating somekind of visual stress, like the image below(credits to a redditor that shared to me)

Spoiler: warning: may cause headache and discomfort

I think I have a good idea who your husband was on reddit. Do help me to thank him for finding my information helpful!

Lol I wonder who this guy is. No it’s definitely not my husband. He has zero posts on Reddit. He just accumulates and reads items of interest on various social media feeds. I had my husband go to the thread since when I clicked on it I couldn’t seem to see everything without an account.

He never posts on social media except rare comments to relatives on FB due to stringent guidelines of his employers. Even I’m under strong restrictions, not legally binding but socially binding. I once was critical on a social media post of a random public figure who ended up becoming a colleague for a brief while. That’s the sort of awkward thing the guidelines are meant to prevent.

Oh yeah I forgot about the Tourette’s type symptoms. I got stuck barking like a dog once during a really bad one. But that wasn’t from pwm. I can’t remember what triggered that seizure but it was a doozy. The worst of all of this happened when I went through menopause. I’m glad that’s over with.

I’m posting this from my 15 Pro Max. I read a post that taking off the screen protector might help. So my phone is completely nekkid and I’m definitely doing better on it. But not enough that I’m tempted to keep it. I want to try the regular 15/15 Plus. I think if I’m willing to go without a screen protector I could do even better on a display like my daughter’s phone has.

 

[DJTaurus]

I am stuck with the iphone X ios 14.X too! Are you using the 12 pro with ios 17?

Yeap. I ve never tried it before. Only 12 which was awful.

 

[esaelias187]

zollotech said he coudnt see any flicker on

15 pro

 

[5105973]

I have been under the care of a neurologist for 2.5 years since the Iphone 12 pro caused me to have a rare condition called NDPH. I used the phone for nearly 3 weeks before I realised the cause.

The NHS were useless and the wait times to see a neuro were ridiculous (not to mention my nearest NHS nuero wasn't specialist in headaches and I could only initially be referred to my local one).

Due to the pain I paid to go private and am under the care of this guy...

Dr Fayyaz Ahmed - Neurologist | Specialist Private Consultant In Headache | Hull, East Yorkshire (Near Scunthorpe & Grimsby) | Spire Hull And East Riding Hospital

Professor Fayyaz Ahmed, Neurologist , MBBS, MD, FRCP, MBA, MRCP (neurology), PGCME at Spire Healthcare. Learn more about this consultant here.

www.spirehealthcare.com

There is nobody better qualified in the UK really.

He referred me to himself on the NHS to allow MRI's, CT scans, X-Rays and eye scans etc without further cost. They all came back clear to remove any serious brain injury concerns etc.

He was very interested to hear about my story and has no doubt my new phone was the trigger. Lightbulbs, monitors etc are all factors in increasing specialist headaches or chronic migraine conditions being diagnosed.

2.5 years later and I still have the pain (If pain goes beyond 2 years this often means you have it for life). I take a cocktail of 3 drugs at the moment to keep it manageable to allow me to continue my normal day to day life. I have just learnt to deal with the pain.

I have had time off work, breakdowns as prescription drugs effected my mental health and hormone levels. One drug gave me memory loss and I wasn't in a fit state to drive.

I have tried propanolol, indometacin, topiramate, amitryptaline, noritrptaline, candesartan as prophylaxis drugs. I then take Naproxen, sumatryptin and Frovatriptan as pain relief when it breaks through.

Next month my next treatment will probably begin. Either 40 botox injections into my scalp on a monthly basis or trying a relatively new drug on the market called CPRG which will be posted to me in a refrigerated box for me to inject at home.

Annoying how we can't have the latest phone but I would happily go back to my trusty Nokia 3310 if it meant my condition went away.

Goodness that’s all so awful how your pain never goes away. And no I never forgot your initial post. It’s why I’ll put up with some eye fatigue but am careful about pain. I hope the new treatments bring you relief and even a cure.

Neurologist wait times used to be quite reasonable here in the US but now they are around 8-14 months long from what I can tell. I’ve read that long Covid has caused neurologists to be in high demand.

 

[john g.]

I’m posting this from my 15 Pro Max. I read a post that taking off the screen protector might help. So my phone is completely nekkid and I’m definitely doing better on it. But not enough that I’m tempted to keep it. I want to try the regular 15/15 Plus. I think if I’m willing to go without a screen protector I could do even better on a display like my daughter’s phone has.

I'm certainly not trying to egg you on or enable you because it's quite possible that no OLED iPhone will ever work for you.

However, I'm one of those people that found relief when I ditched the screen protector. I tried every 14 model last year and the ones that pegged me the least were the regular 14s. I tried it without a screen protector and it was enough to make it very usable. So, even though we are all different, it certainly makes sense to me that it would be reasonable to at least try a 15 or 15+ without a screen protector.

As a sidenote, my wife got a regular size 15. I helped her set it up without a screen protector and didn't notice anything. Now she has a screen protector on because she drops her phone weekly. So when I look at that I feel a little sense of nausea but I do wonder if it's just a screen protector for me. In the brief amount of time I looked at her phone without a screen protector it seemed pretty good. YMMV. Good luck!

 

[Abiyork]

Goodness that’s all so awful how your pain never goes away. And no I never forgot your initial post. It’s why I’ll put up with some eye fatigue but am careful about pain. I hope the new treatments bring you relief and even a cure.

Neurologist wait times used to be quite reasonable here in the US but now they are around 8-14 months long from what I can tell. I’ve read that long Covid has caused neurologists to be in high demand.

Good luck with your search. We are lucky with the NHS but the wait times are crazy.

I have now been referred to his NHS clinic and the botox treatment is free rather than £3600 every 6 months

 

[Abiyork]

I'm certainly not trying to egg you on or enable you because it's quite possible that no OLED iPhone will ever work for you.

However, I'm one of those people that found relief when I ditched the screen protector. I tried every 14 model last year and the ones that pegged me the least were the regular 14s. I tried it without a screen protector and it was enough to make it very usable. So, even though we are all different, it certainly makes sense to me that it would be reasonable to at least try a 15 or 15+ without a screen protector.

As a sidenote, my wife got a regular size 15. I helped her set it up without a screen protector and didn't notice anything. Now she has a screen protector on because she drops her phone weekly. So when I look at that I feel a little sense of nausea but I do wonder if it's just a screen protector for me. In the brief amount of time I looked at her phone without a screen protector it seemed pretty good. YMMV. Good luck!

You can get blue light protectors too which could help

 

[5105973]

I'm certainly not trying to egg you on or enable you because it's quite possible that no OLED iPhone will ever work for you.

However, I'm one of those people that found relief when I ditched the screen protector. I tried every 14 model last year and the ones that pegged me the least were the regular 14s. I tried it without a screen protector and it was enough to make it very usable. So, even though we are all different, it certainly makes sense to me that it would be reasonable to at least try a 15 or 15+ without a screen protector.

As a sidenote, my wife got a regular size 15. I helped her set it up without a screen protector and didn't notice anything. Now she has a screen protector on because she drops her phone weekly. So when I look at that I feel a little sense of nausea but I do wonder if it's just a screen protector for me. In the brief amount of time I looked at her phone without a screen protector it seemed pretty good. YMMV. Good luck!

No there’s definitely something about screen protectors. I never felt it quite noticeable on my other phones. My SE 3 doesn’t have a screen protector on it after I cracked it and couldn’t be bothered to replace it and I still had issues.

But there definitely is something to be said for taking the screen protector off of the iPhone 15 Pro Max. I was just using it for almost 2 hours. While the relief was not perfect it was a noticeable improvement.

I don’t necessarily want to keep a phone as expensive as the 15 Pro Max is without a screen protector. I might go with the smaller 15 this way, though. I’d also consider not using it as a trade in and keeping it so I don’t care if it gets some “character”.

I can’t imagine why taking a screen protector off would make any difference. These are optically clear from what I can tell. I’d like to know the science behind the results. Even if it’s just a placebo effect I’d love to know how the brain can be tricked so effectively.

 

[john g.]

I can’t imagine why taking a screen protector off would make any difference. These are optically clear from what I can tell. I’d like to know the science behind the results. Even if it’s just a placebo effect I’d love to know how the brain can be tricked so effectively.

I don't know either, and I certainly didn't invent the idea. As a matter of fact, I can't remember who first mentioned it, but it was on this forum.
I have always run screen protectors on the LCD screens and been fine.

My theory is that the OLED screens are just harsh in their own way, and are very reflective and the screen protector magnifies that for me. I don't think it has anything necessarily to do with PWM. It's just a thing. Just like promotion didn't work out for me as well. A whole potpourri of things to cause symptoms for us.

 

[esaelias187]

I genuine think the iPhone 13 is decent

 

[jm31828]

I don't know either, and I certainly didn't invent the idea. As a matter of fact, I can't remember who first mentioned it, but it was on this forum.
I have always run screen protectors on the LCD screens and been fine.

My theory is that the OLED screens are just harsh in their own way, and are very reflective and the screen protector magnifies that for me. I don't think it has anything necessarily to do with PWM. It's just a thing. Just like promotion didn't work out for me as well. A whole potpourri of things to cause symptoms for us.

Yeah, that's part of my thing, too. Sure there is flicker that's problematic, but wow- OLED displays are so sharp, so bright- that it feels "biting" to the eyes vs a gentle LCD display.

 

[kargurin]

Wondering out loud, how many common devices can you think of that causes a subset of a population distress. Say, up to 10%. With ailments of varying degree the worst of which can get quite bad. Do these devices cause long term harm, even among those who are not symptomatic now?

 

[now i see it]

Wondering out loud

We are all wondering. I certainly am.
I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m not going to use an OLED device ever again. Never.
They’re too hazardous

 

[MICHAELSD]

Wondering out loud, how many common devices can you think of that causes a subset of a population distress. Say, up to 10%. With ailments of varying degree the worst of which can get quite bad. Do these devices cause long term harm, even among those who are not symptomatic now?

I would be curious of an actual study that determines what percentage of the hundreds of millions of people that are using these smartphones are noticeably affected by PWM.

I do think a fairly strong fraction of users are probably getting some minor headaches over certain periods of time or in a dark environment.

Then there is the subset like us that are negatively affected with a variety of symptoms all related to PWM sensitivity and/or temporal dithering, which makes me question how these devices can be usable for half of the waking day for a majority of people.

At least sources like DXOMark are becoming cognizant of it. iPhone 15 Pro Max deservedly received top marks in every category except flicker.

I’d like to say I won’t try an iPhone again until the next step change in display technology, but that’s hard to say with such limited options on both sides.

Then again with iPhone SE I’m sitting here wondering how else I would be spending my free moments throughout the day: playing some vibrant game to pass the time?

OLED isn’t as perfect as I thought it would be, and I’m glad that Apple is at least looking towards the future with MicroLED. Optimistically they should produce all of the main components of the iPhone, and I really hope they innovate with a flicker-free MicroLED design that blows away the competition.

I’ve said this many times, but I wholeheartedly believe that every user would benefit from a commitment to flicker-free displays from Apple and other smartphone manufacturers going forward—whether they know it or not.

 

[now i see it]

but I wholeheartedly believe that every user would benefit from a commitment to flicker-free displays from Apple and other smartphone manufacturers going forward—whether they know it or not.

Absolutely

 

[MICHAELSD]

Absolutely

The odd part is that Apple did have this commitment for as long as I’ve known the company and its products. It’s possible they’ve used PWM in the past, but the display team knows the potential drawbacks of using flickering displays.

 

[now i see it]

Yeah - the hard part to swallow is that OLED doesn’t solve any problems.
Yeah, it has darker blacks - but so what? At the expense of seizures, migraines, dizziness, eyestrain?
It’s tech that doesn’t need to exist.
The iPhone 6 Plus and 6S Plus had great enough screens and they didn’t bother anyone.
Sure they only have a sRGB color space... but so what? Is temporal dithering to create fake colors the answer? (No)

 

[5105973]

Yeah - the hard part to swallow is that OLED doesn’t solve any problems.
Yeah, it has darker blacks - but so what? At the expense of seizures, migraines, dizziness, eyestrain?
It’s tech that doesn’t need to exist.
The iPhone 6 Plus and 6S Plus had great enough screens and they didn’t bother anyone.
Sure they only have a sRGB color space... but so what? Is temporal dithering to create fake colors the answer? (No)

I remember though that everyone on tech forums and all the you tubers were on and on and on about how Apple absolutely has to move to OLED. Just like they're banging on now about how Apple has to abandon the 60hz refresh rate. It's always something. I'm sure Apple felt the pressure from Android competition. When the S8 displays came out they were impressive and I think that signaled the beginning of the end for the LCD on high end phones.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Yeah - the hard part to swallow is that OLED doesn’t solve any problems.
Yeah, it has darker blacks - but so what? At the expense of seizures, migraines, dizziness, eyestrain?
It’s tech that doesn’t need to exist.
The iPhone 6 Plus and 6S Plus had great enough screens and they didn’t bother anyone.
Sure they only have a sRGB color space... but so what? Is temporal dithering to create fake colors the answer? (No)

I will admit that OLED is a gorgeous display technology that can look an order of a magnitude better than LCD’s for the purpose of image/video due to the extreme contrast being achieved. There is utility and rationale behind OLED.

I don’t wish for a smartphone with an LCD, just that OLED displays are driven better with significantly less intrusive brightness controllers. Although I would accept an iPhone Liquid Retina display with a 460ppi.

That being said, iPad Pro 11” has a phenomenal LCD display that pushes the boundaries of contrast and color calibration. Unlike previous generations and most LCD panels I compare it to, it holds up quite well even compared to the gorgeous display on iPhone 15 Pro for all purposes. Unlike iPhone 15 Pro, it is much more comfortable for iOS and text.

More testing to come, but my eyes were being absolutely demolished by the minimum brightness setting on iPhone 15 Pro’s display when I used it for Navigation last night: long story short the Apple Store would have closed by the time I would have been able to make it. I do however want to power it off and begin testing other devices without the potential bias.

 

[jm31828]

I will admit that OLED is a gorgeous display technology that can look an order of a magnitude better than LCD’s for the purpose of image/video due to the extreme contrast being achieved. There is utility and rationale behind OLED.

I don’t wish for a smartphone with an LCD, just that OLED displays are driven better with significantly less intrusive brightness controllers. Although I would accept an iPhone Liquid Retina display with a 460ppi.

That being said, iPad Pro 11” has a phenomenal LCD display that pushes the boundaries of contrast and color calibration. Unlike previous generations and most LCD panels I compare it to, it holds up quite well even compared to the gorgeous display on iPhone 15 Pro for all purposes. Unlike iPhone 15 Pro, it is much more comfortable for iOS and text.

More testing to come, but my eyes were being absolutely demolished by the minimum brightness setting on iPhone 15 Pro’s display when I used it for Navigation last night: long story short the Apple Store would have closed by the time I would have been able to make it. I do however want to power it off and begin testing other devices without the potential bias.

Some people (myself included) are sensitive to the LCD displays on iPads, too. It's different, for me I don't really get a headache or eye strain or an ache behind one eye like I do with OLED, but it within just minutes gives me a really dry, sort of burning sensation in my eyes. It never goes beyond that, but it's annoying and has made me return any iPads I tried to buy (as well as the SE3 phone).

Do you have anything at all like that with the iPad Pro- or is it flawless for you?

I would love to find an iPad that works, use that for 90% of my browsing, and just stick with my 13 Mini phone for the long run to use for quick looks at email or text, Apple CarPlay connectivity, etc. If only one of these iPads wouldn't cause me problems...

 

[Samut]

Some people (myself included) are sensitive to the LCD displays on iPads, too. It's different, for me I don't really get a headache or eye strain or an ache behind one eye like I do with OLED, but it within just minutes gives me a really dry, sort of burning sensation in my eyes. It never goes beyond that, but it's annoying and has made me return any iPads I tried to buy (as well as the SE3 phone).

Do you have anything at all like that with the iPad Pro- or is it flawless for you?

I would love to find an iPad that works, use that for 90% of my browsing, and just stick with my 13 Mini phone for the long run to use for quick looks at email or text, Apple CarPlay connectivity, etc. If only one of these iPads wouldn't cause me problems...

I get dry eyes as well from my m1 ipad pro 11. I did not have this with my previous Ipads and as you said the feeling is different to oled eye strain.

It feels quite the same when I enable HDR on my desktop monitor which I suppose increases dithering or some other processing.

I suppose apple is just pushing these displays too much and it causes problems for some people.

 

[jm31828]

I get dry eyes as well from my m1 ipad pro 11. I did not have this with my previous Ipads and as you said the feeling is different to oled eye strain.

It feels quite the same when I enable HDR on my desktop monitor which I suppose increases dithering or some other processing.

I suppose apple is just pushing these displays too much and it causes problems for some people.

Interesting, so I'm not alone- I felt crazy with this since it's much harder to find others with this experience than it is to find those that are PWM sensitive!

Sorry to hear, though, that it makes you feel this way.

Does it get pretty bad, or just slightly annoying and you sort of ignore it?

I suspect it may be the dithering... though I tried an iPad 10th generation that is said by Notebookcheck to have no dithering (since it's just an sRGB display, not P3)- but same exact experience on it.

I don't have any issues with my 2017 27" iMac, oddly- nor do I with my old 2015 MacBook Air, or the Dell laptop I use for work.

 

[ocean10]

Interesting, so I'm not alone- I felt crazy with this since it's much harder to find others with this experience than it is to find those that are PWM sensitive!

Sorry to hear, though, that it makes you feel this way.

Does it get pretty bad, or just slightly annoying and you sort of ignore it?

I suspect it may be the dithering... though I tried an iPad 10th generation that is said by Notebookcheck to have no dithering (since it's just an sRGB display, not P3)- but same exact experience on it.

I don't have any issues with my 2017 27" iMac, oddly- nor do I with my old 2015 MacBook Air, or the Dell laptop I use for work.

I have issues with the iPads as well. Not nearly as bad as the OLED screens but I get a weird dizziness, feeling of unease and almost a "warmth" that comes over me. My body just feels "off". It takes a little while after using them to get fully back to normal as well. Interested is that I have two first generation iPad Pros. These have always been completely fine for me to look at. I upgraded one of them to iOS 16 and now it's very difficult to use with the symptoms I mention above. The one still on iOS 15 is completely fine. I can put them next to each other and it's impossible to tell the difference visually. But one makes me sick and one doesn't. I have an iPad 9th generation that I bought this summer to try and it's got similar issues.

I'm really not sure what to do at this point. Hard to understand what could change that would make me feel this way on two "identical" screens.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I have issues with the iPads as well. Not nearly as bad as the OLED screens but I get a weird dizziness, feeling of unease and almost a "warmth" that comes over me. My body just feels "off". It takes a little while after using them to get fully back to normal as well. Interested is that I have two first generation iPad Pros. These have always been completely fine for me to look at. I upgraded one of them to iOS 16 and now it's very difficult to use with the symptoms I mention above. The one still on iOS 15 is completely fine. I can put them next to each other and it's impossible to tell the difference visually. But one makes me sick and one doesn't. I have an iPad 9th generation that I bought this summer to try and it's got similar issues.

I'm really not sure what to do at this point. Hard to understand what could change that would make me feel this way on two "identical" screens.

I also cannot use the Pro iPads anymore but feel OK with the 9. I've not tried the 10 and the UK price hike left me not wanting to invest. The 2020 iPad Pro and onwards give me strained, gritty eyes which progressively feel worse over the days I continue to use them. I also get the queasy unease feeling. I haven't tried the M2 11" but don't imagine it's any better than M1 11". The Mini 6 was the same and the jelly scroll is very obvious to me.

The 12.9" with mini led makes my eyes screwy and I cannot focus correctly, it feels alot like a torch is being blasted across my vision. I had this same sensation when using the iPhone 11 several years ago but the model I have been using this year has been fine 🤷‍♂️.

 

[jm31828]

I have issues with the iPads as well. Not nearly as bad as the OLED screens but I get a weird dizziness, feeling of unease and almost a "warmth" that comes over me. My body just feels "off". It takes a little while after using them to get fully back to normal as well. Interested is that I have two first generation iPad Pros. These have always been completely fine for me to look at. I upgraded one of them to iOS 16 and now it's very difficult to use with the symptoms I mention above. The one still on iOS 15 is completely fine. I can put them next to each other and it's impossible to tell the difference visually. But one makes me sick and one doesn't. I have an iPad 9th generation that I bought this summer to try and it's got similar issues.

I'm really not sure what to do at this point. Hard to understand what could change that would make me feel this way on two "identical" screens.

Interesting you mention iOS16 being the point that this changed.
I tried an iPhone SE 3rd generation last Fall- when 16.0 had just released, and it was fine.

I returned it thinking I wanted a different phone, then ended up picking another one up. By this point 16.1 was out, and then I had this same issue as with iPads. I exchanged twice thinking I just had a bad display- same thing on each with 16.1.

Maybe something was changed specifically in 16.1 that was problematic on these LCD displays for a small minority of us.
I wonder if iOS 17 has fixed any of this?