Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jm31828]

I also cannot use the Pro iPads anymore but feel OK with the 9. I've not tried the 10 and the UK price hike left me not wanting to invest. The 2020 iPad Pro and onwards give me strained, gritty eyes which progressively feel worse over the days I continue to use them. I also get the queasy unease feeling. I haven't tried the M2 11" but don't imagine it's any better than M1 11". The Mini 6 was the same and the jelly scroll is very obvious to me.

The 12.9" with mini led makes my eyes screwy and I cannot focus correctly, it feels alot like a torch is being blasted across my vision. I had this same sensation when using the iPhone 11 several years ago but the model I have been using this year has been fine 🤷‍♂️.

On your last comment, you mean you have a different iPhone 11 and it works fine now?

 

[jimmy_uk]

On your last comment, you mean you have a different iPhone 11 and it works fine now?

Thats right. And it's lucky as my iPhone 7 Plus died overnight last year and I had to get a new phone fast. The 11 I have hasn't caused me any issues. No way I was using an SE 2022 as it's too small. I think I won the screen lottery on my iP11.

My 11 is fine but I still need and want a newer device. I was at least hoping to pair with an iPad Pro but none of them work for my eyes.

My favourite Apple product this year has been the Airpods Pro 2 which work great for me (super light and comfortable, ANC is great) so at least something went right.

This is the first time I've ever bought Applecare on an iPhone because I need to keep my 11 alive for as long as possible until a newer device I can use comfortably can be sourced. The 15 series ain't it. I'm stupidly tempted to try a 15 or 15 Plus but I have to stop self-harming.

 

[now i see it]

I need to keep my 11 alive for as long as possible until a newer device I can use comfortably can be sourced

Better not update it then. Some people are mentioning that their once Fine iPhone became a brain thrasher after updating the OS.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Better not update it then. Some people are mentioning that their once Fine iPhone became a brain thrasher after updating the OS.

Currently I'm on 16.6.1.

 

[jm31828]

Thats right. And it's lucky as my iPhone 7 Plus died overnight last year and I had to get a new phone fast. The 11 I have hasn't caused me any issues. No way I was using an SE 2022 as it's too small. I think I won the screen lottery on my iP11.

My 11 is fine but I still need and want a newer device. I was at least hoping to pair with an iPad Pro but none of them work for my eyes.

My favourite Apple product this year has been the Airpods Pro 2 which work great for me (super light and comfortable, ANC is great) so at least something went right.

This is the first time I've ever bought Applecare on an iPhone because I need to keep my 11 alive for as long as possible until a newer device I can use comfortably can be sourced. The 15 series ain't it. I'm stupidly tempted to try a 15 or 15 Plus but I have to stop self-harming.

I'm glad to hear that the 11 is working well for you now. Let's hope it lasts long enough for Apple to implement some meaningful DC dimming on the OLED displays.

Speaking of the 15 series- I went and bought one a few days ago, initially all excited. After a couple of days I realized, that aside from the dynamic island that really doesn't do much for me, and the marginally better camera (than my 13 Mini), it's not an exciting upgrade and I would be happy just sticking with an older phone.
But on top of that, after a couple of days I had pretty strong pain behind my left eye after using the phone- similar to what happens sometimes with my 13 Mini- so it was not an improvement as I hoped, so I'll definitely be returning it.

Back to the LCD discussion- now I am considering whether I should try an SE3 again one more time, to see if maybe this time the display doesn't bother me like it did last year.

Or, if I could find an iPad that doesn't bother me, I could get one of those for 90% of my browsing/media consumption, and keep my mini for quick lookups, texting, calls, and Apple Carplay connectivity.

One iPad I have not tried yet is the 9th gen- I may try picking one of those up the next time they go on sale for $250 at Costco (it seems that sale occurs there about once every month).

 

[jimmy_uk]

I'm glad to hear that the 11 is working well for you now. Let's hope it lasts long enough for Apple to implement some meaningful DC dimming on the OLED displays.

Speaking of the 15 series- I went and bought one a few days ago, initially all excited. After a couple of days I realized, that aside from the dynamic island that really doesn't do much for me, and the marginally better camera (than my 13 Mini), it's not an exciting upgrade and I would be happy just sticking with an older phone.
But on top of that, after a couple of days I had pretty strong pain behind my left eye after using the phone- similar to what happens sometimes with my 13 Mini- so it was not an improvement as I hoped, so I'll definitely be returning it.

Back to the LCD discussion- now I am considering whether I should try an SE3 again one more time, to see if maybe this time the display doesn't bother me like it did last year.

Or, if I could find an iPad that doesn't bother me, I could get one of those for 90% of my browsing/media consumption, and keep my mini for quick lookups, texting, calls, and Apple Carplay connectivity.

One iPad I have not tried yet is the 9th gen- I may try picking one of those up the next time they go on sale for $e250 at Costco (it seems that sale occurs there about once every month).

I would have loved to have been able to use and keep the Mini 13.

The iPad 9 feels absolutely fine like LCD of old. It’s just a shame it doesn’t have stereo speakers.

 

[jm31828]

I would have loved to have been able to use and keep the Mini 13.

The iPad 9 feels absolutely fine like LCD of old. It’s just a shame it doesn’t have stereo speakers.

Ah, no stereo speakers? That stinks- but at least it has a headphone jack.
It sounds promising, though, what you said about the 9 feeling absolutely fine.

Have you updated your 9 to iPad OS 17 yet?

I have had my 13 Mini since November of last year- and I had no trouble with it for the first few months, then I started noticing more and more occasional eye pain (left eye only) when using it. I suspect I have lighter PWM sensitivity than some of the others here, combined (and complicated by) other frequent unrelated minor headaches I get.

 

[ocean10]

Interesting you mention iOS16 being the point that this changed.
I tried an iPhone SE 3rd generation last Fall- when 16.0 had just released, and it was fine.

I returned it thinking I wanted a different phone, then ended up picking another one up. By this point 16.1 was out, and then I had this same issue as with iPads. I exchanged twice thinking I just had a bad display- same thing on each with 16.1.

Maybe something was changed specifically in 16.1 that was problematic on these LCD displays for a small minority of us.
I wonder if iOS 17 has fixed any of this?

Interesting you mention iOS16 being the point that this changed.
I tried an iPhone SE 3rd generation last Fall- when 16.0 had just released, and it was fine.

I returned it thinking I wanted a different phone, then ended up picking another one up. By this point 16.1 was out, and then I had this same issue as with iPads. I exchanged twice thinking I just had a bad display- same thing on each with 16.1.

Maybe something was changed specifically in 16.1 that was problematic on these LCD displays for a small minority of us.
I wonder if iOS 17 has fixed any of this?

On that iPad it went straight to a later version of iOS 16 from a iOS 15 version so I can’t tell when it switched exactly.

I can still use my iPhone SE3 (2022) for literally hours straight with no issues at all. It’s on 16.1.1 I’m scared to update it further because I don’t know what I’ll do without a useable phone if upgrading makes it bad to use.

I guess part of me is “relieved” that a software update caused the issue rather than just an overall sensitivity to these screens. If only we could find someone at Apple with the right knowledge to help us.

Out of 150,000+ employees at Apple I feel like there has to be at least a handful of people like us?

 

[ocean10]

I also cannot use the Pro iPads anymore but feel OK with the 9. I've not tried the 10 and the UK price hike left me not wanting to invest. The 2020 iPad Pro and onwards give me strained, gritty eyes which progressively feel worse over the days I continue to use them. I also get the queasy unease feeling. I haven't tried the M2 11" but don't imagine it's any better than M1 11". The Mini 6 was the same and the jelly scroll is very obvious to me.

The 12.9" with mini led makes my eyes screwy and I cannot focus correctly, it feels alot like a torch is being blasted across my vision. I had this same sensation when using the iPhone 11 several years ago but the model I have been using this year has been fine 🤷‍♂️.

What iOS in your 9 on? I’m wondering if mine came with an iOS that was already after it got worse for people.

 

[jimmy_uk]

Ah, no stereo speakers? That stinks- but at least it has a headphone jack.
It sounds promising, though, what you said about the 9 feeling absolutely fine.

Have you updated your 9 to iPad OS 17 yet?

I have had my 13 Mini since November of last year- and I had no trouble with it for the first few months, then I started noticing more and more occasional eye pain (left eye only) when using it. I suspect I have lighter PWM sensitivity than some of the others here, combined (and complicated by) other frequent unrelated minor headaches I get.

I don’t own the iPad 9 but there is one in my house that I have access to. It’s not on iOS17 yet, nor is my phone.

I’ve held off on buying an iPad, laptop and watch until I can sort out my phone upgrade. If I’m forced to switch to Android then I need to decouple from Apple's Ecosystem. If I could have used any of the iPP I might have stayed and used my iPhone 11 less. If I could have used the 15PM I would have ordered a MBA M2 and Ultra this week ☹️. The phone is the lynchpin as it’s the computer I use the most.

 

[jm31828]

On that iPad it went straight to a later version of iOS 16 from a iOS 15 version so I can’t tell when it switched exactly.

I can still use my iPhone SE3 (2022) for literally hours straight with no issues at all. It’s on 16.1.1 I’m scared to update it further because I don’t know what I’ll do without a useable phone if upgrading makes it bad to use.

I guess part of me is “relieved” that a software update caused the issue rather than just an overall sensitivity to these screens. If only we could find someone at Apple with the right knowledge to help us.

Out of 150,000+ employees at Apple I feel like there has to be at least a handful of people like us?

I've often wondered that. I wish one of us happened to know an individual who happens to be a tech at Apple- it would be interesting to get an unfiltered view into what they really know about this, and what they are really doing (if anything) about it- not from management, but from a regular tech.

 

[now i see it]

Back to the LCD discussion- now I am considering whether I should try an SE3 again one more time, to see if maybe this time the display doesn't bother me like it did last year

At this point I’d rule out unknowns (like temporal dithering).
Buy a used 6 Plus for $75 and try out that screen. It will be your baseline. It’s 401ppi, has a sRGB color space and is guaranteed to not thrash you.

You won’t enjoy using it cuz it’s horribly slow now on iOS 12 but the screen can be your reference to compare against all other iPhone screens. Your gold standard.

If the iPhone 6 Plus screen bothers your eyes- you need to see an ophthalmologist and get a new eyeglass prescription.

 

[jimmy_uk]

At this point I’d rule out unknowns (like temporal dithering).
Buy a used 6 Plus for $75 and try out that screen. It will be your baseline. It’s 401ppi, has a sRGB color space and is guaranteed to not thrash you.

You won’t enjoy using it cuz it’s horribly slow now on iOS 12 but the screen can be your reference to compare against all other iPhone screens. Your gold standard.

If the iPhone 6 Plus screen bothers your eyes- you need to see an ophthalmologist and get a new eyeglass prescription.

Why not 7 Plus or 8 Plus? If my 7 plus hadn't died I'd still be using it just for the higher ppi.

 

[jm31828]

I don’t own the iPad 9 but there is one in my house that I have access to. It’s not on iOS17 yet, nor is my phone.

I’ve held off on buying an iPad, laptop and watch until I can sort out my phone upgrade. If I’m forced to switch to Android then I need to decouple from Apple's Ecosystem. If I could have used any of the iPP I might have stayed and used my iPhone 11 less. If I could have used the 15PM I would have ordered a MBA M2 and Ultra this week ☹️

And that's the key for Apple- there is money being left on the table in cases like yours/ours- there are expensive devices you and others would be buying right now if it weren't for these issues.

Maybe it's a small enough number that they don't care.

I hope you find something that works for you, and if not- here's to finding the perfect fit on the Android side of the fence!

 

[jm31828]

At this point I’d rule out unknowns (like temporal dithering).
Buy a used 6 Plus for $75 and try out that screen. It will be your baseline. It’s 401ppi, has a sRGB color space and is guaranteed to not thrash you.

You won’t enjoy using it cuz it’s horribly slow now on iOS 12 but the screen can be your reference to compare against all other iPhone screens. Your gold standard.

If the iPhone 6 Plus screen bothers your eyes- you need to see an ophthalmologist and get a new eyeglass prescription.

Interesting thought.... the 6s and 7 did not bother me at all back in the day, they were great- it would be a good test.

 

[BigBen2493]

Interesting thought.... the 6s and 7 did not bother me at all back in the day, they were great- it would be a good test.

The good ole days

 

[now i see it]

Why not 7 Plus or 8 Plus?

I don’t know about the 7 Plus but I do know about the 8 Plus intimately. That screen is nothing like the 6 Plus or perhaps 6S Plus. The 8 Plus screen royally nailed me. Some Colors almost seemed to shimmer. I think it was the beginning of TD.
I had to sell it. I couldn’t look at it anymore. It’s DEFINITELY not a Standard Candle so to speak. It’s colors (on my display) were jacked. Much too saturated and it was hijacking my nervous system.
No problems whatsoever on the 6 Plus.

 

[jm31828]

I don’t know about the 7 Plus but I do know about the 8 Plus intimately. That screen is nothing like the 6 Plus or perhaps 6S Plus. The 8 Plus screen royally nailed me. Some Colors almost seemed to shimmer. I think it was the beginning of TD.
I had to sell it. I couldn’t look at it anymore. It’s DEFINITELY not a Standard Candle so to speak. It’s colors (on my display) were jacked. Much too saturated and it was hijacking my nervous system.
No problems whatsoever on the 6 Plus.

I think you are right about potentially the beginning of some sort of magic Apple was trying to pull off..... I had a 6s and a 7 that were absolutely no issue with my eyes- but I upgraded to an 8 Plus in 2018 and had pressure behind/in my left eye when using it for about the first month solid before that finally went away and I was then basically OK using it.

Thought it was odd at the time but didn't think much of it....

 

[Artvandelay1212]

I picked up a 15 (non-pro) and set it up last night, used it off and on for about an hour. Aside from the actual setup, I did some web browsing, Reddit browsing, and playing with some settings, testing the camera, etc.

I have to say that I didn't notice any real problems. I was having dry eyes over the last few days, and so I think the dry eye situation I was feeling just a bit when using the phone was unrelated. No real issues at all, and I did not wake up with a headache.

This very early, initial test seems positive.

It's so hard for me to tell because I am someone who has frequent (almost daily) headaches anyway- even when I purposely don't use my phone (my current phone is a 13 Mini), so it's been hard to differentiate between just regular headaches I might get anyway, and anything additional caused by the phone.

But last night was a night where I was not having any headaches, and nothing came on when using the phone- so I am hopeful!

There has been a ton of discussion here about PWM frequency, modulation percentage, etc. But I did the unscientific test last night, taking a slow-mo video of this phone in a dark room- and wow it's shocking how the thing strobes like crazy... same way that my 13 Mini looks in slow-mo. (and that was with brightness at 100% and RWP set to about 80%). The flicker did not look any different at other brightness levels.
The one thing I see different on this in slow mo is a thick black band that slowly moves up the screen- whereas when I record slow-mo video of my 13 Mini, I see the flicker- but don't see any band or lines.
Not sure what that means?

When I take the same slow-mo video of my wife's 14 Plus, interestingly I see no bands/bars, and see significantly less flicker- it's a subtle flicker vs the entire thing strobing like crazy as I see on my two phones.

I know everyone is different in their sensitivities, but it makes me wonder if my wife's 14 Plus is an overall healthier phone to be looking at for long periods of time, given that lack of visible heavy flicker in slow-mo as I see on these other two phones.

Anyway, I just wanted to share!
I'll continue testing over the next week or so (including taking it and my current phone out on a hike this weekend to test and compare the cameras) before deciding if I want to return it or not.

Just did the slo mo video of my 15 plus and it strobes like crazy too. I have been back and forth about whether or not to keep it but I don't think that's good for your eyes to look at for hours per day. Think there's any settings that can make it go away?

 

[esaelias187]

I also cannot use the Pro iPads anymore but feel OK with the 9. I've not tried the 10 and the UK price hike left me not wanting to invest. The 2020 iPad Pro and onwards give me strained, gritty eyes which progressively feel worse over the days I continue to use them. I also get the queasy unease feeling. I haven't tried the M2 11" but don't imagine it's any better than M1 11". The Mini 6 was the same and the jelly scroll is very obvious to me.

The 12.9" with mini led makes my eyes screwy and I cannot focus correctly, it feels alot like a torch is being blasted across my vision. I had this same sensation when using the iPhone 11 several years ago but the model I have been using this year has been fine 🤷‍♂️.

What model are you using this year

 

[now i see it]

Think there's any settings that can make it go away?

The Off button

 

[jm31828]

Just did the slo mo video of my 15 plus and it strobes like crazy too. I have been back and forth about whether or not to keep it but I don't think that's good for your eyes to look at for hours per day. Think there's any settings that can make it go away?

No, sadly that's how these displays function.

Each year there is hope that Apple has improved the situation- and the scientific measurements each year seem to provide some hope that maybe the strobing is less impactful... but realistically it's the same thing every year, and aside from a few who maybe get lucky, if someone was sensitive to the strobing on last year's model, it would be the same this year.

I suppose if it doesn't cause you any headaches, eye pain, or eye strain- you are OK. I don't know honestly if this has any sort of negative impact to those who aren't actually sensitive. I would guess not.

Personally even though I think I am not too sensitive to it, I am now getting eye pain with this- partly because it seems so bright and sharp, and partly because of the flicker.... and I am going to return mine. I have a 13 Mini that does the same thing, but am reducing the amount of time I use it, with longer stretches of browsing/media consumption being done on other devices that don't flicker like this (such as an old 2015 MacBook Air that I have).

 

[from reddit the_top_g]

Lol I wonder who this guy is. No it’s definitely not my husband. He has zero posts on Reddit. He just accumulates and reads items of interest on various social media feeds. I had my husband go to the thread since when I clicked on it I couldn’t seem to see everything without an account.

He never posts on social media except rare comments to relatives on FB due to stringent guidelines of his employers. Even I’m under strong restrictions, not legally binding but socially binding. I once was critical on a social media post of a random public figure who ended up becoming a colleague for a brief while. That’s the sort of awkward thing the guidelines are meant to prevent.

Oh yeah I forgot about the Tourette’s type symptoms. I got stuck barking like a dog once during a really bad one. But that wasn’t from pwm. I can’t remember what triggered that seizure but it was a doozy. The worst of all of this happened when I went through menopause. I’m glad that’s over with.

I’m posting this from my 15 Pro Max. I read a post that taking off the screen protector might help. So my phone is completely nekkid and I’m definitely doing better on it. But not enough that I’m tempted to keep it. I want to try the regular 15/15 Plus. I think if I’m willing to go without a screen protector I could do even better on a display like my daughter’s phone has.

Arh, I see. So that was what happened. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll do be interested how you would find the remaining two options.

Though I will still suggest the iphone 15 plus over 15 anyday. As I do not think the inconsistent wave in the smaller variant is for not everyone.

At least the iphone 15 plus is consistent in this regard.

 

[from reddit the_top_g]

Just did the slo mo video of my 15 plus and it strobes like crazy too. I have been back and forth about whether or not to keep it but I don't think that's good for your eyes to look at for hours per day. Think there's any settings that can make it go away?

As this has been mentioned multiple times in reddit and even on this forum, using the slow mo from a smartphone camera is just pseudoscience. That is because at 240 fps or 480 fps is way too low to capture result accurately.

Do get a slow motion capture camera at 10,000 fps for more accurate results.

Alternatively, you can go to your smartphone pro mode and set your shutter speed to 1/6400, ISO 3200.

You can download the following App for access to this feature:

For IOS
Manual Camera 4(for iPhone, paid app):

‎Manual Camera 4

‎Capture photos or videos with precise control over focus, exposure, ISO, shutter speed, white balance, and flash level. Manual Camera gives you DSLR-like controls with an intuitive interface. Also Includes: • RAW Photo Capture • Realtime histogram • Focus Peaking • Lock exposure, focus, white...

apps.apple.com

For Android
Camera FV-5

Camera FV-5 Lite - Apps on Google Play

Professional camera app that brings DSLR manual photography controls to Android.

play.google.com

Procam X lite

ProCam X - Lite :HD Camera Pro - Apps on Google Play

Professional photography on your mobile phone

play.google.com

Your shutter speed depends on your sensitivity to strobe light.

If you are not as sensitive, use 1/6400.

If you are more sensitive, use 1/10,000

If you are extremely sensitive, use 1/24,000 (which was what I have used for my Asus ROG Ally recording testing)

 

[jm31828]

Arh, I see. So that was what happened. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll do be interested how you would find the remaining two options.

Though I will still suggest the iphone 15 plus over 15 anyday. As I do not think the inconsistent wave in the smaller variant is for not everyone.

At least the iphone 15 plus is consistent in this regard.

Is the 15 Plus very similar to the 14 Plus in regards to this wave consistency? I remember people last year mentioning that of the 4 then, the 14 Plus also seemed to be the best/safest for those who were sensitive.