Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[MICHAELSD]

It’s fine, but I’m not sure how much longer I can deal with iPhone SE. I don’t really want to continue buying flickering iPhones just to end up returning them all either. I’d like to buy one, maybe iPhone 15 Plus, activate it, and keep it for at least a year. It was useful and practical to my life goals having an iPhone that I wanted to use as little as possible, but it’s beginning to feel like it’s making me less connected to the people that I want to communicate with throughout the day.

@jimmy_uk
Still no problems here with my iPhone 15 Pro Max.
Still, I'd rather have a flicker-free iPhone.
But I'm very happy that I can now use a current iPhone.

Such great news, congratulations! Doubly so considering your username, @PwmMen. The odd part is that iPhone 15 Pro Max looks all but identical to the PWM flickering on the previous two iPhones. None of the data would suggest that the modulation, frequency, or wavelength changed.

I took a look at this- the screenshots at 25% and 50% brightness look completely flat, with no modulation just as the LCD displays do. How can that be? Does it mean there is PWM flicker, but modulation depth is so incredibly shallow that it's barely noticeable in this testing?

Notebookcheck makes iPhone 14/15/Plus look stable as if they’re almost not even flickering. It’s a shame none of these iPhones are definitively usable for PWM-sensitive users.

 

[CocoPlops999]

The absolute best screen you can look at is the iPhone 6S Plus. 401 ppi LCD.
They are still available and run iOS 15. Super cheap too.

Had no issues with the 13 so I might see if I can get mine back via knocking back the trade in value

Thanks for the reply 😁

 

[CocoPlops999]

The only workaround: https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/

That’s for the reply 😁

Will see if I can get my 13 back via trade in. Extremely frustrating ☹️

 

[dstow]

Due to my recent issues with IOS17 on the Iphone 11 I rung my neurologists medical secretary to discuss and she asked me to email the issues to her and she would forward it on as he always welcomes more unique scenarios. My condition NDPH is more often than not triggered by a bout of illness/covid or by a trauma such as a car crash etc.

Before long everyone will be using OLED. Take for instance my parents and grandparents, all using iphone 8's/11's simply due to handset cost. Sooner or later they will change phones and opt for an OLED model, every day that passes more people will have their eyes meet an OLED for the first time.

Appreciate hardly anyone that suffers PWM ends up under the care or a neurologist but now I have my email written I am wondering whether to send it out to other specialists I can find on the net. Suppose it could fall into the lap of a student wanting to write a dissertation on the matter or for it to be brought up in meetings with other specialists around the world.

Any exposure is good exposure right?

Curious as the iPhone 11 issues with iOS 17? - what time of symptoms are you getting, classic pwm tension headaches eye strain?

 

[DJTaurus]

Curious as the iPhone 11 issues with iOS 17? - what time of symptoms are you getting, classic pwm tension headaches eye strain?

None of these at least for me. It’s just that i get more easily tired than before

 

[iLuddite]

Took a trip to the Apple Store to return my PRODUCT(RED) SE almost a week ago (Oct. 21) for a base-storage yellow iPhone 15. The SE really is a great device but the display's low pixel density coupled with the relatively short battery life prompted me to somewhat impuslively take advantage on the last day of its return window.

All in all, I am quite happy with how this little gamble turned out. The iPhone 15's display is more comfortable for me than that of my previous and much-beloved 13 mini and I am experiencing what seems like no symptoms whatsoever from its PWM (whereas the mini's would regularly induce a sharp and viscerally irritating "biting" sensation). I do miss the smaller size and lower weight of the SE and especially of the mini, but I am solidly pleased with just about every other aspect of this new device.

After almost immediately returning a 14 Pro last year due to how badly its ProMotion made me want to pop a Dramamine coupled with the fact that I always run my iPhones in Low Power Mode (and thus 60Hz on ProMotion models) when away from the house—as well as how startlingly comfortable this 15 is to look at—I'm confident I've made the right choice. And as iPhone LCDs seem to be going the way of the dodo, I do hope Apple's non-ProMotion OLEDs remain available and continue improving in the coming generations.

 

[martin2345uk]

It all just seems so totally random. Some people can handle the 12, some the 13, some the 15PM... some cant handle any of them... I could handle the 14 but not the 15+ or the 14+...

There must be sooooo much variation in these displays...!


Actually looking at my own message there I wonder if for me it's the larger screen size that affects me and maybe 15 Standard would be possible...

 

[dstow]

Right, little update for you guys:

iPhone 15 Plus has been returned after 14 Days of daily usage with default usage, no PWM adjustments made

All in all the best OLED experience I've had so far with any iPhone

PWM Symptoms whilst still present were greatly watered down compared with the 15 Pro especially with Pro-Motion enabled which caused intense head pressure and tightness at the back of my head akin to having your flesh pulled apart in medieval rack whilst simultaneously being cooked from the inside.

The 15 Plus with it's diminished 60Hz PWM punishment still wasn't totally combatable for daily use and instilled a sense of paranoia and distrust of the device, with a huge 6.7" dazzlingly bright display tantamount to a large rectangle strobe light being blasted into your eyes all day and night can't be good long term.

So, you might be asking - what have I replaced it with? an iPhone 11! Yes, the trusty workhorse of the PWM afflicted.

However, after being reunited with this relic after wiping off the ancient sands from it's box like Jumanji to reveal it's distant but familiar form factor I've been immediately reminded of it's many shortcomings, those least of which being the abysmal battery life on iOS 17.1 - Brand New Handset - 100% Battery Health, charged to 100% and within a mere 2 hours of light use on 4G out and about it's dropped over 20% - Looks like I'm not permitted to leave my house for the foreseeable future without a battery pack shoved down my trousers dare I take a gander at MacRumors on public transport.

Second, the screen - Oh, glorious PWM Free LCD IPS how I've missed you so! - Well, guess what - in a cruel twist of bitter irony I've been experiencing immediate eye-strain and rear head pain using the iPhone 11 again

I don't know whether to laugh or cry in utter despair.

As a few others have pointed out, something has changed with iOS 17, and I can confirm that.

Holding the 15 Plus side by side to the 11 really highlights the superiority of OLED displays despite their eye punishment. The colour, contrast, response time is unparalleled to Apples incredibly dated IPS LCD displays, I don't blame them for moving away, it's only logical given the overwhelming technical superiority and battery savings despite the forsaken few of us here that are effected by the PWM

The 11's screen whilst well calibrated in terms of colour accuracy, the horrible response times of the LCD display make it unusable as everything is a huge smeary mess of pixel ghost trails, I just can't unsee it after being exposed to the 15 Plus's gorgeous OLED panel for the last 2 weeks

So, where does that leave me now? - In a final desperate attempt to escape this 2019 Prison, I'm going to take advantage of Apples upcoming Christmas return period and snag the regular iPhone 15 as @iLuddite experience seems to be a positive result and given my 15 Plus experience it's my last lifeboat off this sinking ship. If it comes down to it I will have to FORCE myself to stick with it till next years inevitable disappointment with the 16 series, as the iPhone 11 cannot be trusted anymore and is causing PWM headache symptoms with no benefit with all the downsides of a device that should be forever relegated to the pre-COVID world where it belongs.

 

[now i see it]

and instilled a sense of paranoia and distrust of the device,

That pretty much sums up my feelings about any OLED phone.

I’m telling the gang right now, the only safe iPhone to use right now is the 6S Plus on iOS 15.

 

[DJTaurus]

Right, little update for you guys:

iPhone 15 Plus has been returned after 14 Days of daily usage with default usage, no PWM adjustments made

All in all the best OLED experience I've had so far with any iPhone

PWM Symptoms whilst still present were greatly watered down compared with the 15 Pro especially with Pro-Motion enabled which caused intense head pressure and tightness at the back of my head akin to having your flesh pulled a medieval rack whilst simultaneously being cooked from the inside.

The 15 Plus with it's diminished 60Hz PWM punishment still wasn't totally combatable for daily use and instilled a sense of paranoia and distrust of the device, with a huge 6.7" dazzlingly bright display tantamount to a large rectangle strobe light being blasted into your eyes all day and night can't be good long term.

So, you might be asking - what have I replaced it with? an iPhone 11! Yes, the trusty workhorse of the PWM afflicted.

However, after being reunited with this relic after wiping off the ancient sands from it's box like Jumanji to reveal it's distant but familiar form factor I've been immediately reminded of it's many shortcomings, those least of which being the abysmal battery life on iOS 17.1 - Brand New Handset - 100% Battery Health, charged to 100% and within a mere 2 hours of light use on 4G out and about it's dropped over 20% - Looks like I'm not permitted to leave my house for the foreseeable future without a battery pack shoved down my trousers dare I take a gander at MacRumors on public transport.

Second, the screen - Oh, glorious PWM Free LCD IPS how I've missed you so! - Well, guess what - in a cruel twis.t of bitter irony I've been experiencing immediate eye-strain and rear head pain using the iPhone 11 again

I don't know whether to laugh or cry in utter despair.

View attachment 2303064

As a few others have pointed out, something has changed with iOS 17, and I can confirm that.

Holding the 15 Plus side by side to the 11 really highlights the superiority of OLED displays despite their eye punishment. The colour, contrast, response time is unparalleled to Apples incredibly dated IPS LCD displays, I don't blame them for moving away, it's only logical given the overwhelming technical superiority and battery savings despite the forsaken few of us here that are effected by the PWM

The 11's screen whilst well calibrated in terms of colour accuracy, the horrible response times of the LCD display make it unusable as everything is a huge smeary mess of pixel ghost trails, I just can't unsee it after being exposed to the 15 Plus's gorgeous OLED panel for the last 2 weeks

So, where does that leave me now? - In a final desperate attempt to escape this 2019 Prison, I'm going to take advantage of Apples upcoming Christmas return period and snag the regular iPhone 15 as @iLuddite experience seems to be a positive result and given my 15 Plus experience it's my last lifeboat off this sinking ship. If it comes down to it I will have to FORCE myself to stick with it till next years inevitable disappointment with the 16 series, as the iPhone 11 cannot be trusted anymore and is causing PWM headache symptoms with no benefit with all the downsides of a device that should be forever relegated to the pre-COVID world where it belongs.

Give 15 a try then. Better experience for me than plus.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I’ve kept my 11 on 16.7 with all of this negative iOS 17 talk. 😧

 

[Heman87]

I’ve kept my 11 on 16.7 with all of this negative iOS 17 talk. 😧

I’m using my 11 on iOS 17. No issues here. I also bought an iPhone 15pro max. I was super excited with the 15pm. I had no dizziness whatsoever. My eyes got little irritated. But I thought I could get used to it. And I could even use the pro motion display with no issue. In the past I felt dizzy using the promotion display. I used the pm with only brightness above 50% and sometimes enabled RWP and it was fine. This is my 4th day with the promax and my eyes are burning. I’m going to keep trying this phone. Because I think it’s because I used the phone at night when I couldn’t sleep. The brightness was almost minimal. I think that’s why my eyes are destroyed. And I really want to use this phone. It’s so beautiful and smooth. My 11 is slowly dying.

 

[now i see it]

This is my 4th day with the promax and my eyes are burning.

I've completely given up on modern iPhones - because of their damn flickering screens. I just purchased an "Excellent quality" iPhone 6s Plus which I'll get in 2 days.

 

[1369281]

I’ve kept my 11 on 16.7 with all of this negative iOS 17 talk. 😧

FWIW, I have not noticed any difference between iOS 16 and iOS 17. I'd deem it safe to anyone who is worried, but that's just my experience.

I've completely given up on modern iPhones - because of their damn flickering screens. I just purchased an "Excellent quality" iPhone 6s Plus which I'll get in 2 days.

Will Apple still replace batteries for iPhone 6S Plus? I would do that right away, if possible.

 

[DJTaurus]

I've completely given up on modern iPhones - because of their damn flickering screens. I just purchased an "Excellent quality" iPhone 6s Plus which I'll get in 2 days.

Why not 11 ?

 

[now i see it]

Will Apple still replace batteries for iPhone 6S Plus? I would do that right away, if possible.

Yes. Mail in $69

 

[now i see it]

Why not 11 ?

I purchased a “mint” iPhone 11 a few weeks ago and I can’t tolerate the dithering — if that’s what’s going on. Such a disappointment. I’m also not a fan of the “low resolution “ display of 326ppi vs the sharper 401ppi screen of the Plus. I also had to get rid of my 8 Plus because of whatever is causing the same thing. To my eyes, those screens seem to almost shimmer. Obviously most people can’t detect it.
It really bothers me a lot. Gives me heart arrhythmia.

Conversely, my super slow 6 Plus on iOS 12 doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve been using it for 8 years extensively, and it has been the most eye friendly, nervous system friendly display I’ve ever used in my life. Zero issues.
My hope is that the 6S Plus will have the same display tech.
Starting with the iPhone 7,  started messing with LCD tech (dithering) so the 7 Plus is not an option either.

All apps currently will run on iOS 15 this year (where iPhone 6S has hit the limit) and after that they’ll start requiring iOS 16. But that’s next year. I need something I can use now.

 

[DJTaurus]

I purchased a “mint” iPhone 11 a few weeks ago and I can’t tolerate the dithering — if that’s what’s going on. Such a disappointment. I’m also not a fan of the “low resolution “ display of 326ppi vs the sharper 401ppi screen of the Plus. I also had to get rid of my 8 Plus because of whatever is causing the same thing. To my eyes, those screens seem to almost shimmer. Obviously most people can’t detect it.
It really bothers me a lot. Gives me heart arrhythmia.

Conversely, my super slow 6 Plus on iOS 12 doesn’t bother me at all. I’ve been using it for 8 years extensively, and it has been the most eye friendly, nervous system friendly display I’ve ever used in my life. Zero issues.
My hope is that the 6S Plus will have the same display tech.
Starting with the iPhone 7,  started messing with LCD tech (dithering) so the 7 Plus is not an option either.

All apps currently will run on iOS 15 this year (where iPhone 6S has hit the limit) and after that they’ll start requiring iOS 16. But that’s next year. I need something I can use now.

I have to agree.

1)resolution on 11 is lacking. It’s evident. Text is not super clear.
2)it’s also evident that when it raises temperature it becomes kinda laggy and screen dims by a lot

 

[MICHAELSD]

For those keeping track, I boxed up the Motorola Razr+.

While it was a more usable experience overall than any OLED iPhone, particularly while actively using the device over longer periods, it still caused some PWM sensitivity and a degree of tension headaches later on.

Flicker prevention seemed to make the device easier to focus on, which then oddly leads to more headaches. DC dimming still exhibits flickering, and in this case the modulations are above 8% with the setting enabled. Text isn’t an enjoyable reading experience on nearly any portable device with an OLED display.

It did make me giddy the first time I started using Apple Music on the Razr+, and even closed it into a seamless transition into the outer display as if it were a foldable iPhone. The app works relatively well, better than the experience of using it on iPhone SE besides the Android app being more buggy, and Android isn’t as inconvenient as I thought it would be in practical use. However, it did hurt not having CarPlay or even a way to play USB-C audio through a non-compatible vehicle. Lossless via CarPlay is bliss.

On the flip side, the experience with headphones was spectacular. There is definitely a difference, more so than expected, using the LDAC codec on Audeze’s Mobius headphones with Apple Music. Even the Beats headphones I tested sounded really good and virtually indistinguishable from the Bluetooth performance of an iPhone, with both capped at AAC.

That leaves me curious about trying iPhone 15, but pessimistic and lacking options beyond testing a higher-frequency PWM display or a more modern Android with an LCD display—which doesn’t seem worth the trade off of having Android and an LCD.

So, I’m walking away from the Razr+ with a more positive perspective on Android and an enthusiasm about folding/flipping smartphones. Even the takeaway that there could be better options as far as PWM outside of iOS.

Also, the Snapdragon 8 gen 1 wasn’t perfectly smooth even just navigating through the user interface. The camera sensor was better but Apple has much better computational photography to the point iPhone SE competes with the Motorola Razr+.

Nonetheless, I’m more or less back where I started with a cracked iPhone SE that I want to upgrade.

I have some theories about why we’re PWM-sensitive and how using devices that cause sensitivity could make us more susceptible to further sensitivities in the future. If I didn’t try so desperately to use iPhone X maybe I would be able to use iPhone 15 or the Motorola Razr+. It’s also possible that could be a faulty hypothesis, which I’ll get into at a later time.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I have to agree.

1)resolution on 11 is lacking. It’s evident. Text is not super clear.
2)it’s also evident that when it raises temperature it becomes kinda laggy and screen dims by a lot

iPhone SE is at least up to the A15 Bionic, 5G connectivity, and shares the same PPI. I get wanting the more modern design and better cameras, but at this point iPhone SE is the only LCD iPhone I would recommend buying.

 

[DJTaurus]

iPhone SE is at least up to the A15 Bionic, 5G connectivity, and shares the same PPI. I get wanting the more modern design and better cameras, but at this point iPhone SE is the only LCD iPhone I would recommend buying.

I hope next iPad mini to still be LCD so to couple it with a SE.

 

[DJTaurus]

For those keeping track, I boxed up the Motorola Razr+.

While it was a more usable experience overall than any OLED iPhone, particularly while actively using the device over longer periods, it still caused some PWM sensitivity and a degree of tension headaches later on.

Flicker prevention seemed to make the device easier to focus on, which then oddly leads to more headaches. DC dimming still exhibits flickering, and in this case the modulations are above 8% with the setting enabled. Text isn’t an enjoyable reading experience on nearly any portable device with an OLED display.

It did make me giddy the first time I started using Apple Music on the Razr+, and even closed it into a seamless transition into the outer display as if it were a foldable iPhone. The app works relatively well, better than the experience of using it on iPhone SE besides the Android app being more buggy, and Android isn’t as inconvenient as I thought it would be in practical use. However, it did hurt not having CarPlay or even a way to play USB-C audio through a non-compatible vehicle. Lossless via CarPlay is bliss.

On the flip side, the experience with headphones was spectacular. There is definitely a difference, more so than expected, using the LDAC codec on Audeze’s Mobius headphones with Apple Music. Even the Beats headphones I tested sounded really good and virtually indistinguishable from the Bluetooth performance of an iPhone, with both capped at AAC.

That leaves me curious about trying iPhone 15, but pessimistic and lacking options beyond testing a higher-frequency PWM display or a more modern Android with an LCD display—which doesn’t seem worth the trade off of having Android and an LCD.

So, I’m walking away from the Razr+ with a more positive perspective on Android and an enthusiasm about folding/flipping smartphones. Even the takeaway that there could be better options as far as PWM outside of iOS.

Also, the Snapdragon 8 gen 1 wasn’t perfectly smooth even just navigating through the user interface. The camera sensor was better but Apple has much better computational photography to the point iPhone SE competes with the Motorola Razr+.

Nonetheless, I’m more or less back where I started with a cracked iPhone SE that I want to upgrade.

I have some theories about why we’re PWM-sensitive and how using devices that cause sensitivity could make us more susceptible to further sensitivities in the future. If I didn’t try so desperately to use iPhone X maybe I would be able to use iPhone 15 or the Motorola Razr+. It’s also possible that could be a faulty hypothesis, which I’ll get into at a later time.

Out of curiosity why didn’t you try Motorola edge plus which has a better PWM reception ?

 

[MICHAELSD]

Out of curiosity why didn’t you try Motorola edge plus which has a better PWM reception ?

Motorola Razr+ seemed way cooler.

On that note, the Edge Plus does have a newer Snapdragon processor and better cameras. I could give up the folding form factor to have a glass display instead of a plastic screen protector.

I don’t want to continue returning Motorola devices either. But I am by the far the most cognizant and this Razr+ will be considered Grade-A/like-new condition. As far as PWM sensitivity the Edge is supposed to be better, and that is my main reason for trying these devices: to have a modern smartphone that doesn’t cause any headaches whatsoever. The goal realistically should be that it feels as comfortable as a device that causes no sensitivity, such as an iPhone SE, in all lighting conditions and usage scenarios.

 

[1369281]

Some deal updates for people looking for non-PWM iPhones:

iPhone SE (3rd Gen) is $149 at Walmart. The catch is it is locked to Straight Talk Wireless. However, if you activate service for one month and then wait until 61 days total as passed, the phone becomes automatically unlocked, and you can bring the phone to any carrier.

iPhone SE (2nd Gen) is $99 at Walmart. Same deal. 61 days.

iPhone 11 is $199 (in-store only, or $249 online) at Walmart. Same deal. 61 days.

The phones are brand new. I've purchased multiple of both for family members and myself (as a backup phone). Works perfectly.

 

[pwm away]

Has anyone tried the Pixel 8 Pro yet?

Google won't tell me why the Pixel 8 Pro doesn't make me sick

Funny to see the no comment attitude. I’ve always thought that, even if Apple/Google/Samsung were to improve/fix this, none of them would deliberately advertise it.