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Are you experiencing this issue?


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Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
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If brightness is always at 90-100% isn’t it fine ?
I don’t know what you mean… with the privacy screen protector you say? I don’t know, I don’t have one of those. With the matte screen protector it doesn’t matter the brightness, it blurs a bit the image and decreases the crispness of this gorgeous LCD display.
 
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Drj44

macrumors newbie
Dec 21, 2017
7
7
Hi Jimmy!
Is there any confirmation or refutation of information about this, did Apple apply temporal dithering in IOS17 for Iphone 11?

I bought Apple watch Ultra 2, and it requires IOS17 to connect with my 11, so I have same fear of it.
I have upgraded my iPhone 11 to ios17 and had no eye strain problem. On the other hand I could not use the iPhone X or the 14 pro
 
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jimmy_uk

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2015
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You have no strain because the iPhone 11 uses a different display, not because of the OS. iPhone 11 is good; other phones not.
Software drives the hardware, if Apple makes changes at the OS level it can have an effect. Take the Airpod Pro gen 1 for example, Apple continually adjusted the software which had a negative effect on the ANC according to many user reports.

Some have posted on Reddit and other forums that after upgrading to iOS 17, their LCD products like the iP11 were uncomfortable to view, similar to OLED eye strain. It’s anecdotal information, but was enough for me to not upgrade the OS until further reports as we can no longer downgrade back to 16.

Could be colour adjustments, refresh rates, animation changes, dithering etc. Just because it's an LCD iPhone doesn't mean OS changes have not introduced eye strain elements for the sensitive folk. It's also possible there have been no negative changes
 
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MICHAELSD

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Jul 13, 2008
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Why don’t we just fix this and then it’s no longer an issue and we can all move on? It must be on a list of priorities for the display team to address, eventually.

I saw an article about how Apple will treat the iPhone as iterative and that it’s unlikely for significant generational design changes at this point. Now that we’re reaching the peak version of this design, they’ll have more incentive to address TLM/PWM as part of creating the ultimate iPhone.
 

MICHAELSD

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Jul 13, 2008
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Regardless, I’ll continue posting my experience with iPhone 15 Plus.

This would rank as my best PWM-related experience, by far, while not being problem-free and still causing some degree of sensitivity. Significantly better than iPhone 15 Pro, iPhone 14, or iPhone 13. Yet, I’m still not attached and I am willing to hold out for a symptom-free iPhone.

Edit: There are also some persistent headaches, although they’re nowhere near the level of what I experienced with iPhone X. I tend to post about my newer iPhone experiences with rose-colored glasses, and there have certainly been measurable improvements over the past few years, particularly on iPhone 15 Plus, but they need to do a larger push for high frequencies/low modulations or no TLM.
 
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Gargamelus

macrumors member
Sep 28, 2022
41
67
15/plus isn't perfect, but it's the best deal. pro/Max models are very bad. Flicker measurements confirm this. 13/14/15/ pMax are torture for the eyes
 
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MICHAELSD

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15/plus isn't perfect, but it's the best deal. pro/Max models are very bad. Flicker measurements confirm this. 13/14/15/ pMax are torture for the eyes
Yes, as the measurements would indicate iPhone 15 Plus is dramatically better than iPhone 15 Pro. I’m staring at the display with minimal headaches, and remarkably negligible-to-no behind-the-eye throbbing, which even iPhone 13 mini was not immune to constantly causing. That being said, I’m skeptical that it doesn’t have the capability for more typical symptoms and/or migraines, but my experience has gotten better since using it as intended with auto-brightness. Locking the display brightness to 75%-100% with RWP at 80-90% when I initially set it up was close to problem-free in short bursts, but not practical or enough of a difference to add the strain of staring at an excessively bright display.

I’ve thought about my previous statement, and in retrospect it seems like syncing the frequency to the refresh rate in exchange for lower modulations works better for me. Even the 14” MacBook Pro with a relatively high ~ 15,000Hz frequency was a painful experience. I’m speculating here, but 60Hz-120Hz with consistent .75% modulations may be the key to a sort of solution, although that’s also technically real DC dimming according to my understanding of OLED.
 

patent10021

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2004
3,531
810
Software drives the hardware, if Apple makes changes at the OS level it can have an effect. Take the Airpod Pro gen 1 for example, Apple continually adjusted the software which had a negative effect on the ANC according to many user reports.

Some have posted on Reddit and other forums that after upgrading to iOS 17, their LCD products like the iP11 were uncomfortable to view, similar to OLED eye strain. It’s anecdotal information, but was enough for me to not upgrade the OS until further reports as we can no longer downgrade back to 16.

Could be colour adjustments, refresh rates, animation changes, dithering etc. Just because it's an LCD iPhone doesn't mean OS changes have not introduced eye strain elements for the sensitive folk. It's also possible there have been no negative changes
If you use a MacBook Air you'll be staring at an LCD panel. The iPhone 11 also uses a Liquid Retina HD display, which is a type of LCD display not OLED. Same with the 11" iPad Pro. Health-wise, no software is going to make the effect of looking at the LCD worse or better. It's pretty much black and white. If you don't use OLED you won't have any ill effects, if you do use OLED, you may be affected and you maybe be affected greatly.
 
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PwmMen

macrumors regular
Oct 2, 2021
207
534
For me, the iPhone 15 Pro Max is still a blessing after the past few years.
The iPhone 15 and the iPhone 15 Plus made me eye pain and discomfort.
The iPhone 15 Pro Max is perfect. Look on display for 2-3 hours, I don't feel uncomfortable.
 
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Evilxardas

macrumors member
Dec 5, 2019
57
49
I received an iphone 15 last night with ios 17.1.1 and it is very bad. I have the sensation of not being able to stay focused on the text and then the usual migraine problem. Same problem with 13 pro and 14 pro.
I'm currently using Iphone X with IOS 14 which is perfect but starting to get old.
 
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MICHAELSD

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For me, the iPhone 15 Pro Max is still a blessing after the past few years.
The iPhone 15 and the iPhone 15 Plus made me eye pain and discomfort.
The iPhone 15 Pro Max is perfect. Look on display for 2-3 hours, I don't feel uncomfortable.
They must have dialed into the specific frequency that your brain finds imperceptible. Everyone is individual. Most flickering displays, even my friend’s Samsung LED TV with 960Hz PWM, don’t bother me. I’d be curious and it could be useful to know exactly what about it makes it different than the previous generations.

I received an iphone 15 last night with ios 17.1.1 and it is very bad. I have the sensation of not being able to stay focused on the text and then the usual migraine problem. Same problem with 13 pro and 14 pro.
I'm currently using Iphone X with IOS 14 which is perfect but starting to get old.
I’m not sure why exactly either, but iPhone 15 Plus has been the best OLED in terms of sensitivity I’ve experienced, even if I’m typing this on my primary iPhone SE. I’ve thought about swapping to another iPhone like the smaller iPhone 15, but the frequencies seem like they could be quite different.

If we’re reaching the peak version of this flagship modern iPhone design, I’m also learning how to live without it and don’t mind iPhone SE as much.
 
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john g.

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2012
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I’m not sure why exactly either, but iPhone 15 Plus has been the best OLED in terms of sensitivity I’ve experienced, even if I’m typing this on my primary iPhone SE. I’ve thought about swapping to another iPhone like the smaller iPhone 15, but the frequencies seem like they could be quite different.
Just curious, are you using a screen protector with the 15 Plus?
 

Populus

macrumors 603
Aug 24, 2012
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Spain, Europe
They must have dialed into the specific frequency that your brain finds imperceptible. Everyone is individual. Most flickering displays, even my friend’s Samsung LED TV with 960Hz PWM, don’t bother me. I’d be curious and it could be useful to know exactly what about it makes it different than the previous generations.


I’m not sure why exactly either, but iPhone 15 Plus has been the best OLED in terms of sensitivity I’ve experienced, even if I’m typing this on my primary iPhone SE. I’ve thought about swapping to another iPhone like the smaller iPhone 15, but the frequencies seem like they could be quite different.

If we’re reaching the peak version of this flagship modern iPhone design, I’m also learning how to live without it and don’t mind iPhone SE as much.
The SE 3 is an outstanding smartphone if you don’t mind the aged design. I’m loving it and I’m even considering getting a second one to store it for the moment that my current SE 3 dies or gets its screen badly scratched.
 

jimmy_uk

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Oct 19, 2015
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If you use a MacBook Air you'll be staring at an LCD panel. The iPhone 11 also uses a Liquid Retina HD display, which is a type of LCD display not OLED. Same with the 11" iPad Pro. Health-wise, no software is going to make the effect of looking at the LCD worse or better. It's pretty much black and white. If you don't use OLED you won't have any ill effects, if you do use OLED, you may be affected and you maybe be affected greatly.
Software controls the display driver. Software controls the brightness. Software controls every pixel you see. LCD can cause eye fatigue/strain. How would you explain other people's negative reports of eye issues with the MBA 13” M1 & M2, iPhone 8 Plus/XR/11/SE? I suggest we might just have to agree to disagree.

FYI I can use the iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 11, iPad 9 and the Studio display (with software adjustment). I cannot use any other LCD iPad or the iPhone SE 2022 🤷‍♂️, any OLED iPhone, Mini LED iPad Pro or MacBook Pro.
 
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MICHAELSD

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Jul 13, 2008
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If Apple continues lowering modulations then I’m growing increasingly confident that we will at least have a viable OLED iPhone to use for general purposes, although not necessarily extended periods. Ironically they may continue to target lower modulations on the standard iPhone’s and the new OLED iPhone SE, whereas no flickering should be a Pro feature in theory.

iPhone 15 Plus isn’t yet approaching LCD levels in terms of supreme comfort, but it has the least behind-the-eye throbbing of any OLED iPhone to date for me personally.
 
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Gargamelus

macrumors member
Sep 28, 2022
41
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Reddit comments say the same thing. 15 plus is the only option for sensitive people. Modulation is ok at 70% brightness☠️
 

john g.

macrumors 6502
Jul 11, 2012
408
742
Reddit comments say the same thing. 15 plus is the only option for sensitive people. Modulation is ok at 70% brightness☠️
Just curious, has anyone experienced that the 15 Plus is likely to be better tolerated than the regular 15?

For them of course, I know there's no one size fits all here.
 

jimmy_uk

macrumors 68020
Oct 19, 2015
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the first line though….

IMG_8387.jpeg
 

tabbasco

macrumors newbie
Dec 24, 2023
1
0
FYI I can use the iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 11, iPad 9 and the Studio display (with software adjustment). I cannot use any other LCD iPad or the iPhone SE 2022 🤷‍♂️, any OLED iPhone, Mini LED iPad Pro or MacBook Pro.
I am currently using an iPhone 7 and an iPad 9 without any problems.
Now I have ordered an SE 2022 and have the same problem.
I fear that at some point soon the first apps on the iPhone 7 will refuse to update. I could still test the iPhone 11, but it's actually too big for me and will probably only be supported for another 2 years.

What's your plan when 7 and 11 no longer do it?
 
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