Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[patent10021]

Software controls the display driver. Software controls the brightness. Software controls every pixel you see. LCD can cause eye fatigue/strain. How would you explain other people's negative reports of eye issues with the MBA 13” M1 & M2, iPhone 8 Plus/XR/11/SE? I suggest we might just have to agree to disagree.

FYI I can use the iPhone 7 Plus, iPhone 11, iPad 9 and the Studio display (with software adjustment). I cannot use any other LCD iPad or the iPhone SE 2022 🤷‍♂️, any OLED iPhone, Mini LED iPad Pro or MacBook Pro.

I agree with you, but without the display we don't have a discussion. It is these displays that require PWM. Pulse width modulation is not a problem on devices using LCD. There might be some people who are sensitive to various brightness settings etc when using LCDs, but the global issue with these OLED displays and the reason for websites like www.notebookcheck.net is because of OLED + PWM.

 

[!!!]

but upon bringing it up to Apple Store employees in the past year

When I returned my 14 Pro the Apple Store employee insisted it was due to ProMotion, and didn't understand the difference between display refresh and PWM.

I've been using high refresh rate displays for many years, 165Hz for my gaming rig and 144 for my Mac. Never had any issues staring at them while working all day. Or playing games.

 

[!!!]

6yrs. 400 pages. On our way to 10k posts 😵‍💫

Pretty soon we'll have to rename the thread to "A new LCD iPhone is almost certainly coming"

...as I recall the "joy" of the Mac mini and Mac Pro forums. Can't wait for the iMac Pro thread to start up.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I agree with you, but without the display we don't have a discussion. It is these displays that require PWM. Pulse width modulation is not a problem on devices using LCD. There might be some people who are sensitive to various brightness settings etc when using LCDs, but the global issue with these OLED displays and the reason for websites like www.notebookcheck.net is because of OLED + PWM.

But you're missing the point. It isn’t just Apple’s implementation of OLED with PWM that is the problem. Until you also take into account what they are doing in software, dithering, resolution, colours etc we won’t ever get a comfortable and safe device - LCD or OLED. The thread has "Eye strain" in the title. 🤷‍♂️

And notebookcheck is a technology site first that happens to measure PWM and dithering (sometimes).

 

[MICHAELSD]

But you're missing the point. It isn’t just Apple’s implementation of OLED with PWM that is the problem. Until you also take into account what they are doing in software, dithering, resolution, colours etc we won’t ever get a comfortable and safe device - LCD or OLED. The thread has "Eye strain" in the title. 🤷‍♂️

And notebookcheck is a technology site first that happens to measure PWM and dithering (sometimes).

For me personally and I think the widest group of sensitive users, it’s more or less exclusively due to PWM/TLM that we experience such profound headaches.

Any type of display flickering isn’t ideal, and for users such as yourself I would like to see Apple’s display team also move away from temporal dithering and other methods of displaying colors without doing so natively or naturally, so to speak. It’s getting too complicated, and Mini-LED is equally if not oddly more so bothersome than modern OLED’s.

 

[jimmy_uk]

For me personally and I think the widest group of sensitive users, it’s more or less exclusively due to PWM/TLM that we experience such profound headaches.

Any type of display flickering isn’t ideal, and for users such as yourself I would like to see Apple’s display team also move away from temporal dithering and other methods of displaying colors without doing so natively or naturally, so to speak. It’s getting too complicated, and Mini-LED is equally if not oddly more so bothersome than modern OLED’s.

Are you sure about that though?

Do you not think the combination of moving pixels = on/off and side to side is a contributing factor?

Even when notebookcheck say a device like the OLED iPhone doesn't show temporal dithering, anyone care to explain how an 8 bit+ display shows 10 bit colours (DSI P3 color gamut)?

It is getting complicated if we are also dividing into splinter groups. To focus on PWM and OLED exclusively is a mistake and not the theme of this thread. "Liquid Retina" LCD is also an issue. The common factor is Apples display drivers and their software implementation from the launch of iPhone X. Or maybe it's all just screen lottery after all?

Apple have clearly tinkered again this year and out of the hundreds of posts I’ve read, a total of 2 users who were previously intolerant (sensitive) can now use the new iPhones 🤷‍♂️. Those PWM frequency adjustments have really made a big difference....

Hasn't it already been mentioned that by asking the engineers to focus on PWM has in fact resulted in them doing that exact thing and has arguably made it worse. This is my interpretation of what's happened this year.

 

[Gargamelus]

I can't confirm what you wrote. not even from Russian forums. everyone has problems with OLED. I've never had a problem with LCD displays. But always with OLED up to 14 plus. The 14 plus was acceptable for me and the 15 plus was a little better. I think you are an extremely unique case.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Are you sure about that though?

Do you not think the combination of moving pixels = on/off and side to side is a contributing factor?

Even when notebookcheck say a device like the OLED iPhone doesn't show temporal dithering, anyone care to explain how an 8 bit+ display shows 10 bit colours (DSI P3 color gamut)?

It is getting complicated if we are also dividing into splinter groups. To focus on PWM and OLED exclusively is a mistake and not the theme of this thread. "Liquid Retina" LCD is also an issue. The common factor is Apples display drivers and their software implementation from the launch of iPhone X. Or maybe it's all just screen lottery after all?

Apple have clearly tinkered again this year and out of the hundreds of posts I’ve read, a total of 2 users who were previously intolerant (sensitive) can now use the new iPhones 🤷‍♂️. Those PWM frequency adjustments have really made a big difference....

Hasn't it already been mentioned that by asking the engineers to focus on PWM has in fact resulted in them doing that exact thing and has arguably made it worse. This is my interpretation of what's happened this year.

I’m incredibly sensitive to PWM-flickering OLED’s and even Mini-LED, but not to any of Apple’s Liquid Retina displays. Temporal dithering doesn’t seem to cause much noticeable strain for me personally.

My direct feedback to the engineers would be to figure out how to mitigate flickering down to LCD levels.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I can't confirm what you wrote. not even from Russian forums. everyone has problems with OLED. I've never had a problem with LCD displays. But always with OLED up to 14 plus. The 14 plus was acceptable for me and the 15 plus was a little better. I think you are an extremely unique case.

Spend some time searching on this forum, Reddit, ledstrain forum, etc. But sure, dismiss my comments - all of a sudden I'm talking about fringe issues. No person has ever mentioned issues with the Macbook Airs, iPhone SE/8/XR/11, iPads. Just OLED, the end. 🤯

As long as you've never had problems with LCD displays. I can find thousands of people who would say the same to you about OLED.

I genuinely thought we had gotten past the idea of talking up just PWM, especially with the injection of newer members bringing data and knowledge. Guess not.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Some of you who regularly post have been here with me since day one with the X. In the time since, I've changed my username twice, quit MR once, and couldn't get on with any of the OLED offerings. I've been on the 11 for what seems like forever and while it has been a godsend for me, it has aged so I decided to try the new 15s.

Typically for me, the worse symptoms I experience are eye strain, eye fatigue, frontal headaches, headaches in the back of the head, nausea, eye pain, etc. On a scale of 1-100 for comfortability with 100 being perfect, I would rate the iPhone X a 45 whereas I rate the iPhone 11 as a 95 (I am not sure I would give any phone a 100 to be honest). Here is what I experienced with the 15s fwiw.

iPhone 15 - Score 50. It didn't make me sick like the X, but I was slammed with all symptoms.
iPhone 15 Pro - Score 55. Basically, the same as the 15 but with slightly less nausea.
iPhone 15 Plus - Score 50. Miserable. Like the regular 15 I was slammed with all symptoms.
iPhone 15 Pro Max - Score 87

I have been using the Pro Max for 2 weeks and I can report zero headaches, zero nausea, zero eye pain. I do have some eye strain/fatigue if I am on it for a while in bed with the brightness at zero (still well bright enough for me to read on this thing). During that time, I am holding the phone quite near to my eyes at the lowest brightness level, so I guess I am not shocked I experience some discomfort then. I just see it as good reason not be on my phone before bed which tends to keep me awake anyways. This is unquestionably the most comfortable OLED display by far (for me).

It is not a perfect marriage. I would love to have another 95 rated phone like the 11. However, I had this phone with me on a recent trip to Canada where I was seldom near a charger and taking photos / videos at several concerts. Having this phone's cameras and battery life was quite nice. I am truly hoping to keep this phone. I have no idea what will happen when the 16 drops. I am sure I will try them but for now, I am just happy I can use this and be almost 90% happy. A bonus is that I did not have to challenge my convictions. I have maintained since day one that if I have to alter my phone to use it (adjust brightness, white point, other settings compromises, different screen protectors, etc.) it is not worth it to me. Fortunately, thus far I am fine without making any compromises short of reduced time on my phone in bed. I am not completely naive and understand I am not yet out of the woods. I have through January 8 to return it. Fingers crossed!!

 

[brig2221]

Some of you who regularly post have been here with me since day one with the X. In the time since, I've changed my username twice, quit MR once, and couldn't get on with any of the OLED offerings. I've been on the 11 for what seems like forever and while it has been a godsend for me, it has aged so I decided to try the new 15s.

Typically for me, the worse symptoms I experience are eye strain, eye fatigue, frontal headaches, headaches in the back of the head, nausea, eye pain, etc. On a scale of 1-100 for comfortability with 100 being perfect, I would rate the iPhone X a 45 whereas I rate the iPhone 11 as a 95 (I am not sure I would give any phone a 100 to be honest). Here is what I experienced with the 15s fwiw.

iPhone 15 - Score 50. It didn't make me sick like the X, but I was slammed with all symptoms.
iPhone 15 Pro - Score 55. Basically, the same as the 15 but with slightly less nausea.
iPhone 15 Plus - Score 50. Miserable. Like the regular 15 I was slammed with all symptoms.
iPhone 15 Pro Max - Score 87

I have been using the Pro Max for 2 weeks and I can report zero headaches, zero nausea, zero eye pain. I do have some eye strain/fatigue if I am on it for a while in bed with the brightness at zero (still well bright enough for me to read on this thing). During that time, I am holding the phone quite near to my eyes at the lowest brightness level, so I guess I am not shocked I experience some discomfort then. I just see it as good reason not be on my phone before bed which tends to keep me awake anyways. This is unquestionably the most comfortable OLED display by far (for me).

It is not a perfect marriage. I would love to have another 95 rated phone like the 11. However, I had this phone with me on a recent trip to Canada where I was seldom near a charger and taking photos / videos at several concerts. Having this phone's cameras and battery life was quite nice. I am truly hoping to keep this phone. I have no idea what will happen when the 16 drops. I am sure I will try them but for now, I am just happy I can use this and be almost 90% happy. A bonus is that I did not have to challenge my convictions. I have maintained since day one that if I have to alter my phone to use it (adjust brightness, white point, other settings compromises, different screen protectors, etc.) it is not worth it to me. Fortunately, thus far I am fine without making any compromises short of reduced time on my phone in bed. I am not completely naive and understand I am not yet out of the woods. I have through January 8 to return it. Fingers crossed!!

Posts like this give me hope. Like you, I purchased an iPhone X back in the day on a Friday and returned it back to the Apple Store the following Monday, it was AWFUL. Severe eye fatigue, headache, and even nausea, just awful.

About a year ago I finally broke down and got a company COU device and got an iPhone 12, knowing full well my issues with OLED displays. To my surprise, I didn't have any issues with the phone at all, which gave me hope that I might be able to move on from my iPhone 11 (that I've been clutching ever since the iPhone X debacle).

I waited until the iPhone 15 launched, read through this thread and others and came to the conclusion based on circumstantial reporting that the iPhone 15 Plus seemed to be the best phone for eye strain. I got it, and although it was much better than the iPhone X, it still gave me eye fatigue and a constant pain behind my eyes. Like you, I didn't want to screw with any setting and compromise, and I knew I couldn't live with the eye pain, so it took it back after 2 days.

I'm not sure how much longer my iPhone 11 will last. I just got the battery replaced, so I can probably keep it another 2 years, but I'm hoping for a miracle with the iPhone 16, that there will be a model I'll be able to tolerate and finally be able to upgrade to a current device. The funny thing is, I had an original iPhone and was one of those people that upgraded most years because I loved the technology, now I'm held prisoner by technology.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Wait what, how are two sensitive users able to use iPhone 15 Pro Max?

I’m personally getting sick of buying and returning iPhones, but this is great news for those who are able to use it with little-to-no eye strain.

As appealing as the design is, I haven’t gotten much use out of iPhone 15 Plus as I simply pick up iPhone SE a majority of the time. It’s still the best I’ve tried, but not perfect. I also don’t necessarily care enough anymore to go through the entire iPhone 15 lineup.

A ranking feels difficult since most iPhones OLED have been similar, but here goes:

1. iPhone 15 Plus
2. iPhone 14 Pro Max*
3. iPhone 13 mini*
4. iPhone 15 Pro*
5. iPhone 13*
6. iPhone 13 Pro*
7. iPhone 12 Pro Max**
8. iPhone X**

*indicates that the iPhone was unusable long-term, and caused immediate persistent sensitivity.

Even iPhone 15 Plus is straining after a few minutes, making watching videos impractical. But it exhibits the least behind-the-eye symptoms and persistent headaches of any modern iPhone I’ve tested. I think I would be happier overall with iPhone 15 Pro Max, but it seems like an impossibility for it to be usable as iPhone 15 Pro in retrospect wasn’t all that much better than previous iPhones, and caused much of the same symptoms especially at lower brightnesses. On the plus side, I haven’t run back to the Apple Store, quite literally, as I did with iPhone 15 Pro. But the experiences here do indicate the potential for iPhone 15 Pro Max to be different somehow.

 

[patent10021]

But you're missing the point. It isn’t just Apple’s implementation of OLED with PWM that is the problem. Until you also take into account what they are doing in software, dithering, resolution, colours etc we won’t ever get a comfortable and safe device - LCD or OLED. The thread has "Eye strain" in the title. 🤷‍♂️

And notebookcheck is a technology site first that happens to measure PWM and dithering (sometimes).

You're missing the point. It isn't just Apple. It's (all) manufacturers. That's why there are many monitors sold as "flicker-free" or "blue light filter" exist. These are display problems first. Without OLED we wouldn't be having discussions about physiological issues. The mere fact that software is needed to mitigate the effects of the limitations of OLED means OLED is a problem. You could say it's a system's problem if you look at it holistically, but the root problem is OLED.

Was the space shuttle explosion an O-ring problem? Well O-rings certainly contributed to the problem and was the root cause of the system failure. If the shuttle didn't need liquid nitrogen fuel rockets in the first place then we wouldn't need O-rings. Future rockets will run on other fuel sources other than liquid hydrogen such as an ion engine which won't require those O-rings.

Next-gen displays won't need software. Unfortunately, display tech is the slowest advancing of all.

 

[CocoPlops999]

Hello again!

Changed my iPhone 15 to a new 13 in the Apple Store and I stupidly upgraded to iOS 17, the eye pain / strain isn’t anywhere near as bad.

My original 13 that I traded in was updated to iOS 17 without any issues.

I purchased an older 13 on iOS 16 and I haven’t had any issues yet. When comparing both phones side to side the newer phone on 17 so considerly brighter.


Should I take a punt and upgrade to 17 on the older phone or stick at 16?

I’m returning the new iPhone 13 today.

Thanks in advance

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

I’ve just shelled out £429 for a new iPhone 11. My XR is a hot mess and the 80% battery health is doing my head in. I’d love a new iPhone but no one has given me much confidence in buying anything from the 15 range so I’d rather play it safe and buy a solid replacement, even if it is grossly outdated now.

Hopefully it can tie me over until Apple or any other brand finally brings out a phone that actually deals with PWM.

 

[iubnk]

I returned my iPhone X due to eyestrain and headaches and went back to LCD panel on 8, some time later switched to the iPhone 13 mini and there were no problems for me. Upgrading to the iPhone 15 Pro two months ago brought back subtle headaches. Turning off Attention Aware Features solved it—seems the constant flashing IR was the issue, not the OLED. Still using Face ID and Apple Pay without any problems. Hope this helps someone!

 

[MICHAELSD]

I returned my iPhone X due to eyestrain and headaches and went back to LCD panel on 8, some time later switched to the iPhone 13 mini and there were no problems for me. Upgrading to the iPhone 15 Pro two months ago brought back subtle headaches. Turning off Attention Aware Features solved it—seems the constant flashing IR was the issue, not the OLED. Still using Face ID and Apple Pay without any problems. Hope this helps someone!

I wish it was that easy. Back in iPhone X days some of us initially speculated that it was due to FaceID.

It’s almost impossible to gauge sensitivity in a retail setting. I had a free moment and checked out all of the iPhone 15’s. iPhone 15 seemed to be the best IMO, while iPhone 15 Pro Max was manageable but seemed like it had the potential to cause symptoms. Lowering the brightness from max on either display seemed to cause sensitivity. Then again I got instant sensitivity from a Galaxy Flip beforehand, so other smartphones could bias the results. The Motorola Razr base model is lacking in performance. However, I probably would have kept the Razr+ if it caused no sensitivity. I haven’t spent a ton of time on iPhone 15 Plus, but it does at least seem better than the average Android phone with an OLED display.

 

[Leindt]

Happy New Year to everyone! 🎉🎉🎉

Let's hope that this year will bring good surprises and good news 😂

 

[2mw2]

I wish it was that easy. Back in iPhone X days some of us initially speculated that it was due to FaceID.

It’s almost impossible to gauge sensitivity in a retail setting. I had a free moment and checked out all of the iPhone 15’s. iPhone 15 seemed to be the best IMO, while iPhone 15 Pro Max was manageable but seemed like it had the potential to cause symptoms. Lowering the brightness from max on either display seemed to cause sensitivity. Then again I got instant sensitivity from a Galaxy Flip beforehand, so other smartphones could bias the results. The Motorola Razr base model is lacking in performance. However, I probably would have kept the Razr+ if it caused no sensitivity. I haven’t spent a ton of time on iPhone 15 Plus, but it does at least seem better than the average Android phone with an OLED display.

Agree, the 15 seems to be most tolerable for me as well. I returned it anyway. I couldn't justify spending that much on phone that ultimately I had to compromise on - changing the screen accessibility options, putting up with a dim display in bright sunlight. Back to my trusty old SE3 for now

 

[CocoPlops999]

Would the low light filter in IOS zoom setting have an impact on PWM if I whacked the brightness up?


The difference at with it on at full brightness makes the screen feel much easier on the eyes.


Would this increase modulation?

Thanks in advance

 

[asrun]

Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max Display test

The Apple iPhone 15 Pro Max closely resembles its predecessor, sharing the fourth spot with the 14 Pro Max in our Display database.

www.dxomark.com

dxomark claims that 15 pro max's pwm is 240 Hz. As far as I know, 15 pro max's pwm is 480 Hz.
But dxomark says 14 pro max's pwm is 480 Hz. I know that 14 pro max's and 15 pro max's panels are the same then did dxomark make a mistake??

 

[PurpleIsAFruit]

I may be over 4 years late with this model, but I haver to say I'm rather liking the iPhone 11. 😆

I'm on iOS 17 but no issues for me like those reported by a few others.

Anyone know when the last security updates will be released for the 11? That's the point at which it will become worrying to still be on an 11 or older device.

 

[MICHAELSD]

Agree, the 15 seems to be most tolerable for me as well. I returned it anyway. I couldn't justify spending that much on phone that ultimately I had to compromise on - changing the screen accessibility options, putting up with a dim display in bright sunlight. Back to my trusty old SE3 for now

I’ve thought about trying the standard iPhone 15 as well. Unfortunately iPhone 15 Plus still causes tension headaches, and it’s not ever going to be practical or advisable to keep a device like this long-term.

The third-generation iPhone SE isn’t bad by any means. I’ll probably stick with it for another year.

 

[Gargamelus]

15 plus should be used at 75% brightness because of the low modulation depth in this range. White point at 80% then it's ok for me.. generally the bright white on OLED is too strenuous for the eyes..

 

[deka-]

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread for a few years now, ever since I bought a Pixel 4a and it killed my eyes and I realized it might be because of OLED so I returned it. After my Sony xz2 died, I finally switched to iPhone SE 2022 because it's the last LCD phone that isn't 2 meters tall on the market.

Anyway, I've been using the SE without any problem since last year, but since last month I'm getting strong eye-strain all day long. So I guess I'm in the iOS 17 victims list. Since I'm not in too much of a hurry to update to the last version every time, it's hard to say if it was 17.1 or later.

When checking the updates details ( https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213781 ), the only item that's related to screen is "Fixes an issue that may cause display image persistence" in the 17.1 update. But it's hard to see how that's relevant to our problem...

So I guess my questions are :
* Among users that are affected since iOS 17, do you know which version started it ?
* Is there any way to revert to iOS 16 to test it out again ?

Thank you, and keep up the investigative work !