This gives me optimism and of course congratulations to you on finding a perfect modern iPhone without eye strain, but I’ve barely even come 50% of the way to having a usable experience with any OLED iPhone. So the display driver would have to be extraordinarily better.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up
- Thread starter Kitkad
- WikiPost WikiPost
- Start date
-
- Tags
- eye strain xs max
- Sort by reaction score
- Status
The reason for this is that you are getting a slightly different muscle response to the screen for each eye and this is causing the tension headache/neck spasm. A really good optometrist can accommodate for this by using prism in your lens. I am working with mine to get this right. We don’t really have a choice - OLED and pwm is here to stay so we either find a way to adapt or we get stuck on old technology.
There are alternative therapies such as atropine eye drops which help to relax the eye muscles. This is what I’m going to experiment with next. If this works then maybe one can taper the dosage to allow the brain to get used to the flicker. It’s similar to getting used to a new pair of glasses - sometimes the brain needs a month or two to adjust.
Please keep us updated on how this works. I'm about 6 weeks in with prism glasses in hope of curing my screen issues. So far I can't say that it's made screens better but I understand it could take time.
Where did you hear about atropine from? I've seen countless eye specialists for my screen issues and nobody has mentioned this? On a possibly related note, for one of my recent visits they dilated my eyes. In hours following that appointment I borrowed a colleague's iPhone 15 Pro and could actually use it. On a typical day it would give me symptoms almost immediately.
If they dilated your eyes, they likely used atropine. It’s used typically to slow the progression of myopia in children. The other effect of atropine is that it paralyzes the eye muscles so it’s used in other painful eye conditions that cause inflammation of the muscles. It would then make sense that it will allow you to use an OLED screen because it’s the constant eye muscle stimulation that causes the headache.
I’m still intrigued as to why eye patching works. It’s not 100 percent comfortable but I can certainly use the 16 plus for hours on end with slight muscle tension in my neck. If I use both eyes, I get severe neck tension within 5 minutes and feel terribly ill for the rest of the day.
Maybe we could use Atropine drops in one eye and alternate. I’m going to give it a try next week when I’m off duty.
Ah, I didn't realize they used atropine to dilate eyes.
Is neck pain your only symptom? I get a weird "dizziness" and "nausea" (I put in quotes because it doesn't feel quite like standard dizziness and nausea), body warmth feeling and just really bad feeling of unease, also pressure feeling in my ear, and sometimes pain in my chest and my arm. It's really hard to describe.
A version of this also happens to me with previously perfectly good Apple LCD devices that are updated beyond iOS 16.1.1 (maybe slightly beyond that but it's hard to find devices to test at this point).
One other interested anecdote is that I tried the Apple Vision Pro thinking having a screen inches from both eyes would give me bad symptoms. Instead I seemed to have no issues from the Vision Pro. Being that it's two separate screens I wonder if it's similar to whatever is going on when you try patching.
I get very similar symptoms. It depends on the device. I couldn’t use the MacBook Pro miniled and that device has extremely high pwm. iPad Pro miniled also causes symptoms. All iPhones since iPhone X have been unusable.
The Vision Pro likely works because each eye is interpreting a different image and it doesn’t have to work in concert in your brain. In order to look at an iPhone OLED screen - this requires normal binocular vision. It has to do with how your eye muscles accommodate when looking at a screen. If you have one lazy eye, malalignment or astigmatism then the muscles in your eye have to contract or relax in order to focus on the image. If you’re using glasses with a negative correction (to correct your far vision), this means that your eye muscle has to work harder to correct close vision (screen). Slight malalignment compounds the effect and causes headache, tension, nausea etc. The optometrist will add in prism if you get headaches from close vision and a negative Lens. This is the only thing that helped me to get used to my glasses and use them all the time for far vision and close vision ( my correction is -0.5 on left and -0.25 on right).
Sounds very similar. I almost called 911 the day I opened my iPhone X because I didn't realize the symptoms were coming from the phone. Pretty much everything since then has been unusable for me as well.
What's interesting to me is that it doesn't seem like it's purely PWM that is the issue. As I've learned about PWM I realize it's in many "old" devices that don't give me the same problems. For example I recently found an old Samsung Galaxy III from ~2012 that doesn't seem to give me symptoms despite being OLED. I also have an Apple Watch Series 6 that doesn't give me symptoms (I've tested this by staring at it, holding it directly up to my eye, etc.). With "new" devices I get symptoms almost immediately (and like you I feel bad for hours afterwards).
The other mystery for me is what has happened with newer iOS versions to make previously good hardware become bad on LCD screens. My iPhone SE3 on 16.1.1 I can look at for literally hours with no issues at all. iPhone SE's with newer iOS I get symptoms immediately.
Hey guys, just another quick update on the recent iphones series.
It appears that Apple did ordered PWM 1920 hertz displays for the LTPO Pro models (and 1440 hertz for the regular/plus non-LTPO models).
Unfortunately, While the iphones OLED panels did have support for higher frequencies, Apple have severity limited it potiential.
I will illustrate why with the following.
Referring to DXOmark's on their flicker readings:
Iphone 16 pro max
As we can see, the above is like a slope that heads downwards from 240 to 1920 hertz. From here, the pattern suggest it is a 240 hertz quasi-sine wave. (think of it as a fake or a knock-off sine wave). This corresponded to the Opple graph readings we had. (1920 hertz), 480 hertz and 240 hertz respectively.
I will illustrate the correspond of iphone 16 pro's again below~
We can observe that the Apple might have decided to take another approach to utilize their supplied 1920 hertz. The 1920 hertz was configured to have extremely low modulation, and the 240 / 480 hertz was made to have high modulation.
I believe their rational behind is to prioritize OLED fragile lifespan over user's prolonged eye exposure (exact duration is subjective to individual).
Hypothetically speaking, had Apple decided to prioritize eye concern, they would have limited the higher modulation to 1920 hertz.
It would have been a true 1920 hertz.
Should someday Apple decided to unlock its potiential, our DXOmark's and Opple's graph would have looked like below, as illustrated:
(graph not drawn to scale)
Here is hoping that Apple can finally sort this out someday.
Cheers
It appears that Apple did ordered PWM 1920 hertz displays for the LTPO Pro models (and 1440 hertz for the regular/plus non-LTPO models).
Unfortunately, While the iphones OLED panels did have support for higher frequencies, Apple have severity limited it potiential.
I will illustrate why with the following.
Referring to DXOmark's on their flicker readings:
Iphone 16 pro max
As we can see, the above is like a slope that heads downwards from 240 to 1920 hertz. From here, the pattern suggest it is a 240 hertz quasi-sine wave. (think of it as a fake or a knock-off sine wave). This corresponded to the Opple graph readings we had. (1920 hertz), 480 hertz and 240 hertz respectively.
I will illustrate the correspond of iphone 16 pro's again below~
We can observe that the Apple might have decided to take another approach to utilize their supplied 1920 hertz. The 1920 hertz was configured to have extremely low modulation, and the 240 / 480 hertz was made to have high modulation.
I believe their rational behind is to prioritize OLED fragile lifespan over user's prolonged eye exposure (exact duration is subjective to individual).
Hypothetically speaking, had Apple decided to prioritize eye concern, they would have limited the higher modulation to 1920 hertz.
It would have been a true 1920 hertz.
Should someday Apple decided to unlock its potiential, our DXOmark's and Opple's graph would have looked like below, as illustrated:
(graph not drawn to scale)
Here is hoping that Apple can finally sort this out someday.
Cheers
Attachments
Last edited:
Guys, got ip 14 pro max - no problems at all, but can not figure out if ip 16 plus has same freq and modulatiin or different, can anyone help me find answer? Consider switching from 14 pro to regular 16/16 plus, but do not want lower freq pwm.
So you are saying if you could hack the iPhone and the PWM settings you could get very comfortable screen? Like Nick from Android central did with pixel 8.
Bingo 😉
Though I also wonder if anyone could hack into it and make the modifications, considering it is IOS and Apple.
I have been doing more research and I have found the diagnosis that most of us suffer with: trigeminal dysphoria. The symptoms are typical. Trigeminal nerve is being irritated by the screen. It can be treated so there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
Realme GT 7 Pro: Realme GT 7 Pro display detailed ahead of launch
It uses a Samsung panel, but the company says this new Samsung Eco² OLED Plus does the following:
There's also a picture that shows the difference between the 16 Pro Max, another, presumably high PWM rate, OLED Android phone, and the GT 7 Pro.
Seems to me like it's DC-like dimming though.
It uses a Samsung panel, but the company says this new Samsung Eco² OLED Plus does the following:
There's also a picture that shows the difference between the 16 Pro Max, another, presumably high PWM rate, OLED Android phone, and the GT 7 Pro.
Seems to me like it's DC-like dimming though.
I have 3 different pairs of prismatic glasses but none have solved my problem unfortunately. I also tried Neurolenss during a trip to the US but nothing....
The only workaround for me at this moment is the eye patch!
Interesting talk about atropine. What concentration are you thinking of using?
Anyway, the iphone 16 pro arrived but I haven't tried it yet because on Monday I picked up the temporary company car which is a ford focus 2023 and after an hour of driving my brain exploded. Yesterday I tried using it again by covering the two screens and I was sick anyway. Doing a slow motion video I realized that the backlighting of the various buttons uses PWM so maybe that is the problem..
The crazy thing is that my girlfriend was given a restyled Hyundai Tucson 2024 with the two 12.3” tablets and I've been driving her car for a month now with zero problems.
My final car will have to be a Toyota C-HR, hopefully it won't give me any problems.
My iPad Pro 11” M2, which I love way more than anticipated, is what confirms beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am only sensitive to display flickering and that Apple can create modern gorgeous displays I can use with 0% of an issue.
Unrelated to iPhones - not sure how exact you were about covering the screens but I rented a Land Rover Defender earlier this year and specifically for the center screen if even a TINY sliver of the screen was uncovered it made me sick.
That's interesting that a Hyundai doesn't bother you. I had figured there were no cars at this point with screens that wouldn't bother me.
I've found PWM (or something similar) has been used in cars for ages for backlighting and even some screens (tested many older vehicles that I have no issues with). But "something" else seems to be infecting a lot of modern displays in the same way it has on Apple products. There has to be someone out there who can explain it.
I used two towels but the screen behind the steering wheel was not covered perfectly! Some light was coming out of the edges. But even on the first day of use, without towels, I had noticed that if I covered the screen and the steering wheel in front of me by bringing a hand closer to my eyes, my whole face and eyes relaxed!
I am quite convinced that I need to cover the screen better and also the backlit buttons on the steering wheel.
However I agree with you, that it is not simply the use of PWM that is the problem, it is something more complex. My old car used PWM everywhere but never gave me any problems (2015 Lexus CT). My Iphone X as well, my old CCFL monitor also etc..
If you have to change cars I'll leave you a list of my experiences:
- Lexus NX 2023: I realized I was sick after 30/40 minutes of driving it.
- Ford Focus 2023: like the Lexus NX.
Recent cars I have driven without having migraine problems are:
- Hyundai Tucson 2024
- Cupra Formentor 2023: I have rented it 4 times and zero problems. Beware that the restyling came out and they changed the infotainment screen!
- Lexus UX: also no problems here. But beware that the last restyle they changed both screens so it would be worth trying again.
I have no problems with screens in cars.
We are currently driving an Audi Q3 Advance and the screens don't bother me.
I don't use them like I would a smartphone. I rarely look directly at them because I'm driving.
PWM doesn't always bother me either, as I can use a Samsung Smart TV with 360Hz PWM without any problems.
We are currently driving an Audi Q3 Advance and the screens don't bother me.
I don't use them like I would a smartphone. I rarely look directly at them because I'm driving.
PWM doesn't always bother me either, as I can use a Samsung Smart TV with 360Hz PWM without any problems.
I used the EK pro incell for 2 days. Best incell lcd of those i tried. The most responsive of them all. No heat issues and battery drain. Great vivid colors too. Unfortunately it gave me still dry eyes and as a result blurry vision. Experiments for me are over.
I have a Mercedes CLA and the ambient light and the big screen uses PWM. I disabled the ambient and now I can use the car without eye strain.
A couple of days ago, DXO did the display analysis for the regular 16. Wow, this is the best looking PWM chart I have seen on any modern iPhone.