Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[jimmy_uk]

I have a SE3 so might not be the same but I can use the phone on 16.1.1 indefinitely. On 16.3 I get symptoms pretty quickly (though not quite the same as the symptoms I get immediately with OLED Apple phones). I've not been able to test the versions between 16.1.1 and 16.3 so not sure exactly where the change began. But being that you are on 16.7.2 you might have already made it through whatever change happened that made even previously good LCD screens unusable for many of us in the iOS 16 series (and beyond).

Thanks for the reply. I'm stressed about making the upgrade because I won't be able to downgrade and the iPhone 11 is the only phone working for me (and I use it for everything). That one button click might write of my phone for me.....!

This week the Apple Store App needed an update but needs iOS 17. So, the domino effect will kick in and more apps will stop working for me if I stick where I am.

 

[ocean10]

Thanks for the reply. I'm stressed about making the upgrade because I won't be able to downgrade and the iPhone 11 is the only phone working for me (and I use it for everything). That one button click might write of my phone for me.....!

This week the Apple Store App needed an update but needs iOS 17. So, the domino effect will kick in and more apps will stop working for me if I stick where I am.

Yeah, I hear you. I'm in the exact same spot. My earlier version of iOS 16 now isn't supported by some stock trading apps, medical apps, etc. so I'm not sure what I'm going to do next. I've been buying used phones online that haven't been updated to do my "tests" or to hopefully have a backup for my phone if something happens. Hard to find a SE on the earlier iOS 16 versions. You might have better luck with finding an iPhone 11 on the later versions.

I wish we could just find somebody at Apple who could explain what changed to make even previously good LCD displays bad. Something besides just PWM is going on with all these phones. For example I can use an old Samsung Galaxy III with lots of PWM and no issues. Same with an Apple Watch Series 6. Gives me some home that if just a software update can ruin a display that maybe someone can figure out how to "turn off" whatever is happening.

 

[WPIT]

So you can use OLED iphone if you have the 14? That's is to say, your not PWM/dithering sensitive?

I ask because I've kept my iPhone 11 on iOS 16.7.2 after reading people with eye sensitivity having issues with iOS 17 and how 18. I think I will need to upgrade sooner rather than later but if iOS 18 is OK now...

I have always updated the iPhone 11 as soon as possible and I must say iOS 17 was great with zero issues on the iPhone 11. On iOS 18, I had to adjust the brightness and turn True Tone on and off because it did not pick up the right room temperature. I just updated my iPhone to 18.1. It is still too bright and doesn’t adjust correctly. I have an iPhone 14 for work, and the text is hard to read and focus on, probably because of PWM, and the colors are not that nice. I use the iPhone 14 only if I have to because I get tension in the back of my head. The iPhone 11 has an LCD, so it should be fine since it has no PWM, but too much blue light can harm your eyes, so be sure that True Tone is working. I also own an iPad Pro m2 which is great.

 

[Heman87]

I tested the regular 16 and for me it was ok. The iPhone 16 pro of my wife looked better. So I ordered also 16 pro to test for myself. Today I got my iPhone 16 pro to test and wauw this screen is so much worse then the iPhone 16 pro has. I got symptoms right away and if I try to record the phone you immediately see the lines. Speaking of Bad luck with the screen lottery.

 

[WPIT]

I tested the regular 16 and for me it was ok. The iPhone 16 pro of my wife looked better. So I ordered also 16 pro to test for myself. Today I got my iPhone 16 pro to test and wauw this screen is so much worse then the iPhone 16 pro has. I got symptoms right away and if I try to record the phone you immediately see the lines. Bad luck with the screen lottery.

So the iPhone 16 pro is worse than the iPhone 16 for you? I was thinking of getting the IPhone 16 pro since I cannot handle the iPhone 14 regular. The iPhone 16 pro is supposed to have a Samsung M14 LPTO display. Correct me if I’m wrong. I hoped the faster refresh rate not pwm would make it better for me.

 

[Heman87]

So the iPhone 16 pro is worse than the iPhone 16 for you? I was thinking of getting the IPhone 16 pro since I cannot handle the iPhone 14 regular. The iPhone 16 pro is supposed to have a Samsung M14 LPTO display. Correct me if I’m wrong. I hoped the faster refresh rate not pwm would make it better for me.

The iPhone 16 pro I am using today is much worse than the 16 I had. The 16 pro of my wife is better. It really depends who the manufacturer of the screen is I guess. btw the m14 screens of Samsung have much worse modulation dept then the previous versions.

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've just been to my local Apple store to see the iPad Mini 7 for myself. Jelly scroll is still present although slightly reduced. It's not so wavy but still tilts. Surprisingly it's just as bad on the OLED iPad Pro 11".

It's enough to make me pass again as the jelly gives me eye strain. I'm looking at the Lenovo Legion Tab 2024 as I'm over larger tablets.

One of the store workers wanted to chat and I mentioned eye strain and PWM. He was trying to tell me about this thing called "Pro Motion" and how it will help. Bless. I tried to explain about PWM and the various issues suffered by some, but I don't think he was buying it. Started trying to sell me on Vision Pro as a way of using my phone less with no need for a tablet. No way I'm strapping two 4k OLED screens to my face! "Have you had your eye tested". 🤣

 

[WPIT]

The iPhone 16 pro I am using today is much worse than the 16 I had. The 16 pro of my wife is better. It really depends who the manufacturer of the screen is I guess. btw the m14 screens of Samsung have much worse modulation dept then the previous versions

Dear Heman,

I spent a great amount of time yesterday scrolling through the Reddit forums and a lot of people are saying that for the first three days, the iPhone 16 Pro seems fine, but then the headache and strain start to kick in, and the phone becomes unbearable. Based on all the info I have read, the iPhone 16 non-Pro would be better for me.

Reading through the MacRumors forums, some users seem to use the iPhone 15 Pro just fine and some can use the iPhone 16 Pro just fine, but on Reddit it is a completely different story. It is really confusing. I was really tempted to get a Pro, but now I am afraid. The iPhone 16 non-Pro seems to be better for PWM sensitive people. Also, the iPhone 13 seems to be easy on the eyes. Just avoid the iPhone 14; the text is hard to focus on and this gives strain on the eyes to compensate.

 

[arc of the universe]

So I went to the Apple Store on the weekend and filmed all 4 phones. 16, 16 Max, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max. The 16 and 16 Max were bad, the 16 Pro Max was ok and the 16 Pro was perfect. I'm watching for flickering that you can perceive with the slow motion camera of my other iPhone (15 Pro) which I have been using for almost a year without issues. I don't know about the Notebookcheck PWM tests and stuff, but my personal anecdotal findings have been pretty consistent with my ability to use or not use a phone. (Tried to mark which is which, but it's kinda difficult when you didn't make notes! LOL!)

thanks for posting these slow mo videos of all the models.

what is the reason for why the 16 Pro has less apparent flickering than the other models?

 

[Heman87]

I spent a great amount of time yesterday scrolling through the Reddit forums and a lot of people are saying that for the first three days, the iPhone 16 Pro seems fine, but then the headache and strain start to kick in, and the phone becomes unbearable. Based on all the info I have read, the iPhone 16 non-Pro would be better for me.

Reading through the MacRumors forums, some users seem to use the iPhone 15 Pro just fine and some can use the iPhone 16 Pro just fine, but on Reddit it is a completely different story. It is really confusing. I was really tempted to get a Pro, but now I am afraid. The iPhone 16 non-Pro seems to be better for PWM sensitive people. Also, the iPhone 13 seems to be easy on the eyes. Just avoid the iPhone 14; the text is hard to focus on and this gives strain on the eyes to compensate.

Everybody is different and everybody react different on these panels. So I would advice you to try these phones out for yourself. I really miss my ultramarine iPhone 16. I could use that phone in my daily life. And the 11 for media consumption. The 15 pro Max also worked very good for me.

 

[OSXphoto]

I've just been to my local Apple store to see the iPad Mini 7 for myself. Jelly scroll is still present although slightly reduced. It's not so wavy but still tilts. Surprisingly it's just as bad on the OLED iPad Pro 11".

It's enough to make me pass again as the jelly gives me eye strain.

im interested. What do you mean by jelly? Im a week in with a new iPP M4 11”.

as I am aware that I have been very sensitive to displays (for all of my life) I had many doubts before making the M4 iPP purchase, figuring I could return within 14 days if necessary. 120Hz pro motion and Face ID won me over compared to the iPad Air M2 11”, as well as more future proof M4 vs M2. I tend to keep ipads and MacBooks for 10 years if I can. I am still using a 2015 iPad Air 2 with A6 chip, so go figure.

i do experience some eye strain while using the M4 iPP OLED display and some headaches in the front of my head, behind the eyes. Not anything disturbing but it’s there. It fades away after I stop using the device.
i have owned an iPhone 14 Pro Max for two years and never had any issues with it.

Question
i am considering ordering the M2 iPad Air 11” to compare. is the general consensus here that all non-OLED display iPads (such as the M2 air) don’t have PWM and are more friendly to the eyes?

any input would be very welcome!

pete

 

[jimmy_uk]

im interested. What do you mean by jelly? Im a week in with a new iPP M4 11”.

as I am aware that I have been very sensitive to displays (for all of my life) I had many doubts before making the M4 iPP purchase, figuring I could return within 14 days if necessary. 120Hz pro motion and Face ID won me over compared to the iPad Air M2 11”, as well as more future proof M4 vs M2. I tend to keep ipads and MacBooks for 10 years if I can. I am still using a 2015 iPad Air 2 with A6 chip, so go figure.

i do experience some eye strain while using the M4 iPP OLED display and some headaches in the front of my head, behind the eyes. Not anything disturbing but it’s there. It fades away after I stop using the device.
i have owned an iPhone 14 Pro Max for two years and never had any issues with it.

Question
i am considering ordering the M2 iPad Air 11” to compare. is the general consensus here that all non-OLED display iPads (such as the M2 air) don’t have PWM and are more friendly to the eyes?

any input would be very welcome!

pete

You can go to 0:50

 

[DJTaurus]

3.24

 

[jimmy_uk]

3.24

All those fancy-named flicker prevention settings and the flicker is still very present?!

 

[ultravegeta1981]

When i use my mothers samsun a54,which i guess is 120 pwn,i don’t feel any strain. I guess it might be something else for me. I wish i had disposable money to buy a pixel 9 pro and try that one.

 

[jimmy_uk]

When i use my mothers samsun a54,which i guess is 120 pwn,i don’t feel any strain. I guess it might be something else for me. I wish i had disposable money to buy a pixel 9 pro and try that one.

You do well if the A54 doesn't cause eye strain as it has 253hz PWM.

 

[ultravegeta1981]

You do well if the A54 doesn't cause eye strain as it has 253hz PWM.

View attachment 2446792
View attachment 2446793

True. Its just soo confusing,my 16 pro still not really comfortable with 480 hz and the A54 is good. Must be something else.

 

[limo79]

From the HW standpoint it totally does not make any sense:
- both panels (LG and Samung) in the same iPhone model use the same PWM range,
- 253 Hz is the same low frequency range as 60 or 120 Hz,
- old TN+Film and IPS panels use high frequency PWM (kHz) but also can cause flickering when you scroll up/down content with dot patterns (eg. MBP 15.4” Early 2008)

So possibly headache /eye strain symptoms are not correlated only with PWM but also other display properties.

 

[andrewVL]

So I went to the Apple Store on the weekend and filmed all 4 phones. 16, 16 Max, 16 Pro, 16 Pro Max. The 16 and 16 Max were bad, the 16 Pro Max was ok and the 16 Pro was perfect. I'm watching for flickering that you can perceive with the slow motion camera of my other iPhone (15 Pro) which I have been using for almost a year without issues. I don't know about the Notebookcheck PWM tests and stuff, but my personal anecdotal findings have been pretty consistent with my ability to use or not use a phone. (Tried to mark which is which, but it's kinda difficult when you didn't make notes! LOL!)

16 Pro
View attachment 2443103

16
View attachment 2443104

16 Pro Max
View attachment 2443105

16 Max
View attachment 2443106

Slo-mo 120 or 240 fps?

 

[limo79]

View attachment 2442763

Then, as manufacturers began to push for higher readabiliity under direct sunlight, they pushed this brightness amount to extremely high lux.

Good catch. From some amount of time panel refresh technique depends on brigthness level according to external reviews. However I need to highlight that in iPhone 6S japanese IPS screen perceived readability in direct sun (brightness, contrast) is much better than in iPhones with OLED screens (sorry Apple) even if measured display parameters say something different (maybe due to high quality bright (high power and spectrum) LED edge backlit or high quality of IPS polarizer/glass substrate layer).

 

[Jcmwwe]

Hi so what is the latest iOS u can have before u start experiencing some of the issues on that some r in a iphone 11 or iphone se 2022? iOS 15? 16? 17? I have sensitive eyes but need a new lcd iphone. Thanks.

 

[cenkanyil]

Hi everybody,
It has been a while, but I have great news, at least for me.

The S24 series works for me!

I was very hesitant about buying the S24 at first, but my iPhone 11 was dying, and I needed a new phone. I thought about the SE, but come on, I can manage a device with huge bezels. However, the battery life was more of a problem for me. So, I went to the store (just like an Apple Store, but for all media devices, called MediaMarkt). I tested all the devices, and for some reason, I felt like I should just pull the trigger on the S24, so I did. I was very nervous, of course. The first two days, my eyes had to adjust. I think it was because of the switch from LCD to OLED, and the 120Hz display needed some time.

But to get straight to the point: No pain? No dizziness? Nothing? I was genuinely shocked that it just worked for me. I tried it for almost a month, and yeah, I had no symptoms like I previously had with the S23 series or any iPhone series. Before the return window closed, I swapped the regular S24 for the Ultra (because of the Exynos chip in the regular one). The S24 Ultra comes with Snapdragon in my region (Western Europe).

The S24 Ultra, like the regular S24, has been very pleasant on my eyes. Perhaps it's the technology that changed? I don’t know, but I remember the S23 series giving me horrible headaches, and any iPhones as well are unusable for me. I jokingly tried the newest iPhone 16 models, and yeah, headache immediately again.

By the way, I’ve had the S24 since June, and then, before the month ended, I returned it for the Ultra. I’m very happy that I can use this device now for the foreseeable future (7 years of OS support has me covered for a while!).

That’s all, guys. Thanks for reading and goodbye for now. I hope you all find your perfect device one day.

 

[DJTaurus]

Hi everybody,
It has been a while, but I have great news, at least for me.

The S24 series works for me!

I was very hesitant about buying the S24 at first, but my iPhone 11 was dying, and I needed a new phone. I thought about the SE, but come on, I can manage a device with huge bezels. However, the battery life was more of a problem for me. So, I went to the store (just like an Apple Store, but for all media devices, called MediaMarkt). I tested all the devices, and for some reason, I felt like I should just pull the trigger on the S24, so I did. I was very nervous, of course. The first two days, my eyes had to adjust. I think it was because of the switch from LCD to OLED, and the 120Hz display needed some time.

But to get straight to the point: No pain? No dizziness? Nothing? I was genuinely shocked that it just worked for me. I tried it for almost a month, and yeah, I had no symptoms like I previously had with the S23 series or any iPhone series. Before the return window closed, I swapped the regular S24 for the Ultra (because of the Exynos chip in the regular one). The S24 Ultra comes with Snapdragon in my region (Western Europe).

The S24 Ultra, like the regular S24, has been very pleasant on my eyes. Perhaps it's the technology that changed? I don’t know, but I remember the S23 series giving me horrible headaches, and any iPhones as well are unusable for me. I jokingly tried the newest iPhone 16 models, and yeah, headache immediately again.

By the way, I’ve had the S24 since June, and then, before the month ended, I returned it for the Ultra. I’m very happy that I can use this device now for the foreseeable future (7 years of OS support has me covered for a while!).

That’s all, guys. Thanks for reading and goodbye for now. I hope you all find your perfect device one day.

So same eye comfort between regular 24 and ultra? Have you tried anything from the Chinese manufactures ?

 

[jimmy_uk]

If I believed that using a Samsung flagship was the fix - I'd switch in a heartbeat.

 

[cenkanyil]

So same eye comfort between regular 24 and ultra? Have you tried anything from the Chinese manufactures ?

Exactly the same for me. I only tried iPhone, Pixel and Samsung. All of them failed me untill I used the s24 series. I did not even tweak the settings or anything. Straight out of the box it worked for me both the regular s24 and Ultra.