Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[1369281]

If you look directly at the sun and your eyes hurt, should you continue to look at the sun and hope you just get used to it? Maybe your body is telling you that this is something you shouldn't be doing.

We are all guinea pigs when it comes to new technology. Listen to your body and make reasonable decisions.

 

[now i see it]

Question for those with the eye strain / headache issues, how long into using the phone before you notice it bothering you?

I recently purchased a brand new LED HP monitor for my Mac mini. The moment the screen lit up and I looked at it I felt a bit of vertigo. Dizziness. My old Samsung fluorescent backlight monitor never did this.
I filmed a slow motion video of the new Monitor at different brightness levels— and yep, just as I suspected, major PWM flickering of every damn pixel. It looks horrifying in slow motion. It's absolutely terrible . I heard that Viewsonic makes flicker free (non PWM) monitors. I'll try one of those instead and return this piece of eye poison.

I know this is an iPhone X/XS PWM eyestrain thread, but I thought I'd share my experiences with another PWM flicker hell device too.

This is really bad technology. Harmful to your health.

 

[DevinNj]

I think that you have to check asap your computer's display specifications.
Do you need reading glasses?

No on the reading glasses, and it's so random that I've been getting the headaches, I can't pinpoint the exact cause. I have been going through some health issues which certainly could be attributing factors, I just haven't yet jumped on the Max until I can figure it out. I just found out a friend just got the Max, so I think I'll hijack his phone later when I see him for some hands on time. Lol.
[doublepost=1538670515][/doublepost]

I recently purchased a brand new LED HP monitor for my Mac mini. The moment the screen lit up and I looked at it I felt a bit of vertigo. Dizziness. My old Samsung fluorescent backlight monitor never did this.
I filmed a slow motion video of the new Monitor at different brightness levels— and yep, just as I suspected, major PMW flickering of every damn pixel. It looks horrifying in slow motion. It's absolutely terrible . I heard that Viewsonic makes flicker free (non PWM) monitors. Maybe I'll try one of those.

I know this is an iPhone X/XS PWM eyestrain thread, but I thought I'd share my experiences with another PWM flicker hell device too.

This is really bad technology. Harmful to your health.

When I used the phone in store I was fine, I'm hoping to see a buddy later that just got a Max last night for some real world usage.
[doublepost=1538670764][/doublepost]

If you look directly at the sun and your eyes hurt, should you continue to look at the sun and hope you just get used to it? Maybe your body is telling you that this is something you shouldn't be doing.

We are all guinea pigs when it comes to new technology. Listen to your body and make reasonable decisions.

Thank you for your wisdom, you're like a modern-day Confucius. Lol.

 

[rnbarg]

I penned a long post before about returning the XS Max. It's on page 69 or 70. Today I went back to the Apple Store to look at the XS max again. My reaction was the same. The OLED screen makes me uncomfortable to look at. I'm used to the backlight on the LCD and like it. The text on the LCD-based 8 plus looks like it has some depth. It's not stark and flat with a matte like finish which is how it displays on the XS Max. Moreover, the text on the OLED screen looks darker next to the 8 plus at full brightness level. I tried lowering the white point in settings on the XS Max to 25%, the lowest settings while keeping the brightness at 100%. It dimmed the screen enough that I didn't like it. Basically OLED is fine for me on TVs and on the Apple Watch, but not on this phone. Although I would never switch to Android, I'm going to take a look at other implementations to satisfy my curiosity. Most likely I will upgrade to the XR. The 8 plus really seems dated. Notwithstanding its lower resolution the XR display 7 rows of icons 4 columns across just like the 8 plus and I'm hoping the amount of information I can see is equal. Apparently the "liquid retina" technology has some significant improvements. We'll see.

 

[karebare518]

Has anyone not had this problem with the iPhone X but then had it with the Max? I’ve had the X for a year without any problems. But couldn’t last a day looking at the Xs Max

 

[neil74]

So if you dig around the interweb there are some review sites that test for PWM, one that seems really quite good is notebookcheck.net. If their results are to be trusted then the iPhone Xs/max/X are no worse for PWM than other OLED phones on android but are worse than LCD alternatives. Here is a snap-shot of some of the results (lower is worse)…



iPhone Xs max, Xs and X - 240 hz

Samsung S9+ - 240 hz

Pixel 2XL – 242 hz (slightly worse)

LG G7 (LCD) - 1174 Hz (much better)

iPhone 8 – Zero!



Also looked at the P20 pro and OnePlus and they were the same, so this is not an Apple problem it seems but apple users are the only ones who have been complaining (that I have seen) Makes me wonder again about Face ID.



For the record I have suffered with dry eyes and associated problems for years now and have not noticed any difference using either the iPhone X or Xs Max.

 

[tonybarnaby]

So if you dig around the interweb there are some review sites that test for PWM, one that seems really quite good is notebookcheck.net. If their results are to be trusted then the iPhone Xs/max/X are no worse for PWM than other OLED phones on android but are worse than LCD alternatives. Here is a snap-shot of some of the results (lower is worse)…



iPhone Xs max, Xs and X - 240 hz

Samsung S9+ - 240 hz

Pixel 2XL – 242 hz (slightly worse)

LG G7 (LCD) - 1174 Hz (much better)

iPhone 8 – Zero!



Also looked at the P20 pro and OnePlus and they were the same, so this is not an Apple problem it seems but apple users are the only ones who have been complaining (that I have seen) Makes me wonder again about Face ID.



For the record I have suffered with dry eyes and associated problems for years now and have not noticed any difference using either the iPhone X or Xs Max.

I’ve used a dozen android amoled phones and never had an issue. My max affected me within 5 minutes. It’s something to do with how apple implements it. You can’t just lump all 240hz amoled phones together I don’t think.

 

[Tijdelijk]

So if you dig around the interweb there are some review sites that test for PWM, one that seems really quite good is notebookcheck.net. If their results are to be trusted then the iPhone Xs/max/X are no worse for PWM than other OLED phones on android but are worse than LCD alternatives. Here is a snap-shot of some of the results (lower is worse)…



iPhone Xs max, Xs and X - 240 hz

Samsung S9+ - 240 hz

Pixel 2XL – 242 hz (slightly worse)

LG G7 (LCD) - 1174 Hz (much better)

iPhone 8 – Zero!



Also looked at the P20 pro and OnePlus and they were the same, so this is not an Apple problem it seems but apple users are the only ones who have been complaining (that I have seen) Makes me wonder again about Face ID.



For the record I have suffered with dry eyes and associated problems for years now and have not noticed any difference using either the iPhone X or Xs Max.

Let's hope the XR also has ZERO!!!

 

[jm31828]

So eyestrain has been an issue since the X and Apple still hasn't made a software adjustment?

Eyestrain, to me, means my eyes literally hurt, feel odd especially when glancing up to look at something else, and a headache and nausea starts to set in. Those are the effects I feel from the iPhone Xs Max.

How long of a time NOT looking at the phone does it take for your eye strain/headache to go away? Just curious. I am someone who gets headaches and occasional pain behind my eyes frequently, over the last 20+ years. No major deal, no diagnosed health problems with it so far. Sometimes I go through a week or two where I get a mild headache or pain around the eyes that lasts for a week or two off and on throughout the day. Well I got my Xs a week and a half ago, and for the last few days I've been in one of those periods again. I can't tell if it's this time due to the phone or not- I don't necessarily feel anything get worse or any weirdness just as I look at the phone- it's just that during this period of time since a couple days after getting my phone I've been feeling this way, and after reading this thread it has me concerned. I can't pinpoint this time around if this began the day I started using the phone or not- I am kind of feeling like it didn't start right at that time, that I had used it for about two hours straight when I first got it while setting everything up without any noticeable issues.

Yesterday I only used the phone for a few minutes, and had not looked at it once for nearly 12 hours until this morning, and still have had the light headache and pain behind one of my eyes.

I'm not here asking for diagnosis on my headaches lol, but I am really just curious for those of you who have experienced OLED-induced eye strain/headaches- does it sound like your experience, or if I am having those symptoms many hours after looking at the phone, is it safe to say it's not the phone display causing the issue?

My issue with this is that I am only a couple days away from the end of my carrier's 14 day return window. And, I bought two of these- one for me and one for my wife on the BoGo deal ($700 off the 2nd one)- wife loves her phone and has no issues, but if I were to return mine I'd give up that $700 discount, and if I were to buy another later (such as the XR) it'll be a lot more money than the deal we got for two Xs's on this offer. Ugh...
I absolutely love the Xs and if I could somehow figure out that the phone is not causing my latest round of headaches I'd be ecstatic, but this unknown and being up against my return window is really frustrating.

 

[majkom]

keep it and sell it with some discount... problem solved

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

How long of a time NOT looking at the phone does it take for your eye strain/headache to go away? Just curious. I am someone who gets headaches and occasional pain behind my eyes frequently, over the last 20+ years. No major deal, no diagnosed health problems with it so far. Sometimes I go through a week or two where I get a mild headache or pain around the eyes that lasts for a week or two off and on throughout the day. Well I got my Xs a week and a half ago, and for the last few days I've been in one of those periods again. I can't tell if it's this time due to the phone or not- I don't necessarily feel anything get worse or any weirdness just as I look at the phone- it's just that during this period of time since a couple days after getting my phone I've been feeling this way, and after reading this thread it has me concerned. I can't pinpoint this time around if this began the day I started using the phone or not- I am kind of feeling like it didn't start right at that time, that I had used it for about two hours straight when I first got it while setting everything up without any noticeable issues.

Yesterday I only used the phone for a few minutes, and had not looked at it once for nearly 12 hours until this morning, and still have had the light headache and pain behind one of my eyes.

I'm not here asking for diagnosis on my headaches lol, but I am really just curious for those of you who have experienced OLED-induced eye strain/headaches- does it sound like your experience, or if I am having those symptoms many hours after looking at the phone, is it safe to say it's not the phone display causing the issue?

My issue with this is that I am only a couple days away from the end of my carrier's 14 day return window. And, I bought two of these- one for me and one for my wife on the BoGo deal ($700 off the 2nd one)- wife loves her phone and has no issues, but if I were to return mine I'd give up that $700 discount, and if I were to buy another later (such as the XR) it'll be a lot more money than the deal we got for two Xs's on this offer. Ugh...
I absolutely love the Xs and if I could somehow figure out that the phone is not causing my latest round of headaches I'd be ecstatic, but this unknown and being up against my return window is really frustrating.

It is as if you typed this on my behalf. My situation mirrors yours in every single way. Unfortunately I only have through today to decide and I don't think that will leave me enough time. If what I am experiencing is just one of my random eye/strain headache type of fits.....I will not to my knowledge be able to discern it from being the phone. Sucks.

 

[jm31828]

It is as if you typed this on my behalf. My situation mirrors yours in every single way. Unfortunately I only have through today to decide and I don't think that will leave me enough time. If what I am experiencing is just one of my random eye/strain headache type of fits.....I will not to my knowledge be able to discern it from being the phone. Sucks.

Sorry to hear that! Are you leaning towards keeping it and seeing how things go?
For me, I would probably want to go another couple of weeks and see if this lasts- but of course that would go well beyond the window for my return, and who knows how selling it for a bit of a loss later to then buy a different one would affect the $700 BoGo rebate we'll be getting on my wife's phone.

 

[sddabrow]

How long of a time NOT looking at the phone does it take for your eye strain/headache to go away? Just curious. I am someone who gets headaches and occasional pain behind my eyes frequently, over the last 20+ years. No major deal, no diagnosed health problems with it so far. Sometimes I go through a week or two where I get a mild headache or pain around the eyes that lasts for a week or two off and on throughout the day. Well I got my Xs a week and a half ago, and for the last few days I've been in one of those periods again. I can't tell if it's this time due to the phone or not- I don't necessarily feel anything get worse or any weirdness just as I look at the phone- it's just that during this period of time since a couple days after getting my phone I've been feeling this way, and after reading this thread it has me concerned. I can't pinpoint this time around if this began the day I started using the phone or not- I am kind of feeling like it didn't start right at that time, that I had used it for about two hours straight when I first got it while setting everything up without any noticeable issues.

Yesterday I only used the phone for a few minutes, and had not looked at it once for nearly 12 hours until this morning, and still have had the light headache and pain behind one of my eyes.

I'm not here asking for diagnosis on my headaches lol, but I am really just curious for those of you who have experienced OLED-induced eye strain/headaches- does it sound like your experience, or if I am having those symptoms many hours after looking at the phone, is it safe to say it's not the phone display causing the issue?

My issue with this is that I am only a couple days away from the end of my carrier's 14 day return window. And, I bought two of these- one for me and one for my wife on the BoGo deal ($700 off the 2nd one)- wife loves her phone and has no issues, but if I were to return mine I'd give up that $700 discount, and if I were to buy another later (such as the XR) it'll be a lot more money than the deal we got for two Xs's on this offer. Ugh...
I absolutely love the Xs and if I could somehow figure out that the phone is not causing my latest round of headaches I'd be ecstatic, but this unknown and being up against my return window is really frustrating.

Yes, same thing.. mine doesn't seem to last over 12 hours but it does linger quite a while after using the phone for more than 10 minutes. It is strange, it is not so bad that I get headaches, but it is a slight pressure / sinus feel behind the eyes. I find myself closing my eyes and pressing the top of my eye to try and relieve the pressure. Or if I shut my eyes hard (sounds weird I know) it helps relieve it temporarily. This pressure also makes me feel a fake sense of being tired.

It is a strange feeling.. before getting the phone, I recall getting something similar once in a blue moon, but was due to being extremely tired after driving all day.

I can look at my iPad and Viewsonic monitors all day long with no issues, but find myself not wanting to look at the XS Max.

 

[jm31828]

Yes, same thing.. mine doesn't seem to last over 12 hours but it does linger quite a while after using the phone for more than 10 minutes. It is strange, it is not so bad that I get headaches, but it is a slight pressure / sinus feel behind the eyes. I find myself closing my eyes and pressing the top of my eye to try and relieve the pressure. Or if I shut my eyes hard (sounds weird I know) it helps relieve it temporarily. This pressure also makes me feel a fake sense of being tired.

It is a strange feeling.. before getting the phone, I recall getting something similar once in a blue moon, but was due to being extremely tired after driving all day.

I can look at my iPad and Viewsonic monitors all day long with no issues, but find myself not wanting to look at the XS Max.

Interesting. If you aren't feeling anything at the moment, does this come on almost immediately when looking at your Xs Max? Or does it take some rather extended use for this to develop?

 

[sddabrow]

Interesting. If you aren't feeling anything at the moment, does this come on almost immediately when looking at your Xs Max? Or does it take some rather extended use for this to develop?

Definitely is not instant, I would say a couple of minutes of constant looking at the phone causes it. Another weird thing to note is when I jump from screen to screen. For example, I have no issues looking at my iPhone6S, then looking at my iPad, then to my desktop monitors... my eyes adjust fine and I can seamlessly jump around.

When I try to do this same thing on my Max, I feel myself having to stop and re-focus on the other monitors after looking at the Max for a bit. It really is a weird phenomena, my wife thinks I am crazy. I just know something has to be going on, because I find myself wanting to use the iPad instead of the new shiny phone... even for things I would've done on my iPhone6S.

 

[jm31828]

Definitely is not instant, I would say a couple of minutes of constant looking at the phone causes it. Another weird thing to note is when I jump from screen to screen. For example, I have no issues looking at my iPhone6S, then looking at my iPad, then to my desktop monitors... my eyes adjust fine and I can seamlessly jump around.

When I try to do this same thing on my Max, I feel myself having to stop and re-focus on the other monitors after looking at the Max for a bit. It really is a weird phenomena, my wife thinks I am crazy. I just know something has to be going on, because I find myself wanting to use the iPad instead of the new shiny phone... even for things I would've done on my iPhone6S.

The bouncing between screens issue is interesting- to me that definitely seems to say something with that OLED display is bothering you. Maybe it's nothing serious, do you think you could just get used to it or maybe your eyes will adjust to it in some more time? And could it maybe be the higher resolution and contrast and such of the Xs Max?

I read about the PWM issues before getting my phone (while waiting for delivery) and feel there is a chance I psyched myself out over that, too- and some of this is being exasperated by thinking about those issues.

And what do you consider the alternative- would you give the Xr a try if you did decide to return the Max?
I am torn because I love the Xs, and would be bummed out with the Xr over not having the dual camera- though the piece of mind over not having PWM to potentially deal with and potentially having a longer life screen may be attractive. But I can't get over how amazing the Xs is, so I am tempted to try for a couple more weeks to stick with it and see if some of this goes away and I can get some confidence that the phone display is not bothering me.

 

[now i see it]

Computer monitor induced eyestrain, be it iPhone or computer monitor can cause long term (but not permanent) symptoms even when you're no longer staring at the blasted thing. Back in the CRT days when I used to use a computer all day long every day, I developed a severe eye strain problem that seemed to never go away. I became so sensitized to the flickering of computer monitors, that even walking into a Fry's electronics store and walking into the computer display area - and not even looking directly at the monitors- would trigger the severe eye strain/headache from all the monitors flickering in my peripheral vision.

I never used to have that problem. It only developed after overexposing myself to flicker and eventually becoming extremely sensitive to it.

So that long story goes to show---overexposing yourself to flickering screens (by staring at a iPhone X/S for long periods can weaken your eyes and create a hypersensitivity to PWM and all flicker you never had in the past.

My advice: If the X/XS gives anyone the slightest bit of eye trouble... get rid of it before it's too late and get an iPhone 8+ or XR.

 

[sddabrow]

The bouncing between screens issue is interesting- to me that definitely seems to say something with that OLED display is bothering you. Maybe it's nothing serious, do you think you could just get used to it or maybe your eyes will adjust to it in some more time? And could it maybe be the higher resolution and contrast and such of the Xs Max?

I read about the PWM issues before getting my phone (while waiting for delivery) and feel there is a chance I psyched myself out over that, too- and some of this is being exasperated by thinking about those issues.

And what do you consider the alternative- would you give the Xr a try if you did decide to return the Max?
I am torn because I love the Xs, and would be bummed out with the Xr over not having the dual camera- though the piece of mind over not having PWM to potentially deal with and potentially having a longer life screen may be attractive. But I can't get over how amazing the Xs is, so I am tempted to try for a couple more weeks to stick with it and see if some of this goes away and I can get some confidence that the phone display is not bothering me.

Not sure.. I have requested a return through my company, but not sure how the process works (I work remotely and can get an upgrade every 2 years). Depending what they say about the return policy, I will see how the XR looks once it is released.

 

[stafil]

So if you dig around the interweb there are some review sites that test for PWM, one that seems really quite good is notebookcheck.net. If their results are to be trusted then the iPhone Xs/max/X are no worse for PWM than other OLED phones on android but are worse than LCD alternatives. Here is a snap-shot of some of the results (lower is worse)…



iPhone Xs max, Xs and X - 240 hz

Samsung S9+ - 240 hz

Pixel 2XL – 242 hz (slightly worse)

LG G7 (LCD) - 1174 Hz (much better)

iPhone 8 – Zero!



Also looked at the P20 pro and OnePlus and they were the same, so this is not an Apple problem it seems but apple users are the only ones who have been complaining (that I have seen) Makes me wonder again about Face ID.



For the record I have suffered with dry eyes and associated problems for years now and have not noticed any difference using either the iPhone X or Xs Max.

I really don’t know what it is about X and Xs that’s giving me headaches. I am not affected by S9, so you are right to say that it might not be the PWM. but for sure it is something to do with the phone. Especially with the X I get horrible headaches almost immediately.

 

[The.Glorious.Son]

Sorry to hear that! Are you leaning towards keeping it and seeing how things go?
For me, I would probably want to go another couple of weeks and see if this lasts- but of course that would go well beyond the window for my return, and who knows how selling it for a bit of a loss later to then buy a different one would affect the $700 BoGo rebate we'll be getting on my wife's phone.

Thanks I feel you. I ended up returning my max because I had gotten it and the Verizon payment plan and didn’t want to get stuck with the phone if it wouldn’t work out. I had to pay the $50 restock fee which sucked but I felt like it was the lesser of two evils. In the end, I don’t believe it was the phone giving me issues. I’ve still been having some eyestrain and headaches well after the phone being gone. I loved enough to where I am going to try it again but if I do so, this time I will do it through Apple so that if it doesn’t work out I don’t get stuck paying another high restock fee.

 

[Rk01]

I really don’t know what it is about X and Xs that’s giving me headaches. I am not affected by S9, so you are right to say that it might not be the PWM. but for sure it is something to do with the phone. Especially with the X I get horrible headaches almost immediately.

Maybe face id? I dont have problems with the s8 of my girlfriend and dont have problems with my led tv with pwm.

But the Xs i have instant eye strain! Maybe a strange callibration of the screen and PWM or maybe the face id IR.

We wil know when the Xr without PWM is still giving problems. Then it must be face ID.

 

[DevinNj]

Maybe face id? I dont have problems with the s8 of my girlfriend and dont have problems with my led tv with pwm.

But the Xs i have instant eye strain! Maybe a strange callibration of the screen and PWM or maybe the face id IR.

We wil know when the Xr without PWM is still giving problems. Then it must be face ID.

It's not face ID, it was stated earlier that a user(s) have covered the projector and still had the issue.

 

[dazz87]

Going to try turning FACEID off today and will see.

been there done that...... Will not help.

 

[jm31828]

Thanks I feel you. I ended up returning my max because I had gotten it and the Verizon payment plan and didn’t want to get stuck with the phone if it wouldn’t work out. I had to pay the $50 restock fee which sucked but I felt like it was the lesser of two evils. In the end, I don’t believe it was the phone giving me issues. I’ve still been having some eyestrain and headaches well after the phone being gone. I loved enough to where I am going to try it again but if I do so, this time I will do it through Apple so that if it doesn’t work out I don’t get stuck paying another high restock fee.

I'm surprised you had to pay a restock fee. I just called AT&T, they said as long as I return/exchange mine before the end of the 14 day window there wouldn't be one. Sorry to hear that in your case.

I thought about it for a bit and am now considering going with the 8 Plus- same dual lens camera I really wanted, still a great performing phone and bigger size with the older LCD panel that I know won't cause me problems. Best part is I can still use it as a part of that BoGo deal- meaning since it's $699, it would be free since we are still going to keep my wife's Xs Max. Not bad I guess- though I do love my Xs and wish I could keep it. I just have too much suspicion what I'm going through is from the phone.

 

[TDDM]

I miss my Max, it was honestly such a great phone. Really hoping the XR doesn't use PWM, that's the next best thing.

Maybe we could reach out to some of the youtube channels that get the review units before launch and see if one of em would be willing to test for flickering?