Other Eye-strain while using iPhone X and up

[phdane]

I created an account to share my experience in hopes it helps.

I picked up my XS Max a little under two weeks ago. I was absolutely blown away with the phone. The large display, the speed, and the home gestures were wonderful.

Unfortunately within a few days my vision had gone from perfectly normal (oddly enough I had an eye appointment a week before) to blurry- along with throbbing dry eyes and a dull headache. I took some time away from screens only to realize when I returned that my symptoms only picked back up after looking at my phone for 5-10 minutes. I spoke with Apple Support online and eventually in store (where I purchased the phone) to be told that they had certainly had returns with the X/Xs generation due to eye strain.

I, very sadly, had to return the phone and pick up an 8+ instead. While the 8+ is also an incredible phone, I'll be watching the xr and future generations with great interest to see how the strategy in screens evolves.

What's been most surprising is how hostile fellow Apple fans have been in online communities. I've been accused of slander or exaggeration. Those of us experiencing eye issues certainly realize we are in the minority, but we just want other users to be on the look out for symptoms when moving to a new phone so they don't exhaust their return window. I can't tell you how many posts I've read of people who have had numerous doctor visits only to realize it was their phone after all causing them problems.

 

[rnbarg]

In accord: https://news.softpedia.com/news/hea...ng-the-iphone-x-you-re-not-alone-519672.shtml

And this excellent YouTube video:

I was unaware that PWM even manifests itself even at full screen brightness. I don’t have this issue w/my OLED TV manufactured by LG. It’s a shame because the XS phones are unrivaled for clarity and quality of images and videos. It reminds me of one the Greek Myths - be careful what you wish for.

One other issue that is pointed out in the video. With the XS Max, I have to wear my reading glasses to read the text on the display. I’m nearsighted and am at the age where reading glasses are necessary. With the 8 plus, I can easily read text w/the naked eye with the phone about the same distance away. This is counterintuitive because the text on the XS Max is crystal clear and sharper. When I am out and about, it would really be incovenient to don a pair of reading glasses every time I wat too read an email in the XS Max.

 

[snc]

I had headache after usage of iphone xs max but I took few days break and gave it second chance. I setuped brigthness to stiff 50% and don't have any problems (I'm using it now for more than week).

 

[stafil]

I had headache after usage of iphone xs max but I took few days break and gave it second chance. I setuped brigthness to stiff 50% and don't have any problems (I'm using it now for more than week).

Why would you do this? Your eyes clearly tell you that this display is not good for them, why force it?

 

[TDDM]

Potentially good news for the PWM-sensitive crowd:

"Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who often accurately predicts Apple's future device plans, believes the company will continue to offer three iPhones in 2019 with the same general lineup seen in 2018.

In a note to investors about Apple supplier Luxshare's predicted market share released this morning, Kuo included a chart that suggests Apple will continue to offer 5.8 and 6.5-inch OLED iPhones in 2019, along with one 6.1-inch LCD model."

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/10/15/kuo-2019-iphone-lineup/


Now we just gotta hope that the LCD models don't use PWM or at least don't use it above 42% like the G7. If that's the case, then we're good for at least two years Hopefully Apple would be able to address PWM in the OLED models by then.

 

[stafil]

Potentially good news for the PWM-sensitive crowd:

"Apple analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, who often accurately predicts Apple's future device plans, believes the company will continue to offer three iPhones in 2019 with the same general lineup seen in 2018.

In a note to investors about Apple supplier Luxshare's predicted market share released this morning, Kuo included a chart that suggests Apple will continue to offer 5.8 and 6.5-inch OLED iPhones in 2019, along with one 6.1-inch LCD model."

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/10/15/kuo-2019-iphone-lineup/


Now we just gotta hope that the LCD models don't use PWM or at least don't use it above 42% like the G7. If that's the case, then we're good for at least two years Hopefully Apple would be able to address PWM in the OLED models by then.

Has it been proved that it is PWM that is responsible for the eye-strain and headaches? PWM is there in ever other phone with OLED, but doesn't seem to affect the users.

 

[TDDM]

Has it been proved that it is PWM that is responsible for the eye-strain and headaches? PWM is there in ever other phone with OLED, but doesn't seem to affect the users.

It does affect certain people, for example, someone actually went as far as creating a custom kernel for the Galaxy phones to remove the PWM. I think it's mostly how PWM is implemented.

Another example would be MacBooks. Someone else on macrumors posted this:

"I have a friend who works in R&D for Apple in California and he got me in contact with the head of displays for Apple. The jist of it is that 2015 MacBook Pro 15inch use no PWM until 50% brightness, at which point they use a 100Khz PWM frequency, which is well above the migraine threshold and is "undetectable" to most tests (even some cheap oscilloscopes)""

So it's not *all* PWM, it's just when it's implemented in a bad way. Still can't figure out why some people are completely fine with other OLED phones but have issues with the X/XS even though they have the same Hz rate though

 

[tonybarnaby]

Has it been proved that it is PWM that is responsible for the eye-strain and headaches? PWM is there in ever other phone with OLED, but doesn't seem to affect the users.

It’s something to do with apple. I have an OLED Moto z play I use hours per day that doesn’t bug me a bit. None of my galaxy s phones bugged me. I returned my max after a weekend of pain. All of the phones on paper have about the same pwm stats, so it’s down to something else.

 

[TDDM]

It’s something to do with apple. I have an OLED Moto z play I use hours per day that doesn’t bug me a bit. None of my galaxy s phones bugged me. I returned my max after a weekend of pain. All of the phones on paper have about the same pwm stats, so it’s down to something else.

Hmm, this is interesting:

"In the review sample this appears at a frequency of 243.9 Hz in a brightness setting of below 20%. However, flickering is still measurable at full brightness. The amplitude response is very flat so that fewer problems should occur despite the lower frequency of 60 Hz."

So apparently the Moto z play doesn't have full on PWM above 20% brightness? I guess the flickering at 100% they mention is manageable enough that it doesn't affect PWM sensitive people.

 

[tonybarnaby]

Hmm, this is interesting:

"In the review sample this appears at a frequency of 243.9 Hz in a brightness setting of below 20%. However, flickering is still measurable at full brightness. The amplitude response is very flat so that fewer problems should occur despite the lower frequency of 60 Hz."

So apparently the Moto z play doesn't have full on PWM above 20% brightness? I guess the flickering at 100% they mention is manageable enough that it doesn't affect PWM sensitive people.

The z play also uses a Samsung OLED display. Same with my OnePlus 3 that also never gave me any issues. I dunno how it works, but the common denominator for me is apple, not OLED or even pwm.

 

[phdane]

The z play also uses a Samsung OLED display. Same with my OnePlus 3 that also never gave me any issues. I dunno how it works, but the common denominator for me is apple, not OLED or even pwm.

I also wanted to add that I’ve used the Galaxy S3 and S6, as well as the Pixel 2XL (which all use OLED screens and PWM). All 3 were used for 8+ months and I never had any issues.

I’ve also experienced eye pain like this with the first Retina Display MacBook Pro. I’m not sure if there’s any overlap in architecture or design.

I’m curious what Apple is doing differently that’s causing us issues.

 

[miniyou64]

Everyone please call Apple support and report this issue. The tech I spoke with today assured me that this feedback would be forwarded to the engineering team. It took 5 mins. And the only way Apple will address or change this is if thet know about it. I didn’t need the iPhone XS that I returned to make this call. Just used the Apple Support App, selected my current phone and selected Display issues, then explained clearly to the tech that I was calling about having issues with the PWM on the OLED display on my iPhone XS and had to return it. Asked me questions and I answered. Assured me multiple times that the feedback was valuable and would be escalated. Not sure where it will go but if you have 5 mins, the more people call, the more it will make a difference.

 

[rnbarg]

I hate to say Good Luck with That, but Apple, I am sure, knew about this issue before marketing the phones. As with the infamous MacBook Pro keyboard failures, the only thing that will sway Apple to change the hardware/software in the phone is the actual frequency of 14 day returns of XS/XS Max where the user indicates eyestrain, headaches etc was the cause. And BTW, as with the keyboard failures, they will never admit fault, only make the change, probably sub silento.

For Apple, it's a business decision. They're also offering a really great LCD phone, the XR, for users that don't find the OLED screen to to their liking.

 

[miniyou64]

I hate to say Good Luck with That, but Apple, I am sure, knew about this issue before marketing the phones. As with the infamous MacBook Pro keyboard failures, the only thing that will sway Apple to change the hardware/software in the phone is the actual frequency of 14 day returns of XS/XS Max where the user indicates eyestrain, headaches etc was the cause. And BTW, as with the keyboard failures, they will never admit fault, only make the change, probably sub silento.

For Apple, it's a business decision. They're also offering a really great LCD phone, the XR, for users that don't find the OLED screen to to their liking.

Well I don’t find the size, shape or lack of some important features to my liking on the XR. Apple is making some really dumb decisions lately

 

[AJAAY]

It does affect certain people, for example, someone actually went as far as creating a custom kernel for the Galaxy phones to remove the PWM. I think it's mostly how PWM is implemented.

Another example would be MacBooks. Someone else on macrumors posted this:

"I have a friend who works in R&D for Apple in California and he got me in contact with the head of displays for Apple. The jist of it is that 2015 MacBook Pro 15inch use no PWM until 50% brightness, at which point they use a 100Khz PWM frequency, which is well above the migraine threshold and is "undetectable" to most tests (even some cheap oscilloscopes)""

So it's not *all* PWM, it's just when it's implemented in a bad way. Still can't figure out why some people are completely fine with other OLED phones but have issues with the X/XS even though they have the same Hz rate though

It’s not a popular theory, but I think the Face ID sensors may play a role as well.

 

[rnbarg]

Well I don’t find the size, shape or lack of some important features to my liking on the XR. Apple is making some really dumb decisions lately

You haven’t even see the actual phone. Making judgments based on published specs alone seems to me to be somewhat premature.

 

[lordofthegins]

After almost 3 weeks of headaches and strain have called Apple to return my Xs Max. Pretty guttered as it’s a beautiful phone and the Xr doesn’t look as good.

While it sucks to be the minority, I have to put my eyes first

Added bonus; the difference between a 256gb Max and 128gb Xr is about 520USD.

 

[miniyou64]

You haven’t even see the actual phone. Making judgments based on published specs alone seems to me to be somewhat premature.

Ive had an XS in hand and seen cases for the XR. I know all I want is the XS. I don’t want to have to settle for the XR but thats what it’s looking like.

 

[austyn23]

Ive had an XS in hand and seen cases for the XR. I know all I want is the XS. I don’t want to have to settle for the XR but thats what it’s looking like.

+1

The X was just great for me in size, a little bigger than my 7 (and heavier) but the all screen design justify the "effort".

The XR is going far beyond... I know we are talking of a few mm and grams, but everything counts.. and it's always more, a few more millimeters, a few more grams... more and more...

 

[badger1212]

I've been watching this thread with interest as I experienced eye strain and occular pain using the X on release a year ago. I had to return it and bought an 8 instead which I was fine with. I recently had to replace that and thought I'd try Android as I knew I'd have issues with the XS too and had used Samsung AMOLED screens briefly before and been OK. I purchased the S9 about a week ago and was pretty happy with it until this morning. I did use it a fair bit last night admittedly but I woke up this morning, picked it up and realised I had really severe occular pain again and remembered I'd had it yesterday too which I had just attributed to a normal headache. So it seems for me at least that it's not just Apple OLED screens that cause me problems Looks like I might be getting that XR after all.

 

[filmak]

You haven’t even see the actual phone. Making judgments based on published specs alone seems to me to be somewhat premature.

But you can't say that it is a "really great phone" either, as this based only on published specs too, so this claim is also "somewhat premature".

Let it be tested first in real people's hands. Except for size etc there may be other issues that we cannot predict.

 

[austyn23]

Let it be tested first in real people's hands. Except for size etc there may be other that issues we cannot predict.

For me the problem is the weight... the 7 plus bothers me a lot, the SE was georgeous, the 7 is OK.

The XR is going to be heavy IMO

 

[jimmy_uk]

For me the problem is the weight... the 7 plus bothers me a lot, the SE was georgeous, the 7 is OK.

The XR is going to be heavy IMO

XR is reported as 6.8 oz; 194 g.
7+ is 188g

Did the SE stop being gorgeous? There's the SE, 7, 8, X, XS or android for other options if you want a "lighter" phone.

 

[stafil]

XR is reported as 6.8 oz; 194 g.
7+ is 188g

Did the SE stop being gorgeous? There's the SE, 7, 8, X, XS or android for other options if you want a "lighter" phone.

Oh wow. Heavier despite having a smaller screen? Sucks

 

[jimmy_uk]

Oh wow. Heavier despite having a smaller screen? Sucks

Glass back adds the weight.