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repairedCheese

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2020
632
835
So, realistically speaking it’s possible, though I guess is it worth the time and effort at this stage, though I do much want to do it.
No, it's not realistic. It's technically possible, but it's not remotely realistic. You want to bolt on a newer rendering engine, that you know nothing about, onto an old web browser, one you also know almost nothing about.
Ok, here is another idea - say I wanted to go to Starbucks with my PB G4 titanium abs browse the internet - is there a way to set up proxy on my iPhone 7, so it can allow the old browser (LWK), access those sites it can’t on its own ?
Unless someone has ported one of these fairly obscure single purpose proxies over? No, no there is not.
And if I understand this right, all that's doing is creating a wrapper for Internet Explorer, or possibly a version of Microsoft Edge. I don't actually know if they've manage to fully replace IE yet for that purpose.

I know you want this all to be easy, but it's not. Most of the "new" web browsers that come into existence are just forks or ports of existing ones. Even that isn't easy. OS 9 currently lacks a lot of what would be needed to just fork port Pale Moon over, and that's based on Firefox 24 ESR.


It still got a port, if a somewhat feature incomplete one, and just to Leopard. But even this is something of a minor miracle. This is what it looks like when it's not easy. And given the hard drive failure that this project was on, it's not to be. But could someone else approach it and try again? Sure, but there's no reason to expect they'd have an easier time getting it to work on Leopard than wicknix did.

As you go further back in time with the versions of the Mac OS, you miss more and more of the tools required to port over existing code. You'd have to make them yourself. For example, that link you shared, if you wanted to do that for Mac OS 9 software, at the very least, you'd need Visual Studio. From what I can see, Visual Studio for Mac isn't older than 2019. Do you think that can build Classic Mac OS programs?
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
Yes, you are right its not simple as it seems. What version of visual Studio do I need for building classic mac os programs ? I could use webarchive back to 2000-2001 to find it - or it could already be on mac app store. I do however, see there is a lot more potential with Leopard of course. Ok, it appears no such app exists for Mac, its a stupid Microcrap app.. MS Visual Studio, duh.. how stupid can I be!??
 
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repairedCheese

macrumors 6502a
Jan 13, 2020
632
835
Yes, you are right its not simple as it seems. What version of visual Studio do I need for building classic mac os programs ? I could use webarchive back to 2000-2001 to find it - or it could already be on mac app store. I do however, see there is a lot more potential with Leopard of course.
I'm saying this doesn't exist. This is not a thing. There isn't one. If you wanted to make Windows 98 programs, that would be a different story, but since you don't, this is not the tool for you. Until very recently, it was a Windows only tool.

If you want a tool to make apps for Mac OS 9, try Codewarrior Pro.
As has been stated elsewhere, this version is actually used to build Classilla. But, that doesn't mean it's an easy process.
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
ah ha ! I already got CodeWarrior.. now I just have to research what I can do to either make Classila work
And or Netscape.
 

Bruninho

Suspended
Mar 12, 2021
354
339
Here. Good luck.


I haven't tried it, and I will not try. I'm fine with Browservice on rPi3 as a proxy for my browsing needs on OS9 when I'm at home. It's when I'm not the problem. Need to find a way to run squid/stunnel as a background service on my jailbroken 2017 iPad Pro, which has UTM and runs macOS 9 under QEMU.

Cydia does have stunnel as one of the available packages to install, but I have no clue on how to set it up in a jailbroken iOS device. I know how to do it on a modern mac though for Outlook Express as a workaround for PLAIN AUTH - I have documented it on VOGONS because I knew one day I'd completely forget how to do it.
 
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Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
Here. Good luck.


I haven't tried it, and I will not try. I'm fine with Browservice on rPi3 as a proxy for my browsing needs on OS9 when I'm at home. It's when I'm not the problem. Need to find a way to run squid/stunnel as a background service on my jailbroken 2017 iPad Pro, which has UTM and runs macOS 9 under QEMU.

Cydia does have stunnel as one of the available packages to install, but I have no clue on how to set it up in a jailbroken iOS device. I know how to do it on a modern mac though for Outlook Express as a workaround for PLAIN AUTH - I have documented it on VOGONS because I knew one day I'd completely forget how to do it.
What does Browservice do ? And is it easy to set up ?
 

Wowfunhappy

macrumors 68000
Mar 12, 2019
1,745
2,087
Some non-progress: Squid 3 also doesn't seem to run on Tiger. Well, it runs initially, but as soon as I enable ssl-bump in the config file (which is what allows Squid to intercept https, aka the whole point), it crashes due to KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE.

(I haven't tried Leopard, but I kind of don't want to spend time on this unless it also works on Tiger. I don't like non-Snow Leopard, it feels unfinished.)

I should probably figure out how to get carl working...
 
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wicknix

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jun 4, 2017
2,621
5,304
Wisconsin, USA
I haven't tried Leopard, but I kind of don't want to spend time on this unless it also works on Tiger
There really is no point of doing this for tiger. It doesn't have a recent webkit based browser that could benefit from it. Links2 and the mozilla based browsers all work fine on tiger (and leopard of course). In my eyes the whole point was to make leopard-webkit 99% useable again, which it is if you run squid on another device. Even with a 2018 codebase leopard-webkit is 3-4 years newer than mozilla 45, and it shows. It can still access/render sites than make 45 barf.

Cheers
 

Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
There really is no point of doing this for tiger. It doesn't have a recent webkit based browser that could benefit from it. Links2 and the mozilla based browsers all work fine on tiger (and leopard of course). In my eyes the whole point was to make leopard-webkit 99% useable again, which it is if you run squid on another device. Even with a 2018 codebase leopard-webkit is 3-4 years newer than mozilla 45, and it shows. It can still access/render sites than make 45 barf.

Cheers
I would like to add that interweb is a very kewl, fast web browser with foxPEP where 100% of everything is accessible with no TLS issues at all. We also have seamonkey PowerPC from a few years ago which also works. As for Tiger, I assume tenfourfox would be the best choice.

save carl for those who are running or want to experiment with 10.3 and lower.
 

PowerHarryG4

macrumors regular
May 31, 2020
108
34
London, England
When having the squid proxy enabled in network settings is there anyway to have tenfourfox function as well? or maybe it's just me having this issue.

Picture 1.png
 

PowerHarryG4

macrumors regular
May 31, 2020
108
34
London, England
I'm having an issue where leopard webkit can connect to display a website while connected to the squid proxy but Tenfourfox cannot display the website properly. The website tends to crash on webkit so I'd rather use tenfourfox. I have a hunch there is some sort of security that tenfourfox does not support on the website. Is there any way to configure tenfourfox to use the squid proxy as well, or does it not work like that?
 

wicknix

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jun 4, 2017
2,621
5,304
Wisconsin, USA
It's not the security aspect of it so much. It's the fact that even though WebKit is from 2018 it's still 3 years newer than tenfourfox (Firefox 45 was released in 2015). WebKit has more up to date internal components, which is probably why the site mostly works vs not working with TFF.

Cheers
 

PowerHarryG4

macrumors regular
May 31, 2020
108
34
London, England
It's not the security aspect of it so much. It's the fact that even though WebKit is from 2018 it's still 3 years newer than tenfourfox (Firefox 45 was released in 2015). WebKit has more up to date internal components, which is probably why the site mostly works vs not working with TFF.

Cheers
Oh it must be that then, cheers. Not sure if this is the right place to ask but is there any way to make webkit crash less, would adding lots of ram be an option? I know they're very intensive websites, but i've had frequent crashes on things like unsplash and sites with lots of images.
 

wicknix

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Jun 4, 2017
2,621
5,304
Wisconsin, USA
More ram will help for sure. As for the crashes, it's hit or miss. I've always had good luck with leopard WebKit. Rarely ever crashes. For others it crashes regularly. I'm thinking it's the ads heavy use of java script causing it. I use a hosts file to block ads system wide so that might be why it's been stable for me.

Cheers
 

PowerHarryG4

macrumors regular
May 31, 2020
108
34
London, England
More ram will help for sure. As for the crashes, it's hit or miss. I've always had good luck with leopard WebKit. Rarely ever crashes. For others it crashes regularly. I'm thinking it's the ads heavy use of java script causing it. I use a hosts file to block ads system wide so that might be why it's been stable for me.

Cheers
How much ram does your Mac have? Mine has 4 gigs which I thought would be enough but I have noticed on sites with images the WebKit ram usage gets up to 3 gigs, so I’ll try increasing the ram and hopefully it will stop the crashes. I also have a pi-hole in the house, but it’s possible that some ads get through, or maybe the squid proxy messes with it.

thanks
 

Project Alice

macrumors 68020
Jul 13, 2008
2,078
2,158
Post Falls, ID
I finally got around to setting this up on my Mac Mini running Snow Leopard server. It seems to have worked for Leopard webkit tested on one of my powerbooks. However, I am not having the same success with Tiger connected to it.
I added the squid cert to Tiger's keychain just like I did in Leopard, but Tiger won't trust it.
Forcing me to press continue every time a page is loaded. I also set all the trust settings to always trust so I'm not sure why it's doing this.

Classilla doesn't seem to recognize it at all.
 

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Macbookprodude

Suspended
Jan 1, 2018
3,306
898
I think InterWEB should be the defacto plus tenfourfox for all web browsing and lets retire LWK.. It was great in its days, though it does still work with 80 percent of websites out there, but interweb and tenfourfox are the ones we should be using. TLS 1.4 won't be here until most of us are old and gray.
 

alectrona6400

macrumors regular
Mar 1, 2019
221
120
Yeeeeah, this kind of ended on a bit of a low note. Fixes for webkit were made and now I'm told to use TenFourFox... which sucks to use on pretty much any PowerPC mac.
I've had better experience with Leopard webkit, but geez, where's that package when you need it? I just don't see a reason as to why this was abandoned so quickly.
 
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