Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

[bitnaut]

How are you powering both cards at the same time? Sounds like you're drawing too much power and the machine is restarting to protect itself.

What do you mean by "no longer recognized"? Do you have SIP enabled or disabled? In High Sierra, if you run in to the Library Validation issues then it'll look like no driver was installed/enabled.

No I have an outboard power supply that spits power out of 2 - 8 pin connectors and then the 2 - 6 pin connectors are covered by the Mac's internal 6 pin power connectors.

I've had this configuration working since the initial release of the Pascal web drivers. It's only with the latest 107 driver that I can no longer leave both a Maxwell and a Pascal Titan X running in the same machine without being booted out to the login screen.

 

[0990848]

I have a 2012 iMac with a GTX 680mx. I don't game at all and really haven't noticed any performance issues on the default driver which is probably 5 years old now unless it was updated without me knowing.

Would it be recommended for me to download the beta web driver? Again, I don't game at all or use any GPU intensive applications but figured if an update is available why not, as long as it's solid and stable. But being a beta is putting me off.

 

[Asgorath]

I have a 2012 iMac with a GTX 680mx. I don't game at all and really haven't noticed any performance issues on the default driver which is probably 5 years old now unless it was updated without me knowing.

Would it be recommended for me to download the beta web driver? Again, I don't game at all or use any GPU intensive applications but figured if an update is available why not, as long as it's solid and stable. But being a beta is putting me off.

It's beta support of non-official PC cards (e.g. Maxwell, Pascal). The support for Kepler GPUs like yours is not beta.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^^And again, Nvidia says it's not Beta Support on a cMP. They do not specify the GPU engine.

Lou

 

[0990848]

It's beta support of non-official PC cards (e.g. Maxwell, Pascal). The support for Kepler GPUs like yours is not beta.

But reading the image posted by flowrider, doesn't it indicate that it is beta support for iMacs?

View attachment 737937
Lou

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Yes it does!

Lou

 

[h9826790]

^^^^^And again, Nvidia says it's not Beta Support on a cMP. They do not specify the GPU engine.

View attachment 737937
Lou

If you straightly follow that page's info, then anything apart from the following GPU is not supported at all, not even Beta.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Circle Jerk here - Every time I post, you post and then I post this:

From Nvidia Blog on 4/6/17.

BTW, I'm running an MVC flashed Gigabyte GTX 1080 in HS.

Lou

 

[h9826790]

^^^^Circle Jerk here - Every time I post, you post and then I post this:

View attachment 737959
From Nvidia Blog on 4/6/17.

Lou

Yes, then I will post this. From Nvidia Blog on 31/8/2015.

Since this blog, they never ever say anything about upgrade the Maxwell support from beta to official. And I really doubt if Nvidia will only give beta support to Maxwell, but full official support to Pascal.

If we take every single word in your capture so straight, then Nvidia only "open" the TitanXP to the Mac community. Never say there is an official support for any Pascal card. And TBH, I doubt if Nvidia is that care about the wording in just a blog post (e.g. use plain English "open" but not full technical term "beta support"), and I don't think an older blog post can override the newer official driver download page's info. By considering the driver page is created in 1st Nov 2017, it's much more updated than the blog, and it says nothing about supporting any Pascal GPU. I will treat there is no official support Nvidia, but just beta support (same as Maxwell). If there is an official support since mid 2017, Nvidia should updated the driver download page's info months ago.

I am not trying to against you. I am also running a 1080Ti now, of course I want official support. But IMO, I should provide a full picture to the other members here. That's why I always post after yours, because I personally believe that's just beta support. We can't use only one blog post to override all other evidence, and make conclusion subjectively.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^OK - Your's quote is over 2 years old. Doesn't cover current cards and is certainly obsolete - TWO YEARS is a LIFETIME in GPU years. I'm done arguing with you because you appear to want to argue for the sake of arguing, and that's just not my style.

Lou

 

[h9826790]

Sine you quote from the blog, that’s the only source ever mention the Pascal card can work with the web driver. Therefore, I also quote the one and only one source that mentioned about Maxwell card can work with web driver. It’s not about the time, but the source.

And since no newer source from Nvidia says anything about the Maxwell support. I treat that as the lastest info (same as you treat the one and only one blog post as the Pascal latest info). 2 years or 2 days? Doesn’t really matter, it’s the latest.

If time is matter, then why not trust the lastest web driver page info. That’s publish by Nvidia officially in a formal way less than a month ago. There is zero mention about official support of both Maxwell and Pascal card.

I drill on the this matter, because we should not easily tell the others the support is official. And the fact is we don’t know if that’s real official or still in beta. It’s simply lack of info to conclude.

The fact is Nvidia do specific which GPU is officially supported on cMP on the same page you quote (about “They do not specify the GPU engine."). And you intentionally ignore that, but just quote part of the info you want, and then mix it with the blog post to conclude Pascal GPU is officially supported on cMP. This part I really cannot agree.

If we follow that page, then the supported GPU is clearly stated. No Pascal card. If we just follow the blog, then why Maxwell is beta all the way until now and Pascal is official? I think it’s improper to selectively see what we want to see, and then make a conclusion, then treat this conclusion as a fact to tell the others.

 

[Squuiid]

IMO the web driver is very much a beta and that is why I ditched my 1070FE and went for the RX580.
The 1070FE was buggy in my experience. OS lag after sleep, various glitches here and there. Nothing major but annoying to me personally. (And yes, it was powered correctly with two mini 6-pin to one 8-pin.)

The RX580 so far has been the opposite. Very smooth and bug free. I'm sure there are bugs there, just nothing so overt as I found with the web driver.

Just played Firewatch on it and while the performance is nowhere near the 1080FE in my other Mac Pro running Windows it was still pretty good and very playable at high detail level.

 

[owbp]

But even if we leave out driver glitches, GUI lags and quotes from blogs, first and foremost, no officially supported card will boot you into black screen on your Mac.
That's the main reason that I don't see Maxwell and Pascal GPU's officially supported.

Don't get me wrong, big thanks to Nvidia for providing drivers and MVC for making the EFI for us, but until Apple and Nvidia find a way to provide us with just a basic VGA output in newly installed or updated OS (or workaround without using second GPU or terminal/single user mode - c'mon it's macOS), there is nothing official about it.

 

[Squuiid]

Here's an interesting snippet from the Little Snitch website regarding NVIDIA web driver:
https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/compatibility-notes.html#high-sierra

NVIDIA provided Graphics Drivers
The NVIDIA graphics drivers (as opposed to the original drivers provided by Apple) need to load program code into running apps. Little Snitch and other apps like iBooks do not allow this due to security reasons. When the Map View or the Inspector is open, Little Snitch Network Monitor cannot render its window contents.

 

[h9826790]

Here's an interesting snippet from the Little Snitch website regarding NVIDIA web driver:
https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/compatibility-notes.html#high-sierra

NVIDIA provided Graphics Drivers
The NVIDIA graphics drivers (as opposed to the original drivers provided by Apple) need to load program code into running apps. Little Snitch and other apps like iBooks do not allow this due to security reasons. When the Map View or the Inspector is open, Little Snitch Network Monitor cannot render its window contents.

This is actually another bug I would like to confirm with the others. I heard this non fixable bug for a few months. However, my iBook seems OK with 1080Ti. May I know if the bug only exist at some particular place. Or it's because I turn both SIP and Gatekeeper OFF, that makes my web driver can work "flawlessly"?

 

[bist]

This is actually another bug I would like to confirm with the others. I heard this non fixable bug for a few months. However, my iBook seems OK with 1080Ti. May I know if the bug only exist at some particular place. Or it's because I turn both SIP and Gatekeeper OFF, that makes my web driver can work "flawlessly"?

Both SIP & Gatekeeper are enabled on my Mac.

Today : iBook & Instruments are working (Nvidia web driver / High Sierra / GTX1070).

Yesterday (some week ago)
- With the Nvidia web driver / Sierra / GTX680 : None of them were working.
- With Apple stock driver : Both were working.

So, something changed, either on Apple's side or on Nvidia's.

 

[Asgorath]

Here's an interesting snippet from the Little Snitch website regarding NVIDIA web driver:
https://www.obdev.at/products/littlesnitch/compatibility-notes.html#high-sierra

NVIDIA provided Graphics Drivers
The NVIDIA graphics drivers (as opposed to the original drivers provided by Apple) need to load program code into running apps. Little Snitch and other apps like iBooks do not allow this due to security reasons. When the Map View or the Inspector is open, Little Snitch Network Monitor cannot render its window contents.

This is a complete inaccurate assessment of the situation. All apps that render things on screen will load a graphics driver. The difference is that apps that use Library Validation would only be allowed to load binaries signed by Apple, including the stock NVIDIA driver. The web driver is signed by NVIDIA and would thus not be allowed to load. High Sierra fixes this, as Apple will now validate the web driver when it is installed and allow it to be used in apps that use Library Validation, like iBooks, Little Snitch and the HS Window Server.

 

[h9826790]

This is a complete inaccurate assessment of the situation. All apps that render things on screen will load a graphics driver. The difference is that apps that use Library Validation would only be allowed to load binaries signed by Apple, including the stock NVIDIA driver. The web driver is signed by NVIDIA and would thus not be allowed to load. High Sierra fixes this, as Apple will now validate the web driver when it is installed and allow it to be used in apps that use Library Validation, like iBooks, Little Snitch and the HS Window Server.

Oh, good to know that. So Apple actually does improve the situation. And the web driver can practically work flawlessly now.

 

[h9826790]

^^^^OK - Your's quote is over 2 years old. Doesn't cover current cards and is certainly obsolete - TWO YEARS is a LIFETIME in GPU years. I'm done arguing with you because you appear to want to argue for the sake of arguing, and that's just not my style.

Lou

In order to end this debate (properly). I opened a ticket last night in Nvidia support page to ask them to confirm if the Pascal card support is official or not in MacOS 10.13.1. And this is their answer (they are really quick).

So, there is no need to determine by ourselves now. Nvidia gave us the answer. I should able to think about this long ago. I always try to look for the official information, but completely forget that I can simply ask them

Anyway, case closed. Until Nvidia say something on this matter again, the driver is not official. It should work, but not officially supported.

 

[Theophany]

Anybody know if Security Update 2017-001 breaks the web drivers?

 

[flehman]

Anybody know if Security Update 2017-001 breaks the web drivers?

Let’s hope not...the story on the front page says that the update will be AUTOMATICALLY installed starting later today. If it changes the build number a lot of cMPs running web drivers could get borked. I may have to turn off WiFi for a few days?!

 

[pierrox]

Anybody know if Security Update 2017-001 breaks the web drivers?

It probably will because on its download page it says:
"When you install Security Update 2017-001 on your Mac, the build number of macOS will be 17B1002."

And when the build number changes, the Nvidia extension refuses to load as it's made for a specific build.

 

[Asgorath]

Anybody know if Security Update 2017-001 breaks the web drivers?

100% yes it will, and 100% NVIDIA will have a new driver out within 24 hours to match the new OS build number. This has been standard operating procedure for a very long time now, as discussed in the OP.

 

[bsbeamer]

Anybody know if Security Update 2017-001 breaks the web drivers?

Yes, can 100% confirm that it does.

This statement will be very concerning for some:
"Starting later today, Apple said the security update will be automatically installed on all Macs running macOS High Sierra 10.13.1."

 

[Theophany]

Mine has automatically installed and all is good. Looks like I'm not restarting until the new web drivers are released...