Frequently Asked Questions About NVIDIA PC (non-EFI) Graphics Cards

[Asgorath]

If Apple goes out of their way to prevent Nvidia from writing drivers for macOS, they would be preventing competition. Anti-competitive.

It's Apple's platform, there are no official NVIDIA products for macOS anymore. I'd be surprised if the government got involved here. Moot point really.

In the past, Nvidia released drivers without Pascal support for many months after Pascal cards were released. Why can't drivers be releases sans Turing drivers until Turing drivers are ready? They've done it this way in the past.

This is exactly my point. For some reason, NVIDIA hasn't released a 10.14 web driver with the same amount of hardware support as 10.13. Your hypothesis is that NVIDIA pulled their entire macOS team to help ship Turing for Windows. My hypothesis is that the relationship between the two companies has degraded to the point where Apple isn't as helpful as they have been in the past, up to and including not giving NVIDIA the required software bits they need to write drivers for 10.14. I don't really know that you can just take a macOS driver engineer who has worked on Metal and have them be effective working on DirectX/Windows in a short amount of time, the two OSes and APIs are completely different. As always, we'll never really know because neither company will go into detail about why there's a delay.

Yes, Apple shouldn't care whether or not Nvidia releases drivers. That's why I have a hard time believing that Apple is hindering Nvidia in any way.

My point is that Apple is now busy with other products (iOS, macOS products featuring Intel and AMD, etc). Why should Apple spend resources to help NVIDIA out? What business reason do they have to spend time and effort helping NVIDIA? They still don't even allow NVIDIA GPUs to work in an eGPU enclosure.

I guess my real point is that I'm not surprised by the delay, and I think it does not bode well for the future of NVIDIA on macOS. If Apple is more at fault here than NVIDIA, I think it'll only get worse as time goes on.

 

[h9826790]

I find this hard to believe too. Withholding such info would clearly be anti-competitive behavior and open up Apple to being sued not just by Nvidia but also the government. It would also place Apple under the scrutiny of macOS users. This is one conspiracy theory that I just can not subscribe to.

My guess is that Nvidia diverted all manpower to making Turing work right in Windows and macOS took a back seat.

I don't think Apple have to release any info about GPU driver development to Nvidia. Just like Nvidia don't need to release any info about CUDA driver developement to anyone else (it's also a kind of GPU driver).

In OS point of view, iOS is a well known close system. Is that anti-competitive? I don't think so. Then why Apple make macOS "close" will become anti-competitive?
[doublepost=1539128344][/doublepost]

I don't really know that you can just take a macOS driver engineer who has worked on Metal and have them be effective working on DirectX/Windows in a short amount of time, the two OSes and APIs are completely different. As always, we'll never really know because neither company will go into detail about why there's a delay.

This is what I believe as well. I work in another professional area, and I don't think it's so easy to move a whole team to work on another project. Even just move some manpower away is not that simple. Because most staff only has the required skill / knowledge in their responsible area. Move them to a new department may actually drag down the speed and quality, not necessary making things better (unless they only need raw no brainer's manpower, but I doubt).

 

[flowrider]

In the past, Nvidia released drivers without Pascal support for many months after Pascal cards were released. Why can't drivers be releases sans Turing drivers until Turing drivers are ready? They've done it this way in the past.

Nvidia already did have an aborted release of a Web Driver that included the new architecture, the 108 driver for HS that I am using, but that so many folks had trouble with. As we all know, that driver was pulled. So, IMO, they have some history with the coding of drivers for the Turing and Volta chips now.

Lou

 

[pastrychef]

I don't think Apple have to release any info about GPU driver development to Nvidia. Just like Nvidia don't need to release any info about CUDA driver developement to anyone else (it's also a kind of GPU driver).

In OS point of view, iOS is a well known close system. Is that anti-competitive? I don't think so. Then why Apple make macOS "close" will become anti-competitive?

Once Apple included the App Store to iOS, as long as an app follows rules, they can't deny an app from being sold. In macOS, there's even less restriction since Nvidia doesn't have to go through the App Store.

 

[Asgorath]

Once Apple included the App Store to iOS, as long as an app follows rules, they can't deny an app from being sold. In macOS, there's even less restriction since Nvidia doesn't have to go through the App Store.

Apple exposes everything an app developer needs in order to write an app for iOS. Apple does not expose (to the public) everything that is needed in order to write a graphics driver for macOS. As I said, we'll never know for sure, but I definitely think it's plausible that Apple hasn't been as forthcoming with that private API information and that it's slowing down the release of the Mojave driver.

 

[pastrychef]

Apple exposes everything an app developer needs in order to write an app for iOS. Apple does not expose (to the public) everything that is needed in order to write a graphics driver for macOS. As I said, we'll never know for sure, but I definitely think it's plausible that Apple hasn't been as forthcoming with that private API information and that it's slowing down the release of the Mojave driver.

Yup. I guess we will never know. I just personally don't believe this theory and place blame on the lack of Nvidia drivers solely on Nvidia.

 

[Asgorath]

Yup. I guess we will never know. I just personally don't believe this theory and place blame on the lack of Nvidia drivers solely on Nvidia.

Right, either way the end result is the same -- we still don't have a web driver for Mojave. I also think either way that this is a sign of things to come, I've been saying for a long time that I wouldn't recommend buying an NVIDIA GPU for macOS unless you really need CUDA or something. I personally switched over to Windows 10 a few years back, and haven't even booted up my Hackintosh in well over a year at this point. If the situation resolves itself and we get quick releases of high-quality drivers with things like native eGPU support (no hacks required) then I might feel more comfortable recommending an NVIDIA GPU for macOS, but given Apple's close relationship with AMD I just think you're asking for trouble if you were to buy an NVIDIA GPU right now.

 

[pastrychef]

Right, either way the end result is the same -- we still don't have a web driver for Mojave. I also think either way that this is a sign of things to come, I've been saying for a long time that I wouldn't recommend buying an NVIDIA GPU for macOS unless you really need CUDA or something. I personally switched over to Windows 10 a few years back, and haven't even booted up my Hackintosh in well over a year at this point. If the situation resolves itself and we get quick releases of high-quality drivers with things like native eGPU support (no hacks required) then I might feel more comfortable recommending an NVIDIA GPU for macOS, but given Apple's close relationship with AMD I just think you're asking for trouble if you were to buy an NVIDIA GPU right now.

Same for me. I experienced severe lag with he Nvidia web drivers from High Sierra 10.13.0 to 10.13.3 and threw in the towel. Sold my GTX 1080 and replaced it with a Vega 56. I've also stopped recommending Nvidia cards for use in macOS.

I really hope Nvidia gets their act together. I really like the hardware, unfortunately, it's all useless without reliable drivers. They could also use some better communications with their users.

 

[Martini78usa]

Hi guys. Every time I get this message from CUDA.
Always updated but each boot the message appears again. Any solution?
Another question: My Original Nvidia video card run on 5.0 GT/s, But my GTX650 Ti Boost not. Any solution too?
Tx!

 

[navaira]

Boo, I saw the thread getting a bump and thought "praised be Gods, NVidia FINALLY released Mojito drivers"...

 

[bsbeamer]

Hi guys. Every time I get this message from CUDA.
Always updated but each boot the message appears again. Any solution?
Another question: My Original Nvidia video card run on 5.0 GT/s, But my GTX650 Ti Boost not. Any solution too?
Tx!

Are you using the macOS default graphics driver or the NVIDIA Web Driver selected from the NVIDIA driver manager? CUDA ONLY works with the NVIDIA driver. You'll get that warning when using the default driver. (From the driver number you're loading, looks like it's the default driver being used & loaded at startup.)

 

[BillyBobBongo]

Boo, I saw the thread getting a bump and thought "praised be Gods, NVidia FINALLY released Mojito drivers"...

macOS Mojito
Minimum requirements: 2 cl RUM
Recommended requirements: 4 cl RUM

 

[Martini78usa]

Are you using the macOS default graphics driver or the NVIDIA Web Driver selected from the NVIDIA driver manager? CUDA ONLY works with the NVIDIA driver. You'll get that warning when using the default driver. (From the driver number you're loading, looks like it's the default driver being used & loaded at startup.)

How can I get the webdriver?
My card is a EVGA Geforce GTX 650 Ti Boost.

 

[bsbeamer]

How can I get the webdriver?

What OS version and build number?

 

[Martini78usa]

What OS version and build number?

NOW is everything fine. I found the web driver. Tks for let me know about that.

 

[Socket]

have you seen this?

 

[Synchro3]

have you seen this?

!

Quote:

- Hi Brennan, this is Charles from Create Pro. If you have at least the 138.0.0.0.0 bootrom on your Mac Pro the RTX cards have native EFI support.
- Does not work with 9xx or 10xx cards.


Does anyone have an RTX 2080 Founders Edition to retrace this claim?

 

[howiest]

Boo, I saw the thread getting a bump and thought "praised be Gods, NVidia FINALLY released Mojito drivers"...

Mojito! ha ha ha I'll never call it Mojave ever again! lol

 

[macsforme]

!

Quote:

- Hi Brennan, this is Charles from Create Pro. If you have at least the 138.0.0.0.0 bootrom on your Mac Pro the RTX cards have native EFI support.
- Does not work with 9xx or 10xx cards.


Does anyone have an RTX 2080 Founders Edition to retrace this claim?

If this is for real then it’s huge news.

 

[Speedstar]

Funny sh&/#% making Nvidia@Mac-fans crazy , look at the background there is a MacBook which might be connected to the screen, and firmware number 138.x.x is proofed not to have any changed code which is in Mac Pro 2013.It's graphic-cards do not have Efi-boot-rom-menu
There is no AMD fire EFI-bootrom for D300,D500,D700
Boot menu is in firmware included
In Mac Pro 6.1

It is proofed that the guys from create Pro oh whatever are not guys who made the video.

I think AVID didn't make any software compatible with Mojave in time why blame Nvidia.
This operating system has nothing important to offer ,
Dark gui, please it's not enough ...

During the lifetime of Steve Jobs
Apple delivered new software with new operating system that had benefits, I haven't seen any metal version of Final Cut X or Motion or Blasing fast metal 2 compressor SINCE Os X 10.11!!!
Please do not write that in Final Cut X there is 1 "ONE" filter which can use metal instead of openCL

Me I personally would prefer
A working Driver for HS 10.13.6 multiGPU support

I do not want to be forced to APFS, ZFS was such a good thing for Snow Leopard

Mojave is Apples new WEB-Shop !!

 

[h9826790]

Funny sh&/#% making Nvidia@Mac-fans crazy , look at the background there is a MacBook which might be connected to the screen, and firmware number 138.x.x is proofed not to have any changed code which is in Mac Pro 2013.It's graphic-cards do not have Efi-boot-rom-menu
There is no AMD fire EFI-bootrom for D300,D500,D700
Boot menu is in firmware included
In Mac Pro 6.1

It is proofed that the guys from create Pro oh whatever are not guys who made the video.

I think AVID didn't make any software compatible with Mojave in time why blame Nvidia.
This operating system has nothing important to offer ,
Dark gui, please it's not enough ...

During the lifetime of Steve Jobs
Apple delivered new software with new operating system that had benefits, I haven't seen any metal version of Final Cut X or Motion or Blasing fast metal 2 compressor SINCE Os X 10.11!!!
Please do not write that in Final Cut X there is 1 "ONE" filter which can use metal instead of openCL

Me I personally would prefer
A working Driver for HS 10.13.6 multiGPU support

I do not want to be forced to APFS, ZFS was such a good thing for Snow Leopard

Mojave is Apples new WEB-Shop !!

Obviously it's not any "Funny sh&/#%" because MVC tested it already.

And Fl0r!an found the EFI UGA definition inside the RTX 2080 ROM image.

 

[Asgorath]

Same for me. I experienced severe lag with he Nvidia web drivers from High Sierra 10.13.0 to 10.13.3 and threw in the towel. Sold my GTX 1080 and replaced it with a Vega 56. I've also stopped recommending Nvidia cards for use in macOS.

I really hope Nvidia gets their act together. I really like the hardware, unfortunately, it's all useless without reliable drivers. They could also use some better communications with their users.

If NVIDIA really has included an EFI on all the Turing cards but still hasn't released a driver, then I think this lends more weight to my suggestion that the hold up is on Apple's side, not NVIDIA's side. Why would they bother enabling boot screens on 8-year old Mac Pro systems if they weren't planning on providing drivers for the cards in a reasonable time frame?

 

[zoomfinder]

In a bigger picture, wouldn’t this put NVIDIA in direct competetion with Apple?

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/self-driving-cars/

Everyone is going all out for driverless hardware, so to speak.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Samsung is in direct competition with Apple on a few fronts, mainly phones. We all know Samsung is, AFAIK, is the top supplier for parts for the iPhone.

Lou

 

[Theophany]

If NVIDIA really has included an EFI on all the Turing cards but still hasn't released a driver, then I think this lends more weight to my suggestion that the hold up is on Apple's side, not NVIDIA's side. Why would they bother enabling boot screens on 8-year old Mac Pro systems if they weren't planning on providing drivers for the cards in a reasonable time frame?

Do we know for sure Apple has to sign off on the drivers? Is it a case that Apple's blessing means that they are permitted by SIP without any required kext mods?