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Galaxy S5 sold 40 percent fewer units than Samsung predicted: WSJ
- Thread starter Rogifan
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I am not sure if you actually believe this or are just parroting what others say. Do you also believe the reviews also let it slide by on name?
Sure it can. Honestly as I've noted before, I'm not sure WTF MicroSoft is doing out there as if anyone could potentially hurt Android it would be them. They have the user base in the PC Market, their Tablet/PC products are solid and poised to replace iPads as a single device in businesses, and their phones/hardware isn't crap either. They too just need a visionary to tie it all together.
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I agree. I have a Sony KDL55W900A LED TV and it's well known for being the most color accurate 1080P LED's made with the widest color gamut available. Rave reviews for it. Our newer Sony 4k also holds simliar honors. I've personally color calibrated both and the 900A was spot-on right out of the box.
Link to show that Samsung gained high-end sales (Note 3, GS5, GS4) in the US. Since the sales were so bad, I don't recall Samsung even releasing the numbers. In fact they haven't released any numbers at all since shortly after the GS4 launched in 2013. I'd wager that those "gained sales" were also more low end low profit devices. It's not like Samsung doesn't sell cheap phones here too. Remember, Xiaomi and Lenovo don't sell here yet so Samsung still has the junk market to themselves for now.
Also until the Q4 numbers are released we won't really know what impact the iPhone 6 has had on Samsung. If you thought Q3 was bad then you're certainly in for a big surprise for Q4. To put it in possible perspective for you, Apple is anticipated to have sell nearly 80 million iPhones in Q4 while Samsung shipped an estimated 82 million in Q4 2013. With sales expected to be much lower this year, we could possibly see Apple sell more high-end devices this quarter than Samsung sells total devices (high-end and low-end).
Your chart is useless for this discussion. Marketshare doesn't equal profits nor company sustainability. If Samsung is making most of its profit from the sale of high-end devices, then how does Xiaomi taking low-end share from them cause a 70% profit decline? The fact that their shipment volume numbers are high just shows that they're still selling a lot of cheap devices but the sales of their true profit generators (Note, GS5, GS4) are down. Credit to the Chinese manufacturers, they're tearing Samsung up at the low-end, but don't try to act as if Apple isn't also eating their lunch (the vast majority of it) at the high-end. Xiaomi and Lenovo are mainly hitting them on marketshare, Apple is hitting them in profit margin, the metric which actually matters.
As far as who sells the most total phones, it's largely irrelevant. These companies are in it for profit not for volume. Selling tons of low-end, low-profit devices doesn't a healthy company make. Just look at Dell, HP, and current Samsung. High volume and marketshare couldn't save Dell from having to buyback all of his shares from shareholders and restructure. It's not saving Samsung from scrambling to change leadership and focus right now. Buying marketshare never did any company any good in the long term. That's why their profits are hurting right now. Samsung would love to sell as many GS5's and Note 4's as Apple does iPhones.
What Microsoft needs, is what all the Apple naysayers always complain that Apple does - market their devices right. They keep trying t prove that they are better than Apple at doing things. Stop - just show what your device CAN do, instead of what it does better than the competition. Also, no more boardroom/park dancing videos. While they might seem "hip", again, they don't tell me what the device does because of the distractions.
Boards of companies realize that ASP's are falling. That's true in many markets, especially electronics and consumer electronics like phones. When that happens you have to streamline production, control costs and sell higher quantities. No different than they did with TV's. Nothing new here for Samsung.
I've already noted that Apple was smart to go for more profit vs larger volumes. That does put them in a nice position. However, that doesn't insulate them from lack of market share and the impact that will have. Just like Samsung, they need to find the next big thing. I think we'll see them make a decision in the tablet space first.
Being poised to replace iPads and actually executing that successfully are two different things. If I had to get a non-IOS tablet it would be a windows tablet though.
I've been on the fence about adding a Surface Pro to the mix at my house, but I disagree that it's an iPad replacement. For most it's a better notebook replacement that can also be used as a tablet in a pinch.
The problem for me is that in tablet/slate mode it is just too heavy to replace the iPad Air or iPad mini. The extra 0.75 lbs just kills it for me. I've tried to love it and played with one extensively at the Microsoft store, but it just can't replace a 1lb device when used as a tablet/slate.
It's a great trade for my work Lenovo T431s though as I can get about the same level of computer power in half the weight.
(I own a Dell DVP8 though as it was cheap enough to buy and test).
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I say the above based on two reasons. One, we have several iPads in our house and while they are nice, the new Lenovo we added is a bit nice because it's a total PC and not much larger by any means. Yes, the iPads are still good for quick grab consumption of web stuff.
Two is at work, I know our IT Dept likes the iPad for it's simplicity and lack of real support from the worker bees but they do want a reduction in devices overall and are leaning towards surfaces that can be used in the field just as easily.
Agree, but the sizes are coming down and soon I don't think that will be an issue.
The tablet thing is pretty interesting. Other than competing on price there doesn't seem to be much Apple can do to increase growth in the segment. I see the rumors about the 12" iPad but I don't think that's the answer either. The market seems to have matured and plateaued rather quickly. They're just not as much a necessity as smartphones.
The surface does look interesting but like said above it's too heavy to replace an iPad or Android tablet. It seems pretty good as a light laptop replacement though.
I guess it's a difficult choice on where to take tablets next. Apple knows that if the iPad is too functional and can replace the Mac for too many people then they will be cannibalizing their own sales.
I'm not sure that there's much they can do to jump start iPad growth. 12" iPad isn't it and a Surface-like hybrid isn't it either.
The surface does look interesting but like said above it's too heavy to replace an iPad or Android tablet. It seems pretty good as a light laptop replacement though.
I guess it's a difficult choice on where to take tablets next. Apple knows that if the iPad is too functional and can replace the Mac for too many people then they will be cannibalizing their own sales.
I'm not sure that there's much they can do to jump start iPad growth. 12" iPad isn't it and a Surface-like hybrid isn't it either.
People are already making the price choice by going with more and more lower priced Android Tablets, thus it's a matter of time for the PC's to edge in there as people look to replace laptops at home and see that they are dropping in price and offer a lot more overall, they will like us, likely choose a solid, sleek $700 notebook/tablet vs another iPad.
In business, it's likely going to be the same way. IT depts would love to reduce the number of devices and as traditional laptops are replaced with tablet style ones for lower prices, they will be re-thinking the need for an iPad in the field.
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I'm not sure what the wieght differences are but my wife chose a $700 i5 Lenovo a few months back and it's been great for her. She likes the iPad but overall really enjoys the experience she's used to with a PC. Touchscreen, voice commands, relatively small size, it's all in a great package that she likes. Battery life is amazing too. She gets several days of casual use from a single charge.
Here it is in comparison to my iPad with a simple Logitec Keyboard.
Bingo. Just the same, that's the corner they painted themselves into with the iPhone. They would hate to be in the situation Samsung is where ASP's would fall.
People are already making the price choice by going with more and more lower priced Android Tablets, thus it's a matter of time for the PC's to edge in there as people look to replace laptops at home and see that they are dropping in price and offer a lot more overall, they will like us, likely choose a solid, sleek $700 notebook/tablet vs another iPad.
In business, it's likely going to be the same way. IT depts would love to reduce the number of devices and as traditional laptops are replaced with tablet style ones for lower prices, they will be re-thinking the need for an iPad in the field.
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I'm not sure what the wieght differences are but my wife chose a $700 i5 Lenovo a few months back and it's been great for her. She likes the iPad but overall really enjoys the experience she's used to with a PC. Touchscreen, voice commands, relatively small size, it's all in a great package that she likes. Battery life is amazing too. She gets several days of casual use from a single charge.
Here it is in comparison to my iPad with a simple Logitec Keyboard.
Bingo. Just the same, that's the corner they painted themselves into with the iPhone. They would hate to be in the situation Samsung is where ASP's would fall.
i dont know what people are doing, however if lower priced android tablets are king, not samsung, not apple, not microsoft will be increasing their revenue in the tablet market.
IT departments who are invested with apple will stick with ipad as i see it due to the high level of support afforded by apple.
the use cases between computers, laptops, tablets, phatablets and phones are way to complex to make a blanket statement such as ipad will steal market share from its computers. and i would hate to be in the same painted corner as apple. imagine 700B market cap. Yep some corner they painted themselves into.
I know one major insurance company that isn't. They are moving to non-ipads so they can support fewer devices both in terms of support calls and costs reasons.
Maybe, but I think the point is where does Apple go in terms of product evolution while avoiding cannibalizing their own PC's.
You ride that horse a lot. It's like you're go-to out. Funny.
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Did you not read the very first post of this thread? It says samsung gained in the usa
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I'd be all over a 1-1.2 lb version of something as good as the Surface Pro 3 even if that meant it had an 8-10" screen.
Problem is that when the sizes come down enough, the iPad will also have improved. The SP3 weighs about as much as an iPad 1 from 2010, but that's not what it's compared against today.
Nothing is standing still!
EDIT: Apple has demonstrated time and time again that they aren't afraid of abandoning entire profitable areas with new products that cannibalize market share from existing ones. Why would that change now? The MBA competed with and ultimately replaced the Macbook. The iPod classic is gone. etc.. etc...
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It's a false comparison.
Apple does have insulation to a high extent due to the sticky ecosystem, halo effect, and a very engaged consumer base that consumes tons of video, music, apps and services.
It's very different than what goes on in the android sphere, and why it is harder for android handset makers to make a buck, while Apple trucks along without a care, and is largely unopposed in their business model.
This piece, "Android Users Don't Know Enough to Matter", really sums it up; why total market share for android is meaningless, and how Samsung can sell a lot of units and still lose money.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/11586384/1/android-users-dont-know-enough-to-matter.html
But it didn't say what they gained. Increased sales of the Galaxy Light are different from increased sales of the GS4, GS5, or Note 3. Judging from the profit decline it's likely that it was an increase in low-end sales like the Galaxy Light or Galaxy Centura.
I know some major financial institutions(as I have a wide circle) that are imvesting more in Apple because of support infrastructure. I guess we could play this game all day long.
I ride the market cap "horse" a lot, as you say, is because in these threads it is lost sight of what matters. Revenue and profit. The smallest nits are debated and victory is awarded based on the smallest inconsequential item(sic), when in reality the war is won on the trading floor.
I like how people call Apple supporters out for "riding" the market cap horse a lot, but then they turn right around and "ride" the Android market share horse as if it's not the same thing.
Companies live and die off profits, not market share. Market share is a potential road to profitability, but once you drop prices to try and gain market share, it's going to be a tough sell to raise those prices again to gain profits. Just look at the feedback that Google received when raising the price on the Nexus 6 from the Nexus 5.
I disagree. iPad sales are dropping, iOS is not gaining marketshare and they have gaps in areas of the market that they aren't filling even with the attempt to come out with a lower priced phone lineup. I'd also add in that iTunes sales are dropping fast as they are being eaten up by other offerings for downloads but mainly streaming services. Not to mention that the sticky ecosystem is floating on a PC Sales base that while doing better pales in comparison to Windows in the market and Cloud Services are a dime a dozen if not free. Apps in the Play Store are also very much on-par...unless you're a teen into gaming.
To say they truck along without a care is not likely accurate. They no doubt have solid plans but they too have impacts outside of their control. If Google continues down the path of hardware and begins to dominate then you bet they will have a bit more concerns.
One thing is for sure, while the game on TV that is fun to watch is Samsung vs Apple, their real competitor IMO lies within the company that owns 85% of the market of Mobile Operating Systems. They are just lucky that the sleeping giant has other areas of interest vs dominating the phone / hardware space. Like Apple, they really don't have much to worry about in terms of OS proliferation.
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I am with you on this! Hopefully the SP3 can mature evolve a little and get a little thinner while increasing battery life. I would get one in a heart beat.
They aren't the same thing. One is riding a relatively small but rich horse that has a limited market, the other is a Big Horse riding a huge market. Alll companies are looking for the next big thing but the one who hits it with the larger market share to tap into will do much better. Apple is pretty limited in that space in comparison.
All their riches are doing little for me as a consumer when I'm still offered the same choices as i was several years ago at the same or higher prices. No thanks, as a consumer I much prefer the Android world where competition is driving real change both in terms of offerings but also pricing.
about the same flack that Apple gets for over charging for a increased storage on their iPhones.
Google? Path to hardware? They sold Motorola to Lenovo you know. They are back to depending on partners for hardware and that's tricky business IMO.
Not that that means they're in trouble by any means, but just that they are following a more Microsoft-y model. We provide the OS, OEMs provide the hardware...
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You say there are all these drops and declines...yet it's not reflected in Apple's ability to make money and hit that $700 billion market cap. Where's the disconnect?
Android phones have like an 85% global market share, and Google just dumped their mobile division. What are you predicting exactly?
Problem is, the Android horse is a tiny pony, that's barely eating enough to stay healthy (profit wise). If Google were to decide that they needed to charge for licensing, due to increased pressure from Microsoft and Apple, then prices have to go up across the board, or the razor thin profit margin for partners will be even worse.
Apple is increasing profits at the same time, and building up a huge nest egg, in order to weather any downturn that might come up. Plus, they are already looking ahead and slowly moving into new markets.
Oh, and Apple will ALWAYS be dinged for "over charging". Until people stop paying those prices, why would Apple want to stop charging them? That's just good business.
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