Galaxy S5 sold 40 percent fewer units than Samsung predicted: WSJ

[FFR]

And that is precisely the problem with the android model. Too many manufacturers and nobody controls their own software. All they do is add meaningless and pointless skin to there models to differentiate themselves from others. By contrast Apple controls the hardware and the software.

What will happen overtime is that these companies Will cannibalize each other and the average selling price of Android phones will keep going down.

This happened before in the PC market. The smart phone market would like to be a replay of the PC market.

That's actually what's happening right now.
Samsung is being cannibalized by the iPhone 6 and 6 plus on the high end and with xiaomi and opo on the low end.

Try to stay on topic some posters here try their best to derail this thread.

----------

First, that link doesn't say that the market is unsustainable as you said and in the case of smartphone market is just the contrary of that, it is still growing so I still don't understand your claims, you contradict yourself

He is not contradiction himself.

You don't understand that the smartphone market is growing but samsungs shipments are shrinking due to lack of demand, and Samsung android inventory is piling up just like in the of pc market?

I think the tally was 4 million Galaxy s5 unsold sitting in warehouses. I wonder how many note 4's are piling up there as we speak.

 

[nj1266]

First, that link doesn't say that the market is unsustainable as you said and in the case of smartphone market is just the contrary of that, it is still growing so I still don't understand your claims, you contradict yourself

So seven quarters of continuous decline in sales is sustainable in your view? The smartphone market is maturing and will soon face the same problem of the PC market. And just like the MAC computers and PCs survived the decline in profits so will the iPhone survive the decline in the smartphone market. The similarities between the two markets are simply to obvious to ignore.

 

[Oletros]

He is not contradiction himself.

You don't understand that the smartphone market is growing but samsungs shipments are shrinking due to lack of demand, and Samsung android inventory is piling up just like in the of pc market?

I think the tally was 4 million Galaxy s5 unsold sitting in warehouses. I wonder how many note 4's are piling up there as we speak.

You don't understand that the OP was talking about the WHOLE Android market and not only Samsung?

----------

So seven quarters of continuous decline in sales is sustainable in your view? The smartphone market is maturing and will soon face the same problem of the PC market. And just like the MAC computers and PCs survived the decline in profits so will the iPhone survive the decline in the smartphone market. The similarities between the two markets are simply to obvious to ignore.

Yes, yes, yes, Android markers will all disappear like all the PC makers have disappeared. The only company surviving will be Apple.

Happy now?

And seven quarters of decline in sales doesn't mean that they are not sustainable, it says that they have less revenue, nothing more. But yes, if you want to believe that the only company surviving isd Apple I won't break your own reality, believe what you want. In 5 years we will see.

 

[Technarchy]

Lets not forget Samsung is pretty massive, and has plenty of money and resources.

I'd expect some big changes in 2015.

Though those changes need to include a smaller, more focused, more competitive, more polished product line that is better supported.

And Samsung really needs to get their head out of Apple's rear end, and watch what's going on in the whole industry.

While they were so focused on Apple, plenty of companies snuck up and started eating Samsung's lunch for them.

 

[ravipiero]

So seven quarters of continuous decline in sales is sustainable in your view? The smartphone market is maturing and will soon face the same problem of the PC market. And just like the MAC computers and PCs survived the decline in profits so will the iPhone survive the decline in the smartphone market. The similarities between the two markets are simply to obvious to ignore.

IMO declining in PC market has something to do with the availability of substitute products (smartphone and especially tablets). I think unless there are new substitute product to smartphone, smartphone market will continue to increase or at least remain the same in the future.

 

[pdqgp]

First, that link doesn't say that the market is unsustainable as you said and in the case of smartphone market is just the contrary of that, it is still growing so I still don't understand your claims, you contradict yourself

^^ this. The PC market is fine. The only think hurting it is the tablet/mobile market. The winners are evolving and keeping up. Others won't. That's life. The reality is most all manufacturers are not going to be able to keep price points of smart phones where they are. Samsung played it out and lost on a prediction. Not the end of the world for them. It's not the first time for this to happen to them or any company.

Apple won't continue it for long either. It's already evident in that their growth isn't keeping pack with the market and thus why you see iOS lagging so far behind android. Great product in the iPhone and iOS, no doubt, and they are smart for choosing to play in the land of the most profitable vs the biggest. I would too. In the end though, just like their PC's, price-point will be a limiting factor.

 

[I7guy]

The comp is alot better now and that's not even apple. It's all the other top android phones.

Apple has a cult so no matter how bad the upgrade it could be apple will always sell more flagships ..that won't change

Enlightening post. Thank you.

 

[I7guy]

^^ this. The PC market is fine. The only think hurting it is the tablet/mobile market. The winners are evolving and keeping up. Others won't. That's life. The reality is most all manufacturers are not going to be able to keep price points of smart phones where they are. Samsung played it out and lost on a prediction. Not the end of the world for them. It's not the first time for this to happen to them or any company.

Apple won't continue it for long either. It's already evident in that their growth isn't keeping pack with the market and thus why you see iOS lagging so far behind android. Great product in the iPhone and iOS, no doubt, and they are smart for choosing to play in the land of the most profitable vs the biggest. I would too. In the end though, just like their PC's, price-point will be a limiting factor.

Apple doesn't care, it's market cap just hit 700B. Ios will never keep pace when android handsets are given away virtually for free in a lot of the world. Find me an Apple investor that actually cares about IOS market share. You can't. It's only an Internet forum talking point.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The comp is alot better now and that's not even apple. It's all the other top android phones.

Apple has a cult so no matter how bad the upgrade it could be apple will always sell more flagships ..that won't change

Cult status is what all manufacturers dream of including Samsung so I suppose this foundation Apple built has meant along with great products, the popularity keeps them in the minds of consumers. I suppose one company focuses on a few products and the other is a mass producer so cult status and the point they joined the market race has an impact on that.

 

[The Game 161]

Cult status is what all manufacturers dream of including Samsung so I suppose this foundation Apple built has meant along with great products, the popularity keeps them in the minds of consumers. I suppose one company focuses on a few products and the other is a mass producer so cult status and the point they joined the market race has an impact on that.

Yeah I never said it's a bad thing. .

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yeah I never said it's a bad thing. .

I never assumed you did. I was just adding to your point

 

[mib1800]

Cult status is what all manufacturers dream of including Samsung so I suppose this foundation Apple built has meant along with great products, the popularity keeps them in the minds of consumers. I suppose one company focuses on a few products and the other is a mass producer so cult status and the point they joined the market race has an impact on that.

Sony TV were once have cult status too. Look at where they are now. People just won't be fooled over and over. You can't continue to sell at premium prices with mediocre specs. Just like iphone now.

 

[jamezr]

Sony TV were once have cult status too. Look at where they are now. People just won't be fooled over and over. You can't continue to sell at premium prices with mediocre specs. Just like iphone now.

Great point.......then add to it an very buggy operating system. IOS8 is a very buggy mobile OS.....

 

[CEmajr]

Sony TV were once have cult status too. Look at where they are now. People just won't be fooled over and over. You can't continue to sell at premium prices with mediocre specs. Just like iphone now.

Your failure to grasp an understanding of what the average consumer actually cares about is mind-boggling.

How many people go into a store and ask which phone has the most cores? Or the most RAM? Outside of forum geeks, most people don't even know or care what that stuff means.

Consumers care about the end experience. How the device performs in the real world. If a person sees an iPhone 6 running circles around similarly priced Androids then he will say it's faster. People don't buy phones based off specs. It's about actual performance. That's why Apple continues to sell tons of iPhones every quarter.

And spare us the "if Apple doesn't start adding triple-cores and 4GB of RAM..." crap or their sales will start declining. It's the same stuff that's been repeated in 2011, 2012, 2013, etc. Yet Apple keeps selling more iPhones every year.

The only thing that people are no longer fooled by is Samsung's marketing. As their massive sales and profit declines indicate. It was only so long they could keep selling based off billions in aggressive marketing spending. Despite their impressive numbers on the spec sheet, the end user experience wasn't good enough to backup the marketing hype and the octa-cores and 3GB of RAM couldn't save them.

 

[pdqgp]

The only thing that people are no longer fooled by is Samsung's marketing. As their massive sales and profit declines indicate. It was only so long they could keep selling based off billions in aggressive marketing spending. Despite their impressive numbers on the spec sheet, the end user experience wasn't good enough to backup the marketing hype and the octa-cores and 3GB of RAM couldn't save them.

worldwide it isn't about consumers not buying into what Samsung is selling, it's that what they offer is being challenged in terms of overall value from all the others competing with them. again, they have lost share but not in any measurable amount to Apple.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Sony TV were once have cult status too. Look at where they are now. People just won't be fooled over and over. You can't continue to sell at premium prices with mediocre specs. Just like iphone now.

You obviously can continue to sell at premium prices but only if the product is very good and I have to disagree with you. The iPhone is far from mediocre. Statements such as yours are insulting and judgemental of people, simply because they don't buy the same product you do. Nobody is being 'fooled' and forced to buy the iPhone. It sells well because it is an excellent option in the mass smartphone market. There is room for Samsung and its closest Android rivals and also Apple. They appeal to different tastes and not everybody gives a damn what is written down on a spec sheet. If in the future the iPhone does start to become mediocre, then your statement may hold some water.

If you could see past your own bias and give credit, then this wouldn't be a problem to comprehend.

 

[pdqgp]

Apple doesn't care, it's market cap just hit 700B. Ios will never keep pace when android handsets are given away virtually for free in a lot of the world. Find me an Apple investor that actually cares about IOS market share. You can't. It's only an Internet forum talking point.

You're right, investors don't care because when the lack of penetration and market share impact sales, they will just shift their investment money elsewhere. Yep, just talking points on forums like their stock prices and profits which don't help me the consumer when my iOS craps out or my $750 spend gets me the same old iPhone of years gone by.

However, that doesn't mean market share isn't important. It most certainly is, especially to Apple. They built their success on an ecosystem that is integrated. They are losing growth / share in the tablet space and if they don't continue to gain share in the mobile phone space that ecosystem is going to be less valuable and less important as there will be more and more people who have non iOS tablets and Phones.
----------

Nobody is being 'fooled' and forced to buy the iPhone. It sells well because it is an excellent option in the mass smartphone market. There is room for Samsung and its closest Android rivals and also Apple. They appeal to different tastes and not everybody gives a damn what is written down on a spec sheet.

No one is fooling anyone on anything. There's more than enough room for Samsung is right. So much so that everyone is entering the mobile space and taking their portion of the share. Share that's mainly built on price/value. In the end, I agree, people don't care about specs on a sales-sheet. They care about value and what they get for their money.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Your failure to grasp an understanding of what the average consumer actually cares about is mind-boggling.

How many people go into a store and ask which phone has the most cores? Or the most RAM? Outside of forum geeks, most people don't even know or care what that stuff means.

Consumers care about the end experience. How the device performs in the real world. If a person sees an iPhone 6 running circles around similarly priced Androids then he will say it's faster. People don't buy phones based off specs. It's about actual performance. That's why Apple continues to sell tons of iPhones every quarter.

And spare us the "if Apple doesn't start adding triple-cores and 4GB of RAM..." crap or their sales will start declining. It's the same stuff that's been repeated in 2011, 2012, 2013, etc. Yet Apple keeps selling more iPhones every year.

The only thing that people are no longer fooled by is Samsung's marketing. As their massive sales and profit declines indicate. It was only so long they could keep selling based off billions in aggressive marketing spending. Despite their impressive numbers on the spec sheet, the end user experience wasn't good enough to backup the marketing hype and the octa-cores and 3GB of RAM couldn't save them.

Indeed, user experience is everything. Nerdy geeks comparing specs and how many cores a phone has accounts for very little of the overall market. The only thing that tells these phones apart is the operating system and who enjoys using it. They all do the basic tasks mainstream users need and this is about as far as the comparison goes for most people. I couldn't tell you the spec of my phone? This tit for tat we so often see here is just personal points scoring and has virtually no relevance in the grand scheme of things.

 

[balamw]

MOD NOTE: Please knock off the bickering. Off topic posts removed.

B

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No one is fooling anyone on anything. There's more than enough room for Samsung is right. So much so that everyone is entering the mobile space and taking their portion of the share. Share that's mainly built on price/value. In the end, I agree, people don't care about specs on a sales-sheet. They care about value and what they get for their money.

Exactly. Tech enthusiasts of certain brands care about specs if it trumps a person buying a rival product that they feel is inferior but that is about as far as it goes. In reality a phone is a phone and apart from saying 'oooh a new phone, that's nice' to somebody else, specs are less of a significance. If that is someones thing though, that is fair enough but I hate being told I am fooled into buying something because somebody else thinks my phone is mediocre. I am well qualified to judge what products I like to buy and can make informed choices based on these preferences. I know what phones are out there and what they can do and I am happy with what I have bought.

 

[I7guy]

You're right, investors don't care because when the lack of penetration and market share impact sales, they will just shift their investment money elsewhere. Yep, just talking points on forums like their stock prices and profits which don't help me the consumer when my iOS craps out or my $750 spend gets me the same old iPhone of years gone by.

However, that doesn't mean market share isn't important. It most certainly is, especially to Apple. They built their success on an ecosystem that is integrated. They are losing growth / share in the tablet space and if they don't continue to gain share in the mobile phone space that ecosystem is going to be less valuable and less important as there will be more and more people who have non iOS tablets and Phones.
----------



No one is fooling anyone on anything. There's more than enough room for Samsung is right. So much so that everyone is entering the mobile space and taking their portion of the share. Share that's mainly built on price/value. In the end, I agree, people don't care about specs on a sales-sheet. They care about value and what they get for their money.

So if Apple is losing growth/share how come their market cap just hit an all time high?

Since we're talking if, and, buts and maybes what happens if Samsung dumps their mobile division because they can't make a buck.

It's true apples record market cap doesn't help you when you have an IOS problem, but samsungs declining profits in their mobile business helps you even less if you have an issue with your note 4.

 

[skratch77]

That's actually what's happening right now.
Samsung is being cannibalized by the iPhone 6 and 6 plus on the high end and with xiaomi and opo on the low end.

Try to stay on topic some posters here try their best to derail this thread.

----------




He is not contradiction himself.

You don't understand that the smartphone market is growing but samsungs shipments are shrinking due to lack of demand, and Samsung android inventory is piling up just like in the of pc market?

I think the tally was 4 million Galaxy s5 unsold sitting in warehouses. I wonder how many note 4's are piling up there as we speak.

I just read on idc that samsung shipped/sold 18 million s5 q2 and still sold the most smartphones world wide then any other oem including apple.

It gained sales in the usa so there goes your apple iPhone 6 bull crap.

Samsung is losing volume in the low end and still sold more phones then anyone else so far this year.they are still the market leader in total phones sold and lost market from there spot last year.

Let this chart burn into your brain and look who sold the most phones so far this year.it's still samsung and take a look at the % gain xiaomi made in the low end 211% that is what hit samsung hard not apple.the not 4 only sold 500k less then the note 3 did in the same time frame and that is going up against apple's iPhone 6 and 6+ along with a bunch of awesome other flagship android phones.

 

[pdqgp]

So if Apple is losing growth/share how come their market cap just hit an all time high?

Apple vs Samsung Growth:

they are growing their iPhone sales but at a slower pace than Android devices are selling. investors and their stock value are based on their own growth not how they are fairing overall. that however comes into play once sales slow.

It doesn't surprise me that the Q3 vs Q3 or YOY growth for Apple is up. The iPh6 and iOS8 is a much greater jump in product this year vs last years 5s and iOS 7 was. This is always their quarter of growth too. Samsung however with the S5 and Note 4, meh....not so much of an upgrade to either really. Not IMO anyway. I'm not sure why they expected anything huge other than perhaps just being overally optimistic.

Since we're talking if, and, buts and maybes what happens if Samsung dumps their mobile division because they can't make a buck.

Samsung's Opportunity:

doubtful. Samsung is just going to adjust their production to serve the markets that are in demand. they should have streamlined their lineup years ago. they can and will, no doubt.

It's true apples record market cap doesn't help you when you have an IOS problem, but samsungs declining profits in their mobile business helps you even less if you have an issue with your note 4.

Samsung's Potential Response:

Samsungs problem is a better one for them to have. They can easily adjust production and related costs and markets to target. They make the widgets and components and have a strong ability to control material and production costs as they are using their own people and factories. It would however be much more impactful if they didn't have the demand or growth in the Android space to do it in though. So far however, Android as an OS is evolving and being welcomed by the buying public.

Apples Challenge:

That's Apple's challenge. Great product, definitely a demand now, but if the demand for the OS slumps, so will there net-new hardware sales.

Look at the iPhones Market share (rounding up). In Q3 2013 they had 13% this year they only hold 12%. Nearly a full percentage point drop. Samsung is all but one vendor and yes they had a drop from 33% to 24% but they lost it mainly to other Android based device makers(mainly). Cheaper priced/better value phones on a non iOS Platform.

What's gleaming isn't the performance of any one individual company, but rather the market share of them as it relates to the OS they sit on. I made mention of the iPad slump and it's impact. That is also affecting iOS overall. Looking at Q2 2014 vs previous year, Apple iOS as an operating system in share has dropped from 13% to just under 12% Android however has gone up from nearly 80% to just under 85%.

Market Share Opportunities Abound:

Yes, that growth was fueled by gains in the low (US$100<US$200) and ultra low-end (<US$100) of the market, seeing those categories grow 16.5% sequentially since Q1. Thus if I were at Samsung, I'd say go after that market. It's growing and they have the capability of making devices in those price ranges. The growth up top isn't nearly as much as down low. Even Apple found they couldn't get that share with a lower priced 5c model.

Now some might say that's not the price-point consumers that Apple is after. That may be true, but I agree with other posters that said Apple is trying to evolve and maintain a Software Company profile and these devices today are more about Ecosystems than just hardware products. They need that OS market share as much as anyone.

Even low end devices are solid, but it's the OS that really makes them shine. Cheap well made widgets are easier to make than solid software is to run them. However, even Android has stepped up very highly to make a strong OS.

My Opinion:

IMO the key for Samsung is to target the markets wisely with smaller sets of products that are more fully integrated. They have everything Apple does in terms of phones, tablets, PC's and wearables. They just need to stitch them together better. In fact they have a better chance of winning as their phones, Mobile OS in Android and Windows based platforms are all much much larger market share wise. So in the end, they could win BIG. Now they just need a visionary to pull it all together.

 

[mercuryjones]

they are growing their iPhone sales but at a slower pace than Android devices are selling. investors and their stock value are based on their own growth not how they are fairing overall. that however comes into play once sales slow.

It doesn't surprise me that the Q3 vs Q3 or YOY growth for Apple is up. The iPh6 and iOS8 is a much greater jump in product this year vs last years 5s and iOS 7 was. This is always their quarter of growth too. Samsung however with the S5 and Note 4, meh....not so much of an upgrade to either really. Not IMO anyway. I'm not sure why they expected anything huge other than perhaps just being overally optimistic.



doubtful. Samsung is just going to adjust their production to serve the markets that are in demand. they should have streamlined their lineup years ago. they can and will, no doubt.



Samsungs problem is a better one for them to have. They can easily adjust production and related costs. They make the widgets and components and have a strong ability to control material and production costs as they are using their own people and factories. It would however be much more impactful if they didn't have the demand or growth in the Android space to do it in though.

That's Apple's challenge. Great product, definitely a demand now, but if the demand for the OS slumps, so will there net-new hardware sales.

The slump for the OS can be placed on Android too, if we are just making blanket statements. I mean, if that slumps, Google and all of the partners are going to be hurting pretty bad.

 

[I7guy]

they are growing their iPhone sales but at a slower pace than Android devices are selling. investors and their stock value are based on their own growth not how they are fairing overall. that however comes into play once sales slow.

It doesn't surprise me that the Q3 vs Q3 or YOY growth for Apple is up. The iPh6 and iOS8 is a much greater jump in product this year vs last years 5s and iOS 7 was. This is always their quarter of growth too. Samsung however with the S5 and Note 4, meh....not so much of an upgrade to either really. Not IMO anyway. I'm not sure why they expected anything huge other than perhaps just being overally optimistic.



doubtful. Samsung is just going to adjust their production to serve the markets that are in demand. they should have streamlined their lineup years ago. they can and will, no doubt.



Samsungs problem is a better one for them to have. They can easily adjust production and related costs. They make the widgets and components and have a strong ability to control material and production costs as they are using their own people and factories. It would however be much more impactful if they didn't have the demand or growth in the Android space to do it in though.

That's Apple's challenge. Great product, definitely a demand now, but if the demand for the OS slumps, so will there net-new hardware sales.

Sure. When android phones are being given away almost for free and profits are down, do you think the boards of the companies will be happy with management. Seems there are two minds here: 1. How many sold 2. How much revenue/profit was made.

So yeah, Samsung sold a boatload of phones and revenue is down. Apples growth rate slowed and sold less phones than android but their market cap is at an all time high. Who is in a better position?