Galaxy S5 sold 40 percent fewer units than Samsung predicted: WSJ

[pdqgp]

You say there are all these drops and declines...yet it's not reflected in Apple's ability to make money

I'm pointing out the drop in iTunes because you are calling it part of their sticky ecosytem with downloads of music and videos that is insulating them and I'm showing you that it's not as sticky as you might think. That ship isn't worry free. Neither is their tablet market. Sure they are making money thanks to growing iPhone sales and high ASP's but again, they aren't bulletproof.

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Google? Path to hardware? They sold Motorola to Lenovo you know. They are back to depending on partners for hardware and that's tricky business IMO.

Not that that means they're in trouble by any means, but just that they are following a more Microsoft-y model. We provide the OS, OEMs provide the hardware...B

yes, they sold off Motorola, retained rights to a fair share of the patents and will partner with Lenovo. Very much like what the Microsoft Model. That model isn't perfect but it still reigns supreme even after decades of competition.

 

[Technarchy]

I'm pointing out the drop in iTunes because you are calling it part of their sticky ecosytem with downloads of music and videos that is insulating them and I'm showing you that it's not as sticky as you might think. That ship isn't worry free. Neither is their tablet market. Sure they are making money thanks to growing iPhone sales and high ASP's but again, they aren't bulletproof

You're cherry picking your data. There is a reason I specifically said "video, music, apps and services."

Overall, the iTunes business is growing at approximately 30% year-over-year.

App Store revenues grew by 105% last year, and while sales from the iTunes Music Store declined, apps leapfrogged music as Apple's largest source of content revenue. This is why Apple continues to do well.

And next year we will see Apple streaming services released, another sticky product that is sure to generate billions in revenue.

 

[pdqgp]

You're cherry picking your data. There is a reason I specifically said "video, music, apps and services."

Overall, the iTunes business is growing at approximately 30% year-over-year.

I didn't cherry pick it. Music downloads are down and the 13% growth they are showing with iTunes (iTunes, Software and Services) was noted to be from in-app purchases and yes, app sales overall. Perhaps I missed the 30% growth piece in their reporting Again, things aren't as sticky as you like to make them out to be. We'll see if the Beats Acquisition pays off for consumers.

App Store revenues grew by 105% last year, and while sales from the iTunes Music Store declined, apps leapfrogged music as Apple's largest source of content revenue. This is why Apple continues to do well.

Again, I must have missed the 105% growth. Feel free to point it out though. I'm mobile so a quick web search is all I pulled up for now http://marketrealist.com/2014/10/why-app-stores-business-growth-offsetting-itunes-decline/

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I ride the market cap "horse" a lot, as you say, is because in these threads it is lost sight of what matters. Revenue and profit. The smallest nits are debated and victory is awarded based on the smallest inconsequential item(sic), when in reality the war is won on the trading floor.

Yeah...because I forgot we're on a Wall-Street message board Let's see that victory benefit the average consumer. I mean we are on a consumers based board IIRC.

 

[mercuryjones]

I didn't cherry pick it. Music downloads are down and the 13% growth they are showing with iTunes (iTunes, Software and Services) was noted to be from in-app purchases and yes, app sales overall. Perhaps I missed the 30% growth piece in their reporting Again, things aren't as sticky as you like to make them out to be. We'll see if the Beats Acquisition pays off for consumers.



Again, I must have missed the 105% growth. Feel free to point it out though. I'm mobile so a quick web search is all I pulled up for now http://marketrealist.com/2014/10/why-app-stores-business-growth-offsetting-itunes-decline/

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Yeah...because I forgot we're on a Wall-Street message board Let's see that victory benefit the average consumer. I mean we are on a consumers based board IIRC.

How does owning a phone with the most market share benefit the consumer? A company being profitable benefits me as a consumer, because it means they are going to stick around and are going to be able to support my purchased product.

 

[I7guy]

I didn't cherry pick it. Music downloads are down and the 13% growth they are showing with iTunes (iTunes, Software and Services) was noted to be from in-app purchases and yes, app sales overall. Perhaps I missed the 30% growth piece in their reporting Again, things aren't as sticky as you like to make them out to be. We'll see if the Beats Acquisition pays off for consumers.



Again, I must have missed the 105% growth. Feel free to point it out though. I'm mobile so a quick web search is all I pulled up for now http://marketrealist.com/2014/10/why-app-stores-business-growth-offsetting-itunes-decline/

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Yeah...because I forgot we're on a Wall-Street message board Let's see that victory benefit the average consumer. I mean we are on a consumers based board IIRC.

It already seems the average consumer believes they benefit because due to them apples market cap is what it is.

Your have been cherry picking apart Apple:
- iphones offer no real innovation unlike android
- music downloads are down countered by app purchases
- Apple boxed themselves in with iphones
- iPads sales are on the decline
- market cap and stock price are meaningless
- iPads can cannabilize apples computer business
- major companies are dumping Apple for lower cost solutions
- apples lack of market share will bite them in the future
- and my favorite, market share is the most important indicator of success (sic)

I could go on, but the simple fact is that samsungs mobile phone business at the present time isn't doing very well. I would be more worried about Samsung exiting the mobile phone business than Apple losing market share of IOS.

 

[pdqgp]

How does owning a phone with the most market share benefit the consumer? A company being profitable benefits me as a consumer, because it means they are going to stick around and are going to be able to support my purchased product.

And we're all worried that Samsung isn't going to be around to support our product right?

 

[pdqgp]

It already seems the average consumer believes they benefit because due to them apples market cap is what it is.

Your have been cherry picking apart Apple:
- iphones offer no real innovation unlike android
- music downloads are down countered by app purchases
- Apple boxed themselves in with iphones
- iPads sales are on the decline
- market cap and stock price are meaningless
- iPads can cannabilize apples computer business
- major companies are dumping Apple for lower cost solutions
- apples lack of market share will bite them in the future
- and my favorite, market share is the most important indicator of success

Did I say iPhones offer no innovation? Even I missed that. What I said is they are essentially the same as years ago and I'm not wrong.
Music downloads are down and the rest came from their own reporting
Apple is pretty much boxed in and leveraged largely off their iPhone business. Next is PC's.
iPads are on the decline
Market cap and stock prices are not relevant to this topic or many here
Cannabilization is always a concern
I mentioned one major insurance co that I know well and represent is moving away and am not wrong in that IT would like to support less devices
Lack of market share is a concern IMO and yes goes a long way to determining future successes.

Overall we can agree to disagree.

I could go on, but the simple fact is that samsungs mobile phone business at the present time isn't doing very well. I would be more worried about Samsung exiting the mobile phone business than Apple losing market share of IOS.

Not me.

 

[skratch77]

But it didn't say what they gained. Increased sales of the Galaxy Light are different from increased sales of the GS4, GS5, or Note 3. Judging from the profit decline it's likely that it was an increase in low-end sales like the Galaxy Light or Galaxy Centura.

I don't know where you live but here in the usa all I ever see is samsung flagship phones.not there low end China market phones.

You contradict yourself saying it was from a low end increase of sales because xiaomi gained 211% in that market and that is where samsung really got hurt.there low end market went down not up

 

[I7guy]

...snip....

Not me.

We can agree to disagree on this also.

 

[CEmajr]

I don't know where you live but here in the usa all I ever see is samsung flagship phones.not there low end China market phones.

You contradict yourself saying it was from a low end increase of sales because xiaomi gained 211% in that market and that is where samsung really got hurt.there low end market went down not up

It's no contradiction. If your high-end high profit sales decline but your low-end low margin sales increase, your overall profit still declines. That's what we're seeing and that's why Samsung is still shipping large numbers of phones but profit is down 70%. It's really a simple concept to understand. Xiaomi took some of their marketshare, Apple took some of their profits.

I live and travel around the US too and I see high-end Samsung phones but I also see many people with the low-end models too. We can go on all day with the anecdotal evidence but the actual profit numbers do not lie on what the real situation is.

 

[Technarchy]

I don't know where you live but here in the usa all I ever see is samsung flagship phones.not there low end China market phones.

You contradict yourself saying it was from a low end increase of sales because xiaomi gained 211% in that market and that is where samsung really got hurt.there low end market went down not up

Except for the 40% of unsold S5's...

 

[skratch77]

Except for the 40% of unsold S5's...

I read that samsung sold 18 million gs5s Q3 and it was 40% less then what was expected.

Its not because of Apple samsung and anDroid flagship market is now so saturated and people have no incentive to upgrade from current hardware.

Note 3 users don't see a note 4 as a huge upgrade the same as gs4 users jumping ship to a gs5

 

[Technarchy]

I read that samsung sold 18 million gs5s Q3 and it was 40% less then what was expected.

Its not because of Apple samsung and anDroid flagship market is now so saturated and people have no incentive to upgrade from current hardware.

Note 3 users don't see a note 4 as a huge upgrade the same as gs4 users jumping ship to a gs5

So saturated that Apple moved 10 million units in a weekend?

 

[FFR]

I read that samsung sold 18 million gs5s Q3 and it was 40% less then what was expected.



Its not because of Apple samsung and anDroid flagship market is now so saturated and people have no incentive to upgrade from current hardware.



Note 3 users don't see a note 4 as a huge upgrade the same as gs4 users jumping ship to a gs5

Link to the 18 million.
The source the op provided cited 12 units shipped, while 4 million of 12 were still unsold.

 

[mercuryjones]

And we're all worried that Samsung isn't going to be around to support our product right?

If I happened to purchase one of the Samsung devices that won't be updated because of lack of profits, then yes, I am a little worried that it won't be fully supported.

 

[FFR]

So saturated that Apple moved 10 million units in a weekend?

Exactly, they are also saying apple will sell 70 million iPhone 6/6+'s in two and a half months.
Doesn't look like the market is saturated at all.

 

[skratch77]

So saturated that Apple moved 10 million units in a weekend?

I was talking about android flagship market finally hit a wall. Apple has a huge amount of users that want a bigger screen so the iPhone 6 is a huge upgrade to them.

There is really no incentive to upgrade a flagship samsung device from last year to this year.heck we have 3 upgrades on our account and no one wanted to use one because they were happy with there phones.

 

[jamezr]

So saturated that Apple moved 10 million units in a weekend?

so sales are the indicator of a product quality? In that same span of time....i would bet worldwide sales of Android phones were higher. The iphone is the best selling smartphone in the world. But it is only one ...well 2 phones. If we are going by sales........then the iPhone is looking up at Android. This is well documented.

 

[Technarchy]

so sales are the indicator of a product quality? In that same span of time....i would bet worldwide sales of Android phones were higher. The iphone is the best selling smartphone in the world. But it is only one ...well 2 phones. If we are going by sales........then the iPhone is looking up at Android. This is well documented.

This is not news.

More PC's are sold than Macs
More Android phones are sold than iPhones

This position comes as a result of Apple designing the software an hardware and not licensing their software to whomever.

So the fact that android, which has a model like Windows, sells more is not unexpected one bit.

 

[mi7chy]

The real problem with Samsung is that they build their products with too much future proofing. Their products are designed so that they're still competive and useful for three to four years whereas the competition designs for obsolescence so you have to replace them every year and the OS upgrade purposely enforces this. Take for example the 2012 Note II from 2 years ago that has 2GB DRAM vs the iPhone that continues to be DRAM deficient in 2014 with 1GB even with known browser reload issues and premature background app closure causing data loss. Samsung's business approach is to build industry leading technology (AMOLED) and specs (DRAM) but rely on market growth versus Apple that builds relatively low end LCD and low DRAM to increase profit and rely on loyalty of smaller market share to drive annual upgrade sales. Now you have companies like Xiaomi, Opo/OnePlus, Huawei, etc. that matches Samsung's specs but not necessarily technology and are successful at grabbing market share in the middle ground between Samsung and Apple. One thing that sets Samsung apart though which will help their ability to weather the storm is that they're self sustaining having their own fab and manufacturing their own core components from SoC to display, flash memory, DRAM, baseband, camera sensor, etc. Qualcomm and Apple switching manufacturing of their SoC to Samsung from TSMC just shows how good their quality is.

 

[jamezr]

This is not news.

More PC's are sold than Macs
More Android phones are sold than iPhones

This position comes as a result of Apple designing the software an hardware and not licensing their software to whomever.

So the fact that android, which has a model like Windows, sells more is not unexpected one bit.

Agreed..... You brought up the sales thing....

 

[Technarchy]

Agreed..... You brought up the sales thing....

That was in the response to the notion that the market has reached flagship saturation.

Which I don't think is true for Apple or Android or Windows

I think there is plenty of room for a breakout and breakthrough android flagship device. Just takes the right company and right set of features, which isn't really happening right now. For me things are in a lull.

QHD, 64 bit, 6" screens and 4gb of ram isn't enough either. That's just checking the boxes. Something bigger needs to happen. A phenomena like the iPhone, but running a super well featured, well polished android phone that is also a high end lifestyle product.

 

[skratch77]

Link to the 18 million.
The source the op provided cited 12 units shipped, while 4 million of 12 were still unsold.

I clearly remember reading samsung selling 11 or 12 million Galaxy S5s way back in may.are you saying they didn't sell any more phones

Samsung sold 11 million gs5s it's first month

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http://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-weve-sold-11m-galaxy-s5-since-launch/

 

[CEmajr]

I read that samsung sold 18 million gs5s Q3 and it was 40% less then what was expected.

Its not because of Apple samsung and anDroid flagship market is now so saturated and people have no incentive to upgrade from current hardware.

Note 3 users don't see a note 4 as a huge upgrade the same as gs4 users jumping ship to a gs5

Where did you read 18 million GS5s were sold in Q3? I'd like to see that link as I don't recall Samsung releasing any numbers nor any estimates from third parties being that high.

Market saturation isn't a good excuse when Apple just had their most successful iPhone launch ever and will most likely have their most successful quarter of iPhone sales in Q4 as well.

There is some merit to your last sentence though. Samsung hasn't given its users nor other Android users a strong enough incentive to choose the GS5 or Note 4 over the alternatives that are available. They really haven't made a major change since the GS3. Inconsequently, the GS4 and GS5 sold significantly less than their respective predecessors.

 

[mi7chy]

PC market share only accounts for branded pre-built computers which is smaller than custom PCs. When taking both into consideration PC market is probably about 1000x the size of Mac market. That's why professional software are more likely to be PC only because of the enormous market share to fund the cost of development of tools like OrCAD, ProEngineer, Microstation, etc.