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Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Galaxy S6

Um samsung out sold apple.it is the record holder in SALES it sold over 300 million cell phones last year.



You guys have sales and margins mixed up.samsung out sells apple with ease.


I've already said again sales are an indicator of success. I also said growth in sales and profit are indicators in a company's success. Sure, Samsung sold more phones. Did they sell more Galaxy phones? Or did the s5 end up a disappointment, making way for the revamped s6? I didn't read Samsung mobile having a banner year with their profit.

I just think it's odd the s6 been out a month and now people feel like apples brand is in jeopardy. Again, what proof do u have to support this?

----------

There you go again. Making false statements. NEVER once did I say Apple was jeopardy!!! So show me where I said that. Don't just make stuff up so you can continue to backtrack and change your tune.

The iPhone/IOS is against all Android OEMs because Apple chooses to make it that way. They could license IOS.


You're right, it was another poster. But I'm not backtracking on anything. I've stood by my comments.

They don't license iOS though. You think that's bad for Apple? Because again the evidence shows Apple is doing pretty well controlling their own os.
 

skratch77

macrumors 65816
Mar 20, 2013
1,241
5
I've already said again sales are an indicator of success. I also said growth in sales and profit are indicators in a company's success. Sure, Samsung sold more phones. Did they sell more Galaxy phones? Or did the s5 end up a disappointment, making way for the revamped s6? I didn't read Samsung mobile having a banner year with their profit.

I just think it's odd the s6 been out a month and now people feel like apples brand is in jeopardy. Again, what proof do u have to support this?

----------




You're right, it was another poster. But I'm not backtracking on anything. I've stood by my comments.

They don't license iOS though. You think that's bad for Apple? Because again the evidence shows Apple is doing pretty well controlling their own os.

Samsung never breaks down sales but all I ever see out in the wild if it's not an iPhone it's either a gs3,gs4,gs5,note 3 and note 4 and the obvious gs6

they sell a lot bud.even this site had an article saying samung sold the most phones for 2014.

Apple has insane profit margins and makes awesome profit on less sales.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
You're right, it was another poster. But I'm not backtracking on anything. I've stood by my comments.

They don't license iOS though. You think that's bad for Apple? Because again the evidence shows Apple is doing pretty well controlling their own os.

You have backtracked already from your sales is the deciding factor comments. Now that you have been proven wrong with facts you change your tune. Now it is poor Apple against all other OEMs...if that fair :(. Except Apple chooses to make it that way. They could license IOS if that wanted to.

You and I7guy have been expounding sales sales sales....as the reason why Apple does not need to add features or compete with hardware improvements to keep up with Android OEMs.
Now that you have been proven wrong with facts. Shown how far behind Apple is in sales and market share you change your narrative! Classic.....
Now it's Apple is doing well alluding to profits. WOW!

----------

Samsung never breaks down sales but all I ever see out in the wild if it's not an iPhone it's either a gs3,gs4,gs5,note 3 and note 4 and the obvious gs6

they sell a lot bud.even this site had an article saying samung sold the most phones for 2014.

Apple has insane profit margins and makes awesome profit on less sales.
Yep...I think Apple is one if not THE most profitable company there is.
 

tbayrgs

macrumors 604
Jul 5, 2009
7,467
5,097
There you go again. Making false statements. NEVER once did I say Apple was jeopardy!!! So show me where I said that. Don't just make stuff up so you can continue to backtrack and change your tune.

The iPhone/IOS is against all Android OEMs because Apple chooses to make it that way. They could license IOS.

Yes, but again, Samsung and all other OEMS who use Android are not a single entity, working together as a conglomerate to 'defeat' Apple. Samsung would be just as happy to take a sale from HTC, Motorola, or LG as they would Apple.

We don't say an auto company like Toyota or Ford is failing because their sales don't match the sales of every other automaker's sales put together, do we?

Of course Android has much greater market share--it's openly available for anyone to use. The OS is only one element of the smartphone. How many smartphones use the same Qualcomm CPU? Do we every see market share or sales graphs of smartphones broken down by the CPU they use? Of course not, and doing the same with Android is about as relevant. You know why we see so much iOS vs. Android comparisons? Because it's great for clicks, comparing the two biggest guys on the block, Apple and Google, makes a good story.

Your first table is pertinent, since this discussion is about Samsung and their position in the market compared to Apple. Grouping together all smartphones that use Android, just because it's the same OS that the S6 uses, is irrelevant to the discussion.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,162
25,281
Gotta be in it to win it
There you are....now you're going to change your focus now! First it was sales sales sales. iPhone sells more than any single phone so they must be doing something right. Now with data to show the iPhone/IOS lags far behind in sales you change to profits as the big factor.
You were proven wrong as Apple/IOS is so far behind is sales and market share....so now you change the focus to profit! WOW...backtrack much?

You made the ridiculous comparison by comparing iOS sales against every other android manufacturer in the world. And people consider that good work? Especially since this thread is about Samsung. Moving goal posts, you can't even find them here! You guys don't get it seems. your definition of lousy sales does not translate into what "the street" thinks; out there, outside of this thread that's what counts.
 

skratch77

macrumors 65816
Mar 20, 2013
1,241
5
Yes, but again, Samsung and all other OEMS who use Android are not a single entity, working together as a conglomerate to 'defeat' Apple. Samsung would be just as happy to take a sale from HTC, Motorola, or LG as they would Apple.

We don't say an auto company like Toyota or Ford is failing because their sales don't match the sales of every other automaker's sales put together, do we?

Of course Android has much greater market share--it's openly available for anyone to use. The OS is only one element of the smartphone. How many smartphones use the same Qualcomm CPU? Do we every see market share or sales graphs of smartphones broken down by the CPU they use? Of course not, and doing the same with Android is about as relevant. You know why we see so much iOS vs. Android comparisons? Because it's great for clicks, comparing the two biggest guys on the block, Apple and Google, makes a good story.

Your first table is pertinent, since this discussion is about Samsung and their position in the market compared to Apple. Grouping together all smartphones that use Android, just because it's the same OS that the S6 uses, is irrelevant to the discussion.

But when you actually prove along with your financial earnings report to the share holders that you sold 300+ million android phones pretty much says they are the majority of the android eco system.

Like I said all I see in the wild is iphones and samsungs.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
Yes, but again, Samsung and all other OEMS who use Android are not a single entity, working together as a conglomerate to 'defeat' Apple. Samsung would be just as happy to take a sale from HTC, Motorola, or LG as they would Apple.

We don't say an auto company like Toyota or Ford is failing because their sales don't match the sales of every other automaker's sales put together, do we?

Of course Android has much greater market share--it's openly available for anyone to use. The OS is only one element of the smartphone. How many smartphones use the same Qualcomm CPU? Do we every see market share or sales graphs of smartphones broken down by the CPU they use? Of course not, and doing the same with Android is about as relevant. Your first graph is pertinent to the discussion, since this discussion is about Samsung and their position in the market compared to Apple. Grouping together all smartphones that use Android, just because it's the same OS that the S6 uses, is irrelevant to the discussion.
Not even the same comparison in this space.

Apple controls IOS and chooses NOT to license it to other OEMS. Don't you think other phone maker would love to sell a phone IOS on it? Market it just "Buy our phone it's just like the iPhone runs IOS"? C'Mom....Apple controls IOS with a tight fist to maximize profits and control IOS.

Again you're comparisons are way off base. Truefan and I7guy have been saying how Apple doesn't need to compete with Android OEMs on features and hardware enhancements because the iPhone's sales. Now i have shown data to disprove those statements.

Then if you want to just single out Samsung......they still outsell Apple.

Bm4vYacl.png
 

skratch77

macrumors 65816
Mar 20, 2013
1,241
5
Last year Samsung had 65% of androids 73% market share.
 

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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
You made the ridiculous comparison by comparing iOS sales against every other android manufacturer in the world. And people consider that good work? Especially since this thread is about Samsung. Moving goal posts, you can't even find them here! You guys don't get it seems. your definition of lousy sales does not translate into what "the street" thinks; out there, outside of this thread that's what counts.
The street?
Is that where all the Android sales are coming from? So are you backing away from your sales means everything mantra? You have been saying in this thread and other threads that sales mean everything. Now with the facts in front of you how is that holding up for you? Oh...thats right now your going to change to profits....back track much?

Bm4vYacl.png


QvL2hHRl.png
 

skratch77

macrumors 65816
Mar 20, 2013
1,241
5
Wait does I7guy think apple sold more phones then samsung? I must admit I've skipped many pages in these 2 threads.

Lol
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
Wait does I7guy think apple sold more phones then samsung? I must admit I've skipped many pages in these 2 threads.

Lol
For two threads and endless posts Truefan and I7guy have been arguing that Apple doesn't have to compete with Android OEMs on hardware and software enhancements. They said iPhones sales were superior. So i have data that proves them wrong......
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Galaxy S6

Not even the same comparison in this space.



Apple controls IOS and chooses NOT to license it to other OEMS. Don't you think other phone maker would love to sell a phone IOS on it? Market it just "Buy our phone it's just like the iPhone runs IOS"? C'Mom....Apple controls IOS with a tight fist to maximize profits and control IOS.



Again you're comparisons are way off base. Truefan and I7guy have been saying how Apple doesn't need to compete with Android OEMs on features and hardware enhancements because the iPhone's sales. Now i have shown data to disprove those statements.



Then if you want to just single out Samsung......they still outsell Apple.



Image


I'm saying there's no evidence Apple isn't competing based on their continued growth.

So does Samsung sell as many Galaxy flagship phones as Apple? Did Samsung mobile in your opinion enjoy the same type of success as Apple because of their total overall sales of every type of phone they make exceed the iPhone? Because everything I've read states Samsung had a relatively down year, even changing top management because of it.

Again I'm not saying Apple doesn't need to compete, I'm saying they're already doing that, and doing it well based on real numbers. There's no evidence being shown that the Apple strategy has to change because the s6 is a great device.

I think Apple feels controlling iOS is in their benefit. And it shows. It's probably why Samsung has been trying with tizen. They know control over their os can mean success if done right.
 
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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
I'm saying there's no evidence Apple isn't competing based on their continued growth.

So does Samsung sell as many Galaxy flagship phones as Apple?
Do you have no shame? You can say one thing in the same thread then back track on it.
Truefan31]Sales is an indicator of success imo.

Do you think IOS is a success based on sales?

QvL2hHRl.png
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Galaxy S6

Do you have no shame? You can say one thing in the same thread then back track on it.


Do you think IOS is a success based on sales?

Image


What are u talking about? Do I think the iPhone is a success? Yes. So you don't think the iPhone is a successful product?

All I see is a iOS vs android, or Apple vs Samsung. Do u want to do iPhone vs Galaxy? You're arguments look even weaker by the post.

Again I never said Apple doesn't need to compete. I'm saying based on evidence they already are.
 
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epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
: clap clap clap :

Go Jamerz!

Someone who owns both devices (and then some ;)) and have charts to debate with.

Versus two people who have professed they don't own or like android nor will likely ever change that tune in the foreseeable future. But whom still pretend to speak with authority in threads made specifically to discuss the devices in question.

My moneys on Jamerz. Good work.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
You said





So in you opinion is IOS a success based on sales?


iOS is just a part of the product imo. I've already said the iPhone imo is a successful product. You don't? If you dont, why? Any evidence to show proof?
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
iOS is just a part of the product imo. I've already said the iPhone imo is a successful product. You don't? If you dont, why? Any evidence to show proof?

How do you not get it. Jamerz is using your own metric to gauge success. You said sales are what counts. He showed you the sales aren't what you thought they were and is asking you based on YOUR own metric, is apple winning the sales war?

And to further the point of the other threads, should apple compete more?

Again, all based on your own grounds and metric.

I don't think Jamerz would argue the iPhone isn't a successful phenomenon. But he's using your own metric since you (and i7guy guy) have been insisting that's all that counts.

To;Dr: You're getting schooled on your own grounds.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
: clap clap clap :



Go Jamerz!



Someone who owns both devices (and then some ;)) and have charts to debate with.



Versus two people who have professed they don't own or like android nor will likely ever change that tune in the foreseeable future. But whom still pretend to speak with authority in threads made specifically to discuss the devices in question.



My moneys on Jamerz. Good work.


Where did I say I didn't like android? My debate isn't with iOS vs android. It's that some people think the s6 being a great device means Apple isn't competing. Other than feelings there's nothing concrete to support that.

I read posters saying apples brand is in jeopardy or that Apple needs to compete more. But there's nothing other than personal feelings. I'm asking for real data, real proof of how Apple is in trouble all a sudden.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
iOS is just a part of the product imo. I've already said the iPhone imo is a successful product. You don't? If you dont, why? Any evidence to show proof?
You and I7guy have repeatedly said in multiple threads the iPhone does not have to compete with Android OEMs because the iPhone's sales. It does not have to compete with hardware and software features because of sales. That based on the iPhone sales......id was the sales leader therefore did not have to compete with Android OEMS with features to be competitive in the mobile market space.

So if sales are the deciding factor in the success of a product how does the iPhone stand against Android phones based on sales?
It is a fair comparison because the iPhone is the ONLY phone model running IOS.
I've already said the iPhone imo is a successful product.
Not by your standards

Truefan31]Sales is an indicator of success imo.


So if sales are your measuring stick how does IOS/iPhone stack up?
Maybe if it had better software/hardware features sales would be better?

Truefan31]Sales is an indicator of success imo.


QvL2hHRl.png
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
How do you not get it. Jamerz is using your own metric to gauge success. You said sales are what counts. He showed you the sales aren't what you thought they were and is asking you based on YOUR own metric, is apple winning the sales war?



And to further the point of the other threads, should apple compete more?



Again, all based on your own grounds and metric.



I don't think Jamerz would argue the iPhone isn't a successful phenomenon. But he's using your own metric since you (and i7guy guy) have been insisting that's all that counts.



To;Dr: You're getting schooled on your own grounds.


I've said sales are an indicator of success. The iPhone is the highest selling flagship smartphone, is it not? Again I didn't say sales are all that counts. If a company can have yearly growth in sales and profits that's usually a good thing. I see that with Apple. I see Samsung mobile had a relatively bad year. Now the s6 is here. Looks like it'll help them. Great, but it doesn't mean Apple isn't competing as well, unless you can provide some data showing otherwise.

Should Apple compete more? That is opinion. But real evidence points to Apple already competing at a successful level.

----------

You and I7guy have repeatedly said in multiple threads the iPhone does not have to compete with Android OEMs because the iPhone's sales. It does not have to compete with hardware and software features because of sales. That based on the iPhone sales......id was the sales leader therefore did not have to compete with Android OEMS with features to be competitive in the mobile market space.



So if sales are the deciding factor in the success of a product how does the iPhone stand against Android phones based on sales?

It is a fair comparison because the iPhone is the ONLY phone model running IOS.



Not by your standards









So if sales are your measuring stick how does IOS/iPhone stack up?

Maybe if it had better software/hardware features sales would be better?









Image


Can u show me where I said iPhones don't have to compete because of sales? I don't remember ever saying that. I've said they already are seemingly at a successful level based on their growth.

So u think its a legitimate comparison comparing iphone vs all android oem handsets? That's pretty unfair. And I'm not the only poster who's said so.
 

epicrayban

macrumors 604
Nov 7, 2014
6,517
5,353
Where did I say I didn't like android? My debate isn't with iOS vs android. It's that some people think the s6 being a great device means Apple isn't competing. Other than feelings there's nothing concrete to support that.

I read posters saying apples brand is in jeopardy or that Apple needs to compete more. But there's nothing other than personal feelings. I'm asking for real data, real proof of how Apple is in trouble all a sudden.

My mistake. I may have conflated you with i7guy regarding not liking Android.

No. It's not because the S6 is a great device and therefore Apple isn't competing (what?!). It's because people know Apple's method and pace of updating hardware/software features. It's slow. There's no denying that. In fact, people praise it by calling it "focused" and "meticulously thought out first," etc.

And the fear as Apple fans (<-- APPLE FANS, keywords!) is that this is unfortunate for the end users because Apple's competition, namely Samsung, is doing so much more and doing them faster. Samsung doesn't hold back. They put the most modern technology available into that little package (screen, SoC, RAM, internal memory, great speakers, both wireless charging standards, quick charge, etc.) and inject Android with more-often-than-not amazing additional features, some of which can be found nowhere else (and that's on top of the strengths that stock Android has, too. Ability to set any default apps, etc.). Then you have the novelty of the Edge variant.

Apple does not do this. We know this and in fact some people celebrate it (focused, meticulously thought out, etc.).

So you want the evidence that Apple isn't competing that you so long for? Well, read what I just wrote! Read the posts of people who own both devices and have used them both in tandem. Take heed the posts of people who can truly compare the features, and not just lists describing the features. It's ironic we get knocked as the "feature lists" comparers. We're not looking at lists. It's the ones that don't own the S6 that are looking at lists! We're the ones that are putting both devices and their strengths and weaknesses to practice. Why aren't our words taken more seriously than the ones who don't own the devices? Your cohort i7guy actually laughed at the credibility of people who own both devices in question! How can you take that seriously?

Lastly, where does Apple's sales/profits fall into the above discussion? No where! Just like Android's marketshare doesn't factor into whether or not Android should continue improving where their shortcomings are. Notice not once do I bring up marketshare to prove anything relating to hardware/software features. If you do want to talk about profits/sales, no one in their right mind would argue Apple isn't successful. Again, I myself have said a number of times, Apple is very successful and will likely continue being quite successful. So yes, those who say Apple is doomed, I wouldn't agree with either. But no one is talking about that when discussing hardware/software features.

Are you beginning to understand? I sincerely hope so!

----------

Should Apple compete more? That is opinion.

Okay, here's your chance to answer the question officially.

In your opinion, should Apple compete more?

"more" meaning more than they are doing now.

That was the focal point of the discussion in the other thread. Now's your chance to clear any confusion.
 

jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
16,079
19,078
US
Can u show me where I said iPhones don't have to compete because of sales? I don't remember ever saying that. I've said they already are seemingly at a successful level based on their growth.

So u think its a legitimate comparison comparing iphone vs all android oem handsets? That's pretty unfair. And I'm not the only poster who's said so.
C'mon you said and alluded to it numerous times in threads threads that based on sales the iPhone doesn't have to compete with Android OEMs
Truefan31]Sales is an indicator of success imo.

Now presented with current data....you back off and change the subject.
Now you says its current growth...backing away from sales. You are losing so much credibility.

Comparing IOS to Android is a straight one to one comparison of mobile operating systems. Just because Apple chose to be the ONLY one selling phones with IOS is totally up the Apple. They chose to make it this way.
Can't punish Android OEMs because Apple chooses not to license their mobile OS.
Comparing Android to IOS is a very fair and straightforward comparison.
Even the data analytics companies do it.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
My mistake. I may have conflated you with i7guy regarding not liking Android.

No. It's not because the S6 is a great device and therefore Apple isn't competing (what?!). It's because people know Apple's method and pace of updating hardware/software features. It's slow. There's no denying that. In fact, people praise it by calling it "focused" and "meticulously thought out first," etc.

And the fear as Apple fans (<-- APPLE FANS, keywords!) is that this is unfortunate for the end users because Apple's competition, namely Samsung, is doing so much more and doing them faster. Samsung doesn't hold back. They put the most modern technology available into that little package (screen, SoC, RAM, internal memory, great speakers, both wireless charging standards, quick charge, etc.) and inject Android with more-often-than-not amazing additional features, some of which can be found nowhere else (and that's on top of the strengths that stock Android has, too. Ability to set any default apps, etc.). Then you have the novelty of the Edge variant.

Apple does not do this. We know this and in fact some people celebrate it (focused, meticulously thought out, etc.).

So you want the evidence that Apple isn't competing that you so long for? Well, read what I just wrote! Read the posts of people who own both devices and have used them both in tandem. Take heed the posts of people who can truly compare the features, and not just lists describing the features. It's ironic we get knocked as the "feature lists" comparers. We're not looking at lists. It's the ones that don't own the S6 that are looking at lists! We're the ones that are putting both devices and their strengths and weaknesses to practice. Why aren't our words taken more seriously than the ones who don't own the devices? Your cohort i7guy actually laughed at the credibility of people who own both devices in question! How can you take that seriously?

Lastly, where does Apple's sales/profits fall into the above discussion? No where! Just like Android's marketshare doesn't factor into whether or not Android should continue improving where their shortcomings are. Notice not once do I bring up marketshare to prove anything relating to hardware/software features. If you do want to talk about profits/sales, no one in their right mind would argue Apple isn't successful. Again, I myself have said a number of times, Apple is very successful and will likely continue being quite successful. So yes, those who say Apple is doomed, I wouldn't agree with either. But no one is talking about that when discussing hardware/software features.

Are you beginning to understand? I sincerely hope so!

----------



Okay, here's your chance to answer the question officially.

In your opinion, should Apple compete more?

"more" meaning more than they are doing now.

That was the focal point of the discussion in the other thread. Now's your chance to clear any confusion.


Imo I think Apple is competing successfully.
 

Truefan31

macrumors 68040
Aug 25, 2012
3,589
835
Galaxy S6

C'mon you said and alluded to it numerous times in threads threads that based on sales the iPhone doesn't have to compete with Android OEMs





Now presented with current data....you back off and change the subject.

Now you says its current growth...backing away from sales. You are losing so much credibility.



Comparing IOS to Android is a straight one to one comparison of mobile operating systems. Just because Apple chose to be the ONLY one selling phones with IOS is totally up the Apple. They chose to make it this way.

Can't punish Android OEMs because Apple chooses not to license their mobile OS.

Comparing Android to IOS is a very fair and straightforward comparison.

Even the data analytics companies do it.


What are u talking about?

I alluded to what? Can you show me where I said iPhone doesn't have to compete? I'm sure I didn't say that but again I don't mind being wrong so let me know.

I never said sales are the end all be all. Can u show me where I said that? i do feel it's an indicator of successful products. Apple wants the iPhone to sell, Samsung wants the s6 to sell. Those are both their high profit, flagship models. If either don't, like the s5, it's considered a disappointment by the company.

Comparing iOS vs android is not my debate. Those are imo a part that make up the product. Even Samsung puts their spin on it with touch wiz. So why are you talking this up?

I'm not punishing android oems, what does that even mean?

I've already said it looks like the s6 is a great device. Imo that doesn't mean Apple isn't competing successfully. Why does there need to be a negative result from this? People say apples brand is being chipped away or Apple needs to change things. Where's the real evidence to show this? If you own both devices great. You like the s6, so be it. But again it's your personal feelings. Can you show me on paper how Apple is now reeling because of a seemingly good/great s6?

Fwiw I was interested in the lg g4. But the leather back isn't appealing to me
 
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