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thewitt

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Sep 13, 2011
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Unless they are super special ravens, a bird usually goes back to where it comes from... I thought. :)
Which would require one raven for every possible destination house - like homing pigeons. Since that's actually never been spelled out, the possibility of a raven that can simply find its target is still feasible.
 

Huntn

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May 5, 2008
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Which would require one raven for every possible destination house - like homing pigeons. Since that's actually never been spelled out, the possibility of a raven that can simply find its target is still feasible.

As I recall Ravens in this story are very smart, smarter than the average bird, so yes. :)
 

Roller

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Jun 25, 2003
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As I recall Ravens in this story are very smart, smarter than the average bird, so yes. :)

In a world where the dead can be re-animated and shadow beings can materialize out of thin air and kill, I'd say that point-to-multipoint raven communication is a given, even for birds with only two eyes. :)
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Exactly, as soon as I saw the old lady coming closer to Arya, my spidey-sense was tingling all over... It really was out of character for her to be that clueless and reckless

As soon as I saw the old lady, I called out "It's the Waif!" to my wife. The more I think about the scene, though, the more I'm convinced that it wasn't just Arya and the Waif—Jaquen was in there somewhere. And where did Arya get that cash? Maybe the Iron Bank of Braavos has ATMs, though I can't imagine that they'd want to issue cards to Faceless men or women, even in training.
 
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zmunkz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2007
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It's an interesting theory but I'm not convinced. The faceless are always able to find everyone and know what they are doing. Remember when Arya was granted the original three lives back in Westerns? Jaquen had no problem finding the people. Then there is also the scene when Jaquen kills himself leaving just the Waif and Arya watching until the Waif pulls off her face and is also Jaquen. Its not clear to me the Waif has a connection with Arya beyond what the story presents.

The biggest thing the theory has going for it is the uncharacteristic emotion the Waif seems to display against Arya, but even that is not hidden from Jaquen, who apparently doesn't find it out of place.

Regarding Sansa, I think she is writing to little finger personally. She is playing the game now, and understands that you can use people you don't like for your own ends.

I'm a little disappointed Jon Snow is preparing for war over Winterfell. I suppose he has to, but I always admired how he alone saw the real enemy and kept himself out of the politics. Guess that couldn't last.
 
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Khalanad75

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2015
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land of confusion
I'm a little disappointed Jon Snow is preparing for war over Winterfell. I suppose he has to, but I always admired how he alone saw the real enemy and kept himself out of the politics. Guess that couldn't last.


He has seen what the winter king can do. He knows that Ramsey Bolten is a complete loon and would come and fight and kill the nights watch just to get Sansa back. He knows there is no way the North can be prepared to fight the White Walkers while they all have to watch their back because of the flayed man.
 

Roller

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Jun 25, 2003
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He has seen what the winter king can do. He knows that Ramsey Bolten is a complete loon and would come and fight and kill the nights watch just to get Sansa back. He knows there is no way the North can be prepared to fight the White Walkers while they all have to watch their back because of the flayed man.

I agree. I don't think that Jon has a strong desire to be the Warden of the North, but he knows that enlisting all the northern houses and the wildlings offers the only hope of defeating the Night King and his army of White Walkers and wights. In order to do that he first has to eliminate Ramsay Bolton and his clan from Winterfell.
 
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ActionableMango

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Sep 21, 2010
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Going to war in order to unite everyone (under your own leadership of course), has often been justification for war in real human history. That is what Jon is doing here. He has seen the threat and he knows everyone has to be united in common cause against the enemy of all warm-blooded beings.

Of course it would be preferable to unite everyone by using Wilding and Night's Watch testimony, evidence, and inspiring speech, but this seems unlikely in the case of Ramsay Bolton. Heck it might have been possible with Roose Bolton, maybe, but definitely not Ramsay.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for Arya=Waif, I don't particularly like that theory and I hope it doesn't go that way.

One of the great things about Fight Club is that once you know the twist, you can watch the movie again and see how carefully everything fits. But in Arya's case, if I think back to earlier scenes, not everything fits right. There are two scenes in particular where it doesn't make much sense to me:

1) The scene @zmunkz already mentioned. This doesn't make any sense to me with the Arya=Waif theory:


2) Secondly, in the scene where Jaqen gives permission to The Waif to kill Arya, he makes a point of telling The Waif to do it humanely, and that it was a shame because she had so much skill. If you interpret this as Jaqen telling Arya's "Faceless Man" side to finally kill off Arya's "Stark" side, it seems awkward to mention the loss of skill and to tell the Waif to kill Arya without suffering.

I don't know how to make sense of either of those two scenes with the Arya=Waif theory.
 
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Roller

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Jun 25, 2003
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Not equals =/= or == is a substitute for ≠

But the theory referred to above is that Arya and the Waif are the same person, or at least two halves of what Arya used to be: the Stark half and the No One half. So isn't "Arya == Waif" saying that Arya isn't the Waif, in whole or in part?

In any case, I'm skeptical of that theory—seems a bit cerebral for GoT. But I think that Jaqen was closely involved with what happened in the last episode. I guess we'll find out Sunday, since the next one is titled "No One."
 
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Huntn

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May 5, 2008
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It's hard to believe we are all ready up to episode 8 of 10 for Season 6. I've said this before, but I think that 10 episodes for a season is inadequate unless they have slowed down the pace of the story telling.
[doublepost=1465392918][/doublepost]
It's an interesting theory but I'm not convinced. The faceless are always able to find everyone and know what they are doing. Remember when Arya was granted the original three lives back in Westerns? Jaquen had no problem finding the people. Then there is also the scene when Jaquen kills himself leaving just the Waif and Arya watching until the Waif pulls off her face and is also Jaquen. Its not clear to me the Waif has a connection with Arya beyond what the story presents.

The biggest thing the theory has going for it is the uncharacteristic emotion the Waif seems to display against Arya, but even that is not hidden from Jaquen, who apparently doesn't find it out of place.

Regarding Sansa, I think she is writing to little finger personally. She is playing the game now, and understands that you can use people you don't like for your own ends.

I'm a little disappointed Jon Snow is preparing for war over Winterfell. I suppose he has to, but I always admired how he alone saw the real enemy and kept himself out of the politics. Guess that couldn't last.

Winterfell is Jon's home and his preferred seat of power for the North. He was only out of it (kinda, but not really) because he had obligated himself to TNW. He has certainly been involved in policies with Wildlings that effect the realm, which in a way is surprising as no King until Stannis showed up, seemed to give a rats ass to what happened at the Wall. I always thought being tied to the wall made him a non-player, but a neat trick freed him from his duties there to jump back into the struggle for domination of Westeros, at least the Northern part. Can we leave the rest of Westeros up to Daenerys Targarion? :)
 
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ActionableMango

macrumors G3
Sep 21, 2010
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But the theory referred to above is that Arya and the Waif are the same person, or at least two halves of what Arya used to be: the Stark half and the No One half. So isn't "Arya == Waif" saying that Arya isn't the Waif, in whole or in part?

Oh, if that's the case then I was using it backwards. I'll edit.
 

zmunkz

macrumors 6502a
Nov 4, 2007
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229
It's hard to believe we are all ready up to episode 8 of 10 for Season 6. I've said this before, but I think that 10 episodes for a season is inadequate unless they have slowed down the pace of the story telling.

^ This 100%.

How long is the series supposed to be? I know the books slowly expanded from a planned trilogy to at least a heptalogy... but that would mean everything is supposed to wrap up in just 12 more episodes!? Seems impossible...
 

Huntn

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Original poster
May 5, 2008
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^ This 100%.

How long is the series supposed to be? I know the books slowly expanded from a planned trilogy to at least a heptalogy... but that would mean everything is supposed to wrap up in just 12 more episodes!? Seems impossible...

As far as I know, it's not suppose to wrap up next season. If you look at the books, they are vast and rich narratives. Giving each element of the story 15 minutes an episode does not nearly do this story justice. (I'm a long time complainer of the outline nature of the show. :)) At the rate of 10 episodes per season, I could easily see 2-4 more seasons, if there is any story telling Justice.

If I'm remembering correctly, the fate of Stannis against the Bolton's is a good example of story short cuts in the show. In the book, the battle was not told, after marching on the Bolton's, they got bogged down in deadly snow, and we were left hanging in the book although there may have been rumors. In the show, no thrilling battle, no devistating defeat (anyone correct me if I'm wrong) this conflict was reduced to:
  • Stannis marches on the Bolton's.
  • Stannis loses and Brienne cuts off his head.
And they threw in the BS of him burning his daughter as the reason why he lost support from his forces. Really HBO?
 

Khalanad75

macrumors 6502a
Jul 8, 2015
543
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land of confusion
I thought they had stated that this was the last 10 episode season and then 2 more 6 episode seasons after this to wrap it all up.

With as much of the story all over the place, I don't see how they can wrap up in just 14 more episodes.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
^ This 100%.

How long is the series supposed to be? I know the books slowly expanded from a planned trilogy to at least a heptalogy... but that would mean everything is supposed to wrap up in just 12 more episodes!? Seems impossible...

I thought they had stated that this was the last 10 episode season and then 2 more 6 episode seasons after this to wrap it all up.

With as much of the story all over the place, I don't see how they can wrap up in just 14 more episodes.
Looks like after this season it will likely be down to around 13 or so episodes spanning over 2 seasons to wrap things up:

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/game...-7-director-says-theyre-only-doing-7-episodes

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11481164/game-of-thrones-hbo-renew-seventh-season-premiere-2017
 

eish2306

macrumors regular
Apr 30, 2013
176
49
Wales
But the theory referred to above is that Arya and the Waif are the same person, or at least two halves of what Arya used to be: the Stark half and the No One half. So isn't "Arya == Waif" saying that Arya isn't the Waif, in whole or in part?

In any case, I'm skeptical of that theory—seems a bit cerebral for GoT. But I think that Jaqen was closely involved with what happened in the last episode. I guess we'll find out Sunday, since the next one is titled "No One."

Typo maaybe - it could have worked .... If GRRM had written it so, but and to confirm this I need to binge watch - she sees the waif early on so unless the waif dies when she goes blind and then she splits at the same time I don't see how the split personality works

In the books I don't think it is happening so I don't see how it would happen in the show - something is up though - left handed Arya throws down and picks up the coins with her right hand - as a lefty that doesn't seem right (I do do some things right handed eg use a mouse)
 

iLog.Genius

macrumors 601
Feb 24, 2009
4,925
479
Toronto, Ontario
I read the theory of the Waif/Arya being the same person but I went back to watch the episodes when Arya first reaches and enters the House of Black and White and we clearly see the Waif even before Arya does anything remotely close to becoming a faceless man. Only 3 episodes left so we'll find out soon!
 

Huntn

macrumors Core
Original poster
May 5, 2008
23,972
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The Misty Mountains
I thought they had stated that this was the last 10 episode season and then 2 more 6 episode seasons after this to wrap it all up.

With as much of the story all over the place, I don't see how they can wrap up in just 14 more episodes.

Another possibility, my wife read there was a desire to go to the big screen with this story.
 

Oliverhay

macrumors member
Mar 25, 2012
44
23
Auckland, New Zealand
I agree. I don't think that Jon has a strong desire to be the Warden of the North, but he knows that enlisting all the northern houses and the wildlings offers the only hope of defeating the Night King and his army of White Walkers and wights. In order to do that he first has to eliminate Ramsay Bolton and his clan from Winterfell.
Agree, You can't have enemies on both sides of the wall. Needs to take one one first.
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I think Littlefinger is too obvious as the destination for Sansa's raven...
But it just means she's going to **** it all up. Her raven will be intercepted... They'll know they are coming..
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,461
Another possibility, my wife read there was a desire to go to the big screen with this story.
There's also the possibility of a an HBO movie that would come at the end to wrap it all up, as they have done recently for a few series that they ended.
 
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