Gamer Nexus vs. Linus Media Group

[canadianreader]

I watched his video this morning and I didn’t like it, it felt evil vs good type of stuff or Steve becoming a voice for the silent majority just like what clever politicians do and then once elected they become as evil as whom they warned against. Personally never liked Linus’ vibe or attitude it seemed narcissistic though I enjoyed many helpful videos and I’m thankful for that. But not because someone else also dislikes LMG gonna become the “good” guy. I don’t know why do people always fall into the trap of evil vs good stuff why can’t it be evil vs evil or good vs good…anyways. IMO that’s what they video was trying to portray “we’re good, LMG is bad” at least that’s how I felt it.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I paid him in my time watching his videos. Time is a currency, and that time is converted to ad revenue for them.

So if you watch a bad TV show, do you also feel like they've committed some type of theft? Enough to take them to court?

I'm glad you like your M1 Mac, I have several. I also get lots of entertainment from the videos. But it's just that, entertainment. If you need professional-quality benchmarks to make your purchase decisions, you've been watching the wrong channel.

 

[Spaceboi Scaphandre]

So if you watch a bad TV show, do you also feel like they've committed some type of theft? Enough to take them to court?

I'm glad you like your M1 Mac, I have several. I also get lots of entertainment from the videos. But it's just that, entertainment. If you need professional-quality benchmarks to make your purchase decisions, you've been watching the wrong channel.

I don't think you understand how important Linus' vids are for purchasing decisions, especially for PC parts, a thing that especially warrants accurate testing as one bad part causes problems and now you wasted a lot of money and possibly caused deeper issues with the PC you are building. In the case of Billet Labs, they straight up post false information ignoring vendor instructions, then after admitting they were wrong, still doubled down and said "don't buy this product this product is bad."

 

[maflynn]

All this content is pure entertainment.

That’s the issue when he positioned his channel as a light hearted tech channel that was one thing but he’s positioning his channel for accurate and meaningful tests that people are using for buying decisions

You didn't pay for professional test results/comparisons, so let's not treat it like they have some legal responsibilities

Time is money. Just because I didn’t cut a check doesn’t mean there isn’t an opportunity cost. Yes there’s no legal responsibility but I choose who I want to watch and given this behavior I choose to value integrity and ethics over what he has to offer

 

[BeatCrazy]

That’s the issue when he positioned his channel as a light hearted tech channel that was one thing but he’s positioning his channel for accurate and meaningful tests that people are using for buying decisions

I understand that's his whole strategy for LTT Labs. And he's certainly dug a hole here. But his #1 priority has always been entertainment.

Time is money. Just because I didn’t cut a check doesn’t mean there isn’t an opportunity cost. Yes there’s no legal responsibility but I choose who I want to watch and given this behavior I choose to value integrity and ethics over what he has to offer

Which you're free to do. If I need real data, it costs real money. In my professional work, we pay real money for real research. In order to make real business decisions. Stuff like LTT is still entertainment, unless you want to go through some additional validation.

Remember folks, you get what you pay for.

 

[Ethosik]

I think you're missing my point. If you can avoid a hassle, problem or an issue that someone else created, wouldn't you want to avoid it?

For instance, why driving person A has the right of way, person B, does something stupid that person A could avoid but chooses not too . Yes, person A is in the right but he still got into a fender bender. (this actually happened to me, and yes, I was person A).

Being right and in the clear is not the same thing as having controls or processes to protect yourself.

LTT did not even have permission to auction it off. Again. Lack of permission doesn’t mean you have permission.

I have owned and been part of businesses and have dealt with my share of issues. It will come down to LTT NOT having a signed document stating they can auction it off. If this were to be pursued from that angle. It’s not about needing the victim and ONLY the victim to CYA. And an auction can be more of a legal issue because it could lead to a chain of events that can have a competitor get it and cause Billet Labs to have ongoing and severe issues.

 

[zakarhino]

If you're in any way surprised at Linus' response you haven't been watching Linus long enough. I don't remember a time where Linus took accountability for a mistake without also finding a way to excuse himself by taking issue with the people he wronged and the people that called him out.

Outside of the more humorous videos and some of the content around home upgrades/etc., LTT (more specifically whenever they're showcasing a product) is in the same category as mainstream tech outlets like The Verge who basically act as stenographers for the tech industry -- near zero original critique, just relaying basic facts from a tech sheet and benchmarking program.

Actually they're probably worse than The Verge because at least Vox group have a minimum bar of professionalism. I couldn't imagine them making the Billet Labs mistake and then let Nilay release a rant without having it checked over by legal. Agreeing to send the prototype back and then auctioning it off simply means somebody was very lazy at LMG and didn't perform their job correctly. The ONLY statement you have to make about that situation is "We made a huge mistake, we're going to rectify it to the best of our ability," instead Linus decides to once again tell people he thinks the product is crap. Jawdropping lack of "reading the room" ability (to use Linus' words) on display.

I can't get over the fact that they refuse to delete videos with massive errors like not taking protective stickers off of a mouse before declaring it a dud (oh and then giving that mouse away to people at LTX) or getting their testing completely wrong.

Just absurd all around.

 

[BeatCrazy]

If you're in any way surprised at Linus' response you haven't been watching Linus long enough. I don't remember a time where Linus took accountability for a mistake without also finding a way to excuse himself by taking issue with the people he wronged and the people that called him out.

Outside of the more humorous videos and some of the content around home upgrades/etc., LTT (more specifically whenever they're showcasing a product) is in the same category as mainstream tech outlets like The Verge who basically act as stenographers for the tech industry -- near zero original critique, just relaying basic facts from a tech sheet and benchmarking program.

Actually they're probably worse than The Verge because at least Vox group have a minimum bar of professionalism. I couldn't imagine them making the Billet Labs mistake and then letting Nilay release a statement without having it checked over by legal. Agreeing to send the prototype back and then auctioning it off simply means somebody was very lazy at LMG and didn't perform their job correctly.

I can't get over the fact that they refuse to delete videos with jaw dropping errors like not taking protective stickers off of a mouse before declaring it a dud (oh and then giving that mouse away to people at LTX) or getting their testing completely wrong.

Just absurd all around.

Guaranteed The Verge has more formal QC and legal review for their content, vs. LMG.

 

[3166792]

Which you're free to do. If I need real data, it costs real money. In my professional work, we pay real money for real research. In order to make real business decisions. Stuff like LTT is still entertainment, unless you want to go through some additional validation.

You're not wrong but when your company is valued at over $100m and you sell yourself as more than entertainment, you have a responsibility to meet that standard. Keep in mind, LTT's target demographic is not people like yourself but more... undiscerning people who absolutely don't see it as strictly entertainment.

Keep in mind, LMG's YouTube channels have audiences in the tens of millions.

 

[BeatCrazy]

You're not wrong but when your company is valued at over $100m and you sell yourself as more than entertainment, you have a responsibility to meet that standard. Keep in mind, LTT's target demographic is not people like yourself but more... undiscerning people who absolutely don't see it as strictly entertainment.

Keep in mind, LMG's YouTube channels have audiences in the tens of millions.

All this “$100M valuation” talk from Linus is pure ego stuff. It’s still a (very) small business with literally ~100 employees.

I’m not knocking his accomplishments, but some of you guys (and GN) are feeding into his narrative that he’s a real-big-boy-company. He’s not, he’s entertainment. Regardless of his aspirations or potential. And I think many folks would be better off if they reset their expectations based on a truly pragmatic assessment of what’s going on here.

 

[Queen6]

Yes. Linus should just stop discussing anything Apple. He obviously hates their style. It will never be to custom PC levels. Linus just like to tinker inside the case. Nothing wrong with it. But that means some products are just not for you when you are that person.

That Game Porting Toolkit video from them is just horrible

As @maflynn said he's just playing to an audience as LMG has a dedicated Apple channel which is generally favourable towards Apple so is all theatrics. That said Linus does go over the top. While Apple has room to improve so do all the PC OEM's in far more areas.

Ultimately LMG is only about clicks like the vast majority, equally there are some bastions out there such as GNX.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

All this “$100M valuation” talk from Linus is pure ego stuff. It’s still a (very) small business with literally ~100 employees.

I’m not knocking his accomplishments, but some of you guys (and GN) are feeding into his narrative that he’s a real-big-boy-company. He’s not, he’s entertainment. Regardless of his aspirations or potential. And I think many folks would be better off if they reset their expectations based on a truly pragmatic assessment of what’s going on here.

Personally I dont like the way LMG have handed it. In the past they have called out others and rightfully so, basically saying if there had been an open apology this would have gone away. Now LMG is under the spotlight the owner is just blowing it off, disingenuous at best.

All LNG needed to do was accept, move on with apologies issued and strive to improve. Everyone, every organisation makes mistakes. The key is to learn from them not compound them or worse misrepresent them in the case of Billet Labs. End of the day employees can and do screw up, equally if the company doesn't take responsibility and hold itself accountable then someone else will...

Q-6

 

[MacCheetah3]

Personally I dont like the way LMG have handed it. In the past they have called out others and rightfully so, basically saying if there had been an open apology this would have gone away. Now LMG is under the spotlight the owner is just blowing it off, disingenuous at best.

All LNG needed to do was accept, move on with apologies issued and strive to improve. Everyone, every organisation makes mistakes. The key is to learn from them not compound them or worse misrepresent them in the case of Billet Labs. End of the day employees can and do screw up, equally if the company doesn't take responsibility and hold itself accountable then someone else will...

Q-6

Pretty much reflects:

 

[LeeW]

That response is what I would expect from Linus, he really thinks he is above everyone else.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Pretty much reflects:

Great take from the Hardware Unboxed guys.

 

[HiVolt]

I watch LTT, GN, J2C, HWU, etc... I like all of them for their own reasons, but LTT does seem like it's grown too big for its own good. I'm not up to date with my tech to have realized the errors with LTT's numbers, but they seem to always accuse of Apple of "silly graphs" so the fact that their own graphs are often wrong is kinda funny.

But the "ethical" expose about the bad reviews given because of their own errors and especially giving away the one-off prototype is a tad shady.

I very much respect Steve from GN. He's exposed and contributed to exposing a number of issues in the tech world. I don't think he would have done it unless LTT called him out on the accuracy of his reviews numbers.

 

[TheOtherAndy]

Random Gaming in HD FTW!

 

[Queen6]

Pretty much reflects:

Now the doubt has been cast with solid numbers it's up to LMG to respond positively. Not a weak watered response otherwise their credibility is burnt...

Q-6

 

[throAU]

Let's take a couple of steps back. All this content is pure entertainment. You didn't pay for professional test results/comparisons, so let's not treat it like they have some legal responsibilities. And if LTT has lost some credibility, oh well they make their bed and now they have to lie in it.

Steady on there...

Linus has sold his new endeavours as an extension of their continuing aim to provide reliable consumer advice and they do sell access to their videos via floatplane directly. I.e., he has pushed LTT as a reliable source of tech info, and some people may be paying floatplane directly based on this.

Some countries such as Australia have consumer laws regarding fitness for purpose and merchantability (i.e., if a product -- and make no mistake LMG videos are products -- is deemed as not fit for the purpose for which it was sold or not of merchantable quality you can demand a refund irrespective of the company refund policy) - which may not matter on YouTube, but if you subscribe to floatplane based on LTT being sold as legit review content... there's possibly a legit complaint there. Whether anyone would care to spend enough pursuing it is another matter, but they're not totally in the clear.

This is why even Apple must honour different requirements for warranty in Australia irrespective of AppleCare; a laptop that fails after 18 months here even with no AppleCare is covered by consumer laws (if one were to care to pursue it via the Australian ACCC) here regarding consumer expectations for the lifetime of a high end consumer device.

e.g.

Consumer rights and guarantees

Consumers have the right to expect certain things when they buy a product or service. These rights are protected under consumer law and are known as consumer guarantees.

www.accc.gov.au

Also, attached

 

[BeatCrazy]

Steady on there...

Linus has sold his new endeavours as an extension of their continuing aim to provide reliable consumer advice and they do sell access to their videos via floatplane directly. I.e., he has pushed LTT as a reliable source of tech info, and some people may be paying floatplane directly based on this.

Some countries such as Australia have consumer laws regarding fitness for purpose and merchantability (i.e., if a product -- and make no mistake LMG videos are products -- is deemed as not fit for the purpose for which it was sold or not of merchantable quality you can demand a refund irrespective of the company refund policy) - which may not matter on YouTube, but if you subscribe to floatplane based on LTT being sold as legit review content... there's possibly a legit complaint there. Whether anyone would care to spend enough pursuing it is another matter, but they're not totally in the clear.

This is why even Apple must honour different requirements for warranty in Australia irrespective of AppleCare; a laptop that fails after 18 months here even with no AppleCare is covered by consumer laws (if one were to care to pursue it via the Australian ACCC) here regarding consumer expectations for the lifetime of a high end consumer device.

e.g.

Consumer rights and guarantees

Consumers have the right to expect certain things when they buy a product or service. These rights are protected under consumer law and are known as consumer guarantees.

www.accc.gov.au

Also, attached

Yeah that assumes LTT is a 'specialty paint shop' in your example. Which I would argue they are not. They're not the ones 'selling' you review data. Regardless of the 'opportunity cost' you spent watching their 12 min video.

 

[HiVolt]

I don't think you understand how important Linus' vids are for purchasing decisions, especially for PC parts, a thing that especially warrants accurate testing as one bad part causes problems and now you wasted a lot of money and possibly caused deeper issues with the PC you are building. In the case of Billet Labs, they straight up post false information ignoring vendor instructions, then after admitting they were wrong, still doubled down and said "don't buy this product this product is bad."

Absolutely 100% correct. Big tech review channels on youtube are just as valuable as websites like AnandTech, Tom's Hardware were 20-25 years ago.

I've built my own pc's since the early 90's, and my purchase decisions have definitely been influenced by articles/reviews from magazines in those early days, later from the tech websites, and for the past decade or so, Youtube reviews.

 

[BeatCrazy]

Absolutely 100% correct. Big tech review channels on youtube are just as valuable as websites like AnandTech, Tom's Hardware were 20-25 years ago.

I've built my own pc's since the early 90's, and my purchase decisions have definitely been influenced by articles/reviews from magazines in those early days, later from the tech websites, and for the past decade or so, Youtube reviews.

But you didn’t ‘purchase’ that review data, you watched it on YouTube.

That’s the equivalent of being mad at a radio DJ because he told you a Chevy was faster than a Toyota.

 

[throAU]

Yeah that assumes LTT is a 'specialty paint shop' in your example. Which I would argue they are not. They're not the ones 'selling' you review data. Regardless of the 'opportunity cost' you spent watching their 12 min video.

That is only an example of Australian consumer protection law for the general concept. Our consumer protections here are some of the strongest in the world.

They're promoting their channel as a reliable review site (i.e., a tech specialist media streaming service) and charging money for this on floatplane.

 

[Homy]

Well the numbers speak for themselves. LTT has lost about 300,000 YT subscribers in just two days, from 15.8 million to 15.5 because of this and I think they're going to loose more people because of how they/Linus chose to handle the situation. Not to mention their damaged reputation and relationships with other people in the business.

 

[Homy]

I watched his video this morning and I didn’t like it, it felt evil vs good type of stuff.

Because first ruining a startup company's reputation (Billet Labs) by a completely inaccurate test of their cooler, then calling it a bad product which no one should buy because Linus didn't want to spend another $100-$500 to do a proper test and then selling their only prototype which had costed them a lot to manufacture without their permission instead of returning it and calling it a charity auction is completely unprofessional and pure evil. Such an arrogance is only expected from amateurs, not a $100 million company like LMG, but that's what LMG has become, too big for its own good thinking they’re above everyone else.