Gamer Nexus vs. Linus Media Group

[Queen6]

I watched this as well. I think the criticisms are completely fair, I don't think Steve was in any way wrong about the way that he went about this (nor in the content of his video).

I also haven't unsubscribed from LTT over this personally. Maybe something will come out that will change my mind (there is a lot of stuff that we simply do not know), but as of now, I don't see how any company the size of LMG would be free of controversy or mistakes. These things happen, people are human at the end of the day.

A lot of this comes down to a culture issue in my opinion. A lot of people have probably been afraid to speak their own opinions about LMG for a while because of fear of backlash, and I've noticed some apprehensiveness from certain other Youtubers in this space for a while (with most of them not really sharing why, other than just avoiding the topic when it's brought up). The criticism LMG is getting now seems to be a lot like the floodwaters that rush in after you break a beaver dam. You can pull a stick or two out for a while and it'll hold, but eventually there will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and someone with enough influence will speak out. As soon as that happens, everyone else will join and there will be a tsunami of backlash that happens all at once.

It usually happens when everyone is thinking the same thing, but nobody is able to speak out because of fear of not being taken seriously or because of fear of retaliation. LMG is facing a lot of this right now. People who haven't spoken their feelings for a while are now coming out and speaking out. It's the danger of having a very popular following and a reputation of being untouchable. That sort of thing works for a while, but it's almost better to be hated from the beginning and to have to rise up from the ashes out of it than it is to have a cult following and to eventually get struck down.

Personally, I hope LMG survives all of this. I think the criticisms are fair, and I do think this will take a pretty substantial hit on them in the short term. But I don't think it's something they can't bounce back from either (so long as they are able to address some of the culture changes that made these things so hard to address to begin with). I will say that I liked the LTT response video and do think it was a good response.

What I see is if GN hadn't published and people unsubscribed then LMG would never have made the decision to publicly apologise, shutdown and look to resolve their internal issues. Seen such antics in my own industry with a major multinational. In that instance upper management ignored all the warnings, didnt work out well. Personally I moved on before the bomb went off...

Q-6

 

[ArkSingularity]

What I see is if GN hadn't published and people unsubscribed then LMG would never have made the decision to publicly apologise, shutdown and look to resolve their internal issues. Seen such antics in my own industry with a major multinational. In that instance upper management ignored all the warnings, didnt work out well. Personally I moved on before the bomb went off...

Q-6

You're completely right. There have been people who have spoken out before, but it has had a tendency to get criticized harshly on the WAN show and on other places, so it took something of a much larger caliber to get their attention to say "look, this is serious".

I think that when you have this much attention on you, it can start to create a culture of feeling untouchable. You start to respond to all criticism as though it's "coming from haters" and lose the ability to easily differentiate valid criticism from noise. It's one of the dangers of surrounding yourself with too many yes-men, and I think it's something that fame has a tendency to do to a lot of people.

It's almost better (advantageous even) to start in a somewhat hostile environment and to have to grow your way out of it. When you have to dig yourself out from the bottom, you become much more immune to this sort of thing.

 

[TSE]

Something that rubs me the wrong way with that generic-youtube-apology meme video was they still are defending themselves in a lot of ways. Like, they say "Yeah some of the criticisms we are taking to heart, but not all the criticisms I agree with!"

I've learned to avoid people who did wrong that say things like, "I could blame it on the alcohol, but I won't do that, so I'm sorry" instead of just dropping the ego and shutting the **** up about anything outside of the actual infraction. This came off a lot like that, but again, there's a very well known youtube apology meme and this certainly follows that. Linus's wife's acting was pretty terrible and the most cringe-inducing part. I grade their effort a D+.

At the end of the day, it's just a stupid youtube channel that takes up a few minutes of my day so I'll keep watching.

 

[TokyoKiller]

Never been a Linus guy and something about his videos always rubbed me the wrong way. He (now they as a media group) rather pander to the majority to get the views and hits they need for $$$ as opposed to being a genuine critic of technology for all and the industry.

Not surprised they are shaking the cage now that there are others trying to each a piece of their pie.

 

[Queen6]

Sad, but I always felt (even like 5 years ago when I first started watching him) that Linus reminded me of the most abusive boss I ever had. Just had that same type of energy and his condescending deprecating jokes towards his employees would sometimes slip into videos.

Been there done that, being ex military dont put up with such behaviour.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

What I see is if GN hadn't published and people unsubscribed then LMG would never have made the decision to publicly apologise, shutdown and look to resolve their internal issues. Seen such antics in my own industry with a major multinational. In that instance upper management ignored all the warnings, didnt work out well. Personally I moved on before the bomb went off...

Q-6

Doing things behind the scenes, to affect change, particularly culture change never works. If anything doing such antics smacks of good old boy network protecting themselves.

I think Linus in particular and LMG in general needed to be taken to task, and done so publicly. Will the channels change? Will we see an improvement in quality? Only time will tell, but we all are imperfect human beings and Linus, like the rest of us has to grow from from this failing.

Looking back, its clear he's dismissive, feels his way is always the right way, and doesn't like to admit he's wrong. Watching him in videos is now a bit harder then it used to. I don't see any advantage of continuing to watch their videos, when there's so many other Yters out there

 

[ArkSingularity]

Doing things behind the scenes, to affect change, particularly culture change never works. If anything doing such antics smacks of good old boy network protecting themselves.

I think Linus in particular and LMG in general needed to be taken to task, and done so publicly. Will the channels change? Will we see an improvement in quality? Only time will tell, but we all are imperfect human beings and Linus, like the rest of us has to grow from from this failing.

Looking back, its clear he's dismissive, feels his way is always the right way, and doesn't like to admit he's wrong. Watching him in videos is now a bit harder then it used to. I don't see any advantage of continuing to watch their videos, when they there's so many other Yters out there

This is part of why I think that cult followings are a huge disadvantage. Underdogs often win in the end, partly because they've had no choice but to respond to criticism gracefully and to learn from it from the very beginning. They depend on people being willing to vouch for them against popular opinion, they have had to grow in an environment that subjected them to a lot of criticism and never gave them the opportunity to be portrayed as being above it.

It's the danger of ever letting too much success get to your head. The moment you do, you've marked a much harder path on the road ahead.

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

Something that rubs me the wrong way with that generic-youtube-apology meme video was they still are defending themselves in a lot of ways. Like, they say "Yeah some of the criticisms we are taking to heart, but not all the criticisms I agree with!"

I've learned to avoid people who did wrong that say things like, "I could blame it on the alcohol, but I won't do that, so I'm sorry" instead of just dropping the ego and shutting the **** up about anything outside of the actual infraction. This came off a lot like that, but again, there's a very well known youtube apology meme and this certainly follows that. Linus's wife's acting was pretty terrible and the most cringe-inducing part. I grade their effort a D+.

At the end of the day, it's just a stupid youtube channel that takes up a few minutes of my day so I'll keep watching.

Yep! And they also seem to say something like "At the end of the day, I'm a person." Wow stop the presses! jeez man, just apologize for the thing you did.... your friggin personhood was never being questioned. It's like a mask that they put on when it suits them. When things are going great, they are gods. When they screw up... hey man, I'm just, like, a person, y'know?

 

[Queen6]

Doing things behind the scenes, to affect change, particularly culture change never works. If anything doing such antics smacks of good old boy network protecting themselves.

I think Linus in particular and LMG in general needed to be taken to task, and done so publicly. Will the channels change? Will we see an improvement in quality? Only time will tell, but we all are imperfect human beings and Linus, like the rest of us has to grow from from this failing.

Looking back, its clear he's dismissive, feels his way is always the right way, and doesn't like to admit he's wrong. Watching him in videos is now a bit harder then it used to. I don't see any advantage of continuing to watch their videos, when there's so many other Yters out there

Is simple we have to cease seeing ourselves as consumers, we are the end customer and companies have to acknowledge that. Consumer culture is one of the worst ever concepts ever. It only serves to serve the manufacturer.

If enough people cease to purchase, just see how fast they will turn around. In this specific case LMG has seen a downtrend and reacted accordingly. That's just how it works...

Q-6

 

[BeatCrazy]

That's not a very fair comparison. By your logic, your opinion shouldn't be influenced by anything you watch on TV - because you didn't explicitly pay for the content of a documentary or an evening news broadcast.

Edit

I just watched the "what do we do now" video, and it seems they realized they f'd up and are attempting to fix the issues. I hope it works out, as I have no desire to see LTT be ruined or anything.

Well people are talking about lawsuits and stuff. They need to keep expectations in check. It’s a freaking YouTube channel.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Well people are talking about lawsuits and stuff. They need to keep expectations in check. It’s a freaking YouTube channel.

I'm personally not one to really base my purchasing decisions off of a single youtube channel anyway. Even the most credible and knowledgable people in the industry will still sometimes be wrong.

 

[3166792]

It’s a freaking YouTube channel.

I think we need to erase this notion we have that it's "just" a YouTube channel. For better or worse, these channels have huge viewership that the major US news networks would die for.

 

[BeatCrazy]

I think we need to erase this notion we have that it's "just" a YouTube channel. For better or worse, these channels have huge viewership that the major US news networks would die for.

OK, then it's 'just another media outlet'. No one personally paid $100K for LTT to give you a comprehensive analysis of any particular product, that you used to make financial or safety decisions based on the output.

 

[Ethosik]

OK, then it's 'just another media outlet'. No one personally paid $100K for LTT to give you a comprehensive analysis of any particular product, that you used to make financial or safety decisions based on the output.

It's a channel that has 15 million subscribers. You can say it all day long, but there will be MANY MANY people that will base purchasing decisions off a "media outlet" of this size.

You do realize that advertisements during TV shows and things actually work right? People don't call up consultants and spend $500 an hour with them to see if a product is a good fit.

 

[ArkSingularity]

It's a channel that has 15 million subscribers. You can say it all day long, but there will be MANY MANY people that will base purchasing decisions off a "media outlet" of this size.

You do realize that advertisements during TV shows and things actually work right? People don't call up consultants and spend $500 an hour with them to see if a product is a good fit.

Nobody is saying people won't base their purchasing decisions off of this. Just that the talk of lawsuits is way too far for this (which is the context of the conversation you are replying to).

At the end of the day, it's never a good idea to get your information from a single source, no matter how credible that source is. People should always research before spending a lot of money, a court of law isn't going to give you your money back just because a reviewer wasn't impartial enough when reviewing the product.

 

[Homy]

Well people are talking about lawsuits and stuff. They need to keep expectations in check. It’s a freaking YouTube channel.

LMG is a $100 million company. I just read about how the former employee Madison Suop was treated and have to say LTT is more rotten than I thought.

"I was told I was chunky, fat, ugly, stupid" - YouTuber Madison Suop opens up and reveals why she left Linus Media Group amid recent controversy

Madison Suop, known as SuopOnYoutube, has recently shared some startling updates concerning her experiences during her tenure at Linus Media Group.

www.sportskeeda.com

 

[splifingate]

I think Gamers Nexus does a better job at testing things than LTT.

Comparing the two (in my mind), they both really do get to the meat of the situ; but, (subjectively), Steve really seems to provide much more of a sober assessment than Sebastian does.

I like that

 

[ArkSingularity]

Comparing the two (in my mind), they both really do get to the meat of the situ; but, (subjectively), Steve really seems to provide much more of a sober assessment than Sebastian does.

I like that

Yea. LMG is better entertainment but GN is where I'd go for more more serious information if I was trying to make a purchasing decision.

 

[throAU]

What I see is if GN hadn't published and people unsubscribed then LMG would never have made the decision to publicly apologise,

See, I've been a long term viewer and seen him do exactly this several times previously.

Like I said I think he's genuinely trying to be one of the good guys but he makes mistakes - and as I said above, every time he does there are millions of people watching and the internet is an echo chamber.

Now, the Madison thing... not going to comment (much) on that (wasn't there who knows what was going on, etc.) other than to say I believe it could have (or even probably) happened, given the demographic of the staff employed, the age, maturity levels, the lead up to how she was hired, etc. and the speed of the company growth. It needs to be investigated and sorted out. That's not an excuse by any means, merely an observation.

I consider that issue to be seperate from Linus' public facepalm with regards to the review process, follow up calamity, etc.

 

[Ethosik]

Now, the Madison thing... not going to comment on that (wasn't there who knows what was going on, etc.) other than to say I believe it could have (or even probably) happened, given the demographic of the staff employed, the age, maturity levels, etc. and the speed of the company growth. It needs to be investigated and sorted out.

Only thing I will touch on with that is, I think Social Media and everything kind of did more harm than good. I have seen too many cases where this stuff is made up where I can't believe anyone anymore. Which is a shame. It needs to be investigated and sorted out. I don't think others should speak on it as we don't know for sure what happened.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Only thing I will touch on with that is, I think Social Media and everything kind of did more harm than good. I have seen too many cases where this stuff is made up where I can't believe anyone anymore. Which is a shame. It needs to be investigated and sorted out. I don't think others should speak on it as we don't know for sure what happened.

A lot of it is just... I'm not sure we really have enough information for me to feel completely confident in saying that we have the full story yet. Based on what I've seen, I have no idea if it was just some guy that's no longer employed there who was trying to flirt in a creepy manner, or whether it was something much worse.

They're apparently doing an investigation, so I don't have any doubts that whatever we need to see will come out in time. I just want to make sure it's not tainted by internet sensationalism first.

Edit: Checked Twitter again... Yea, what an absolute mess.

 

[throAU]

Only thing I will touch on with that is, I think Social Media and everything kind of did more harm than good. I have seen too many cases where this stuff is made up where I can't believe anyone anymore. Which is a shame. It needs to be investigated and sorted out. I don't think others should speak on it as we don't know for sure what happened.

There's a leaked video floating around of a meeting from the day after she quit, the allegations go back that far.

I'd say that assuming she's lying, given the demographic employed (read:a large quantity of young male nerds - who stereotypically have poor social skills especially with the opposite sex) is premature.

She should most definitely be given the benefit of the doubt, as should anyone who has decided to come forward with allegations of abuse.

 

[Ethosik]

There's a leaked video floating around of a meeting from the day after she quit, the allegations go back that far.

I'd say that assuming she's lying, given the demographic employed (read:a large quantity of young male nerds - who stereotypically have poor social skills especially with the opposite sex) is premature.

She should most definitely be given the benefit of the doubt, as should anyone who has decided to come forward with allegations of abuse.

I have seen literally 20 of these cases that turned out false, and has lead to ruining the person they were "complaining" about or ruining a company's rep. All I am saying is this is what Social Media has done where it is VERY hard to trust someone these days.

She could very well be telling the truth. But it is a lot more difficult to believe with the current climate of false allegations.

Believing her at face value is premature too. That is why this should NOT be discussed by ANYONE. Leave it up to her and LTT and let it go.

Things have literally turned into "Guilty until proven innocent" with social media these days. Which is why I stay out of it. I only post on here, and I NEVER say anything that could trace back to me by name or businesses or anything.

It seems similar to this in some ways. @1:39:30 time

And the classic case of Amber Heard and Johnny Depp. His career and rep was ruined. And it was ruled in court that nearly everything was false.

 

[tcatsninfan]

Anytime YouTube recommends a tech channel to me, I give it a chance. Maybe I won't like every single video, but maybe I'll learn some good stuff along the way. But here are some problematic ones for me:

• Mrwhosetheboss: I'm on the fence about this channel. He has some interesting stuff sometimes, like when he went into detail about how a lot of old Samsung phone batteries were expanding too early, but many of his videos are just junk. I don't need to see him buy a bunch of crap on Wish.com and send it to the landfill as soon as he's done recording.
• Unbox Therapy: This guy is just a corporate shill. He'll make a video for any company that pays him. He says things that are just patently false sometimes.
• Louis Rossmann: An angry man who loves to sit in a La-Z-Boy and complain. He has some good points sometimes, but he isn't objective and seems manic in some of his videos.
• Linus: Very smug and arrogant man, similar to Rossmann in that way, who shifts blame onto others and makes way too many excuses. Some of his staff members are cool, but I don't watch any videos that feature Linus himself anymore.

 

[TSE]

Anytime YouTube recommends a tech channel to me, I give it a chance. Maybe I won't like every single video, but maybe I'll learn some good stuff along the way. But here are some problematic ones for me:

• Mrwhosetheboss: I'm on the fence about this channel. He has some interesting stuff sometimes, like when he went into detail about how a lot of old Samsung phone batteries were expanding too early, but many of his videos are just junk. I don't need to see him buy a bunch of crap on Wish.com and send it to the landfill as soon as he's done recording.
• Unbox Therapy: This guy is just a corporate shill. He'll make a video for any company that pays him. He says things that are just patently false sometimes.
• Louis Rossmann: An angry man who loves to sit in a La-Z-Boy and complain. He has some good points sometimes, but he isn't objective and seems manic in some of his videos.
• Linus: Very smug and arrogant man, similar to Rossmann in that way, who shifts blame onto others and makes way too many excuses. Some of his staff members are cool, but I don't watch any videos that feature Linus himself anymore.

And good ones? Here's mine.

MobileTechReview: Lisa is a sweetheart that has a passion for technology. Her reviews are in-depth, she often opens up the device to inspect details that may affect user experience, and she is impressively as close to objective as you'll get. She really does give every product and brand an equal chance.

Dave2D: I like him the most as far as surface-level reviews go. He has honestly unique, yet reasonable insights into products, tends to stay away from clickbait (although flirting with that route a couple years ago), and his product recommendations aren't always $2999 top-of-the line items like almost every tech youtuber claims to be able to afford, use, and recommend to the average joe-schmoe. He be like," You know, this item is 10% lighter, has an hour extra of battery life, and it looks cool, but I honestly can't recommend you spend a thousand dollars over their cheaper option." He feels authentic and trustworthy. Oh! And he still works in IT! So he has REAL life experience and isn't just a cinematographer who loves tech.

Notebookcheck: Most technically excellent reviews in my opinion. Love their site and love their youtube channel. Their in-depth testing and analysis of every detail is honestly insane. I expect nothing less from Germans. That being said, they are often late to getting their reviews out, often 3-4 months after a release, not always, but often.

MacRumors: I love their reviews and podcast. I actually enjoy hearing and listening to consumer tech in the lens of an Apple-centric viewpoint. Love the hosts. Love the guests they have on the show. It just feels like two friends talking about technology over a coffee. And their reviews, while surface level, aren't full of fluff and well executed for what they are: Technology reviews in the eye of an Apple fanboy. I loved the latest Samsung tablet review, for example, highlighting things he wish the iPad had, while showing areas where Apple executes much better at.



Meh Options:

MKBHD: He knows what works. Macro shots of products in interesting angles with as much bokeh as you can possibly get out of your lens with after effects on top for 18 minutes. His reviews have gotten so surface level that before I gave up on watching his videos, I started asking myself,"What did I just learn from this video that the specs on the box didn't already tell me?" That being said, his reviews are the best for understanding for the look and feel of a product without actually holding it. Listening to the videos on mute do the same thing for me, if not more.

LinusTechTips: Biased, technically-surface level reviews. But entertaining! It's like tech-geek porn and not the real thing and that's ok! A lot of the personalities they have in their videos are enjoyable to listen to and watch. Sometimes the insights are good and honestly, as a person whose biased towards Apple, it's good to hear the other side that doesn't overdo it like it's their gimmick. *cough cough* Louis Rossmann *cough cough*



My Unpopular Opinions:

Mrwhosetheboss: Youtube QVC targeted towards teenagers. Wow! You just showed me every iPhone of the past 15 years without any actual analysis! You're so cool and a genius! No thanks. The only thing he's good at is paying off the Youtube Algorithm so I have to see his annoying face every time I look for real content.

Frontpagetech: Not a review persay, but I actually find him entertaining and his videos are so quick and to the point aside from the occasional silly joke that I love it. That's the way youtube content should be. Not milking 10 minutes so you get ad revenue.