Gamer Nexus vs. Linus Media Group

[Lihp8270]

He has such a closed mind stating it's not going to matter, his test (even thought it was on a non-compatible card) was so thorough and good that using the right card won't matter. Secondly, he's pissing and moaning about spending about 100 bucks when he doesn't bat an eyelash in dropping 10k on the stupidest things? Its just wrong on all counts

I understand his point. Regarding the compatible card not mattering. But it’s so poorly communicated, and entirely unfair to Billet Labs.

Even with good performance it’s an $800 cooler that would be hard to recommend for anybody other than for style factor. So I see what he’s saying. But that video should never have gone out like that. Spending extra to retest on the correct card wouldn’t have been necessary if they got it right to start with.

I feel LTT has gone a bit stale over the years. Pretty much all I watch these days are the odd intriguing videos like the billet labs one and the WAN show.

 

[Wokis]

Ex-employee Madison (famous from originally winning a contest, partaking in a very popular video and later getting employed) has now gone out with her story on why she quit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15shoyx
TLDR: She claims she experienced horrid workplace conditions, received disrespectful treatment and yes, sexual harassment.

 

[Lihp8270]

Ex-employee Madison (famous from originally winning a contest, partaking in a very popular video and later getting employed) has now gone out with her story on why she quit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LinusTechTips/comments/15shoyx
TLDR: She claims she experienced horrid workplace conditions, received disrespectful treatment and yes, sexual harassment.

That’s quite a shocking read and very different to the image that Linus presents.

I’m not sure how they come out of this and if true hope there’s serious repercussions for the company. I doubt we will ever hear a response to the posts as I’m sure LMG will be lawyering up.

 

[maflynn]

Well the numbers speak for themselves. LTT has lost about 300,000 YT subscribers in just two days, from 15.8 million to 15.5 because of this and I think they're going to loose more people because of how they/Linus chose to handle the situation. Not to mention their damaged reputation and relationships with other people in the business.

That is staggering, and goes to show how a not to handle criticisms and controversy. I think the PR type people who are good at honing people's images will tell you to get ahead of the problem, admit your mistakes and provide evidence that you're working to improve.

If Linus came out and admitted his failings and took responsibility, things would probably have turned out differently. I expect at this point follow up video from him and maybe he'll be a bit more circumspect. His forum which by the way looks like its offline

I looked yesterday and people were basically posting on his profile and hammering him, so not only was that thread hugely active - something like 126 pages of posts when I last looked but they were going out their way to communicate via his profile

I didn't know how many people he lost, I looked late yesterday at he was down to 15.6 million and this morning its 15.5. I don't expect him to shed millions of followers, I think the shear majority of followers have no idea about this controversy which is probably why Linus doesn't want to do a video or talk about it during the WAN show. I think he was just trying to sweep it under the carpet.

Whether, 3 million or 300,000 people drop him, doesn't matter to me, its just a YT channel, and while enjoyable in the past, I've moved on, and I'll get my tech news, information from other sites.

 

[maflynn]

Ex-employee Madison

I wondered what happened to her, I liked her - she was quirky and brought some zaniness to the videos she was in

 

[ricketysquire]

I don't know, I just can't get into Linus or Gamers Nexus. I prefer the low budget YouTubers talking about old tech like Action Retro, Cathode Ray Dude, LGR and more. They just seem more genuine and passionate versus another clickbate "look we got a 4k video card zOMG and we're going to put it in a 10k system to play 4k games at 1000 fps".

I hate how mainstream the tech space has become.

 

[maflynn]

Chris Titus, waded into this issue, as with many other YTers.

He mentions a few things but here's just some things that struck me

• He mentions that in LTX (Linus's tech conference that he just held) he learned LMG makes 50% of their money from merchandising.
• He has no idea why a tech entertainment channel pivoted into the testing area with a new lab, but he postulates that its to grow the merchandising side of the business
• Ethics/Favoritism. He (as I do) openly quesstioned how to provide impartial reviews when Linus is heavily invested in Framework. The labs director is from ASUS, and the Notcua relationship.

I include the video for the sake of backing up what I post, but it really doesn't add too much more to the conversation

 

[BigPhil]

The Title of this thread is disingenuous. There's no "Vs"

It's 1 group pointing out objective wrongdoing

 

[Queen6]

That is staggering, and goes to show how a not to handle criticisms and controversy. I think the PR type people who are good at honing people's images will tell you to get ahead of the problem, admit your mistakes and provide evidence that you're working to improve.

If Linus came out and admitted his failings and took responsibility, things would probably have turned out differently. I expect at this point follow up video from him and maybe he'll be a bit more circumspect. His forum which by the way looks like its offline
View attachment 2246577
I looked yesterday and people were basically posting on his profile and hammering him, so not only was that thread hugely active - something like 126 pages of posts when I last looked but they were going out their way to communicate via his profile

I didn't know how many people he lost, I looked late yesterday at he was down to 15.6 million and this morning its 15.5. I don't expect him to shed millions of followers, I think the shear majority of followers have no idea about this controversy which is probably why Linus doesn't want to do a video or talk about it during the WAN show. I think he was just trying to sweep it under the carpet.

Whether, 3 million or 300,000 people drop him, doesn't matter to me, its just a YT channel, and while enjoyable in the past, I've moved on, and I'll get my tech news, information from other sites.

TBH LMG and predominately it's owners have simply shown their true colours. What is certain is that the issue will continue to escalate as it's big news on YT's tech front...

Given the very negative reponse by the community to Linus's post I'm hardly surprised they took the thread down, narcissists at their best. I just find it unacceptable and completely two faced that LMG calls out others, yet acts like children when caught out...

Still down;

Q-6

 

[TSE]

Sad, but I always felt (even like 5 years ago when I first started watching him) that Linus reminded me of the most abusive boss I ever had. Just had that same type of energy and his condescending deprecating jokes towards his employees would sometimes slip into videos. I thought that video they made public where it was people speaking on working at LMG and their thoughts on Linus was just.... weird.

Always got weird vibes from that channel, but was always pretty entertained by it. Will probably continue to watch it as long as I am. People that used it for technical information were always mistaken, imo. Go to mobiletechreview, notebookcheck, etc. for technical aspects of products.

 

[Lihp8270]

The new CEO video has dropped and I’m watching it atm.

Yvonne calls out Linus that as CFO not wanting to spend money was just wrong, and Linus made an “egregious judgement error”

Gary, head of labs also called out Linus for being incorrect about retesting.

Interestingly, when Billet Labs passed their emails to GN, and asked them to redact the prototype cost, LTT have just shown the full email with the price included. Oops.

 

[maflynn]

The new CEO video has dropped and I’m watching it atm.

Here's the video for others to watch and make their own decision
I just finished watching it, and I feel that its an honest and sincere apology, taking ownership and responsibility. I think if something like this was released after Steve's video this issue would largely be much ado about nothing. Linus did make matters so much worse.

I don't know if I'll re-subscribe but I am a person that forgives and I think this move was needed and I'm happy they chose to do the right but harder thing

 

[HiVolt]

But you didn’t ‘purchase’ that review data, you watched it on YouTube.

That’s the equivalent of being mad at a radio DJ because he told you a Chevy was faster than a Toyota.

That's not a very fair comparison. By your logic, your opinion shouldn't be influenced by anything you watch on TV - because you didn't explicitly pay for the content of a documentary or an evening news broadcast.

Edit

I just watched the "what do we do now" video, and it seems they realized they f'd up and are attempting to fix the issues. I hope it works out, as I have no desire to see LTT be ruined or anything.

 

[Queen6]

Here's the video for others to watch and make their own decision
I just finished watching it, and I feel that its an honest and sincere apology, taking ownership and responsibility. I think if something like this was released after Steve's video this issue would largely be much ado about nothing. Linus did make matters so much worse.

I don't know if I'll re-subscribe but I am a person that forgives and I think this move was needed and I'm happy they chose to do the right but harder thing

Mostly, however at this point LMG had little other choice given the backlash. As ever time will tell...

Q-6

 

[TSE]

That's not a very fair comparison. By your logic, your opinion shouldn't be influenced by anything you watch on TV - because you didn't explicitly pay for the content of a documentary or an evening news broadcast.

Edit

I just watched the "what do we do now" video, and it seems they realized they f'd up and are attempting to fix the issues. I hope it works out, as I have no desire to see LTT be ruined or anything.

If I make a post with incorrect data on MacRumors forum, am I liable because it took time out of your day reading it? No. Will it ruin my reputation and people will simply start ignoring me? Yes. Same is starting to happen here, although they will have to continue doing it for years before they are truly done.

Again, ever going to LMG for technical information was never wise to anyone. Their brand was never that and I don't think they ever tried to make it appear that way. They (and I would argue 95% of tech channels on youtube) are just rebadged QVC for tech nerds. Anyone that is offended that they were duped or some numbers were off have only but themselves to blame.

And can you blame them? Linus is a businessman first and foremost. My abusive ass boss was, too. Look at the numbers that technically excellent publications and channels do, then look at the numbers that channels like LMG, MKBHD, and Unbox Therapy do and tell me you wouldn't make the same decision if you were a business-first person. People like seeing macro shots of tech with extreme bokeh for 12 minutes vs. technical excellence. Just a fact.

 

[maflynn]

Mostly, however at this point LMG had little other choice given the backlash. As ever time will tell...

Q-6

Oh no question, but they had doubled down before, so its definitely a good move on their part. I believe this is all due to the new CEO, if he wasn't there, then this video wouldn't have been made

 

[Wokis]

If I make a post with incorrect data on MacRumors forum, am I liable because it took time out of your day reading it? No. Will it ruin my reputation and people will simply start ignoring me? Yes. Same is starting to happen here, although they will have to continue doing it for years before they are truly done.

Again, ever going to LMG for technical information was never wise to anyone. Their brand was never that and I don't think they ever tried to make it appear that way. They (and I would argue 95% of tech channels on youtube) are just rebadged QVC for tech nerds. Anyone that is offended that they were duped or some numbers were off have only but themselves to blame.

Thing is this critique originated from the push of going more serious with test data from "LTT Labs". So, previously, you should have taken their conclusions with a grain of salt and just enjoyed the entertainment factor, but now they were supposed to be industry-leading.

 

[throAU]

Here's the video for others to watch and make their own decision
I just finished watching it, and I feel that its an honest and sincere apology, taking ownership and responsibility. I think if something like this was released after Steve's video this issue would largely be much ado about nothing. Linus did make matters so much worse.

I don't know if I'll re-subscribe but I am a person that forgives and I think this move was needed and I'm happy they chose to do the right but harder thing

Pretty much what needed to come out.

Obvious blunder(s) by Linus, not the first time. I think his statement that he will be running crisis comms through the rest of the execs is a good move.

He isn't just a guy in his bedroom any more and shooting from the hip puts both his and his employee's livelihood at risk.

I'm a subscriber, still am.

 

[throAU]

I believe this is all due to the new CEO, if he wasn't there, then this video wouldn't have been made

I think something like this would have been made for sure, Linus is an asshat from time to time (because he's emotionally invested and sometimes defensive by default) but generally figures out that he's wrong (maybe after Yvonne sets him straight at the end of the work day or whatever) and sees things properly in a few days and responds.

its happened before, I think that perhaps it was just quicker this time as he's got someone not emotionally attached as the new CEO (smart move) to get this pushed out quicker this time.


TLDR: Linus seems to be genuinely trying to do the right thing, but he's gone from a dude in his bedroom reviewing tech to the founder of a 80-100 employee YouTube empire much quicker than most people would be able to handle and due to the nature of the business all his faillures/mistakes are on display and critically analysed by millions of people on the internet.

I'm sure everyone here has screwed up at work many times before, this is no different other than millions of people calling him out over it.

 

[TSE]

Thing is this critique originated from the push of going more serious with test data from "LTT Labs". So, previously, you should have taken their conclusions with a grain of salt and just enjoyed the entertainment factor, but now they were supposed to be industry-leading.

Again, if I make a post on MacRumors with technically inaccurate info, and I say it's sponsored by "TSE Labs" - whose fault is it that someone doesn't see through the BS? In an extreme example, whose fault is it, the MLM scheme or the people that sign up for them that encourage them to exist?

People just get duped by pretty production on youtube. In this case, people get duped by LMG's personalities and nerd humor they have consistently on video . I hinted at the silliness of the Youtube tech community years ago in this thread here.

 

[Queen6]

Oh no question, but they had doubled down before, so its definitely a good move on their part. I believe this is all due to the new CEO, if he wasn't there, then this video wouldn't have been made

LMG should address the issue on it's own forum then lock the thread. They should also take down the Billet Labs review which is still up. Better get the prototype monobloc back and return it. In fairness they have also very likely had their hands full...

Q-6

 

[Wokis]

Again, if I make a post on MacRumors with technically inaccurate info, and I say it's sponsored by "TSE Labs" - whose fault is it that someone doesn't see through the BS? In an extreme example, whose fault is it, the MLM scheme or the people that sign up for them that encourage them to exist?

People just get duped by pretty production on youtube. In this case, people get duped by LMG's personalities and nerd humor they have consistently on video . I hinted at the silliness of the Youtube tech community years ago in this thread here.

That is indeed an extreme example. Nonsensical, I might add.

 

[TSE]

That is indeed an extreme example. Nonsensical, I might add.

It really isn't. It comes down to whose responsibility is it, the people who get duped (in this case, people who took LMG as a serious technically-excellent publication when they clearly aren't) or the company that makes money from those people (in this case, LMG for posting surface-level technical content on top of entertainment-focused videos).

 

[AgeOfSpiracles]

new CEO, if he wasn't there, then this video wouldn't have been made

I disagree... it's the same old youtuber playbook, going back a million years.

Offend -> defy -> half-apologize -> apologize -> forget

 

[ArkSingularity]

Here's the video for others to watch and make their own decision
I just finished watching it, and I feel that its an honest and sincere apology, taking ownership and responsibility. I think if something like this was released after Steve's video this issue would largely be much ado about nothing. Linus did make matters so much worse.

I don't know if I'll re-subscribe but I am a person that forgives and I think this move was needed and I'm happy they chose to do the right but harder thing

I watched this as well. I think the criticisms are completely fair, I don't think Steve was in any way wrong about the way that he went about this (nor in the content of his video).

I also haven't unsubscribed from LTT over this personally. Maybe something will come out that will change my mind (there is a lot of stuff that we simply do not know), but as of now, I don't see how any company the size of LMG would be free of controversy or mistakes. These things happen, people are human at the end of the day.

A lot of this comes down to a culture issue in my opinion. A lot of people have probably been afraid to speak their own opinions about LMG for a while because of fear of backlash, and I've noticed some apprehensiveness from certain other Youtubers in this space for a while (with most of them not really sharing why, other than just avoiding the topic when it's brought up). The criticism LMG is getting now seems to be a lot like the floodwaters that rush in after you break a beaver dam. You can pull a stick or two out for a while and it'll hold, but eventually there will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and someone with enough influence will speak out. As soon as that happens, everyone else will join and there will be a tsunami of backlash that happens all at once.

It usually happens when everyone is thinking the same thing, but nobody is able to speak out because of fear of not being taken seriously or because of fear of retaliation. LMG is facing a lot of this right now. It's the danger of having a very popular following and a reputation of being untouchable. That sort of thing works for a while, but it's almost better to be hated from the beginning and to have to rise up from the ashes out of it than it is to have a cult following and to eventually get struck down.

Personally, I hope LMG survives all of this. I think the criticisms are fair, and I do think this will take a pretty substantial hit on them in the short term. But I don't think it's something they can't bounce back from either (so long as they are able to address some of the culture changes that made these things so hard to address to begin with). I will say that I liked the LTT response video and do think it was a good response.