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No one is railroading me. Everyone in my life is Apple based for a reason, because we’ve collectively agreed on its superiority. There’s nothing even remotely tempting me to switch to Android. It doesn’t offer anything that I’m missing. I don’t need “customization”. I need a rock solid device that “just works” and is supported for years. I also don’t want my carrier to approve my software updates. :rolleyes:

Aren’t the pluses of Apple well documented? No fragmentation, longer support for updates (pixel is almost only rival here), beautiful design (subjective but many think so) customer service, integration (AirPods are truly amazing), focus on privacy...probably more.

Why does somebody who chooses Apple because they happen to think they are the Best option for them have to defend that choice? Or they are assumed to be railroaded. Crazy.
 
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Nothing superior. Carriers are no longer reqd to certify updates in post Project Treble Android.

Hasn't always been true but is now. And iOS has never been all roses. Not 9.1 not 10.1 it 11 1. Normally not until the dot 3 version. And you only get support if you are on latest build, because support is yanked very fast.

The blind leading the blind?
iOS is all roses for me. If it weren’t, I would have switched. My iPhone is my primary work tool and I need it to be butter smooth and rock solid. It’s never failed me.
 
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Yeah...except nobody in my life uses google photo. So if I did, I would be left out.

And that’s only one thing. Android never implemented anything similar to iMessage and FaceTime for their users. You still have to rely on third parties. Nothing beats going into your contacts, tapping the little camera icon and being on video chat within seconds.
Well thats the whole issue with Apples stupid walled garden, you all have to use an iPhone to benefit. Google photos on the other hand is there for anyone to use. Same deal with iMessage, sure its a great app but only iPhones users benefit, then you have Whatsapp thats provides the exact same features to EVERYONE. There are awesome alternatives to all the Apple apps its just that Walled garden keeps you closed off from the rest of the world. Apple are smart they do it on purpose to trap people and make it very hard for someone to want to leave all the while profiting massively from their heavily marked up hardware.
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iOS is a lot smoother than a Samsung phone with BloatWiz. I think BloatWiz is a huge chunk of the problem

Let me tell you the S9+ runs better then the iPhone X. The better ram management alone makes it far superior.
 
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Well thats the whole issue with Apples stupid walled garden, you all have to use an iPhone to benefit. Google photos on the other hand is there for anyone to use. Same deal with iMessage, sure its a great app but only iPhones users benefit, then you have Whatsapp thats provides the exact same features to EVERYONE. There are awesome alternatives to all the Apple apps its just that Walled garden keeps you closed off from the rest of the world. Apple are smart they do it on purpose to trap people and make it very hard for someone to want to leave all the while profiting massively from their heavily marked up hardware.
Isn’t it interesting that Apple users have all these third party services available to us and yet we still choose the walled garden version over the third party version? Besides, I don’t trust google. They don’t produce a product, you ARE their product. I’ll just continue paying my Apple tax....

Oh, and once again....AIRPODS... The best things ever created in the history of the universe.
 
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Isn’t it interesting that Apple users have all these third party services available to us and yet we still choose the walled garden version over the third party version? Besides, I don’t trust google. They don’t produce a product, you ARE their product. I’ll just continue paying my Apple tax....

Oh, and once again....AIRPODS... The best things ever created in the history of the universe.

Your response just shows why Apple are such a successful company. Some serious Marketing and Strategy genius going on at Cupertino. Im not going to argue with you over which services pound for pound are better as its a pointless exercise when someone has been caught in the Apple Eco system like you have. It clouds your judgement and leads to pure bias.

Oh and Airpods are not even the best wireless headphones avaliable let alone wired. ;)
 
Isn’t it interesting that Apple users have all these third party services available to us and yet we still choose the walled garden version over the third party version?

Careful, don’t make overreaching statements over what services ”we” (as iPhone users, I assume) use. Over here in Europe also iPhone users are likely to use WhatsApp and Google Photos as an Apple exclusive solution just won’t cut it in most circumstances.
 
Careful, don’t make overreaching statements over what services ”we” (as iPhone users, I assume) use. Over here in Europe also iPhone users are likely to use WhatsApp and Google Photos as an Apple exclusive solution just won’t cut it in most circumstances.
Exactly right, its mainly in the USA where Apple users work strictly within the walled garden, in Australia Apple users actually uses services such as whatapp.
 
Isn’t it interesting that Apple users have all these third party services available to us and yet we still choose the walled garden version over the third party version? Besides, I don’t trust google. They don’t produce a product, you ARE their product. I’ll just continue paying my Apple tax....

Oh, and once again....AIRPODS... The best things ever created in the history of the universe.

Maybe this is true if you are in the walled country (aka US) :)
But most other iphone users in world use things like Whatsapp, WeChat, google photos, gmail, youtube, google map. They have long abandoned apple services/walled garden. To them apple stuff are just bloatware (which is taking up valuable space)
 
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Your response just shows why Apple are such a successful company. Some serious Marketing and Strategy genius going on at Cupertino. Im not going to argue with you over which services pound for pound are better as its a pointless exercise when someone has been caught in the Apple Eco system like you have. It clouds your judgement and leads to pure bias.

Oh and Airpods are not even the best wireless headphones avaliable let alone wired. ;)
Or maybe Apple just makes great products that people like? It’s so silly to say someone’s judgement is clouded because they prefer an OS/Ecosystem.

The glory of AirPods isn’t all about the sound (which is amazing), it’s about how well they work and how easily they pair. Do your Bluetooth headphones know when they’re in your ear and automatically pause the song when you take them out? When your Android is ringing, can you quickly take your earbuds out of their case, tap the right one twice and answer the phone call before the person on the other end hangs up or is sent to voicemail? No, you can’t.
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Maybe this is true if you are in the walled country (aka US) :)
But most other iphone users in world use things like Whatsapp, WeChat, google photos, gmail, youtube, google map. They have long abandoned apple services/walled garden. To them apple stuff are just bloatware (which is taking up valuable space)
Lol ok. I’ll believe it when it reflects in the stock price. In the meantime they’re on track to becoming a trillion dollar company.
 
Or maybe Apple just makes great products that people like? It’s so silly to say someone’s judgement is crowded because they prefer an OS/Ecosystem.

Well thats just the thing, Apple don't make the best products pound for pound. Its the Eco system of decent yet overpriced products that makes them so successful. Even if someone like Google makes a FAR superior service you as an Apple user are not going to use it and thats is what makes Apple successful. Its also why i say your judgement is clouded, you would never admit if other companies made a better product because in your eyes Apple can do no wrong.
 
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Careful, don’t make overreaching statements over what services ”we” (as iPhone users, I assume) use. Over here in Europe also iPhone users are likely to use WhatsApp and Google Photos as an Apple exclusive solution just won’t cut it in most circumstances.
That’s because you’re forced to, you live in an Android society. I don’t know a lot of people here in Southern California that use Android.

Also, it’s not a walled garden if everything is available to us and yet most iPhone users still use the built in services as opposed to third party.
 
The glory of AirPods isn’t all about the sound (which is amazing), it’s about how well they work and how easily they pair. Do your Bluetooth headphones know when they’re in your ear and automatically pause the song when you take them out? When your Android is ringing, can you quickly take your earbuds out of their case, tap the right one twice and answer the phone call before the person on the other end hangs up or is sent to voicemail? No, you can’t.

Two piece BT like Airpods is just not practical. I dont want them in my ears all day - only when I listen to music or take calls. If I take them off, I have to becareful not to lose them. Unlike the "typical" BT headset which I can clip on my clothing and use the earpiece as and when I want without hassle like the airpods.
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That’s because you’re forced to, you live in an Android society. I don’t know a lot of people here in Southern California that use Android.

Also, it’s not a walled garden if everything is available to us and yet most iPhone users still use the built in services as opposed to third party.

It is a walled garden when you can't communicate with people that are not using iphone. Maybe where you live is an iphone ghetto. Once you get out of your ghetto, you will find the apple services just cannot make it.

Lol ok. I’ll believe it when it reflects in the stock price. In the meantime they’re on track to becoming a trillion dollar company.

All I see is a company that locks its users and continue to cream off them. Apple makes 1/2 its profit from US. This is achieved with tie-up with telcos which masked the actual cost subscribers need to pay. Plus throw in certain preferential and anti-competitive measures and of course the walled garden. Many took pride in feeding this apple gravy train not knowing that there are many competitive alternatives available at much lower cost. Of course, it is your money so it is ok for you to want to continue to feed that gravy train but it is mind boggling to say iphone is good value for money (wrt functionality on offer).
 
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Two piece BT like Airpods is just not practical. I dont want them in my ears all day - only when I listen to music or take calls. If I take them off, I have to becareful not to lose them. Unlike the "typical" BT headset which I can clip on my clothing and use the earpiece as and when I want without hassle like the airpods.
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It is a walled garden when you can't communicate with people that are not using iphone. Maybe where you live is an iphone ghetto. Once you get out of your ghetto, you will find the apple services just cannot make it.
Lol, if you think that any part of the AirPod experience is a “hassle” then you’re beyond reasoning. Enjoy your “free” services and having all your data sold to the highest bidder. I’ll stay in the “ghetto” :D

And who said you can’t communicate with people who don’t have iPhones? Where did you get that from?
 
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One thing to remember, WhatsApp is owned by Facebook. Assuming it's an option, I'm a bit more comfortable using iMessage rather than WhatsApp. Besides, I can use iMessage with SMS forwarding on multiple iPhones and iPads (and I actually do use the iPad more than the iPhone so that's an important feature). Last I checked, there's no official WhatsApp client for the iPad.

To be honest though, none of my frequent contacts use WhatsApp. I have it installed but barely anyone in my circle actively uses it.
 
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Lol, if you think that any part of the AirPod experience is a “hassle” then you’re beyond reasoning. Enjoy your “free” services and having all your data sold to the highest bidder. I’ll stay in the “ghetto” :D

And who said you can’t communicate with people who don’t have iPhones? Where did you get that from?
Thats fine just remember this all started because you said only Apple had a photo sharing feature and thats why you could never leave Apple acting like Android users are missing out on something. I then showed you that Google also has this feature and im not paying the Apple tax to use it :)
 
Lol, if you think that any part of the AirPod experience is a “hassle” then you’re beyond reasoning. Enjoy your “free” services and having all your data sold to the highest bidder. I’ll stay in the “ghetto” :D

And who said you can’t communicate with people who don’t have iPhones? Where did you get that from?

Go do Facetime with an non-apple users :p
 
Go do Facetime with an non-apple users :p
Having built-in FaceTime support on an iOS device does not prevent installing Skype or other video calling apps on the iPhone/iPad/iPt. It just means for the non-technically inclined, video calling between iOS to iOS is made easier. And yes, I've got aunts and grandmas who can use FaceTime but not Skype (even when someone else has already installed and set up Skype for them).
 
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Sure. I have exactly opposite of experience. iPhone 6S slowing down, apps are crashing without reasons. While I am using my 300 dollars Android phone without problem
So... you are comparing your situation to mine? Really? You are trying to compare your 2015 flagship phone having problems to my 2018 flagship phone having problems??? The Galaxy S9+ just came out. There is no reason it should be having any problems.
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iOS is a lot smoother than a Samsung phone with BloatWiz. I think BloatWiz is a huge chunk of the problem, as even a relatively cheap Android phone like the Moto G6 is pretty smooth. Not quite iPhone smooth, but pretty good. The apps, however, do look better on iOS, I think companies just care more about their apps on iOS because iOS users have higher expectations and Apple is more strict about the look and feel of apps.



What carrier? With T-Mobile or AT&T, you'd lose LTE bands, even on Verizon you lose 4x4 MIMO.

It was the T-Mobile version. I am on JoD. Already jumped back to an iPhone 8. I'll be able to jump again in September to the 2018 iPhone.
 
Having built-in FaceTime support on an iOS device does not prevent installing Skype or other video calling apps on the iPhone/iPad/iPt. It just means for the non-technically inclined, video calling between iOS to iOS is made easier. And yes, I've got aunts and grandmas who can use FaceTime but not Skype (even when someone else has already installed and set up Skype for them).

Well, you just confirmed that Apple apps cannot make it in the bigger non walled garden world :)

That's why many outside the walled garden (including many iPhone users) are using something like WhatsApp which can do everything Imessage/FaceTime can and more without exclusions.

That's why it just doesn't make sense to defend a restricted app like Imessage/FaceTime.

And most apps like WhatsApp requires no setup except installing it. In many countries WhatsApp is already preinstalled. And the excuse that this is "difficult" for iPhone users to use is just an excuse (or if not then it just reflects poorly on those iPhone users for being dumb at something so simple)
 
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Careful, don’t make overreaching statements over what services ”we” (as iPhone users, I assume) use. Over here in Europe also iPhone users are likely to use WhatsApp and Google Photos as an Apple exclusive solution just won’t cut it in most circumstances.
I use what’s app exclusively and use both iCloud Photo Library and google photos. I use Apple’s stock mail app and safari because they work well enough for me.

On android I use Samsung’s stock mail app and their web browser.

I only tend to try third party apps if I find the stock apps lacking. I’m aware that there are better third party mail and web browsers out there but for the most part Apple and Samsung’s stock offerings suit my needs.
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Or maybe Apple just makes great products that people like? It’s so silly to say someone’s judgement is clouded because they prefer an OS/Ecosystem.

The glory of AirPods isn’t all about the sound (which is amazing), it’s about how well they work and how easily they pair. Do your Bluetooth headphones know when they’re in your ear and automatically pause the song when you take them out? When your Android is ringing, can you quickly take your earbuds out of their case, tap the right one twice and answer the phone call before the person on the other end hangs up or is sent to voicemail? No, you can’t.
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Lol ok. I’ll believe it when it reflects in the stock price. In the meantime they’re on track to becoming a trillion dollar company.
Maybe the pixel buds can pair with the pixel phone quickly? I don’t really know. I find the sound quality on the airpods to be fairly good but there are wireless earbuds with much better sound quality. None of them have the W1 chip though. I like the airpods a lot but don’t think they are like some magical device.

I’ve only ever used Apple maps once, when it first came out just to see if it worked. It did but I always use google maps because Google maps just work so I see no point in using another service which might be adequate but isn’t as good as google maps.
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Well thats just the thing, Apple don't make the best products pound for pound. Its the Eco system of decent yet overpriced products that makes them so successful. Even if someone like Google makes a FAR superior service you as an Apple user are not going to use it and thats is what makes Apple successful. Its also why i say your judgement is clouded, you would never admit if other companies made a better product because in your eyes Apple can do no wrong.


Products in apple’s ecosystem

Phones: Android phones have better hardware

Tablets: iPads

Computers: You can get better speced PC’s for the price. Macs probably still have the edge in terms of build quality and security, although there are some well built windows laptops now.

TV streaming box: There are better boxes out there other than the Apple TV

Watches: The Apple Watch is the best watch on the market imo in terms of support and features.

Smart speakers: The google Home and echo burry the HomePod. You can’t even use the HomePod unless you own an Apple device and it’s just not in the same league as the echo or google Home.

My opinion of course. But Apple doesn’t win in all catagories. I think on the whole their devices work better together but that’s how they were designed. They are made by the same company. Android /windows have so many different manufacturers that it’s diffuclt to get the same level of integration.
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That’s because you’re forced to, you live in an Android society. I don’t know a lot of people here in Southern California that use Android.

Also, it’s not a walled garden if everything is available to us and yet most iPhone users still use the built in services as opposed to third party.
I think people in developed countries pick their own ecosystem because we have the money to buy whatever tech we feel is best for us. I have a lot of Apple products (iPhone, 2 iPads, Apple Watch, MacBook, Apple TV, HomePod, airpods) also have a Samsung phone, google Home, chromecast, echo dot and fire TV stick. I choose to have those devices. I’m not forced into using any companies products.
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Well, you just confirmed that Apple apps cannot make it in the bigger non walled garden world :)

That's why many outside the walled garden (including many iPhone users) are using something like WhatsApp which can do everything Imessage/FaceTime can and more without exclusions.

That's why it just doesn't make sense to defend a restricted app like Imessage/FaceTime.

And most apps like WhatsApp requires no setup except installing it. In many countries WhatsApp is already preinstalled. And the excuse that this is "difficult" for iPhone users to use is just an excuse (or if not then it just reflects poorly on those iPhone users for being dumb at something so simple)
I think anyone can be shown how to use Skype or what’s app or any alternative app. If they can use FaceTime/iMessage then it’s not a stretch to use another app. However when everyone in your circle uses iPhones or Apple devices there just isn’t any incentive to use third party apps.
 
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The glory of AirPods isn’t all about the sound (which is amazing), it’s about how well they work and how easily they pair. Do your Bluetooth headphones know when they’re in your ear and automatically pause the song when you take them out? When your Android is ringing, can you quickly take your earbuds out of their case, tap the right one twice and answer the phone call before the person on the other end hangs up or is sent to voicemail? No, you can’t.

I have AirPods and I like them, but they’re not perfect. The pairing isn’t always flawless as occasionally I get only the other AirPod activated and it takes some juggling to restore stereo output. With my other Bluetooth headphones both channels either work or they don’t, there’s no in-between state there.

The automatic pause when you take one AirPod off is nice with music and podcasts, but it drives me up the wall when trying to watch a sports stream on my iPad. I’d like to occasionally pop out one or both AirPods to talk to my family while still keeping an eye on the game (having the play-by-play announcements all the time isn’t that crucial), but that’s not possible as also the stream pauses when I take an AirPod off.

And when my phone rings (be it my iPhone or S8+) and I’m not wearing Bluetooth headphones already, I’ll simply answer the phone rather than trying to pull any additional stunts and hoping nothing fails with the headset (including AirPods).
 
I have AirPods and I like them, but they’re not perfect. The pairing isn’t always flawless as occasionally I get only the other AirPod activated and it takes some juggling to restore stereo output. With my other Bluetooth headphones both channels either work or they don’t, there’s no in-between state there.

The automatic pause when you take one AirPod off is nice with music and podcasts, but it drives me up the wall when trying to watch a sports stream on my iPad. I’d like to occasionally pop out one or both AirPods to talk to my family while still keeping an eye on the game (having the play-by-play announcements all the time isn’t that crucial), but that’s not possible as also the stream pauses when I take an AirPod off.

And when my phone rings (be it my iPhone or S8+) and I’m not wearing Bluetooth headphones already, I’ll simply answer the phone rather than trying to pull any additional stunts and hoping nothing fails with the headset (including AirPods).
I know I wouldn’t go through the hassle of pulling out the airpods if I wasn’t already wearing them and they usually pair to the last device they were used with which isn’t always my iPhone.

And I can answer my phone with any Bluetooth headset I’m wearing.

Also my airpods can get confused if they are connected to say my iPad. If I’m watching a video and take an airpod out it pauses but when I put it back in it can start paying music. So they are not perfect.
 
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Well, you just confirmed that Apple apps cannot make it in the bigger non walled garden world :)

That's why many outside the walled garden (including many iPhone users) are using something like WhatsApp which can do everything Imessage/FaceTime can and more without exclusions.

That's why it just doesn't make sense to defend a restricted app like Imessage/FaceTime.
iMessage and FaceTime both work on my iPad. WhatsApp doesn't. Given I use the iPad for 80-90% of the time (definitely more than my phone), that's actually a pretty significant factor for me which makes WhatsApp a non-option (thankfully, none of my contacts actually use it). I have WhatsApp installed on my phone but primarily use iMessage, SMS (with iOS Continuity/forwarding) and occasionally Viber and Facebook Messenger (which are multi-platform) for messaging.

I'm sure those who are all-in with Apple appreciate having iMessage and FaceTime on their Macs as well but I prefer Windows 7 (granted, having to switch to Windows 10 has me testing various Linux distros).

And most apps like WhatsApp requires no setup except installing it. In many countries WhatsApp is already preinstalled. And the excuse that this is "difficult" for iPhone users to use is just an excuse (or if not then it just reflects poorly on those iPhone users for being dumb at something so simple)
I've found proficiency with technology isn't an indicator of a person's intelligence. They may simply not be interested in technology except as a tool to get things done and would rather opt for whatever's easiest.

Apple doesn't lock in their users. An iPhone owner is free to use iMessage, Google Hangouts, WhatsApp, etc. or even to switch to Android if they want. If someone continues to use Apple's products and services, that means they're happy or at least mostly content with what Apple's offering compared to the competition.
 
Thats fine just remember this all started because you said only Apple had a photo sharing feature and thats why you could never leave Apple acting like Android users are missing out on something. I then showed you that Google also has this feature and im not paying the Apple tax to use it :)

But you are paying the Google tax... I’d personally rather pay the Apple tax than the Google tax. I don’t trust Google or their business practices.
 
But you are paying the Google tax... I’d personally rather pay the Apple tax than the Google tax. I don’t trust Google or their business practices.
I don't think you understand what i mean by Apple tax...... Apple are the ones with huge markups on their hardware, not Google.

People trust Apple way to much, if you think they are not doing anything untoward with your data you are mistaken. Apple cover things up, at least Google is fairly transparent with what they are doing. I trust Google way more then Apple, just look at the whole iPhone 6 Battery fiasco, Apple tried to cover it up and people were upgrading their phones when all they needed was a new battery to restore performance. Really trustworthy right lol
 
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