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according to the spec sheet, the CPU used in the low-end model only supports 16 GB of LPDDR3 RAM max.
the limit would be 32 GB if Apple would have used DDR4/-RS RAM (which would be bad for battery life, I assume).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...obile-u-y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.pdf
A couple of things:
  1. I doubt anyone would be concerned if it was just the low end model which was limited to 16GB of RAM. However that's not the case. The top of the line model is also limited to 16GB of RAM.
  2. If I am reading your explanation correctly even the low end model could support 32GB of RAM had Apple chosen to use DDR4 instead of DDR3.
The 16GB RAM limitation looks to fall squarely on Apple.
 
according to the spec sheet, the CPU used in the low-end model only supports 16 GB of LPDDR3 RAM max.
the limit would be 32 GB if Apple would have used DDR4/-RS RAM (which would be bad for battery life, I assume).

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...obile-u-y-processor-lines-datasheet-vol-1.pdf

Maybe but DDR3 runs at 1.5V, LPDDR3 runs at 1.2V. Any guess what DDR4 runs at....... the magic 1.2V.
Now i am not an electronics expert but i guess thats the deciding number here. As you said it seems the processor allows 32Gb of DDR4 RAM which begs the question of for the 15" MacBook Pro why didn't they use that?

Once again apologies for taking this off topic, but I do think conversations like this are somewhere related to the Mac Pro as it shows the overall commitment to its Pro line.
 
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Maybe but DDR3 runs at 1.5V, LPDDR3 runs at 1.2V. Any guess what DDR4 runs at....... the magic 1.2V.
Now i am not an electronics expert but i guess thats the deciding number here. As you said it seems the processor allows 32Gb of DDR4 RAM which begs the question of for the 15" MacBook Pro why didn't they use that?

Once again apologies for taking this off topic, but I do think conversations like this are somewhere related to the Mac Pro as it shows the overall commitment to its Pro line.
I find it a little ironic the new MacBook Pro can be configured with a 2TB SSD drive yet the Mac Pro is stuck at 1TB. Come on Apple...you could at least offer a 2TB SSD option on the Mac Pro.
 
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Maybe but DDR3 runs at 1.5V, LPDDR3 runs at 1.2V. Any guess what DDR4 runs at....... the magic 1.2V.
Now i am not an electronics expert but i guess thats the deciding number here.

no, voltage tells us nothing. what counts is how many watts will be consumed per memory module.
 
As you said it seems the processor allows 32Gb of DDR4 RAM which begs the question of for the 15" MacBook Pro why didn't they use that?

Once again apologies for taking this off topic, but I do think conversations like this are somewhere related to the Mac Pro as it shows the overall commitment to its Pro line.
LPDDR3 which is specially designed for LOW POWER, hence the LP.
DDR4 uses significantly more power.

Exactly what the real-world energy savings difference is can only be determined in a lab, but all of the laptops that I've seen that use DDR4 and can be expanded to 32GB of RAM are heavier or have less battery life than the 2016 MBP.

Of course Apple's choice to favor thin and light over 32GB capacity was exactly that - Apple's choice.

From Apple's perspective, it seems to make sense in that their RAM is non-expandable in their laptop line (again, Apple's choice) and those ordering 32GB capacity are going to be less than 5% of buyers, and in their opinion, that's not worth sacrificing weight and battery life for the other 95% of users who don't need 32GB, and Apple obviously doesn't think the design, manufacturing and support costs of a separate logic board design that uses DDR4 are worth it.

With SSD performance being so fast, Apple feels that can mitigate to some degree the 16GB RAM limitations for some workflows.

I know this will just fall on deaf ears as everyone just wants to dog pile on Apple these days. While I of course would have no objection to Apple expanding their product range, they have concluded that the market is ridiculously small for them, considering that 90% of buyers in that niche market are going to purchase Windows laptops regardless of what Apple offers.

The "pro" nomenclature that folks around here continue to get so hung up on is just really bizarre. The name of a product doesn't magically make something "pro" or not.
 
LPDDR3 which is specially designed for LOW POWER, hence the LP.
DDR4 uses significantly more power.

Exactly what the real-world energy savings difference is can only be determined in a lab, but all of the laptops that I've seen that use DDR4 and can be expanded to 32GB of RAM are heavier or have less battery life than the 2016 MBP.

Of course Apple's choice to favor thin and light over 32GB capacity was exactly that - Apple's choice.

From Apple's perspective, it seems to make sense in that their RAM is non-expandable in their laptop line (again, Apple's choice) and those ordering 32GB capacity are going to be less than 5% of buyers, and in their opinion, that's not worth sacrificing weight and battery life for the other 95% of users who don't need 32GB, and Apple obviously doesn't think the design, manufacturing and support costs of a separate logic board design that uses DDR4 are worth it.

With SSD performance being so fast, Apple feels that can mitigate to some degree the 16GB RAM limitations for some workflows.

I know this will just fall on deaf ears as everyone just wants to dog pile on Apple these days. While I of course would have no objection to Apple expanding their product range, they have concluded that the market is ridiculously small for them, considering that 90% of buyers in that niche market are going to purchase Windows laptops regardless of what Apple offers.

The "pro" nomenclature that folks around here continue to get so hung up on is just really bizarre. The name of a product doesn't magically make something "pro" or not.

I agree with your statement about those that would go to Windows. The reason (in my estimates) is how Apple itself embraces the market. We already have seen Apple elect not to engage the gamers slice of the pie in a meaningful way and also give a piss poor nod to professionals these days. The former is a rather large market but might force Apple to play with other companies in a way Apple doesn't like - namely, less control. As for the professionals, I fully disagree with Apple's latest mindset as part simple economics goes - if they are buying your product then it is that many dollars less in the coffers of a competitor. Overall, Apple believes it can generate markets rather than engage demand. Once they create a customer base, they keep squeezing dollars out of them every 2-5 years.
 
I see Apples business model as mass market and services. A new Mac Pro does not fit in to either one. I would not as a professional rely on Apple for the future of my profession if you require workstation capabilities. Professionals and businesses rely on future road-maps in order to stay competitive. Just my opinion.
 
95% of threads in Mac forums across the globe have turned into howling renditions of the duet from Chess.

 
Apple Engineer: "Hey, we could put 32 gigs of ram in here, but the battery life might be the same as the last model, and we have to keep the case size the same as the last model or maybe only reduce it by 1mm."

Apple Marketing: "No way. It absolutely must be much thinner than the last one, and the battery life has to be more important than ram. Besides, who uses 32 gigs of ram anyway?"

Form over function. But hey, its thinner!

does anybody have a real world usage case showing them pegging 16GB ram and needing more?

idk, not saying it doesn't happen.. more curious about what the software & exact usages are that bring it over 16GB.
 
does anybody have a real world usage case showing them pegging 16GB ram and needing more?

idk, not saying it doesn't happen.. more curious about what the software & exact usages are that bring it over 16GB.
How about over 100 GiB in use on a Dell that's basically an MP6,1 hex core?

mem.jpg


How out of touch are you if you think that 16 GiB is acceptable in 2016?

Wait, since you're asking this in the context of a laptop, I should do a screen grab from my ThinkPad:

mem2.jpg


32 GiB laptop, 50 MiB free.
 
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does anybody have a real world usage case showing them pegging 16GB ram and needing more?

idk, not saying it doesn't happen.. more curious about what the software & exact usages are that bring it over 16GB.

Just about any Adobe app comes to mind, especially Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, at least for Post Production.

I regularly use all 64 gigs I have in my 5,1 Mac Pro.
 
How about over 100 GiB in use on a Dell that's basically an MP6,1 hex core?

How out of touch are you if you think that 16 GiB is acceptable in 2016?

Wait, since you're asking this in the context of a laptop, I should do a screen grab from my ThinkPad:

32 GiB laptop, 50 MiB free.
i asked about the software and specific usages though..


Just about any Adobe app comes to mind, especially Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, at least for Post Production.

I regularly use all 64 gigs I have in my 5,1 Mac Pro.

doing what though, exactly? and to what effect if you had less than 64GB ram?
 
Why? So you can tell people they really don't need to do what they're doing?


Like this. All you need to know is there are people who want / need more than 16GB of RAM.
why? because i feel like there's a hugely disproportionate amount of complaints re:Ram (et.al) compared to actual (pro) usage cases of people using huge amounts of ram.

that's why.

and hey, if you can't answer questions like these to a casual internet forum member, you should most definitely not expect apple to listen to your gripes either.. because they're going to want to know these answers as well.. and truth be told, they already know these answers.. they likely know more about your computer usage/requirements then even you yourself does.
 
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why? because i feel like there's a hugely disproportionate amount of complaints re:Ram compared to actual (pro) usage cases of people using huge amounts of ram.

that's why.
You were already provided the information you requested. If you can't accept the examples given, Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, can and do use more than 16GB of RAM it's my opinion you never will no matter the explanation.

Having said that why do you think the Mac Pro supports up to 64GB of memory if no one needs more than 16GB?

and hey, if you can't answer questions like these to a casual internet forum member, you should most definitely not expect apple to listen to your gripes either.. because they're going to want to know these answers as well.. and truth be told, they already know these answers.. they likely know more about your computer usage/requirements then even you yourself does.
Oh but people have answered your question. You just refuse to accept their answers.
 
You were already provided the information you requested. If you can't accept the examples given, Photoshop, Premiere, and After Effects, can and do use more than 16GB of RAM it's my opinion you never will no matter the explanation.
if i look at the latest adobe ram requirements with those applications, it's:
• photoshop: 2GB required -- 8GB recommended
• premier: 8GB required -- 16GB recommended
• after effects: 4GB required -- 8GB recommended

why aren't they recommending 32GB or 64GB if that's what's going to run their software in an optimal fashion?

and who is better to listen to.. the developers of the software? or some randoms on the internetz?

Having said that why do you think the Mac Pro supports up to 64GB of memory if no one needs more than 16GB?
i never said that. :rolleyes:
you just wish i did or need to try to skew it into me as saying that for whatever reasons.


Oh but people have answered your question. You just refuse to accept their answers.
huh? this has definitely not been answered:
"does anybody have a real world usage case showing them pegging 16GB ram and needing more?"

 
if i look at the latest adobe ram requirements with those applications, it's:
• photoshop: 2GB required -- 8GB recommended
• premier: 8GB required -- 16GB recommended
• after effects: 4GB required -- 8GB recommended

why aren't they recommending 32GB or 64GB if that's what's going to run their software in an optimal fashion?

and who is better to listen to.. the developers of the software? or some randoms on the internetz?
I think the people who are using the programs. Apple recommends 2GB of RAM to run macOS Sierra. Does that mean there is no need for anything above 2GB? Certainly not...what the user does with their system will determine the requirements. Not some vendor.

i never said that. :rolleyes:
you just wish i did or need to try to skew it into me as saying that for whatever reasons.
It's the only logical conclusion one can draw from your demand people justify the need for more than 16GB. If you feel this is not the case then why are you asking people for examples of memory usage beyond 16GB?

huh? this has definitely not been answered:
"does anybody have a real world usage case showing them pegging 16GB ram and needing more?"
Yes, it has. Which bring us back to: You just refuse to accept their answers.
 
I think the people who are using the programs. Apple recommends 2GB of RAM to run macOS Sierra. Does that mean there is no need for anything above 2GB? Certainly not...what the user does with their system will determine the requirements. Not some vendor.
they don't recommend 2GB.. they require 2GB.. there's a difference.


It's the only logical conclusion one can draw from your demand people justify the need for more than 16GB. If you feel this is not the case then why are you asking people for examples of memory usage beyond 16GB?

it's because i don't believe most people saying they need some crazy spec'd computer to do their pro work.
realistically, i know most people are basically lying about their system requirements as some form of boasting.
if you really want to impress people with your computering skillz, show them your awesome work you've been creating on the computers instead of inflating spec requirements you claim to need.

you're only kidding yourself with the spec boasting and apple, thankfully, is not going to listen to you.. if they did and started making computers based off this forum's typical user "needs" instead of real world working pro's needs then i'm pretty sure i'd be seeking alternative vendors.
 
they don't recommend 2GB.. they require 2GB.. there's a difference.
OK...what is their recommended memory requirement?

it's because i don't believe most people saying they need some crazy spec'd computer to do their pro work.
Which brings us back to my original question: Why do you think the Mac Pro supports up to 64GB of memory if no one needs some crazy spec'd computer to do their pro work?

realistically, i know most people are basically lying about their system requirements as some form of boasting.
Which brings us back to my original question / statement:

Why? So you can tell people they really don't need to do what they're doing?

Yep, flatfive knows better than those who are asking for it.

if you really want to impress people with your computering skillz, show them your awesome work you've been creating on the computers instead of inflating spec requirements you claim to need.

you're only kidding yourself with the spec boasting and apple, thankfully, is not going to listen to you.. if they did and started making computers based off this forum's typical user "needs" instead of real world working pro's needs then i'm pretty sure i'd be seeking alternative vendors.
Let me answer your question: People want more than 16GB of RAM to do the same things they do on the Mac Pro which requires more than 16GB of RAM. Happy?
 
Why? So you can tell people they really don't need to do what they're doing?
not necessarily.
more like -- "if you're looking to improve productivity, let's talk about anything other than hardware specs because narrowing in on hardware is barking up the wrong tree and leads to unproductive discussion" *

*see : this discussion for example.

Yep, flatfive knows better than those who are asking for it.
well.. maybe.
as crazy as that may sound to some of you all or as hard as it might be to accept, it's still a possibility.
 
not necessarily.
more like -- "if you're looking to improve productivity, let's talk about anything other than hardware specs because narrowing in on hardware is barking up the wrong tree and leads to unproductive discussion" *

*see : this discussion for example.

Don't you love being an ideal Apple customer. I guess this would be one of the reasons how Apple could get away with locking down memory capacity on Macs.
 
Don't you love being an ideal Apple customer. I guess this would be one of the reasons how Apple could get away with locking down memory capacity on Macs.

i don't know if i 'love' being an ideal apple customer but, i use apple computers because they're built the way i want them to be..

i don't think they're necessarily getting away with anything.. this all falls back to the most simple of manufacturer/consumer relationships.. if you don't like the product or can't use the product then don't freaking buy it.
i'm baffled how you twist this into 'apple getting away with...."
 
not necessarily.
more like -- "if you're looking to improve productivity, let's talk about anything other than hardware specs because narrowing in on hardware is barking up the wrong tree and leads to unproductive discussion" *

*see : this discussion for example.


well.. maybe.
as crazy as that may sound to some of you all or as hard as it might be to accept, it's still a possibility.
Yep...flat "nobody needs more than 640KB" five knows better.

Now what about all those other points I mentioned?
[doublepost=1478474456][/doublepost]
i don't know if i 'love' being an ideal apple customer but, i use apple computers because they're built the way i want them to be..

i don't think they're necessarily getting away with anything.. this all falls back to the most simple of manufacturer/consumer relationships.. if you don't like the product or can't use the product then don't freaking buy it.
i'm baffled how you twist this into 'apple getting away with...."
This we agree on. That doesn't, or at least shouldn't, exclude people from voicing their dissatisfaction with them.
 
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