Google, European Telecoms Giants Call on EU to Force Open iMessage

[spinedoc77]

I believe Google (maker of Android OS) and the big telcos that use android on their phones want to be able to have interoperability with imessage so users of imessage and android messenger can seamlessly text one another but they cannot because Apple will not allow it. If Android and iphones users want to seamlessly text one another both need to install another text app that works across both platforms.

I believe there are settings that one can change in Android to get it to work properly with imessage but that defeats the whole issue of having both phones OS seamlessly working together.

Users of android phones should not have to mess around with having to install 3rd party apps or make phone setting changes to get it to work with imessage but Apple's refusal to allow both messaging platforms to work together is what is causing the problem.

If the telcos really wanted this then they would have just adopted RCS, it was already set and ready to go but because they could not figure out how to make revenue off of it they let it die. If the telcos adopted it then Apple would have no choice but to support it. Note we're not talking about the same RCS as Google's proprietary fork. All of this squawking and you know who we do NOT hear complaining? Telcos. The blame, IMO, falls back on telcos and even more specifically on the regulatory bodies which didn't force them into adopting a new and better standard.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple should tell everyone else to go pound sand.

 

[CarAnalogy]

You do know hangouts talk and duo all still exist and all Google been doing is collapsing them down into single services.

Google chat and meet covers all of it. My guess is they kept improving protocols and setup forcing migrations and shutting down things but end of the day they still exist with a different name.

That's just not true. I was there. Yeah maybe some of the back end stuff is the same but it was not at all transparent to users. They slowly tortured Hangouts to death. They straight up discontinued Duo. Each time it required the person on the other end to completely change apps, and that's what matters. After the second time of dragging my friends and family along to a messenger that Google then killed, I swore off Google messaging forever. Only email and I'm trying hard to get completely away from that too.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Apple should tell everyone else to go pound sand.

Apple is perhaps the best company in the world at very pointedly saying nothing at all.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Apple is perhaps the best company in the world at very pointedly saying nothing at all.

That is true. However, sometimes the lion needs to roar to remind those around he means business.

 

[CarAnalogy]

That is true. However, sometimes the lion needs to roar to remind those around he means business.

Not sure they're actually great at that. More like just doing what they want anyway and maybe giving some excuse if they feel bothered (like the recent remark about 8GB of RAM somehow being equivalent to 16GB.)

In this case I'm not sure Apple cares enough. Worst and least likely case a court eventually (after years of appeals) finally orders them to release iMessage for Android. Best case, nothing changes at all. Really it's win/win for them.

 

[robbietop]

Dear EU,

We are incapable of designing our own proprietary messaging platform and keeping it running for more than 5 years before canceling it for some other stupid moonshot our capricious mongrel Millennial coders do in their spare time.

Even though we are a $2 Trillion USD company.....

So, we wanna force our competition to open up their proprietary platform so we can flood it with more advertising featuring penis pills and other useless **** nobody actually clicks on.

We understand Facebook has Messenger and WhatsApp, which are more widely used and are the same monopolistic practices as Apple's iMessage but we conveniently left those out because we are merely just bullying Apple because we're losing the war against the relentless A and M series chips that are about to drown Intel and AMD before they cause Qualcomm a serious threat to their SnapDragon line....and if that's not scary enough it's an existential threat to our Goolge Tensor chips that power our dangerously small market share Pixel phones.

But yes, let's cause a big stupid argument about monopolies when Google basically pays tens of billions of dollars to make Google the default web browser on every device ever sold.

So, a bunch of nitpicking nerds will bitch and moan about how Apple holds a monopoly when Google does as well but I guess we have to argue over split hairs.

Sincerely, Google.

 

[lovehateapple]

I've been saying this for years, if apple were smart it would just pull out of the EU entirely. If it ever did this a huge black market for apple products would spring up overnight.

 

[rubaxter]

And once again the EU is trying to over regulate. All in the name of advocating for the "good" of consumers.

Note: I actually live in the EU

When your money bag donors won't innovate, they intend for you to legislate.

This is Road to Hell/Good Intentions stuff AT BEST.

 

[jlc1978]

Thank you for stating this!

I was about to respond to this because not every USB-C cable will work with everything, USB-C is a huge mess like HDMI and soon maybe messages will be too.

That's thing - people believed it would be one cable to rule them all while those of us who have dealt with standards know what it really means is "Why won't this work since it has the same plug?"

Message interoperability will literally kill off message competition and it really will come down to probably a duopoly. The current competition in message apps are features/abilities/security/availability, but if all of these things can be done no matter what then what incentive is there to develop another messaging app.

Exactly. No need to use anything else once it is built in.

Don't applaud Apple for hating on others, it's anti-consumer no matter how you look at it.

Creating your own product isn't hating on others, consumers have a choice on which product they want t use and its limitations/advantages.

Standards do ensure interoperability. But at least you only have to bring one cable for multiple devices. It is up to you whether you buy a good cable or not. It was the same for lightening cables as well.

Standards only ensure up to a point, and even the EU USB-C rule doesn't mean a cable that has a USB-C connector on both ends will work with your device; or if it does will offer full capabilities.

Since the iPhone 15...No more having to bring a cable for my iPhone and a separate one for my iPad. Now that the ports are standard it offers more interoperability and ease of use for consumers.

They are standard for Apple's implementation of the port; which means only cables designed for Apple's feature set (data, audio, power, etc.) will provide full compatibility.

That's the thing with standards - they set a minimum standard of performance and often all further proprietary implementations that still adhere to the standard.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

We should all be on the same messaging standard. This is just like the whole USB C issue.
Standards exist for a reason.....it ensures they support technical regulations, ensure interoperability. The whole tech world has standards for everything around software and technology. Messaging is no different. We should all be on the same standard.

SMS is the messaging standard everyone’s on. As long as you’re using that, there’s very few folks that can not receive that message. Just know that you or them may get charged for it.

 

[darngooddesign]

Standards do ensure interoperability. But at least you only have to bring one cable for multiple devices. It is up to you whether you buy a good cable or not. It was the same for lightening cables as well.
Since the iPhone 15...No more having to bring a cable for my iPhone and a separate one for my iPad. Now that the ports are standard it offers more interoperability and ease of use for consumers.

I still have to bring multiple cables because I don't want to wait to charge device 2 until my device 1 has charged. The fact that one is USBC and the other is Lightning is irrelevant.

 

[InvertedGoldfish]

You have to be pretty slow to not see this for what it is


They are trying to break into the encrypted messages

Between this and Apple Pay, governments are sure getting scared of their “subjects” lately

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Not always. The key part is messaging service and iMessage for example does not require the use of a phone number. For example I can use iMessage using only the account it is tied to that has no phone number tied to it. SMS is not a fall back in that case.

WhatsApp is the same way no phone number tied to it.

The phone that person is using DOES have a telephone number, though. They may not want to give it out and might actually PREFER someone use WhatsApp or iMessage, but it’s there. AND, if one were to obtain that number, they would be able to send a message to that number, AND that message would be received. (on iPhone, they can reject iMessage messages, but they can’t reject SMS)

 

[1129846]

The phone that person is using DOES have a telephone number, though. They may not want to give it out and might actually PREFER someone use WhatsApp or iMessage, but it’s there. AND, if one were to obtain that number, they would be able to send a message to that number, AND that message would be received. (on iPhone, they can reject iMessage messages, but they can’t reject SMS)

Not how it works. Some have a phone number but not everyone. There are plenty of iMessage users who lack a cell number. Plus gate kept, can not join a iMessage chat unless you have an Apple device. It is the massive walled garden. If apple said had an iMessage for Android they might have a better defense there but they do not.

Hence why you can not use the SMS argument as a fall back. Not everyone will have an cell phone that can take sms.

 

[tgwaste]

2024 will be a great year of openness for the Apple platform in the EU, but don’t worry, the US will follow…

Yep, If they don't give you your way have the government force them too. So great /s

 

[jamezr]

I still have to bring multiple cables because I don't want to wait to charge device 2 until my device 1 has charged. The fact that one is USBC and the other is Lightning is irrelevant.

It might be irrelevant to you.....but not to everyone else that see this a big win. We can use one cable type for multiple devices is a huge win for everyone.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Quit it with the RCS business. People persist in conflating carrier RCS with Google Messages, they’re two separate things.

RCS and Google Messages are, indeed, two separate things. “Google RCS” and Google Messages go hand in hand.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is what baffles me about the non US market.

WhatsApp was not always and forever owned by Facebook, they bought it. AFTER the original owners made it so gosh darned useful, of course.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Apple joins the conversation and help set the standards just like they did with USB-C, despite refusing to adopt it.

They adopted it one year after they told hardware vendors they would. They said Lightning would be the connector for 10 years in Sept 2012, meaning they’d switch from lightning after Sept 2022. And, right on schedule, they did. AND, they made sure that, by the end of that 10 years, there would be something acceptable to move to. With a massive number of peripherals of all types that supports it from day 1.

 

[AirunJae]

At the moment there's no easy way to resolve that though. Apple did want iMessage and FaceTime as widely-adopted standard but nobody joined so we have 10 competing platforms unfortunately. RCS is an answer, however only in theory. It's not supported by all carriers worldwide and many companies try to push their own implementation - potentially but often likely - compromising security and privacy (looking at you Google).

I would argue that friends and families use many different platforms but rarely utilize plain SMS so it's up for a discussion how much of a problem this is and if the market cannot resolve it on its own.

So I was curious about your claim that Apple tried to get others to join in on Messages/Facetime and did some digging. It sounds like they ran into a similar issue that Google did in getting RCS going, ie The Carriers. Seems like Apple and Google should team up and cooperate to address this predominately U.S.-centric issue. I won't hold my breath but maybe cross my fingers. I guess Google needs to add a little more money to the default search contract.

 

[TheOldChevy]

Can we get an end-to-end encrypted open-source system that would be an alternative to many current protocols. And then have it supported by all players in the market.

This would allow various providers to keep their own protocols with their own advantages (and play with the colour of the bubbles if they like) and let the majority of users to communicate securely with all others.

 

[DblHelix]

What if we don’t want RCS?

 

[jlc1978]

(on iPhone, they can reject iMessage messages, but they can’t reject SMS)

They can chose only to see messages from known senders, however. That's how I screen my messages. I don't know you, I don't see it.

Not how it works. Some have a phone number but not everyone. There are plenty of iMessage users who lack a cell number. Plus gate kept, can not join a iMessage chat unless you have an Apple device. It is the massive walled garden. If apple said had an iMessage for Android they might have a better defense there but they do not.

The assumption that compatibility is needed is one I disagree with, at least in the form of complete compatibility.

The issue I see is what defines compatibility, for example:

1. It means every feature that one system implements another must support. If Apple decides to support full display of Pro-Res RAW files, must everyone else or must Apple be prevented because it now adds an incompatibility?

2. If a 3rd party requires messages to their app be sent un-encrypted must all the other Gatekeepers now send unencrypted messages?

3. Must Gatekeepers open up transport and storage of messages to third party servers?

Until all that gets hashed out, the rule may cause more issues than the one it intends to fix.

Hence why you can not use the SMS argument as a fall back. Not everyone will have an cell phone that can take sms.

Getting texts is not a right either. If you want to choose a device that can.

 

[5232152]

They adopted it one year after they told hardware vendors they would. They said Lightning would be the connector for 10 years in Sept 2012, meaning they’d switch from lightning after Sept 2022. And, right on schedule, they did. AND, they made sure that, by the end of that 10 years, there would be something acceptable to move to.

8 years adoption + 5 years RnD is good enough for you?
I assume you don't work tech, lol.