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as we've seen, government has failed. And this is more evidence.
Meddle in corporations yet let people battle it out.
Enabling criminal activity over encrypted messages like Telegram, yet go after iMessage.
 
WhatsApp is owned by Meta. It will never live on my iPhone. The only real solution to this problem is for Apple to bring iMessage to Android. That gives users choice and security.

This is what baffles me about the non US market. I won't touch a Meta product with a 10 foot pole, locked down my Facebook account and maybe go on it once every few years to check on old contacts. Sold my Quest headset when they started to require your real information/Facebook integration (even though they sort of reversed this in the past year). I don't know if Apple is much better, but at least they have some sort of reputation for not harvesting every single iota of your life for profit.
 
Thank you for stating this!
Standards do not ensure interoperability. All the USB-C standard ensures is a single connector design, beyond that cables can be widely divergent.
I was about to respond to this because not every USB-C cable will work with everything, USB-C is a huge mess like HDMI and soon maybe messages will be too.

Message interoperability will literally kill off message competition and it really will come down to probably a duopoly. The current competition in message apps are features/abilities/security/availability, but if all of these things can be done no matter what then what incentive is there to develop another messaging app.
 
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I would be curious how a financial analysis would look comparing decreasing smartphone sales in general with increasing sales from subscriptions. Apple could just release iMessage as a monthly sub if you don't have an Apple device, I'd personally have no issue with $5-$10/month and Apple could even consider jacking it up higher than that over time. I have a feeling this would actually entice MORE consumers to buy an iPhone, especially if Apple withheld features from an iMessage app like stickers, tapbacks, facetime, etc. Apple would come out looking like the hero AND making money.

Personally all I want is to be able to send videos/pictures without the massive compression MMS entails, and to be able to properly be in a group chat. Maybe the EU and FCC should FORCE carriers to adopt a new standard like...hmm...like maybe RCS? (And I mean the original RCS which the carriers let languish and die, NOT the adulterated Google RCS which they push).

The bigger fear is Apple would do that stunt and say buy a new Apple device get X months of free iMessage for an account after that pay for it.

You don’t want Apple to go down that path as I would expect an iPhone for example might only get 1 year of free iMessaging then you have to pay for it.
 
iMessage in its current form can’t be made interoperable because it relies on a private key burned into every apple devices’ Secure Enclave during manufacturing to decrypt the incoming message. If you have an iPhone and iPad and someone sends you an iMessage you are actually getting 2 separate messages each encrypted with a different public key. This hardware specific feature is only found on apple silicon.

There is a solution to comply however:

(A) disable iMessage for all apple devices sold in the EU
(B) disable end to end encryption for iMessage for EU devices. All messages sent to devices sold in the region are plain text. Then install a gateway to forward messages from other messaging systems into/out of iMessage ecosystem.

You know what is the biggest impediment to communication interoperability in the EU? The plethora of languages! They need to mandate that everyone in the union speaks a single language! /s 😆

Or (C).
Apple joins the conversation and help set the standards just like they did with USB-C, despite refusing to adopt it.

Don't applaud Apple for hating on others, it's anti-consumer no matter how you look at it.
 
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This isn't going to give you blue bubbles. LOL

No one, outside of the dumber middle school kids, truly cares about the blue message crap. Give me an Android iMessage app, make me a green bubble I could care LESS. I just want to send videos/pictures that you can actually make out what they are from.
 
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The bigger fear is Apple would do that stunt and say buy a new Apple device get X months of free iMessage for an account after that pay for it.

You don’t want Apple to go down that path as I would expect an iPhone for example might only get 1 year of free iMessaging then you have to pay for it.

Yeah that's a legitimate concern, although I think it would be VERY difficult for Apple to force a subscription on Apple hardware users as it's been seen as a core service since the very beginning. I think Apple would keep it free because that's a big incentive to buy an Apple device.
 
Users have many messenger choices they can use on both Android and iOS. iMessage is just one option but nobody forces you to use it over Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Messenger, Element, SMS or any other platform to be honest. Apple as a company has decided not to open up iMessage fully to Android users to keep it as their USP and that makes complete sense. Users are not forced to use it and many don't (especially in Europe even if 2 people have iPhones, I can tell you that).

Google is trying to push their version of RCS so they can collect more user data and basically take one USP from Apple, as simple as that. They don't care about users.
Exactly. This is so ridiculous because like you said, there are plenty of other messaging apps available for iOS users. And if Google wants a messaging app that’s interoperable with their messaging system so bad, then why don’t they make one for iOS? Just make “Google Messages” or whatever, and have it as an available option? The stupid thing about all of this is that if Apple just provided a Messenger app with only basic text functionality, these people wouldn’t be up in arms over it, but because Apple decided to add some nice features for it’s users, now they should have to be interoperable with an arbitrary number of other messaging apps? The Messages app was designed to be a texting app first and foremost (who would buy a phone with no pre-installed texting or calling app?), with a few nice add-ons added over time. That brings up another problem with people’s arguments “bUt ApPlE pReFeReNcEs ThEiR oWn MeSsAgEs ApP bEcAuSe It’S pReLoAdEd…” What kind of phone would ship with no preloaded messaging app on it? Of course there will be some app that’s “preferenced” by being preloaded on a PHONE. That doesn’t mean it’s the only option… 🤦🏼‍♂️
 
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Or make Meta add SMS support to WhatsApp and Messenger and there's open texting. It's not like anyone's forced to use iMessage. Non-Apple users and Apple users can use Telegram, Signal, Line, Messenger, etc. If it were a monopoly Apple would be forcing iPhone users to only use iMessage.

Using 3rd party apps will NEVER be a solution IMO, it's just way too fragmented and difficult to get everyone on board. I have hundreds of contacts, family, friends, business associates, etc. To get them all to use the same exact messaging app, AND give them all my personal email are really not doable. I'd end up using half a dozen different messaging apps and always be confused which contact info I should give out. Lastly there is the issue of trust, I'm not really sure I want to trust Meta (as one example) with my privacy versus Apple.

Having an Android app neatly resolves a lot of these issues as Apple can still maintain control (assuming they aren't forced to open the app up which would scare Apple off real quick). I get that there is still an issue of where to fit RCS into all of this, not sure of that solution other than forcing carriers to go back to the non-Google RCS they abandoned because they couldn't figure out a revenue model around it.
 
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jlc1978 said
Standards do not ensure interoperability. All the USB-C standard ensures is a single connector design, beyond that cables can be widely divergent.
Standards do ensure interoperability. But at least you only have to bring one cable for multiple devices. It is up to you whether you buy a good cable or not. It was the same for lightening cables as well.
Since the iPhone 15...No more having to bring a cable for my iPhone and a separate one for my iPad. Now that the ports are standard it offers more interoperability and ease of use for consumers.
 
iMessage is one go the best features in iPhone in my opinion. It’s one of the reasons it would be very difficult to leave iPhone, because at least here in the US, and with my family and friends, they’re all in iPhone. If all my friends and family were in Android, it would make iMessage less appealing. I don’t understand what Google is doing here. Why can’t they design an Android messaging app similar to iMessage for Android users?
 
If they succeed in forcing Apple to open the iMessage standard, no application will be safe from overreach by bureaucrats.

When I see google involved in anything, I know privacy is at stake.
 
I really don’t understand this one. Nobody in the EU cares about iMessage, most people (by far) are on Whatsapp. Talk about a ‘gatekeeper’! On top of that, there are so many choices: Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, regular SMS, and then some. I use them all. Who cares about having to switch app now and then? How will opening up these messaging apps not result in a ‘lowest common denominator’ service? How will anybody ever innovate again by adding things if that would break cross service compatibility?

I’m stumped.🤔

Tell you what, I'll give you my list of contacts which are in the hundreds. You figure out which third party app all of my contacts should be using, then you need to convince them all to switch to just one app. Oh and make sure and let them know they can't use my phone number anymore, they have to use whatever email I have on that third party app. Just in case, if you can't get hundreds on the same app then make sure and figure out a way to parse out which contacts use which app/email address. Lastly remind me again why I should trust a company like Meta with my privacy?

Yeah, I'm also stumped.
 
I favor this because of the way Apple uses an accessibility-unfriendly green-on-white color for SMS messages in order to manipulate people into feeling differently about non-iMessage users. I realize they could still do that even if the Messages app becomes more interoperable, but it feels like a personal attack that makes me want to see the EU take a wrecking ball to Apple's plans.
 
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Wow, now this is the EU (or the companies part of it, +Google of course…) barking up the totally wrong tree, on the wrong path, however you want to say it.

In this case, Apple is not at fault for developing the best product, and now stupid Google and others cry to Government Mommy instead of truly competing.

I hope Apple forces them all to foot their legal bills over this *****.

In fact, I hope that Apple decides to pull out of the EU entirely if they have to make that choice after the EU tries to force Apple’s hand on something they should have absolutely no hand in.

Unbelievable. And yet, I believe it given the current state of governments the world round.

The USB-C mandate could be argued, though I didn’t agree there either, I could see their point, however obtusely.

Here though, I’m baffled. Reeks of The Giver, wherein anybody exceptional is a threat to everybody else who is plain or otherwise lazy/malignant. So their solution? Take everything away from everyone, or in this case, give everyone what Apple worked hard for, back when people laughed at Apple and made jokes. While the telecom companies continue to rake in the profits AND offer a crap product, while knowing that they can legalbully their way to their desired outcome.

Who’s laughing now?

Evidently still the wrong people.

Apple is in the right on this one, and I’ll be hoping for the downfall of the EU in its entirety, or for Apple to pull out of the European market in its entirety, if they win an iota of ground on this case if they take it up…

Smh. And I never type that.
 
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Users have many messenger choices they can use on both Android and iOS. iMessage is just one option but nobody forces you to use it over Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Messenger, Element, SMS or any other platform to be honest. Apple as a company has decided not to open up iMessage fully to Android users to keep it as their USP and that makes complete sense. Users are not forced to use it and many don't (especially in Europe even if 2 people have iPhones, I can tell you that).

Google is trying to push their version of RCS so they can collect more user data and basically take one USP from Apple, as simple as that. They don't care about users.
True, I mean I know people that have iPhones and I've asked them to talk to me on iMessage and FaceTime and they've never agreed to. It's always Signal, Telegram, Viber, WhatsApp, Instagram and Snapchat calls. You have to use everything in order to keep up with people.
Nobody uses iMessage though.
 
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SMS is less secure and makes Messages a worse experience for Apple users when communicating with friends and family on Android. Whether they want to use RCS or not, I do think Apple needs to address the issue instead of letting Messages be a subpar product for Apple's customers.
 
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To me, that sounds like the best option.

Though, as someone who lives in the EU, I find it odd that iMessage is seen as such a problem. I've lived in several different countries here and by far the most common messaging service in all of them has been WhatsApp.

Or is there something I missed here?
Not far enough. IOS should be made to run on Android. MacOS must be made to run on PCs. Apple must also create peace between Russia and Ukraine, and Israel and Hamas. Just pass a regulation and make it so EU. Why are still allowing all these technology and military wars when you can just pass some regulations?
 
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SMS is less secure and makes Messages a worse experience for Apple users when communicating with friends and family on Android. Whether they want to use RCS or not, I do think Apple needs to address the issue instead of letting Messages be a subpar product for Apple's customers.

At the moment there's no easy way to resolve that though. Apple did want iMessage and FaceTime as widely-adopted standard but nobody joined so we have 10 competing platforms unfortunately. RCS is an answer, however only in theory. It's not supported by all carriers worldwide and many companies try to push their own implementation - potentially but often likely - compromising security and privacy (looking at you Google).

I would argue that friends and families use many different platforms but rarely utilize plain SMS so it's up for a discussion how much of a problem this is and if the market cannot resolve it on its own.
 
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Nobody in EU has even heard of iMessage.

How does it promote innovation and competition if all messaging apps are forced to support the same set of features (decided by who?) and all other features are presumably made illegal?

What if someone wants to introduce in a new feature?

How do you support iMessage Apps on Android? Windows? Or the new check-in feature on other platforms?

Do we have a thriving and innovative e-mail client market? No we don't, because e-mail feature set is identical for all. There is no way to innovate.

If Apple's Messages app will become compatible with WhatsApp, Telegram and Signal, then I will just delete the rest. What's the point of having them on my phone, or ever even installing them?

In practice this will be really good for Meta - it will be incredibly difficult to persuade anyone install other messaging apps.

Out of all EU's regulatory measures the is by far the dumbest.

I also find it astonishing that so many MR forumites think this is a good idea.

Why do you want the shittification of Apple’s ecosystem? Use Android.
 
I believe Google (maker of Android OS) and the big telcos that use android on their phones want to be able to have interoperability with imessage so users of imessage and android messenger can seamlessly text one another but they cannot because Apple will not allow it. If Android and iphones users want to seamlessly text one another both need to install another text app that works across both platforms.

I believe there are settings that one can change in Android to get it to work properly with imessage but that defeats the whole issue of having both phones OS seamlessly working together.

Users of android phones should not have to mess around with having to install 3rd party apps or make phone setting changes to get it to work with imessage but Apple's refusal to allow both messaging platforms to work together is what is causing the problem.
 
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I certainly look forward to the spam calls and messages - through Google and others. For the last 7 years iMessage=0 spam, and 72 blocked numbers calling and SMS-texting me for "added services".
 
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